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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 22, 2010, at 1:54:34
In reply to Re: intellegence vs. motivation » g_g_g_unit, posted by Jay_Clockwork_Angels on October 21, 2010, at 17:38:57
I think it's an interesting and somewhat controversial point you bring up, and I agree with both you and linkadge.
I've found that a lot of psychiatric treatment revolves around semantics, and it's necessary for the patient to edit and/or emphasize certain symptoms/experiences over others in order to gain the most appropriate treatment at times. Like Jay says, it's a matter of survival, and confronting a psychiatrist is always in some ways a 'performance'.
Sometimes psychiatrists have stated that I present too well given the amount of distress I've described. Sometimes, I can't open up to a psychiatrist due to their awful bedside manner and they don't receive a complete picture of my symptoms. Sometimes they'll blindly challenge me on whether I'm actually suffering from symptoms I describe. Sometimes I didn't know that certain things (impulse issues, etc.) were actually psychiatric symptoms, which led to my ADHD going completely unrecognized for so long.
If I walked into a psychiatrist's office and just spewed out what an anxious mess I was, I'd be placed on something like an AP everytime, no questions asked. As I get a clearer picture of my problems, I've learned to pare my story down to the bare essentials and construct a clear narrative of my life.
I'm still learning of course - one recent slight I made was telling my psychologist that when I first became depressed, it felt like negative schizophrenia, which led to this whole recent schizo debacle. As I say, it's very much an issue of semantics because amotivation and cognitive problems could apply to a range of things.
> > Yeah, I never told her they increased my intelligence. I said they correct my difficulties processing information + my own thoughts, which I guess allows me to capitalize on my intelligence.
> >
>
> Well, I think it would be much, much better if you simply said that the med helps with the slow cognition (or 'dullness' or 'cloudiness') of whatever mental illness you are suffering with. With me, I've finely tuned the art of re-scripting words and language to make it tie into my *pain* as much as possible. EVEN if you don't have pain, put on the show, because it does and will persuade doctors. I know this doesn't sound very authentic, but I have become a very good actor to know what/and/or/how I have to do/say to get whatever (well, within reason) I need. It has taken me almost 20 years to do so. If it means bringing in 30 pages of medical literature supporting my use of something, or just simply mumbling in a tense voice that I am having a very bad dysphoric manic spell, it is mostly preconstructed and carefully thought out. This is the only way I have survived, and have gotten healthier.
>
> Jay
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 22, 2010, at 2:14:56
In reply to Re: intellegence vs. motivation » g_g_g_unit, posted by Maxime on October 21, 2010, at 11:16:22
> I like how you put that. That's how I feel about the Adderall I take.Well, it's a bizarre situation because I get so used to being told that what I'm experiencing is anxiety or a crisis of confidence, despite having lived the first 22 years of my life as a highly intelligent person. For the past 3 years, I'd become convinced that I'd just dreamed that life, or that maybe I was always like this and just privately exaggerating my abilities. The first time I tried dex, it was like a light switch going off: I remembered who I was.
Posted by Brainbeard on October 23, 2010, at 17:56:21
In reply to Re: intellegence vs. motivation » Maxime, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 22, 2010, at 2:14:56
Dex has given me moments of refinding deeply buried enthusiasm in a collision of intellectual endeavour and passionate emotions.
It's funny that whereas methylphenidate (MPH - Concerta, Ritalin) seems to kill any religious sensitivity, Dex seems to increase it.
I have told my p-doc how I got some Dex from a friend overseas and tried it, to find that it not only gives me focus and motivation, but also helps me to stand above my OCD, tinnitus, little pains and fears. He reacted by saying that dex would sure be an option in his treatment. Not wanting you to eat your heart out, g_g_g.. He may still crawl back, and he wants me stabilized on the friggin' clomipramine first anyway. Plus I have been as stupid as suggesting Abilify myself pver Dex.. I hope to correct that tragic failure next time I see him.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 24, 2010, at 8:04:33
In reply to They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster, posted by Brainbeard on October 23, 2010, at 17:56:21
> Dex has given me moments of refinding deeply buried enthusiasm in a collision of intellectual endeavour and passionate emotions.
>
> It's funny that whereas methylphenidate (MPH - Concerta, Ritalin) seems to kill any religious sensitivity, Dex seems to increase it.
>
> I have told my p-doc how I got some Dex from a friend overseas and tried it, to find that it not only gives me focus and motivation, but also helps me to stand above my OCD, tinnitus, little pains and fears. He reacted by saying that dex would sure be an option in his treatment. Not wanting you to eat your heart out, g_g_g.. He may still crawl back, and he wants me stabilized on the friggin' clomipramine first anyway. Plus I have been as stupid as suggesting Abilify myself pver Dex.. I hope to correct that tragic failure next time I see him.Well, don't sweat about eating hearts out and whatnot. My GP has referred me to a new psychiatrist who deals with ADD comorbid with anxiety issues, and supposedly has no qualms about stimulant therapy.
So you've had a change of heart on Abilify? As much as my psychologist tries to convince me otherwise, I somehow doubt it would be very effective for concentration issues outside of psychosis/bipolar. What's more, I'm specifically concerned about improving the *quality* of my concentration, which I find Dexedrine addresses.
Yeah, Ritalin felt quite abrasive to me. Dexedrine feels a lot more 'natural'. Both make me feel introverted and a little anhedonic, though that might be an ADD thing, since I'm naturally too impulsive for my own good.
I wish clomipramine would work for me, but it just doesn't seem to be doing much of anything for my anxiety, and the movement sfx won't go away. I've started tapering off. .
Posted by linkadge on October 24, 2010, at 12:51:59
In reply to They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster, posted by Brainbeard on October 23, 2010, at 17:56:21
Thats funny that you said dexidrine has enhanced religious sensitivity.
I feel the same way. Ritalin seems to act more like a mood stabilizer for me. Amphetamine has be "believing" in things. Mind you, amphetamine really distorts my thinking (psychotic sometimes) wherase ritalin almost seems to be an AP for me.
Linkadge
Posted by maxime on October 24, 2010, at 14:36:05
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster » Brainbeard, posted by linkadge on October 24, 2010, at 12:51:59
I find that Adderall is helping my mood as well. It calms me, and it allows me to focus better. Without the Adderall my thoughts are all over the place.
Ritalin was the worse med for me because it would wear off suddenly and I would become a monster.
Dexedrine was okay but because I had to take it twice a day I started abusing is.
Adderall XR is one dosage in the morning and I don't even think about having it in myself. I don't feel like abusing it because it doesn't make me feel "zippy" the way the Dex did.
Thank goodness we have so many different ones to try!
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 24, 2010, at 20:42:56
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster » Brainbeard, posted by linkadge on October 24, 2010, at 12:51:59
Mind you, amphetamine really distorts my thinking (psychotic sometimes) wherase ritalin almost seems to be an AP for me.
>
> LinkadgeSorry if this is a dumb (almost to the point of ironic) question, but what does psychotic thinking on stims look like?
Posted by Brainbeard on October 25, 2010, at 7:24:42
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster » Brainbeard, posted by linkadge on October 24, 2010, at 12:51:59
> Thats funny that you said dexidrine has enhanced religious sensitivity.
>Another thing, which, I think, I haven't mentioned here before, is that Ritalin/Concerta triggers homosexual ideation in me. Very peculiar. I am not gay, and it's not something I am particularly happy about.
Posted by Brainbeard on October 25, 2010, at 7:26:41
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster, posted by Brainbeard on October 25, 2010, at 7:24:42
> Another thing, which, I think, I haven't mentioned here before, is that Ritalin/Concerta triggers homosexual ideation in me. Very peculiar. I am not gay, and it's not something I am particularly happy about.To clarify further: of course I have homosexual tendencies to begin with, it's just that they're being triggered by methylphenidate. Smoking pot triggers them
likewise, and I find the methylphenidate rush akin to the marijuana high.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on October 25, 2010, at 13:57:48
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster, posted by Brainbeard on October 25, 2010, at 7:24:42
>Ritalin/Concerta triggers homosexual ideation in me.
'Homosexual ideation' hahaha. I suppose that's one way of putting it. Very clinical. It reminds me of the drama surrounding Prozac triggering suicidal ideation.
Posted by Brainbeard on October 25, 2010, at 14:38:13
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster » Brainbeard, posted by ed_uk2010 on October 25, 2010, at 13:57:48
> 'Homosexual ideation' hahaha. I suppose that's one way of putting it. Very clinical. It reminds me of the drama surrounding Prozac triggering suicidal ideation.
>I was thinking about putting 'ideation' between brackets, but thought that would spoil the humour.
Posted by sukarno on October 27, 2010, at 19:35:28
In reply to psychiatry is a joked dreamed up by Kafka +Abilify, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 21, 2010, at 2:52:11
> So I've been seeing this GP who strongly advocates ADD recognition, and who I advised that I experiment with the left-over dexedrine I had over this past week.
>
> "Awakening" wouldn't really be too strong a word to describe my experience (as with all stimulants) - I rapidly transform from a motivationless, foggy, intellectually wanting patient into a bright, dynamic, high-functioning individual. I've struggled to finish a single book over the past year and a half, yet am able to bound through and process information on stimulants to a degree I've never experienced before. Despite being academically gifted, I've never been able to read for longer than 45 minutes at a time, but can read for two hours+ with ease on stimulants.
>
> So I tell my psychiatrist this today, and her response is that "stimulants improve everyone's intelligence .. that's why they're abused in America". She then writes me a script for abilify and says that that should help fix my concentration problems.
>
> I smiled, nodded politely and left, and then came home and felt like putting my fist through the wall.
>
> Is that an extreme reaction? It seems like every step I take forwards, I'm being forced back three. Every door I open leads to a brick wall.
>
> Do I try the abilify? I'm wound up and unable to sleep on the clomipramine, so is it just gonna make things worse? I don't wanna take it out of spite, but I know that's an immature stance.
>
> I'm seeing the ADD guy again tomorrow because he's looking at arranging a referral treatment for me. I think that if the next psychiatrist I meet doesn't wanna listen to me, then I give up. After 8+ psychiatrists, I have not met a single one who offers me more than lip service, who seems to care about the wellbeing of me as a person, who will listen, pay attention, or exhibit anything resembling a soul.
>
>
>
>If you live in or near Atlanta (or are willing to travel that far), Dr. Darvin Hege, M.D. is a psychiatrist who prescribes Ritalin, Vyvanse and other stimulants for ADD. He considers himself to be an ADD specialist (or certainly gives that impression as his website has an "adult ADD" questionnaire consisting of several questions). I failed all the questions, but I have panic disorder and heart palpitations so I think stimulants are contraindicated for me. Even caffeine, a weak stimulant by comparison, sends my heart out of rhythm sometimes.
Posted by sukarno on October 27, 2010, at 19:38:19
In reply to Re: psychiatry is a joked dreamed up by Kafka +Abilify » g_g_g_unit, posted by sukarno on October 27, 2010, at 19:35:28
Dr. Darvin Hege, M.D.
2150-P Peachford Road
Atlanta, GA 30338, United States
(770) 458-0007
Posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2010, at 20:42:32
In reply to Re: psychiatry is a joked dreamed up by Kafka +Abilify » sukarno, posted by sukarno on October 27, 2010, at 19:38:19
Was thinking about you yesterday. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on October 28, 2010, at 13:21:51
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster » linkadge, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 24, 2010, at 20:42:56
>Sorry if this is a dumb (almost to the point of >ironic) question, but what does psychotic >thinking on stims look like?
Strange fears and thinking that doesn't make sense. First I think something illogical, like perhaps "I'm dead right now", in the early stages I just shrug the thought off. Later, the thought starts to twist itself and becomes something that I can't think my way out of.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on October 28, 2010, at 13:31:19
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster, posted by Brainbeard on October 25, 2010, at 7:24:42
>Another thing, which, I think, I haven't >mentioned here before, is that Ritalin/Concerta >triggers homosexual ideation in me. Very >peculiar. I am not gay, and it's not something I >am particularly happy about.
Thats interesting. What is "gay" thought? I personally think every brain is capable of sexual feelings towards both genders and that shifts in biochemical function can change ones preference. I have given up on rejecting my shifting feelings and just go with the flow.
I'm not trying to suggest how you should feel, rather I am just sharing that I do have similar experiences with psychotopics changing what I am attracted to.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk2010 on October 28, 2010, at 14:10:13
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster » Brainbeard, posted by linkadge on October 28, 2010, at 13:31:19
>I am just sharing that I do have similar experiences with psychotopics changing what I am attracted to.
That's interesting. Can you give an example? Sorry if too personal. I've familiar with meds decreasing desire, but not changing the focus of attraction.
Posted by Brainbeard on October 28, 2010, at 15:00:05
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster » Brainbeard, posted by linkadge on October 28, 2010, at 13:31:19
> > I am not gay, and it's not something I am particularly happy about.
>
> Thats interesting. What is "gay" thought? I personally think every brain is capable of sexual feelings towards both genders and that shifts in biochemical function can change ones preference. I have given up on rejecting my shifting feelings and just go with the flow.
I agree with the idea of a sexual spectrum, with hetero- and homosexuality at the extremes which as absolutes are rare in real life. 'I am not gay' may have been a bit of a poor statement, expressing nonetheless a decision of not wanting to ground my sexual identity in attraction to the same sex. I value decision, for which the Greek-derived 'crisis' is a synonym, highly.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on October 28, 2010, at 15:14:54
In reply to TheyStoleMyTesticlesAndPutThemInTheMicrowave, posted by Brainbeard on October 28, 2010, at 15:00:05
>'I am not gay' may have been a bit of a poor statement, expressing nonetheless a decision of not wanting to ground my sexual identity in attraction to the same sex.
And perhaps you wanted to say 'I do not subscribe to conventional gay culture'?
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 30, 2010, at 2:23:52
In reply to Re: They Stole My Brain And Put It In A Toaster, posted by linkadge on October 28, 2010, at 13:21:51
> Strange fears and thinking that doesn't make sense. First I think something illogical, like perhaps "I'm dead right now", in the early stages I just shrug the thought off. Later, the thought starts to twist itself and becomes something that I can't think my way out of.
>So the thoughts occur as absolutes rather than arising from doubt/uncertainty? I'm just curious because I get strange thoughts via my OCD along the lines you describe, e.g. "How do I know I'm a real person?", but they arise more as ego dystonic questions which trap me in rumination, rather than actual beliefs. I'm just curious about what I should look out for as danger signs on stims.
Posted by Brainbeard on October 30, 2010, at 7:34:53
In reply to Re: stim psychosis » linkadge, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 30, 2010, at 2:23:52
> I'm just curious about what I should look out for as danger signs on stims.
>Not to answer the question in Linkadge's place, far from it, but when I was on selegiline without an SRI to counter the obsessive-compulsive side-effects, I got a disastruous mix of OCD and drive.
At one point, I was terrified of coming in our shed because of the *possibility* that asbestos material had ever been stacked
there.And I got on the verge of ringing the doorbell at our backyard neighbours because I thought they may *perhaps* have asbestos plates lying on the roof of their shed and *perhaps* they we're gonna saw in that material.
While on selegiline, I saw asbestos everywhere.Dextroamphetamine can paradoxically help me to endure stuff that would otherwise make me depressed as hell or scare the sh*t out of me. But that's only when I can concentrate on a task that I like at least a little bit. I had to take care of a hyperactive foster brother once, taking him to a playground. I hated it and felt unable to entertain him. He started banging with a stick on a large kind of xylophone built into a playhouse. I was terrified of having my hearing damaged. Dex only made it worse for me in that situation.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 30, 2010, at 22:31:27
In reply to Re: stim psychosis, posted by Brainbeard on October 30, 2010, at 7:34:53
> Dextroamphetamine can paradoxically help me to endure stuff that would otherwise make me depressed as hell or scare the sh*t out of me. But that's only when I can concentrate on a task that I like at least a little bit. I had to take care of a hyperactive foster brother once, taking him to a playground. I hated it and felt unable to entertain him. He started banging with a stick on a large kind of xylophone built into a playhouse. I was terrified of having my hearing damaged. Dex only made it worse for me in that situation.Yeah, as much as Dex amplifies the positive, I'm sure it will jack up the negative. I know that if I'm feeling angry, or caught in depression-related ruminations, Dex will turn me into a snappy jerk of a son/sibling. That's why my doctor's so emphatic that people retune their internal/external environment before he's willing to place them on stimulants.
You aren't a fan of CBT, are you Brainbeard? Have you ever tried it? I've dipped my feet in over the years, and have picked up some techniques, though would like to commit to it properly at some point . I found that Dex helped me regulate my attention to the point where CBT became a lot easier to implement. If I wasn't careful, and let my mind drift towards my obsessions, I'd get caught up in them, so I had to practice a degree of self-awareness. I'd imagine Dex would be a good tool in combination with therapy.
Posted by Brainbeard on October 31, 2010, at 14:08:12
In reply to Re: stim psychosis » Brainbeard, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 30, 2010, at 22:31:27
> You aren't a fan of CBT, are you Brainbeard? Have you ever tried it?Oh sure. While on Paxil, I had two years' training of CBT and exposure therapy, and was nearly OCD-free at that point. Then I quit Paxil, became depressed as hell, and eventually resorted to good ol' OCD again.
Recently I've had daytime therapy for three months based on CBT and exposure as well. This time, my fears seemed impossible to catch in a CBT scheme.
It's just so damn hard to change a brain. I'm still hoping for a therapeutic biochemical lobotomy..
Posted by Brainbeard on November 1, 2010, at 6:56:29
In reply to Re: TheyStoleMyTesticlesAndPutThemInTheMicrowave » Brainbeard, posted by ed_uk2010 on October 28, 2010, at 15:14:54
>
> And perhaps you wanted to say 'I do not subscribe to conventional gay culture'?
>
>
Hm, no, that's not really it. I am 'gay-friendly'. Although I'm not parfticularly fond of the gay pride thing in Amsterdam. But I have a gay friend who doesn't like it either, so there you go.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on November 1, 2010, at 14:25:31
In reply to Re: TheyStoleMyTesticlesAndPutThemInTheMicrowave, posted by Brainbeard on November 1, 2010, at 6:56:29
>Although I'm not particularly fond of the gay pride thing in Amsterdam. But I have a gay friend who doesn't like it either, so there you go.
I expect they turn it into a circus. Slightly embarrasing.
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