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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 1:52:34
I think (right now) that I was better off before medication.
Yes, I started antidepressants because of depression. The depression was fed largely by anxiety, insomnia, and psychological issues.
After antidepressant use (two years in) came breakdown number one. (I had foolishly tried to self medicate with very low dose xanax--.)
I made it through school and graduate school unmedicated. Life kinda s*cked--it always has. But jeez, I'm not any better and am in fact worse.
I don't know how I'll ever work again much less string together enough sustained attention to 'be productive'
This isn't an anti-psych post. I'm just feeling scared. Today my pdoc (whom I like) said he didn't believe benzos, zdrugs and ad's affected sleep architecture. ???
That and when I decreased Xanax I had symptoms--I assumed it was just more mysterious symptoms that come and go, when pdoc says I'm experiencing withdrawal. Next day, in discomfort, I increase my dose a little. Yeah, the symptoms disappeared.
Life is going on and on (a bit like this post, I'm afraid).
I used to believe in medication.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 2:04:25
In reply to uncertain, but certainly scr*wed, posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 1:52:34
I found it. The word. Purgatory.
Posted by chujoe on May 25, 2010, at 7:19:14
In reply to Re: uncertain, but certainly scr*wed, posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 2:04:25
FB, I think that both the anti-psych position and the "psych drugs will fix you right up" views are vast over-simplifications. People in developed / technological societies have come to expect that if there is a problem there must be a solution; but maybe there are problems that can only be dealt with day-by-day rather than once & for all. That would mean that everybody lives in Purgatory, not just those who suffer from the group of conditions that go under the name of "mental illness."
Some people will tell you that drugs are the answer; some will tell you that not taking drugs is the answer. The problem is that "the answer" is different for different people at different times & in different circumstances. And that means that every day we get up and try to figure out how to live, whether we happen to be sick or well that day. (Yes, there are times when we are incapable of taking care of ourselves -- for physical or mental reasons -- and that is when being a member of a social species comes in handy. Those of us lucky enough to have caring families or health care providers to help them are truly blessed -- those without such help live in hell.)
Anyway, this post is sort of incoherent, but I'm trying to say that passivity is a great danger -- and believing in a single fix or cure allows one to be passive: "There's nothing I can do, drugs didn't work for me." I'm not saying this is what you're doing here necessarily -- it's just the direction your post got me thinking toward.
Posted by SLS on May 25, 2010, at 8:28:33
In reply to Re: uncertain, but certainly scr*wed, posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 2:04:25
> I found it. The word. Purgatory.
Hi FB.
I have nothing intelligent to say except that I can certainly empathize with you and that I am sorry that you have to be in such a place.
I like what Chujoe had to say.
I wouldn't give up on psychopharmacology just yet. In my mind, heart, and soul, I believe that for some lucky people, there are magic pills. I had luck one time. Pills won't take away the problems of everyday living or any psychological issues that remain unresolved, but you will have a much easier time dealing with them. Interestingly, when I respond well to treatment, I don't feel that it is me who has changed, but, rather, it is the world that becomes different. It is like emerging out of the darkness and into a bright new world full of reward and clarity.
I hope you emerge soon.
- Scott
Posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2010, at 9:42:30
In reply to uncertain, but certainly scr*wed, posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 1:52:34
> I think (right now) that I was better off before medication.
>
> Yes, I started antidepressants because of depression. The depression was fed largely by anxiety, insomnia, and psychological issues.
>
> After antidepressant use (two years in) came breakdown number one. (I had foolishly tried to self medicate with very low dose xanax--.)
>
> I made it through school and graduate school unmedicated. Life kinda s*cked--it always has. But jeez, I'm not any better and am in fact worse.
>
> I don't know how I'll ever work again much less string together enough sustained attention to 'be productive'
>
> This isn't an anti-psych post. I'm just feeling scared. Today my pdoc (whom I like) said he didn't believe benzos, zdrugs and ad's affected sleep architecture. ???
>
> That and when I decreased Xanax I had symptoms--I assumed it was just more mysterious symptoms that come and go, when pdoc says I'm experiencing withdrawal. Next day, in discomfort, I increase my dose a little. Yeah, the symptoms disappeared.
>
> Life is going on and on (a bit like this post, I'm afraid).
>
> I used to believe in medication.
>
>I think the best attitude is meds are a tool for us. Think of the ascending anxiety or depression as a freefall into a dark pit. The meds are a parachute to break the fall.
I think we expect to much from them and we are disappointed when they don't cure us. Regardless we still have to force ourselves outthere and work at our goals.
Drug combos will poop out and we will need new ones. Sometimes we may need a new p-doc who is a better pharmacologist.
I guess I get a little puzzled by peoples announcements. Today my drugs are working and people announce that drugs are great. They stop working and people announce drugs suck.
Life is complex and finding one's health is a real battle. Some days are good and other days are gloomy. This is a struggle to attain remission. Maybe if you stop looking for a miracle in a pill you will be much better off.
Remember they are to stop that freefall. Or think of them as pain pills that take enough pain away that you can function and work on your problems.
> I think (right now) that I was better off before medication.
I have seen the statement above and I don't know how people can even begin to make it or prove it.
So hear we are years down the road and you are worse off than when you started meds. Your implication seems to be that meds caused the worsening of your condition. So let's look at the possibilites.
1. meds made your condition worse
2. meds may have slowed the decline of your mental health. Perhaps without meds you would be in an institution. when one has a disease such as anxiety and depression they can get better or they can get worse.
In my case and I was unmedicated for years there was a slow decline and things got worse and worse.
Why do people assume they will just go into remission on their own?3. The meds did nothing. They did not influence the progression of your disease in either a positive or a negative way.
We have to take responsibility for our health (mental,physical).We can't look for miracles in a pill and when they don't deliver that blame the pill(s) for everything that has gone wrong.
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2010, at 10:33:38
In reply to Re: uncertain, but certainly scr*wed, posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2010, at 9:42:30
I don't know what I think as I see some that meds work wonders for and then some that they don't seem to help. I know my thinking effects how they work for me. As right now I'm in the free fall down and I keep trying to climb up and my mind just spins. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 10:36:10
In reply to Re: uncertain, but certainly scr*wed, posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2010, at 9:42:30
Oh, thank you for your posts. I'm a little embarrassed right now--there are some thoughts I spare my family.
Thinking through these three posts along w/ my day, I think I was shocked that my pdoc denied the affect of meds on sleep architecture. So he's not perfect. Yet he's also wonderful. This puts me in the driver's seat w/ meds and treatment, doesn't it? Some people might relish this. Scares the cr*p out of me.
Yes, I am quite passive. I'm waiting for someone or something to convince me that life is worth living or that I am worth living it. I don't expect that from anyone here :) I don't think that's why I posted.
I do get frightened pretty easily-- I'd love to go around under someone's wing all the time--yet everyone and everything points to using my own wings. I know, at least I think I'm getting it. But what if one's wings are defective. (Find a new metaphor?)
Thanks to the people of this forum.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 10:47:25
In reply to Re: uncertain, but certainly scr*wed, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2010, at 10:33:38
> I don't know what I think as I see some that meds work wonders for and then some that they don't seem to help. I know my thinking effects how they work for me. As right now I'm in the free fall down and I keep trying to climb up and my mind just spins. Phillipa
Phillipa, free fall anxiety? And depression? Are you able to get out much?
Posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2010, at 12:15:51
In reply to yes to all of the above, posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 10:36:10
> Oh, thank you for your posts. I'm a little embarrassed right now--there are some thoughts I spare my family.
>
> Thinking through these three posts along w/ my day, I think I was shocked that my pdoc denied the affect of meds on sleep architecture. So he's not perfect. Yet he's also wonderful. This puts me in the driver's seat w/ meds and treatment, doesn't it? Some people might relish this. Scares the cr*p out of me.
>
> Yes, I am quite passive. I'm waiting for someone or something to convince me that life is worth living or that I am worth living it. I don't expect that from anyone here :) I don't think that's why I posted.
>
> I do get frightened pretty easily-- I'd love to go around under someone's wing all the time--yet everyone and everything points to using my own wings. I know, at least I think I'm getting it. But what if one's wings are defective. (Find a new metaphor?)
>
> Thanks to the people of this forum.I suffer from a condition called rejection sensitivity which causes stress which as we know can lead to depression.
1. This causes an extreme reaction to negative criticism
2. leads to lack of self confidenceThe clomipramine seems to buffer me from the hurt of criticism. So there is something in the chemistry of this med that makes me feel less hurt when someone criticizes me.It could be elevated serotonin. Who knows? So now I have a good opportunity to grow.
1. Work on the rejection sensitivity. I tell myself that other people's attacks on me are not going to knock me down and devastate me. I will not give others that power.
2. self confidence. My opinions are as important as that of others. I trust my opinions and don't need others to validate me.I guess my reaction to this med tells me that chemistry is involved in our personality. But I guess we have a role in the creation of our chemistry.
Floating you have to create a sense of validation in which you find the answers in yourself and don't need others to validate you. I found that out the hard way and the painful way. The right meds really can help you by changing chemistry that makes you feel more positive. But you have to tell yourself the right things.
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2010, at 19:37:33
In reply to free fall? » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 10:47:25
FB have to get out or go nuts no way to relax. Right now anxiety and post surgical depression I hope. Love Phillipa ps but have to be with Greg
Posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2010, at 11:13:57
In reply to uncertain, but certainly scr*wed, posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2010, at 1:52:34
Hot flashes (menopause has begun), pain, and depression; can you spell train wreck?
There are things best left unsaid to family, like not being sure life is worth living. Like handing someone a piece of barbed wire.
Thanks for being here. And Bulldog, thanks for your sage advice--I appreciate it!
Posted by Justherself54 on May 26, 2010, at 12:55:35
In reply to brushing off my dbt skills + other considerations, posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2010, at 11:13:57
(((((hugs))))..hope you feel better real soon. Menopause sucks..
Posted by bulldog2 on May 26, 2010, at 14:45:59
In reply to brushing off my dbt skills + other considerations, posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2010, at 11:13:57
> Hot flashes (menopause has begun), pain, and depression; can you spell train wreck?
>
> There are things best left unsaid to family, like not being sure life is worth living. Like handing someone a piece of barbed wire.
>
> Thanks for being here. And Bulldog, thanks for your sage advice--I appreciate it!
>
>Well thank you. Being able to help you makes my day!
Posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2010, at 20:16:38
In reply to brushing off my dbt skills + other considerations, posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2010, at 11:13:57
Been there done that not pretty but my dear there is an answer visit your ob-gyn and get on the natural bioidental hormones. The doc can test your hormone levels. Now is the perfect time as they will work. There are creams to your prescription, trouches, patches. It seriously will help you. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2010, at 21:28:55
In reply to Re: brushing off my dbt skills + other considerations » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2010, at 20:16:38
Phillipa, are you doing this? Yeah, the endo is next. Jeez, didn't go to a doctor for 20 years.... Now it's like a pass time. :(
Posted by Phillipa on May 26, 2010, at 22:07:31
In reply to Re: brushing off my dbt skills + other considerati » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2010, at 21:28:55
FB during menopause had the one size fits all they just didn't test hormone levels other than FSH to see where you were in menopause. My next door neighbor your age just starting or a bit past you is using a spray bioidentical and promethium pill and estrogen patch. All considered bioidentical. I went to an antiaging ob-gyn who isn't doing that anymore just the hormones and got tested. I'm on cream of estrogen/progesterone/testosterone based on my labs. When had been on them about six months labs again and levels were in ranges of premenopausal. I thought wait do I want that stage? Where the problems start so taking less than prescribed as have osteoporosis and will not take those meds. Remember the site? Lots of good info there on hormones also. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 27, 2010, at 0:06:31
In reply to Re: brushing off my dbt skills + other considerations » floatingbridge, posted by Justherself54 on May 26, 2010, at 12:55:35
> (((((hugs))))..hope you feel better real soon. Menopause sucks..
Thanks, Justherself. Nice to see you. How are you doing? I read that you are/were having some breakthrough pain? Have you found an effective way to deal with that?
I was relieved of my fibro diagnosis :) yesterday. Saw a wonderful physiatrist who did a proper tender spot test. Very respectful. Says if you're a woman with pain, depression, and sleep issues, many docs will write you off--. (My last experience.)
So, the universe throws me a bone. I'll take it!
Thanks for the hug.
Posted by Justherself54 on May 28, 2010, at 18:41:08
In reply to Re: brushing off my dbt skills + other considerati » Justherself54, posted by floatingbridge on May 27, 2010, at 0:06:31
Hi FB.
The breakthrough pain seems to have settled down. I think I was in a vehicle too long for too many days in a row.
I'm going to be upping my dose to 150 mg. starting tonight. Let's hope the side effect ogre doesn't visit me.
After a little over a week I have to have blood work again to see where my levels are. Here's hoping the increase goes well.
Take care of you!
Posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2010, at 21:45:23
In reply to Re: brushing off my dbt skills + other considerati » floatingbridge, posted by Justherself54 on May 28, 2010, at 18:41:08
Good luck and so glad the pain is gone. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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