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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 72. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2010, at 21:21:50
So I finally got my package of stablon. I've taken the day's dosage already. I just came off lamictal so I'm looking forward to trying something different and less mind numbing.
I'm still on remeron, I wonder if there could be a synergistic effect, since remeron is a serotonergic antagonist, and tianeptine is an indirect antagonist.
Posted by twinleaf on October 29, 2010, at 21:27:40
In reply to starting stablon, posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2010, at 21:21:50
If you are like me, you won't notice too much at first, other than a moderate calming effect. But after you have taken it for a few months, you may be able to look back and see that it has had a definite antidepressant effect. Not a very strong one, but definite.
Good luck!
Posted by hyperfocus on October 29, 2010, at 21:43:42
In reply to Re: starting stablon » Conundrum, posted by twinleaf on October 29, 2010, at 21:27:40
Yeah the majority of opinions on Stablon are like twinleaf's - it produces a noticeable definite antidepressant and antianxiety effect, but it's 'mild' to 'moderate' only. Maybe it's suitable for non-refractory type depressions. I also found it seemed to make me very apathetic.
Posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2010, at 21:53:36
In reply to Re: starting stablon, posted by hyperfocus on October 29, 2010, at 21:43:42
Apathy is one of the core symptoms I'm trying to avoid. Lol go figure. Did SSRIs make you apathetic as well?
I was hoping to notice something in a couple of weeks, since it is not cheap.
Posted by hyperfocus on October 29, 2010, at 22:50:26
In reply to Re: starting stablon » hyperfocus, posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2010, at 21:53:36
I can't say I noticed if SSRIs made me apathetic or not - they just plain didn't work on my depression and anxiety. But I did take Stablon in combination with other stuff - TCAs and APs and Wellbutrin and stuff - so maybe the apathy was a result of some combination with them. Just watch out for it; apathy can just sneak up on you. Stablon's onset of action can be noticed fairly rapidly though so it may not take weeks. It's definitely worth a shot. Good luck and best wishes to you.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 30, 2010, at 2:24:51
In reply to Re: starting stablon » Conundrum, posted by hyperfocus on October 29, 2010, at 22:50:26
I've ordered some Stablon as well, which should arrive next week. Let me know how you go. I too was hoping I could see a rapid onset of effect.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 30, 2010, at 2:25:39
In reply to Re: starting stablon » Conundrum, posted by hyperfocus on October 29, 2010, at 22:50:26
Posted by orbital on October 30, 2010, at 17:24:47
In reply to starting stablon, posted by Conundrum on October 29, 2010, at 21:21:50
I had a good long run with tianeptine. The anti-anxiety effect kicked in within a couple of weeks, the AD effect took longer (but it did build steadily and noticeably). After a few months, I was eventually able to cut back to 2x(12.5mg)/day.
Good luck :)
> So I finally got my package of stablon. I've taken the day's dosage already. I just came off lamictal so I'm looking forward to trying something different and less mind numbing.
>
> I'm still on remeron, I wonder if there could be a synergistic effect, since remeron is a serotonergic antagonist, and tianeptine is an indirect antagonist.
Posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 2:33:50
In reply to Re: woops, above meant for conundrum (nm), posted by g_g_g_unit on October 30, 2010, at 2:25:39
The first time I took Stablon I noticed an anxiolytic effect for the first day or two, followed by a stimulant effect (as if I was full of adrenaline all day) and headache. On day 12 I felt my mood begin to lift and gradually the jitters disappeared and I felt great.
The antidepressant effect pooped out in the long term, so I had to increase the dose. I took it for five years and quit in April but feel worse now so I think Stablon did work.
It definitely helped my anxiety moreso than depression, but also caused some apathy, sudden sleepiness and lowered libido.
I didn't realize it was lowering my libido until I quit it.. then my libido came back about twice as strong as it was before.
I don't care about my libido though. I'd rather be in a good mood and have a low libido than be depressed and anxious with an intact sex drive.
Posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 2:38:04
In reply to onset of Stablon, posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 2:33:50
I forgot to mention that I began to develop intrusive thoughts about gambling and felt a bit hypersexual (in thoughts only, although my libido was decreased) after being on Stablon for the long term.
Thoughts of gambling and hypersexuality vanished not long after I quit Stablon.
It is strange to have lots of thoughts about sex, but yet also have a low libido.
I read that it targets the D2 and D3 dopamine receptors in addition to increasing dopamine in the nucleus accumbens. Mirapex (pramipexole) does this too, so it makes sense.
Posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 2:45:56
In reply to Re: onset of Stablon, posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 2:38:04
Obviously these side effects won't occur in the majority of users of Stablon. I forgot to mention that I think it caused some orthostatic hypotension because when I exercised I felt faint when I stopped walking. This happened on more than one occasion whereas it never happened prior to taking Stablon.
It also caused my lower right leg to swell up, just above the ankles if I sat at my computer for more than 2 hours without moving. Elevating my leg for 15 minutes or lying flat on the bed or couch would solve that though.
Now that I don't take Stablon I can sit at my computer for hours and my right leg doesn't swell up.
I don't know if that was serious or not, but dopamine agonists can cause edema such as that. Stablon is not a dopamine agonist, but it definitely gives dopamine a mild boost (or more).
Posted by ggggg123 on November 4, 2010, at 7:43:41
In reply to more side effects of Stablon I forgot to list, posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 2:45:56
Alot of the side effects people experience on meds are placebo effect, I'm not saying yours are but looking into every little thing, sounds more like anxiety or hypersensitivity, when I take a med, I learn to forget I'm taking anything, I notice far fewer side effects that way.
Posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 14:55:18
In reply to Re: more side effects of Stablon I forgot to list, posted by ggggg123 on November 4, 2010, at 7:43:41
I should give Stablon another try as my depression and anxiety are quite severe these days. I don't feel the side effects were dangerous.. perhaps, if they were all true side effects, they were just minor annoyances that one can live with. I suppose the fainting feeling after exercise could have just been me being so out of shape as I hadn't exercised in 7 years prior to that.
I wish the price was cheaper (or that there was a generic).
Definitely Stablon has very few side effects and they are mostly benign when compared to other antidepressants on the market.
Posted by Conundrum on November 4, 2010, at 15:39:26
In reply to Re: more side effects of Stablon I forgot to list, posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 14:55:18
I feell really spacey after being on it for about 5 or 6 days. A little of the numb feeling. If this drug causes apathy than its not a good drug for me. Thats my main problem. I could use a little adrenergic anxiety. I was hoping the med would be more pro dopaminergic, but the effects FEEL very serotonergic, similar to lexapro. Less sexual dysfunction, but still weird spacey feelings.
> I should give Stablon another try as my depression and anxiety are quite severe these days. I don't feel the side effects were dangerous.. perhaps, if they were all true side effects, they were just minor annoyances that one can live with. I suppose the fainting feeling after exercise could have just been me being so out of shape as I hadn't exercised in 7 years prior to that.
>
> I wish the price was cheaper (or that there was a generic).
>
> Definitely Stablon has very few side effects and they are mostly benign when compared to other antidepressants on the market.
Posted by Brainbeard on November 4, 2010, at 16:42:48
In reply to Re: onset of Stablon, posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 2:38:04
> It is strange to have lots of thoughts about sex, but yet also have a low libido.
Yet, this is exactly what (S)SRI's do to me.
Posted by Conundrum on November 4, 2010, at 21:37:59
In reply to onset of Stablon, posted by sukarno on November 4, 2010, at 1:33:50
So today I woke up and felt very spacey and weird. I have been taking 60mg remeron for a few days. Prior to that I was on 30 mgs. I had been on 45mg in the past. I didn't notice any spacey feelings starting on 30 mg or when i went up to 45mg.
I tend to think the spacey feeling is coming from the stablon. I also noticed the sort of numb body feeling. I would imagine that would feel nice to someone, who does not have anhedonia. Today I just took two stablon pills.
I suck at the scientific method. I increased two drugs at once, assuming that increasing remeron would probably not do anything. Maybe I should go back to 30 mg remeron before I get even more confused.
When I first started remeron it kicked in about 10 days later and increased my focus and concentration, so it was a very different feeling than what I am experiencing now, but I'm wondering if the histamine effect could be coming into play at 60 mg. I would think it would have less effect there. Oh well.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on November 5, 2010, at 2:36:59
In reply to Yet, posted by Brainbeard on November 4, 2010, at 16:42:48
>It is strange to have lots of thoughts about sex, but yet also have a low libido.
It's that 'ideation' again.
Posted by Brainbeard on November 5, 2010, at 14:13:52
In reply to Re: Yet » Brainbeard, posted by ed_uk2010 on November 5, 2010, at 2:36:59
> It's that 'ideation' again.
Exactly! Increased mental libido, decreased physical libido. Can be rather frustrating..
Posted by Conundrum on November 5, 2010, at 14:49:39
In reply to Re: Yet » Brainbeard, posted by ed_uk2010 on November 5, 2010, at 2:36:59
> >It is strange to have lots of thoughts about sex, but yet also have a low libido.
>
> It's that 'ideation' again.
>
>
>It seems like tianeptine makes me not think about or want sex, but doesn't cause the physical numbing lexapro would.
Posted by Conundrum on November 6, 2010, at 12:29:59
In reply to Re: starting stablon » Conundrum, posted by orbital on October 30, 2010, at 17:24:47
I've noticed I'm feeling less spacey now. The day before I felt really spacey I think I took 4 pills by accident, also the drug has reached a steady state by now and perhaps my body is adjusting.
Still waiting for an AD effect. So for GGG unit and anyone else who is about to try tianeptine, if you feel spacey wait it out for a week or two.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on November 8, 2010, at 2:22:23
In reply to Re: Stablon update, posted by Conundrum on November 6, 2010, at 12:29:59
> Still waiting for an AD effect. So for GGG unit and anyone else who is about to try tianeptine, if you feel spacey wait it out for a week or two.sounds good. does it have any effect (+ or -) on your energy levels?
Posted by Conundrum on November 8, 2010, at 9:36:39
In reply to Re: Stablon update » Conundrum, posted by g_g_g_unit on November 8, 2010, at 2:22:23
>
> > Still waiting for an AD effect. So for GGG unit and anyone else who is about to try tianeptine, if you feel spacey wait it out for a week or two.
>
> sounds good. does it have any effect (+ or -) on your energy levels?
>
>Unfortunately it has a negative effect, but it seems to be diminishing. I was hoping for something with a positivie effect. I wonder if by increasing serotonin reuptake, it also increases the production of melatonin during the day?
Posted by sukarno on November 8, 2010, at 12:03:16
In reply to Re: Stablon update, posted by Conundrum on November 8, 2010, at 9:36:39
> >
> > > Still waiting for an AD effect. So for GGG unit and anyone else who is about to try tianeptine, if you feel spacey wait it out for a week or two.
> >
> > sounds good. does it have any effect (+ or -) on your energy levels?
> >
> >
>
> Unfortunately it has a negative effect, but it seems to be diminishing. I was hoping for something with a positivie effect. I wonder if by increasing serotonin reuptake, it also increases the production of melatonin during the day?
>
>That's a good point. I wonder if it increases melatonin production too. I started Stablon two days ago and felt sleepy despite quitting Valium (I was taking 5 to 10mg Valium as needed in addition to 1mg Xanax 4x/day). I slept for 12 hours but it was such a comfortable type of sleep and I had vivid dreams, but no nightmares.
I'm taking one-half tablet 3 times a day to minimize the activating effects. The last time I started Stablon in 2005 it took 12 days for the antidepressant effect to be noticed and I was a bit wired during those 12 days.
This time I feel some stimulation but it is mild and some transient headaches. I'm glad to have some side effects because hopefully it means it will be working soon.
It does make me drowsy but in a different way. I just feel like so much burden is being lifted from my brain.. stress is decreasing.. I just want to lie down and sleep. Maybe I'm just exhausted and can finally rest after all that stress and depression that was killing me for the past 4 months.
I wonder too if low doses act differently than the higher doses.
I seem to remember having insomnia when I started out with the recommended 12.5mg 3x/day and when increasing the dose.
Keep us updated.
Posted by Conundrum on November 8, 2010, at 12:27:53
In reply to Re: Stablon update » Conundrum, posted by sukarno on November 8, 2010, at 12:03:16
One thing I just noticed, is that the drug has a much stronger effect taken on an empty stomach. Thanks for posting it took 12 days for the AD effect to kick in. I'm getting kind of skeptical, since I have been able to feel the anti anxiety effects, but not mood lifting effects.
> > >
> > > > Still waiting for an AD effect. So for GGG unit and anyone else who is about to try tianeptine, if you feel spacey wait it out for a week or two.
> > >
> > > sounds good. does it have any effect (+ or -) on your energy levels?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Unfortunately it has a negative effect, but it seems to be diminishing. I was hoping for something with a positivie effect. I wonder if by increasing serotonin reuptake, it also increases the production of melatonin during the day?
> >
> >
>
> That's a good point. I wonder if it increases melatonin production too. I started Stablon two days ago and felt sleepy despite quitting Valium (I was taking 5 to 10mg Valium as needed in addition to 1mg Xanax 4x/day). I slept for 12 hours but it was such a comfortable type of sleep and I had vivid dreams, but no nightmares.
>
> I'm taking one-half tablet 3 times a day to minimize the activating effects. The last time I started Stablon in 2005 it took 12 days for the antidepressant effect to be noticed and I was a bit wired during those 12 days.
>
> This time I feel some stimulation but it is mild and some transient headaches. I'm glad to have some side effects because hopefully it means it will be working soon.
>
> It does make me drowsy but in a different way. I just feel like so much burden is being lifted from my brain.. stress is decreasing.. I just want to lie down and sleep. Maybe I'm just exhausted and can finally rest after all that stress and depression that was killing me for the past 4 months.
>
> I wonder too if low doses act differently than the higher doses.
>
> I seem to remember having insomnia when I started out with the recommended 12.5mg 3x/day and when increasing the dose.
>
> Keep us updated.
Posted by sukarno on November 8, 2010, at 12:43:23
In reply to Re: Stablon update, posted by Conundrum on November 8, 2010, at 12:27:53
Officially it is recommended to take it at the beginning of the main meals of the day. I noticed that it works better too if taken on an empty stomach.
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