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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Slinky on November 28, 2004, at 14:42:26
In reply to Re: Back then anxiety was classified as nuerosis, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 12:51:49
Oh..I'm sorry..I'm severely brain dead ..I saw the title as depression not anxiety..
Blimey : )
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 15:23:40
In reply to Re: Back then anxiety was classified as nuerosis, posted by Slinky on November 28, 2004, at 14:42:26
That's ok, i actually do want to talk about what they used for depression back then.
I think it was just Shock therapy and Dexedrine and Benzedrine.
Posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 15:37:53
In reply to Re: Slinky, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 15:23:40
Amphetamines were widely prescribed for depression before the tricyclics and MAOIs were introduced. It was claimed that the new ADs were 'specific' for the treatment of depression whereas the stimulants were not. My opinion is that none of our current drugs are really 'specific' for depression.
Pills containing combinations of amphetamines and barbiturates were popular eg. Dexamyl- amobarbital+dextroamphetamine.
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on November 28, 2004, at 16:52:02
In reply to Re: The earliest anti-depressants, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 15:37:53
The stimulant sedative combinations would've been particularly addictive. There would probably be a synergy effect of dopamine in the neucleus accumbens.
Linkadge
Posted by denise1904 on November 28, 2004, at 16:54:41
In reply to Re: Back then anxiety was classified as nuerosis, posted by Slinky on November 28, 2004, at 14:42:26
I often think I'm so lucky that I wastn't born in the early 20th century, I don't think I would have lived this long. I dread to think of how much some people must have suffered.
I always hope opium helped people in the early 20th Century, I can't bear to think of people feeling the way I have felt with nothing to give them any release.
Denise
Posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 17:08:53
In reply to Re: The earliest anti-depressants, posted by linkadge on November 28, 2004, at 16:52:02
Have you seen the advert for Dexamyl from the 1960s. It's quite amusing. I found it in the 'American Gallery of Psychiatric Art'.
Ed.
PS. Dexamyl certainly had a high abuse potential!
Posted by paulbwell on November 28, 2004, at 19:13:26
In reply to Re: The earliest anti-depressants, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 17:08:53
> Have you seen the advert for Dexamyl from the 1960s. It's quite amusing. I found it in the 'American Gallery of Psychiatric Art'.
>
> Ed.
>
> PS. Dexamyl certainly had a high abuse potential!Not as high as this one
DESBUTAL=Methamphetamine (Desoxyn)15mgs+ Pentobabital (Numbutal)50mgs combined!
People would seperate these two, and use at different times.-A fav of ELVIS during the 60's
Discontinued due to large 'Non-Medical use' HA!!
These combos were known as 'Goofballs'
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 19:15:20
In reply to Re: The earliest anti-depressants, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 17:08:53
yes they were implified it made her very happy vacumming.
Why would it have abuse potential? the sedative should of numbed the euphoria.
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 19:19:22
In reply to Re: DEXAMYL--DESBUTAL, posted by paulbwell on November 28, 2004, at 19:13:26
when combined with a sedative, that should of pullled back some dopmaine, reducing the euphoria, or leveling the effect, i thought that was the main reason of there creation.
What where they prescribed for anyways?
Posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 19:49:52
In reply to Re: DEXAMYL--DESBUTAL why where they abused?, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 19:19:22
They were certainly euphoric..... people were even happy when they were vacuuming!!!
They were used for depression and obesity amongst other things. The barbiturate was present to reduce anxiety while the stimulant was intended to elevate mood (or decrease appetite). Remember, some people find short-acting barbiturates euphoric on their own!
Ed.
Posted by paulbwell on November 28, 2004, at 19:59:29
In reply to Re: DEXAMYL--DESBUTAL why where they abused?, posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 19:19:22
> when combined with a sedative, that should of pullled back some dopmaine, reducing the euphoria, or leveling the effect, i thought that was the main reason of there creation.
>
> What where they prescribed for anyways?Stim-Barb combos were used extensively during the 1950's-60's for weight loss, depression, fatigue.
The idea was to use the Neuro-stimulating effects of The Amphetamine to do the main job of treating the above ills, and the sedative to prevent-minimise overstimulation.
Following the Controlled Substances Act- of 1970, Amphetamine use dropped 80-90% due to fear being placed into Docs, who prescribed Amphetamines, as all use except, Narcolepsy, Morbid Obesity, and probably sever, treatment-resistant Depression was tolerated.
Goofballs were ceased to be maunfactured around this time too.
Cheers
Posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 20:07:08
In reply to Re: DEXAMYL--DESBUTAL why where they abused?, posted by paulbwell on November 28, 2004, at 19:59:29
Does anyone know of any other stim-barb combinations which were formerly used in medicine?
Ed
Posted by mmcconathy on November 28, 2004, at 20:46:50
In reply to Re: Amphetamine-barbiturates, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 20:07:08
I read an article somewhere, an older one, that a combination of dextroamphetamine and meprobamate was being considered, which was reasonable since Miltown was a blockbuster in late 50's. But it was never marketed, just a consideration. They were explaining testing results with individuels.
This is intresting...
Cheers
Posted by paulbwell on November 28, 2004, at 21:28:59
In reply to Re: Amphetamine-barbiturates, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 20:07:08
> Does anyone know of any other stim-barb combinations which were formerly used in medicine?
>
> Ed
>After Buying all patent rights to Amphetamines in 1932, SKF then released the non-script Speed driven 'Benzedrine' levo-Amphetamine, nasel inhaler. It worked like a charm, and felt good too. It took less than a few minutes for some to break the thing open and suck out the insides. Jack Kerouac was amoung many who broke them open and swished the speed-impregnated paper strip into his Coffee-nice buzz. SKF stopped making this inhaler in 1949.
The next two decades saw Smith-Kline-French put their L and D Amphetamine to endless uses and combined with many other Drugs:
-Eskatrol Dexedrine and Compazine
-Appetrol Dex and Miltown
-Edrisal Benzedrine and Aspirin-1948
-Ambar Methamphetamine and Phenobarbital-not SKF
-Thoradex Thorazine and Dex (no kiding)
-Benzabar Benzadrine and Phenobarbital
-Miltrate Miltown and Pent, Tranqualiser- not SKF
-Miltown and Estrogen -not SKF
-Prozine Miltown and Promazine anxiety-not SKF
-Milpath Miltown and Tridihexethyl iodide-anxiety and ulcer-not SKF
-Deprol Miltown and Benactyzine, depression-not SKF
-Carbrital Pentobarbital and Carbromal-Bromide, sleep-not SKF
-Eskabarb Benzadrine SR SpansualAnd I'm sure there were more.
Cheers
Posted by gromit on November 28, 2004, at 23:20:00
In reply to Re: DEXAMYL--DESBUTAL why where they abused?, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 19:49:52
> They were certainly euphoric..... people were even happy when they were vacuuming!!!
You say that like it's a bad thing. ;) As long as it isn't having negative effects, what would be wrong with that? Almost anything can be abused, people inhale spray paint or canned whip cream. Some people just seem happier and more positive than others. Why is it considered bad if your meds have the same effect?
Rick
Posted by HermanMunster on November 28, 2004, at 23:49:56
In reply to What were the standard anxiety meds in the 1940's?, posted by mmcconathy on November 27, 2004, at 14:57:39
Masturbation.
Posted by ed_uk on November 29, 2004, at 2:08:56
In reply to Re: Amphetamine-barbiturates, posted by paulbwell on November 28, 2004, at 21:28:59
Hi,
One of the authors of my psycho-pharm textbook reports hallucinating on Benzedrine. At the time, he says he had no idea a 'harmless' inhaler could be responsible!
Ed.
Posted by Cecilia on November 29, 2004, at 3:46:16
In reply to Re: Imagine how bad it was back then!, posted by denise1904 on November 28, 2004, at 16:54:41
Back then, now, for a lot of us there`s no difference. I`ve tried probably dozens of different antidepressants and combinations and never found anything that helped. Cecilia
Posted by paulbwell on November 29, 2004, at 3:58:43
In reply to Re: Amphetamine-barbiturates- to paulbwell, posted by ed_uk on November 29, 2004, at 2:08:56
> Hi,
>
> One of the authors of my psycho-pharm textbook reports hallucinating on Benzedrine. At the time, he says he had no idea a 'harmless' inhaler could be responsible!
>
> Ed.Hi ED
Unusual reaction. Perhaps the author liked the inhalers a little to much? and consumed-Inhaled more than 1? for this to happen :)
Posted by linkadge on November 29, 2004, at 11:34:49
In reply to Re: Amphetamine-barbiturates- to ED_UK, posted by paulbwell on November 29, 2004, at 3:58:43
There were a few proposals for stimulant antipyshotic combinations for obesity. Manufacturers argued that the antipsychotic blocked the psychosis produced by the high doses of amphetamine.
I've tried a combination like this. It is probably the most messed up thing you can experience.
You're blocking certain dopamine receptors and over-loading others. I remember trying ritalin and thioridazine and I was staring at a water hydrent for close to 8 hours. It was really funny the way it popped out of the ground like that.
I felt like I was on another planet.
Linkadge
Posted by paulbwell on November 29, 2004, at 12:57:02
In reply to Re: Amphetamine-barbiturates- to ED_UK, posted by linkadge on November 29, 2004, at 11:34:49
> There were a few proposals for stimulant antipyshotic combinations for obesity. Manufacturers argued that the antipsychotic blocked the psychosis produced by the high doses of amphetamine.
>
> I've tried a combination like this. It is probably the most messed up thing you can experience.
>
> You're blocking certain dopamine receptors and over-loading others. I remember trying ritalin and thioridazine and I was staring at a water hydrent for close to 8 hours. It was really funny the way it popped out of the ground like that.
> I felt like I was on another planet.
>
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>Hi Link,
8 hours? time for Med change for Link.;)
Cheers
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 29, 2004, at 21:40:15
In reply to Re: What were the standard anxiety meds in the 1940's?, posted by HermanMunster on November 28, 2004, at 23:49:56
> Masturbation.
Please be supportive.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by I used to be Skinny on February 1, 2011, at 18:31:34
In reply to Re: DEXAMYL--DESBUTAL why where they abused?, posted by ed_uk on November 28, 2004, at 19:49:52
Back in the day I took Desbutal. I loved it. It was given to me by my doctor in 1964 after the birth of my 2nd child because I was 15 lbs overweight. After I found how much energy they gave me I was hooked. I also lost a lot of weight. (one week I lost 12 lbs!)When they were taken off the market I was devastated. I tried other diet pills, such as the black beauties, but none were as good. Eventually I stopped taking any. I now could stand to lose almost 100 lbs, and I wish they were still available. Today on the internet I found out the main ingredient was Methamphetamine. Wow! I was a meth-head before meth was even in. (Just kidding)
Posted by utopizen on February 6, 2011, at 17:21:44
In reply to Re: DEXAMYL--DESBUTAL why where they abused?, posted by I used to be Skinny on February 1, 2011, at 18:31:34
Most people who take even hard illicit drugs don't become addicts. Those who abuse a drug typically seek it for its rewarding properties; by increasing dopamine and the barbiturate chilling you out, that's rewarding.
Some will feel any drug's reward and want more and more. Others have an expectation the drug is not suppose to be a substitute for sleep, proper nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. Expectation of the drug and what it ought to do is a major component of abuse research.
Example: If students think Adderall will write their paper for them, they're going to be more inclined to up their dose when to their amazement they still find a subject that bores them too boring to complete.
Other students, typically on ADD meds since they were young, will have lower expectations and understand the drug is not going to make every boring thing fascinating enough to endure.
Methamphetamine HCL (Desoxyn) is still sold today because it is safe under a doctor's supervision and when taken as prescribed. Lots of medicines are methylated; methamphetamine is just Amphetamine methylated.
Rx Desoxyn also is less likely to include battery acid as a filler, despite how filled with great character meth dealers tend to be... that, and the dose is tiny-- not enough to induce euphoria.
Any medicine is going to screw someone up if it's not given properly, it contraindicates with something else, and if it's not taken as prescribed. It's an effective, yet powerful medicine, and when respected it can effectively treat AD/HD.
But anyone thinking it's going to solve all of your AD/HD problems unlike any other ADD med is a good reason not to take it, because it's a sign of unrealistic expectations.
Also: the weight thing tends to be something that lasts about 6-8 weeks; after that, the body's pretty resillient to gimmicks and will adjust your appetite back to where it was.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Desbutal dose you were given was much, much higher than is considered acceptable for Desoxyn today. In the 60's, diet pills were a huge market, "fat clinic" M.D.'s tended to associate high doses with better results. To help pay off their weight scale investment and all, they tended to give doses higher to get past the 6-8 week barrier.
It didn't help that at the time, they could make arrangements to sell it directly via a pharmacy they partnered with for profits, since higher doses meant more pill sales.
Also, drug addicts have been studied to be incapable at telling the differences between one amphetamine and the next, including meth + non-methylated amphetamine. But because "meth" is easier to say and sounds trendier, the DEA will refer to amphetamine finds as "meth busts." The DEA also explains elsewhere on their site that over 60% of "meth" on the black market is estimated to be in fact methamphetamine or even Ectasy-- the rest is typically regular amphetamine sold as meth or MDMA.
Amphetamines are abusable; don't get me wrong-- but why the news media + DEA (with the DEA driving the narrative) use marketing names to make drug "epidemics" more inviting and curious puzzles me.
No one markets drugs better than the DEA.
In Holland, drugs are boring; in America, drugs are always "trendy," "on the rise," "new," (meth is not new, and was patented in 1943...) "shocking," "an epidemic," "popular," "dangerous," "worrying parents," "illicit," "gets an intense high," "potent," "deadly," "banned," "illegal," "risky," and anything else a drug cartel's focus groups found helped sell more of the stuff.
And then they go, "see? It's climbing up ever since we began reporting it." Um, yeah, that's the problem...
Posted by utopizen on February 6, 2011, at 17:29:28
In reply to Re: Amphetamine-barbiturates- to ED_UK, posted by paulbwell on November 29, 2004, at 3:58:43
> > Hi,
> >
> > One of the authors of my psycho-pharm textbook reports hallucinating on Benzedrine. At the time, he says he had no idea a 'harmless' inhaler could be responsible!
> >
> > Ed.
>
> Hi ED
>
> Unusual reaction. Perhaps the author liked the inhalers a little to much? and consumed-Inhaled more than 1? for this to happen :)
Different people get amphetamine psychosis at different doses... it could be a low dose or a high dose. The inhaler also was, well, inhaled-- making the onset of action much faster.Keurac would dip the inhaler strip in his coffee, a common means to abuse it... anyhow, there was a study on benzedrine in the 1950's...
it upped benzedrine tablet doses every hour for a 24-hour period until the person demonstrated amphetamine psychosis. Some got it at very low doses; others got it at 400 mg (think 200mg of Dexedrine). But the conclusion was this: anyone is going to get psychotic at some dose threshold, and that threshold widely varies.
tim
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