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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by desolationrower on March 17, 2009, at 3:39:30
In reply to To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 0:04:58
well i really doubt this is a sequela from green tea,,i think its just a slow walking panic attack. about dopamine, i forget exactly, i think peripherally it causes vasodilation and tachycardia? not sure. also MAOIs increase melatonin so you might not be benefiting from supplementing, although what i noticed is that it just seemed less effective with an maoi.
-d/r
Posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 9:41:17
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by desolationrower on March 17, 2009, at 3:39:30
My only real noob explaination would be a combination of these (all ive read in the literature):
melatonin causes low bp from what ive read
seroquel causes low bp also
benzo's and benzo-working herbs low bp also
nardil in itself causes low bp
melatonin mixed with benzos causes increased low bp
.......
then along comes green tea extract...not sure but this is where the ball started to roll so to speak. I think it to may cause (some of the compounds like EGCG) low bp....would be expected since it's good on the heart etc...I suspect all of this sh*t together just combined and was lowering my bp unnoticed (ive read low bp is subtle until you get into trouble) all along then the green tea extract was like the straw that broke the camels back and everything went to hell 1h after that green tea extract kicked in. Thats my noob explaination.
d/r or someone....can you guys give me a more educated opinion on what happened or you think?...i'm formulating a report of my experience with literature refs etc to show my dr....this may actually be enough to open his eyes to a proper benzo type sleep aid and not low doses of wither tripe he prefers to use.
On the side...I improperly mentioned melatonin feeds back into the DA pathway...actually feeds back into TDO and IDO, tryptophan dioxygenase and indolamine deoxygenase, respectively.
Also on the side...I only took temazepam for sleep last night, its still working, but I seem to feel better, not perfect yet still a lil dizzy and pains in chest etc but not nearly as bad as the nights with melatonin and seroquel together for sleep. Hope the temazepam isnt masking anything. I suspect simply eliminating those sleep aids and getting a good sleep inducing benzo will do the trick. ***fingers crossed. I really dont want to have to taper down the nardil then go back up again, ive been side effect free for so long now.
thnks
myco
----------------------
> well i really doubt this is a sequela from green tea,,i think its just a slow walking panic attack. about dopamine, i forget exactly, i think peripherally it causes vasodilation and tachycardia? not sure. also MAOIs increase melatonin so you might not be benefiting from supplementing, although what i noticed is that it just seemed less effective with an maoi.
>
> -d/r
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2009, at 12:20:41
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » desolationrower, posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 9:41:17
Myco it's not gone yet. Years ago I took melatonin so wierd as I didn't want to breath. This was when only on benzos low doses. What exactly does melatonin do? I know reset body clock? Phillipa
Posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 12:42:25
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » myco, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2009, at 12:20:41
---------------------
Today it is starting to get better...I didnt take seroquel or melatonin last night, not sure which one is the problem but I suspect its melatonin. Melatonin, itself causes low bp, it's formed through the seratonin pathway naturally in your body.
So I was getting natural melatonin from my brain then I was getting supplemental melatonin from a pill and nardil increases melatonin...so most likely all added up to a bad effect that was set off by the green tea extract.
Also seroquel increases low bp and works synergistically with nardil to increase low bp even more so not entirely sure which one is problem.....but I guess melatonin.
Also you arent supposed to mix melatonin supplements with benzos....its a bad mix that will lead to breathing problems (like you had) and low bp. The benzo monographs dont mention this and the melatonin bottle doesnt mention this...so how would joe average know? by making the mistake and seeing a problem.
Herbals and supplements really need to become part of some kind of testing and regulatory body or somebody is gonna get seriously hurt oneday, if not already on some supposedly "safe" combo.
Melatonin supplements are ideally used for a short time and ideally once and awhile....they are good for people who work shift work and have to work nights one week then days next etc...their sleep patterns and hormones (like melatonin) get all messed up....so supplementing it will tell your body its time to sleep and help them reset the clock.
The supplement marketers picked up on the idea that it can used to induce sleep and sell it as such...but they dont usually tell you to avoid long term use which is dangerous. And they certainly dont tell you about interactions.
Also there is lots of literature on pubmed about the toxic and dangerous effects of melatonin that I had no idea about...but i'm sure in tiny doses used in the short term its harmless....I had been using it for many months straight and years and years on a semi regular basis as sleep has always been an issue...it just took melatonin meeting nardil in my body to cause a problem...no issues before that.
------------------> Myco it's not gone yet. Years ago I took melatonin so wierd as I didn't want to breath. This was when only on benzos low doses. What exactly does melatonin do? I know reset body clock? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2009, at 20:24:42
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » Phillipa, posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 12:42:25
Myco thanks wow I was lucky. Love Phillipa
Posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 21:13:03
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » myco, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2009, at 20:24:42
Tonight my bp (I bought a lil machine for it) is all out of whack...its way higher than normal and its bouncing all over. I think taking away the cause of it being low is having a rebound effect. Should stabilize in a couple days or I will go as my moron gp for advice lol. I'm worried hes gonna say ok time to stop the nardil...what will I do then...no med has worked like this before. be a real shame.
As for the melatonin...I think you would really have to overdue it with the benzo phillipa to have a problem...a lil bit will just be uncomfy. But give people a heads up if you see them mixing them...find out if they are having breathing problems or low bp....now you can offer an explaination ;o). See even a newbie like me can learn something new everyday.
> Myco thanks wow I was lucky. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2009, at 21:36:34
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » Phillipa, posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 21:13:03
Myco am going to post my thread now as so confused by the internet on what's dangerous with benzos two and luvox. I freaked myself out. Love Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 0:04:17
In reply to To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 0:04:58
> Hey,
>
> Recently I had somewhat of a misadventure with trying to potentiate the DA and SE effects of Nardil with green tea extract. Well that was almost a week ago and I am still in a state of dizzyness, tinnitus, throbbing head in 4's every few minutes, chest pains, difficulty breathing seems like...heavy breathing or shortness of breath. Ive only been able to "catch" my bp on a bp machine at safeway on occasion but will buy one tommorrow to monitor thoroughly....question....I knew that there was an enhanced DA effect with the green tea before it all shot to hell...is it possible that whatever neuro-enhancement it has done to me is still in there almost a week later because nardil (75mg) is completely inhibiting mao...also I take melatonin every night in lil bits which feeds back into DA according to studies (also just read its not as benign as I thought)....so mabye all this combine to produce a result that makes me feel like i'm going bloody brain dead here? lol Think it is as easy as lowering the nardil to allow mao to work again (stopping melatonin also) and not f*ck*ng around with DA supplements anymore....to rid this head crazyness? I almost fell over getting out of this chair 10mins ago..nardil has never done that to me. Please share on the validity of this or experience with sides that just dont go away. I think this green tea is toying with me ... you made a mistake d*ckh**d now you will pay moohoohoohahahahaha. bah...i'd love to sleep but my entire head goes beat red and sweats like a pig when I lay down then waking up is massive headache time everymorning. Someone shoot this horse lol.
>
> mycoHey myco,
When you turn into a horse we'll get right on that....until then, I do think its very possible you have some BP issues that need to be addressed immediately. At this point I don't think it matters what caused it, other than drop everything you've added that wasn't Doc approved. Go get a monitor in the morning and then call your PDoc if the results aren't normal. 120-130/80 roughly is the norm. But you should contact your PDoc if Systolic goes over 145-150,or under 90 or your diastolic goes below 60. Those are the perameters my PDoc gave me. He is a little conservative but with symptoms, I'd follow it.
I think you need to contact him anyway as you are symptomatic and you don't know why. Give him exact symptoms and BP #'s and he should be able to figure it out. You'll have to fess up to whatever you've added. But thats better than an "undesirable" outcome.Btw- is the headache in the back of your head, kinda in those two vertical muscles in your neck, does it pound? Thats high blood pressure.
Myco, I just reread your symptoms and I think you should be seen asap. I'm not an alarmist, but those sound like BP issues and you don't want to mess with that. Do you have insurance? If your symptoms are bad or that headache is as I described, I think you should get hold of your PDoc, now, or I'd get seen tonight at the ER. They may just monitor you, but better safe than sorry. Make sure they know about MAOI's.Don't ask for pain meds. They are contraindicated.
Maybe first go to an allnite grocery/pharmacy and check your BP again. What was it last time, when?
Jeez, Myco, didn't your mommy teach you never to play with your meds?? Let me hear back from you asap, Okay? Describe your current state. Babble me tonite if you can. I'll be up.
~Jade
Posted by zzzz7 on March 18, 2009, at 5:40:08
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by desolationrower on March 17, 2009, at 3:39:30
Green tea may well have a slight DA-raising effect. Melatonin may decrease serotonin levels, thus boosting DA levels.
Posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 10:18:02
In reply to Re: MYCO-READ ASAP » myco, posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 0:04:17
Hi hun,
Thank you for caring so much...makes me smile.
At this point the sides are easing up though I still get mild boughts...worst ones at night when i'm tired and/or laying down. When I started nardil my bp, dr check, was on the low end of normal...he was fine with that because I was normally on the high end of normal. The green tea thing made it stay low end of normal but bounce up and down into the are of too low....last safeway check while I was in that bad week was ok though at 101/68. Now...I didnt know what was going on so I decided to stop the seroquel and the melatonin...well I think they were helping my bp stay on the low side because once taken away...the sides dimished somewhat but now my bp is on the high end of normal with jumps into the hypertensive area....bought a machine like you suggested....readings on average seem to be "normal" in the morning area at about 120/70 area then they gradually get worse towards bedtime....fluctuating in the 135-145/70-90 area...Also depend on whether i am standing, sitting or laying...standing I am normal, sitting I am borderline more often and laying it bounces occasionally into the hypertensive area...highest reading was laying down at night with 148/90 or so. Im not sure on the actual accuracy here though...its a new machine and its manual...pharmacist said its a great machine but you must learn how to do it properly, there is technique beyond just following instructions that will make your values way off....so I read my values in reps of 3 then average. Anyway blah blah...minor episodes still continuing.....yes I will be goin to dr tommorrow, earlier if something dire happens. Tommorrow is only availability of dr and car....so another clinic or emerge are my only options. dr would be angry if i went to another clinic (unless it was emergency)...he's very protective of my treatment..its the way he wants it and doesnt want other dr messing with it.
I'm watching this very closely though Jade...i will not hesitate to call ambulance if i need to. I just want to be sure because i know my dr....he will suggest, most likely, that this bouncing around of bp is do to my stopping the melatonin and seroquel (for sleep) cold turkey which may have sent my bp into an exagerated state of readjustment that may fix intself....most likely he will say myco go home and rest and use that lil machine and monitor close, stay off all other meds only nardil and if problem come back immediately or lower the nardil (which he may do right away)....but I will fight like a dog if you says "ya time to stop nardil"...this med has "turned it around" for me and i'm not gonna give up unless i am in trouble so i want to be sure....i know this may indicate i am headed, well it does im sure, in a bad direction. Id like to just treat it or wait it out if I can. I'm not sure he will have an answer for the green tea extract reaction though...biochem and gp's? not sure they mix well.
Anyway...i will keep in touch with you Jade...you seem to be a very caring person. this is good to have on babble...someone who will actually speak up and hey buddy get your *ss to the hospital or dr now.
oh the headaches you wanted to know about...it's like this fizzy feeling, intense at times, all over my brain with tinnitus (they go hand in hand)...then throbbing occurs sometimes always in reps of 4 and directing in a semi-circle or arch above each ear going toward the back of my head to forward to my eyes. effects vision at its worst times. these have thankly gotten very minimal and more subtle.
*hugs
myco----------------
----------------------
> Hey myco,
>
> When you turn into a horse we'll get right on that....until then, I do think its very possible you have some BP issues that need to be addressed immediately. At this point I don't think it matters what caused it, other than drop everything you've added that wasn't Doc approved. Go get a monitor in the morning and then call your PDoc if the results aren't normal. 120-130/80 roughly is the norm. But you should contact your PDoc if Systolic goes over 145-150,or under 90 or your diastolic goes below 60. Those are the perameters my PDoc gave me. He is a little conservative but with symptoms, I'd follow it.
>
> I think you need to contact him anyway as you are symptomatic and you don't know why. Give him exact symptoms and BP #'s and he should be able to figure it out. You'll have to fess up to whatever you've added. But thats better than an "undesirable" outcome.Btw- is the headache in the back of your head, kinda in those two vertical muscles in your neck, does it pound? Thats high blood pressure.
>
> Myco, I just reread your symptoms and I think you should be seen asap. I'm not an alarmist, but those sound like BP issues and you don't want to mess with that. Do you have insurance? If your symptoms are bad or that headache is as I described, I think you should get hold of your PDoc, now, or I'd get seen tonight at the ER. They may just monitor you, but better safe than sorry. Make sure they know about MAOI's.Don't ask for pain meds. They are contraindicated.
>
> Maybe first go to an allnite grocery/pharmacy and check your BP again. What was it last time, when?
>
> Jeez, Myco, didn't your mommy teach you never to play with your meds?? Let me hear back from you asap, Okay? Describe your current state. Babble me tonite if you can. I'll be up.
>
> ~Jade
>
>
Posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 11:22:45
In reply to To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by myco on March 17, 2009, at 0:04:58
> Hey,
>
> Recently I had somewhat of a misadventure with trying to potentiate the DA and SE effects of Nardil with green tea extract. Well that was almost a week ago and I am still in a state of dizzyness, tinnitus, throbbing head in 4's every few minutes, chest pains, difficulty breathing seems like...heavy breathing or shortness of breath. Ive only been able to "catch" my bp on a bp machine at safeway on occasion but will buy one tommorrow to monitor thoroughly....question....I knew that there was an enhanced DA effect with the green tea before it all shot to hell...is it possible that whatever neuro-enhancement it has done to me is still in there almost a week later because nardil (75mg) is completely inhibiting mao...also I take melatonin every night in lil bits which feeds back into DA according to studies (also just read its not as benign as I thought)....so mabye all this combine to produce a result that makes me feel like i'm going bloody brain dead here? lol Think it is as easy as lowering the nardil to allow mao to work again (stopping melatonin also) and not f*ck*ng around with DA supplements anymore....to rid this head crazyness? I almost fell over getting out of this chair 10mins ago..nardil has never done that to me. Please share on the validity of this or experience with sides that just dont go away. I think this green tea is toying with me ... you made a mistake d*ckh**d now you will pay moohoohoohahahahaha. bah...i'd love to sleep but my entire head goes beat red and sweats like a pig when I lay down then waking up is massive headache time everymorning. Someone shoot this horse lol.
>
> myco
Hi myco ;-)Glad all is cool. So far lol. Those headaches you are referring to are happening when your BP is going up. Sounds like it didn't go up to high but high enough to cause symptoms. Can you get a digital monitor if you're having trouble? I think medical people can get a more accurate read from the manual one, but alas, being lame we'll have to use digital to come close.
I take 6mg of Melatonin a few nights a week and never get high BP. Are you taking ANYTHING else other than the green tea? OTC product? Soy protien shake, anything like that? Check out the new food list I posted just to be sure, read 1st 2 posts. I don't know what is in Green Tea other than caffiene, if its an energy drink it could be the culprit. Ginseng? Doesnt it have Ginseng? Check that on line too. Something doesn't sound right. Unless your taking this stuff in large quantities.
Something is causing it. Do you have an antidote, ie: Nifedipine, or one of those? I would get that from PDoc asap also. If your BP is going up and up and that headache is becoming unbearable take one. Standing up was the one thing that eased my headache I remember. If you stop that stuff, your BP should settle down, and you don't have to make a big deal to your PDoc, or your right, he/she might take you off.
I had to beg mine to keep me on. I actually negotiated with him and took Nifedipine for a week after, I don't recommend it, it was awful. If you cant find whats doing it, Tell PDoc the med is working well and you don't want to stop could he help you figure out what your doing wrong, mention the tea and melatonin, and see what happens. If you don't become completely normal, you may be able to augment with something that lowers BP. I take Ritalin with my Parnate or my BP would be way to low. Also it works to potentiate the Parnate. You have the opposite problem and it needs to be corrected. Normally you would be complaining of low BP by now! I do think all of your symptoms can be explained by the high BP, or whats causing it.
Remember, take stock of everything you're eating and drinking, and see if its on the list as okay. Make sure you're not ingesting large quantities of a food to be taken in moderation, etc. I'm gonna look into green tea and melatonin and see what I can find. One more thing, sometimes those things come with added stuff, like melatonin can come with Thiamine for stress releif (Okay) not sure what they add to tea. Okay, good luck and let me know what happens! I'll get back to you if I find anything more on those two things.
I agree, if your responding some now (how long?), that means you will probably eventually respond fully, I wouldn't want to give that up either.
~Jade ;-)
Posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 11:58:14
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » myco, posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 11:22:45
Sorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.digital monitor not sure...my lil bp machine is digital with a hand pump...pharm guy claims its great once you know how to use it....only practice not the manual will teach you properly he said. that one was 40 bucks the automatic ones start at 90...im broke lol
These are things that I put into me on a daily basis to deal with anxiety or sleep:
-nardil 75mg (morn, aft, night)
-multivitamins (one of those big centrum things)
-extra B's when needed
-extra calcium and D when needed (usually everyday in morning)
-Various types of herbal teas with no caffeine - most benign ones but i use one called AdrenaTea...contains rhodiola and licorice and a few other sedative type plants...never had a bad experience with this one. taken for many month everynight
-occasional magnesium citrate capsules (300mg total) cuz it works on benzo sites to calm me
-melatonin (0.3-1mg; literally; discontinued for now)
-seroquel (25mg, discontinued for now)
-doxylamine (last night 25mg, antihistamine for sleep)
-"scullcap" extract - benzo-like herb. 3-4 nights a week
-occasionally (no we get funky and stupid on my part perhaps) L-tyrosine (100mg - tiny dose) for stimulation. have used total of 6 times on nardil only. 5htp (20mg - tiny dose - follows the next day with tyrosine - 6 times total only). havent used either of these in weeks.
-temazepam (30mg) once in a blue moon or when scullcap isnt cutting it. i dont like to overuse these guys. this actually surpressed my bp symptoms one night allowing me think it may be over then the next day nope still there
-norflex (OTC muscle relaxant - occasionally - last time 5 days ago during that hell)
-acetominophen - 400mg tops usually - as needed for those blasted throbbing headaches - minor relief
-ibuprofin (400-800mg) occasional - prefer acet for head and ibu for body pain. used 2 days ago for that chest pain - didnt work.Thats been my ritual as of late...different stuff has occured in the near distant past but these are the closest ones.
The green tea extract has something called EGCG in very high content (its healthy for people they say)....biochemically it is a natural decarboxylase inhibitor Jade...what that means is that when you take enough of it it prevent L-dopa from becoming dopamine and 5htp from becoming seratonin temporarily then you get a dopamine and seratonin surge. That dopamine will definately play on nardil dopamine effects so thats why i think (i almost am sure) green tea extract set off a chain of events leading to out of control bp...to much DA does that as I understand but not sure. Bloody stupid call on my part to take whole capsule and not break it open and take a part. Living (lol holding on anyway) and learning.
Oh yes i forgot...one of my fav teas...green tea with ginseng...taken most days for a quick blast of stimulation. one cup (two most) brewed no more than 4 min - i am aware of potential problems of ginseng but thought was ok in tiny bits. Last time taken 4 days ago during hell week.
Did I notice a diff? no...made me feel better on my feet actually...took away the sluggish no energy side effect of the bp issueJade I never take anything in large quantities seriously...i do use myself (stupid i know) as a guinea pig occasionally by trying the smallest doses of things ive researched (believe me i read alot) like tyrosine and 5htp...i know they are used by some pdocs with maois in tiny doses. but i always break open the capsules and dump out most...divide on a mirror with razor to estimate dosage etc...the culprit is most likely that green tea extract with its DA and SE boosting issues...messing with those in the tinyest bit can result in bad effects with nardil...larry was clear on this with me...i choose to try anyway...my fault. I didnt know the EGCG was so powerful anyway...i'm learning and will stop messing about lol run that idea by you pdoc and see what he says...i dont have one, im canadian you have to wait like a year to get one...gps are what most of us have to deal with unless youve waited in line for ages. gps will not understand this question very well.
i do not have a bp antidote...dr wasnt concerned overly. said if i want he will though. i didnt think about it really. never had an issue with bp until now. time to get one tommorrow
God I hope he doesnt take me off nardil...its really been just what i needed...i feel normal, can socialize and work again...it killed my smoking need, alcohol and drug addictions (my way of self medicating because drs wouldnt help me at the time with anxiety - said im depressed which is bullocks - stupid gps). Think he will want to pull it? man i will freak, its gonna make me go into relapse and im gonna become that neurotic overreacting publicly crippled guy i lived most of life as again...i will kill myself before I am forced to go back to that. I would say almost complete remission of anxiety on nardil...one or two bad days here and there...but i get whole weeks or awesome kick *ss days...thats not happened since i was a kid
myco
-----------------
> Hi myco ;-)
>
> Glad all is cool. So far lol. Those headaches you are referring to are happening when your BP is going up. Sounds like it didn't go up to high but high enough to cause symptoms. Can you get a digital monitor if you're having trouble? I think medical people can get a more accurate read from the manual one, but alas, being lame we'll have to use digital to come close.
>
> I take 6mg of Melatonin a few nights a week and never get high BP. Are you taking ANYTHING else other than the green tea? OTC product? Soy protien shake, anything like that? Check out the new food list I posted just to be sure, read 1st 2 posts. I don't know what is in Green Tea other than caffiene, if its an energy drink it could be the culprit. Ginseng? Doesnt it have Ginseng? Check that on line too. Something doesn't sound right. Unless your taking this stuff in large quantities.
>
> Something is causing it. Do you have an antidote, ie: Nifedipine, or one of those? I would get that from PDoc asap also. If your BP is going up and up and that headache is becoming unbearable take one. Standing up was the one thing that eased my headache I remember. If you stop that stuff, your BP should settle down, and you don't have to make a big deal to your PDoc, or your right, he/she might take you off.
>
> I had to beg mine to keep me on. I actually negotiated with him and took Nifedipine for a week after, I don't recommend it, it was awful. If you cant find whats doing it, Tell PDoc the med is working well and you don't want to stop could he help you figure out what your doing wrong, mention the tea and melatonin, and see what happens. If you don't become completely normal, you may be able to augment with something that lowers BP. I take Ritalin with my Parnate or my BP would be way to low. Also it works to potentiate the Parnate. You have the opposite problem and it needs to be corrected. Normally you would be complaining of low BP by now! I do think all of your symptoms can be explained by the high BP, or whats causing it.
>
> Remember, take stock of everything you're eating and drinking, and see if its on the list as okay. Make sure you're not ingesting large quantities of a food to be taken in moderation, etc. I'm gonna look into green tea and melatonin and see what I can find. One more thing, sometimes those things come with added stuff, like melatonin can come with Thiamine for stress releif (Okay) not sure what they add to tea. Okay, good luck and let me know what happens! I'll get back to you if I find anything more on those two things.
>
> I agree, if your responding some now (how long?), that means you will probably eventually respond fully, I wouldn't want to give that up either.
>
> ~Jade ;-)
>
Posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 12:21:34
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » JadeKelly, posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 11:58:14
>
> Sorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
> I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.
>
> digital monitor not sure...my lil bp machine is digital with a hand pump...pharm guy claims its great once you know how to use it....only practice not the manual will teach you properly he said. that one was 40 bucks the automatic ones start at 90...im broke lol
>
> These are things that I put into me on a daily basis to deal with anxiety or sleep:
>
> -nardil 75mg (morn, aft, night)
> -multivitamins (one of those big centrum things)
> -extra B's when needed
> -extra calcium and D when needed (usually everyday in morning)
> -Various types of herbal teas with no caffeine - most benign ones but i use one called AdrenaTea...contains rhodiola and licorice and a few other sedative type plants...never had a bad experience with this one. taken for many month everynight
> -occasional magnesium citrate capsules (300mg total) cuz it works on benzo sites to calm me
> -melatonin (0.3-1mg; literally; discontinued for now)
> -seroquel (25mg, discontinued for now)
> -doxylamine (last night 25mg, antihistamine for sleep)
> -"scullcap" extract - benzo-like herb. 3-4 nights a week
> -occasionally (no we get funky and stupid on my part perhaps) L-tyrosine (100mg - tiny dose) for stimulation. have used total of 6 times on nardil only. 5htp (20mg - tiny dose - follows the next day with tyrosine - 6 times total only). havent used either of these in weeks.
> -temazepam (30mg) once in a blue moon or when scullcap isnt cutting it. i dont like to overuse these guys. this actually surpressed my bp symptoms one night allowing me think it may be over then the next day nope still there
> -norflex (OTC muscle relaxant - occasionally - last time 5 days ago during that hell)
> -acetominophen - 400mg tops usually - as needed for those blasted throbbing headaches - minor relief
> -ibuprofin (400-800mg) occasional - prefer acet for head and ibu for body pain. used 2 days ago for that chest pain - didnt work.
>
> Thats been my ritual as of late...different stuff has occured in the near distant past but these are the closest ones.
>
> The green tea extract has something called EGCG in very high content (its healthy for people they say)....biochemically it is a natural decarboxylase inhibitor Jade...what that means is that when you take enough of it it prevent L-dopa from becoming dopamine and 5htp from becoming seratonin temporarily then you get a dopamine and seratonin surge. That dopamine will definately play on nardil dopamine effects so thats why i think (i almost am sure) green tea extract set off a chain of events leading to out of control bp...to much DA does that as I understand but not sure. Bloody stupid call on my part to take whole capsule and not break it open and take a part. Living (lol holding on anyway) and learning.
>
> Oh yes i forgot...one of my fav teas...green tea with ginseng...taken most days for a quick blast of stimulation. one cup (two most) brewed no more than 4 min - i am aware of potential problems of ginseng but thought was ok in tiny bits. Last time taken 4 days ago during hell week.
> Did I notice a diff? no...made me feel better on my feet actually...took away the sluggish no energy side effect of the bp issue
>
> Jade I never take anything in large quantities seriously...i do use myself (stupid i know) as a guinea pig occasionally by trying the smallest doses of things ive researched (believe me i read alot) like tyrosine and 5htp...i know they are used by some pdocs with maois in tiny doses. but i always break open the capsules and dump out most...divide on a mirror with razor to estimate dosage etc...the culprit is most likely that green tea extract with its DA and SE boosting issues...messing with those in the tinyest bit can result in bad effects with nardil...larry was clear on this with me...i choose to try anyway...my fault. I didnt know the EGCG was so powerful anyway...i'm learning and will stop messing about lol run that idea by you pdoc and see what he says...i dont have one, im canadian you have to wait like a year to get one...gps are what most of us have to deal with unless youve waited in line for ages. gps will not understand this question very well.
>
> i do not have a bp antidote...dr wasnt concerned overly. said if i want he will though. i didnt think about it really. never had an issue with bp until now. time to get one tommorrow
>
> God I hope he doesnt take me off nardil...its really been just what i needed...i feel normal, can socialize and work again...it killed my smoking need, alcohol and drug addictions (my way of self medicating because drs wouldnt help me at the time with anxiety - said im depressed which is bullocks - stupid gps). Think he will want to pull it? man i will freak, its gonna make me go into relapse and im gonna become that neurotic overreacting publicly crippled guy i lived most of life as again...i will kill myself before I am forced to go back to that. I would say almost complete remission of anxiety on nardil...one or two bad days here and there...but i get whole weeks or awesome kick *ss days...thats not happened since i was a kid
>
> myco
>
> -----------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> TUESDAY NIGHT
>
> > Hi myco ;-)
> >
> > Glad all is cool. So far lol. Those headaches you are referring to are happening when your BP is going up. Sounds like it didn't go up to high but high enough to cause symptoms. Can you get a digital monitor if you're having trouble? I think medical people can get a more accurate read from the manual one, but alas, being lame we'll have to use digital to come close.
> >
> > I take 6mg of Melatonin a few nights a week and never get high BP. Are you taking ANYTHING else other than the green tea? OTC product? Soy protien shake, anything like that? Check out the new food list I posted just to be sure, read 1st 2 posts. I don't know what is in Green Tea other than caffiene, if its an energy drink it could be the culprit. Ginseng? Doesnt it have Ginseng? Check that on line too. Something doesn't sound right. Unless your taking this stuff in large quantities.
> >
> > Something is causing it. Do you have an antidote, ie: Nifedipine, or one of those? I would get that from PDoc asap also. If your BP is going up and up and that headache is becoming unbearable take one. Standing up was the one thing that eased my headache I remember. If you stop that stuff, your BP should settle down, and you don't have to make a big deal to your PDoc, or your right, he/she might take you off.
> >
> > I had to beg mine to keep me on. I actually negotiated with him and took Nifedipine for a week after, I don't recommend it, it was awful. If you cant find whats doing it, Tell PDoc the med is working well and you don't want to stop could he help you figure out what your doing wrong, mention the tea and melatonin, and see what happens. If you don't become completely normal, you may be able to augment with something that lowers BP. I take Ritalin with my Parnate or my BP would be way to low. Also it works to potentiate the Parnate. You have the opposite problem and it needs to be corrected. Normally you would be complaining of low BP by now! I do think all of your symptoms can be explained by the high BP, or whats causing it.
> >
> > Remember, take stock of everything you're eating and drinking, and see if its on the list as okay. Make sure you're not ingesting large quantities of a food to be taken in moderation, etc. I'm gonna look into green tea and melatonin and see what I can find. One more thing, sometimes those things come with added stuff, like melatonin can come with Thiamine for stress releif (Okay) not sure what they add to tea. Okay, good luck and let me know what happens! I'll get back to you if I find anything more on those two things.
> >
> > I agree, if your responding some now (how long?), that means you will probably eventually respond fully, I wouldn't want to give that up either.
> >
> > ~Jade ;-)
> >
>
WEDNESDAY 1:15PMSorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
Myco, this isn't funny, I'm serious now. NO WAITING UNTIL TOMMOROW You are in trouble, get help TODAY. If you don't see that you shouldn't be on Nardil. I'm dead serious here. Those symptoms, and the length of time, and the crap you've been adding, who knows whats happening BUT IT ISNT GOOD. Please, I urge you to go NOW.
I'm sending this, hoping you'll get it now and do the right thing, then I'll be back. Myco, do it.
Worried~Jade
I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.
Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2009, at 13:05:21
In reply to Re: MYCO NEEDS SOME HELP/ SCOTT-D/R » myco, posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 12:21:34
Myco someone just said you needed help and I'm not asking telling you to get your sweet butt to the hospital now not later. I'm e-mailing you now with a story of what happened to someone on nardil not pretty. But you know I love you my myco boy!!!! Darn you!!!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 14:04:10
In reply to Re: MYCO NEEDS SOME HELP/ SCOTT-D/R » myco, posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 12:21:34
> > >
> >
> WEDNESDAY 1:15PM
>
> Sorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
>
> Myco, this isn't funny, I'm serious now. NO WAITING UNTIL TOMMOROW You are in trouble, get help TODAY. If you don't see that you shouldn't be on Nardil. I'm dead serious here. Those symptoms, and the length of time, and the crap you've been adding, who knows whats happening BUT IT ISNT GOOD. Please, I urge you to go NOW.
>
> I'm sending this, hoping you'll get it now and do the right thing, then I'll be back. Myco, do it.
>
> Worried~Jade
>
>
> I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.Myco,
How bout givin us a shout here about how you are feeling. Hopefully you are at Docs or Hospital. Let me know or I swear I will contact everyone on this board to hassle you into it. Its because I care....tough love and all that. I care more that you can post here tommorow than how much you like me right at the moment. You're one of the few people who make me laugh, I'd like to hear later about your *ss hanging out of a hospital robe. The girls here (including me) would like details. Okay. Let me know what the plan is, K?
~Jade
Posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 14:34:09
In reply to Re: MYCO NEEDS SOME HELP/ SCOTT-D/R, posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 14:04:10
Still an hour before ride gets here. Feeling ok...mild headache, mild chest pains, kinda out of it feeling really (somnalent is it?), tinnitus a lil all in all though ok.
did some bp readings about an hour ago:
Went from computer chair to couch (20 feet) sat down and took these two immediate readings:(148/83/90pulse) & (143/82/99pulse)
sat there 10 minutes in seated position then took these 2 readings:
(123/70/98pulse) & (126/72/95pulse)
seems when i do any kind, i mean any, physical activity or movement (climb stairs or even just walk) my heart rate goes up immediately and my bp goes into hypertensive...then sit down and it normalizes
but at night when i lay down then it gets nasty...then i get intense hypertensive sides and reading at almost 150 systolic. the nights seem like i have no control..once i lay down i am the mercy of my heart and it does what it wants...feverish like symptoms, hard beats, pains, etc...dont understand why really other than laying down allows blood to flow easier?
anyway...like i mentioned i will repost again but this is canada so i will need to wait in that bloody clinic for 2-3h to be seen for 3-5mins. hospitals? lol....10h sometimes, bloody hell.
myco
>
> > > >
> > >
> > WEDNESDAY 1:15PM
> >
> > Sorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
> >
> > Myco, this isn't funny, I'm serious now. NO WAITING UNTIL TOMMOROW You are in trouble, get help TODAY. If you don't see that you shouldn't be on Nardil. I'm dead serious here. Those symptoms, and the length of time, and the crap you've been adding, who knows whats happening BUT IT ISNT GOOD. Please, I urge you to go NOW.
> >
> > I'm sending this, hoping you'll get it now and do the right thing, then I'll be back. Myco, do it.
> >
> > Worried~Jade
> >
> >
> > I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.
>
> Myco,
>
> How bout givin us a shout here about how you are feeling. Hopefully you are at Docs or Hospital. Let me know or I swear I will contact everyone on this board to hassle you into it. Its because I care....tough love and all that. I care more that you can post here tommorow than how much you like me right at the moment. You're one of the few people who make me laugh, I'd like to hear later about your *ss hanging out of a hospital robe. The girls here (including me) would like details. Okay. Let me know what the plan is, K?
>
> ~Jade
>
>
Posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 14:36:00
In reply to Re: MYCO NEEDS SOME HELP/ SCOTT-D/R » JadeKelly, posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 14:34:09
im not sure if this is a bp issue or a regulation...like how the heart operates (is the same?)...dunno...i got only a C in anatomy lol studied mycology not medicine lol
> Still an hour before ride gets here. Feeling ok...mild headache, mild chest pains, kinda out of it feeling really (somnalent is it?), tinnitus a lil all in all though ok.
>
> did some bp readings about an hour ago:
> Went from computer chair to couch (20 feet) sat down and took these two immediate readings:
>
> (148/83/90pulse) & (143/82/99pulse)
>
> sat there 10 minutes in seated position then took these 2 readings:
>
> (123/70/98pulse) & (126/72/95pulse)
>
> seems when i do any kind, i mean any, physical activity or movement (climb stairs or even just walk) my heart rate goes up immediately and my bp goes into hypertensive...then sit down and it normalizes
>
> but at night when i lay down then it gets nasty...then i get intense hypertensive sides and reading at almost 150 systolic. the nights seem like i have no control..once i lay down i am the mercy of my heart and it does what it wants...feverish like symptoms, hard beats, pains, etc...dont understand why really other than laying down allows blood to flow easier?
>
> anyway...like i mentioned i will repost again but this is canada so i will need to wait in that bloody clinic for 2-3h to be seen for 3-5mins. hospitals? lol....10h sometimes, bloody hell.
>
> myco
>
>
>
> >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > WEDNESDAY 1:15PM
> > >
> > > Sorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
> > >
> > > Myco, this isn't funny, I'm serious now. NO WAITING UNTIL TOMMOROW You are in trouble, get help TODAY. If you don't see that you shouldn't be on Nardil. I'm dead serious here. Those symptoms, and the length of time, and the crap you've been adding, who knows whats happening BUT IT ISNT GOOD. Please, I urge you to go NOW.
> > >
> > > I'm sending this, hoping you'll get it now and do the right thing, then I'll be back. Myco, do it.
> > >
> > > Worried~Jade
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.
> >
> > Myco,
> >
> > How bout givin us a shout here about how you are feeling. Hopefully you are at Docs or Hospital. Let me know or I swear I will contact everyone on this board to hassle you into it. Its because I care....tough love and all that. I care more that you can post here tommorow than how much you like me right at the moment. You're one of the few people who make me laugh, I'd like to hear later about your *ss hanging out of a hospital robe. The girls here (including me) would like details. Okay. Let me know what the plan is, K?
> >
> > ~Jade
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 15:17:33
In reply to Re: MYCO NEEDS SOME HELP/ SCOTT-D/R » JadeKelly, posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 14:34:09
WEDNESDAY 3:30pm
> Still an hour before ride gets here. Feeling ok...mild headache, mild chest pains, kinda out of it feeling really (somnalent is it?), tinnitus a lil all in all though ok.
>
> did some bp readings about an hour ago:
> Went from computer chair to couch (20 feet) sat down and took these two immediate readings:
>
> (148/83/90pulse) & (143/82/99pulse)
>
> sat there 10 minutes in seated position then took these 2 readings:
>
> (123/70/98pulse) & (126/72/95pulse)
>
> seems when i do any kind, i mean any, physical activity or movement (climb stairs or even just walk) my heart rate goes up immediately and my bp goes into hypertensive...then sit down and it normalizes
>
> but at night when i lay down then it gets nasty...then i get intense hypertensive sides and reading at almost 150 systolic. the nights seem like i have no control..once i lay down i am the mercy of my heart and it does what it wants...feverish like symptoms, hard beats, pains, etc...dont understand why really other than laying down allows blood to flow easier?
>
> anyway...like i mentioned i will repost again but this is canada so i will need to wait in that bloody clinic for 2-3h to be seen for 3-5mins. hospitals? lol....10h sometimes, bloody hell.
>
> mycoHey myco, thanks for posting back. Don't let me down here, Okay? I didn't know you were in Canada but it doesn't matter, if thats what you have to do to be seen then so be it. Our ER's arent known for their timely exams either (US). So two things, you shouldn't be alone....and at least if something happens you'll be at the hospital.
Btw-When I had that early incident (from wrong med) I had zero symptoms that night. I woke up the next morn at 6am with the worst pulsing headache I've ever had, and BP of 190 and rising. I would not want to see what you would wake up to tommorow. Thanks for taking care of yourself!
Oh, if you can, write down all those sides you were having and for how many days. If they think it was just today, and tey get a few normal readings, they won't have a full picture. Your there, might as well tell them every thing and let them decide. Remember to ask ANYONE giving you any thing or treating you if they are aware that you are on an MAOI and make sure they know what it is. Ask whats being given to you. Do you have the med no-no list? Take that or google it and print it and take with you if you can. You could just print out all your relevant posts here and highlite your symtoms, what you've been adding, how many days, etc. What worries me is that you said you have d/c'd everything as of yesterday? day before? Even earlier I think. And for days you are having these symptoms. Something is wrong. I'm really glad you are going. Remember, don't be alone. Can someone come over till you go? Also, someone should stay at hospital, if you fall asleep or something someone needs to tell them you are on MAOI. My Doc let me back on Parnate after hospital visit. If you can figure out why this happened yours probably will too.
Thanks for doing this, your a good guy to not make me sit here and worry about you, lol. Okay, check in if your just waiting and give us another update, if not, you'll post when you get back?? No foolin around now, I'll be waitin to hear!!!!
~Jade (your worst nightmare) we want proof btw-bring your little digital camera or phone camera, or whatever you have, and have a nurse take a pic of you in your gown so we know you went, the girls are requesting a rear view, check your mail for where to send it. Its really cause we want proof! Honest! ;-) Good Luck!
>
>
>
> >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > WEDNESDAY 1:15PM
> > >
> > > Sorry this isnt proof read and i suck sometimes at spelling lol.
> > >
> > > Myco, this isn't funny, I'm serious now. NO WAITING UNTIL TOMMOROW You are in trouble, get help TODAY. If you don't see that you shouldn't be on Nardil. I'm dead serious here. Those symptoms, and the length of time, and the crap you've been adding, who knows whats happening BUT IT ISNT GOOD. Please, I urge you to go NOW.
> > >
> > > I'm sending this, hoping you'll get it now and do the right thing, then I'll be back. Myco, do it.
> > >
> > > Worried~Jade
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm starting to not feel good at the moment. The symptoms are starting, although mildly. Slight nausea, feel that fuzzy throbbing heading gearing up to get to start soon, chest pains...this one is interesting. its only on my left side, top rib cage area and hurt only when coughing (thats another issue - coughing with phelgm - not a flu) and also hurt mostly when I lay on my left side..breathing doesnt hurt my chest and moving doesnt just leaning or laying on it or coughing hard. Plus again with the weakness starting...I know i will be ok until about 4 or so then it will increase to the point of my sitting for the evening with little boughts of ok i feel fine then not. any kind of minor stressful activity i do...climb 3 stairs, hold my one leg off the floor....causes my heart to beat faster and my bp to go up. it very sensitive to anything i do at the moment...i think i could actually have a heart attack if i was to do cardio in the evening...id bet on it actually, or pretty close. I WILL be seein some form of dr tommorrow at the latest...perhaps evening tonight if i get tired of feeling this way.
> >
> > Myco,
> >
> > How bout givin us a shout here about how you are feeling. Hopefully you are at Docs or Hospital. Let me know or I swear I will contact everyone on this board to hassle you into it. Its because I care....tough love and all that. I care more that you can post here tommorow than how much you like me right at the moment. You're one of the few people who make me laugh, I'd like to hear later about your *ss hanging out of a hospital robe. The girls here (including me) would like details. Okay. Let me know what the plan is, K?
> >
> > ~Jade
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 20:02:09
In reply to Re: MYCO NEEDS SOME HELP/ SCOTT-D/R » myco, posted by JadeKelly on March 18, 2009, at 15:17:33
I'm ok...heavily sedated now. im going to lay down for a few hours before this sh*t makes me fall over. will be back tonight. update to come.
Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2009, at 20:47:52
In reply to im ok, need a rest, back in a few hours » JadeKelly, posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 20:02:09
Myco is lucky he gets to nap!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on March 19, 2009, at 1:07:49
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp? » JadeKelly, posted by myco on March 18, 2009, at 11:58:14
> These are things that I put into me on a daily basis to deal with anxiety or sleep:
>
> -nardil 75mg (morn, aft, night)
> -multivitamins (one of those big centrum things)
> -extra B's when needed
> -extra calcium and D when needed (usually everyday in morning)
> -Various types of herbal teas with no caffeine - most benign ones but i use one called AdrenaTea...contains rhodiola and licorice and a few other sedative type plants...never had a bad experience with this one. taken for many month everynight
> -occasional magnesium citrate capsules (300mg total) cuz it works on benzo sites to calm me
> -melatonin (0.3-1mg; literally; discontinued for now)
> -seroquel (25mg, discontinued for now)
> -doxylamine (last night 25mg, antihistamine for sleep)
> -"scullcap" extract - benzo-like herb. 3-4 nights a week
> -occasionally (no we get funky and stupid on my part perhaps) L-tyrosine (100mg - tiny dose) for stimulation. have used total of 6 times on nardil only. 5htp (20mg - tiny dose - follows the next day with tyrosine - 6 times total only). havent used either of these in weeks.
> -temazepam (30mg) once in a blue moon or when scullcap isnt cutting it. i dont like to overuse these guys. this actually surpressed my bp symptoms one night allowing me think it may be over then the next day nope still there
> -norflex (OTC muscle relaxant - occasionally - last time 5 days ago during that hell)
> -acetominophen - 400mg tops usually - as needed for those blasted throbbing headaches - minor relief
> -ibuprofin (400-800mg) occasional - prefer acet for head and ibu for body pain. used 2 days ago for that chest pain - didnt work.
>
> Thats been my ritual as of late...different stuff has occured in the near distant past but these are the closest ones.
>
> The green tea extract has something called EGCG in very high content (its healthy for people they say)....biochemically it is a natural decarboxylase inhibitor Jade...what that means is that when you take enough of it it prevent L-dopa from becoming dopamine and 5htp from becoming seratonin temporarily then you get a dopamine and seratonin surge. That dopamine will definately play on nardil dopamine effects so thats why i think (i almost am sure) green tea extract set off a chain of events leading to out of control bp...to much DA does that as I understand but not sure. Bloody stupid call on my part to take whole capsule and not break it open and take a part. Living (lol holding on anyway) and learning.
>
> Oh yes i forgot...one of my fav teas...green tea with ginseng...taken most days for a quick blast of stimulation. one cup (two most) brewed no more than 4 min - i am aware of potential problems of ginseng but thought was ok in tiny bits. Last time taken 4 days ago during hell week.
> Did I notice a diff? no...made me feel better on my feet actually...took away the sluggish no energy side effect of the bp issueDude......EGCG is something, but so is that other stuff. The thing with EGCG is that theres been a shittonne of research on it, so you actually can know what it does, even something like norflex,,an anticholinergic could be causing your symptoms. I'm willing to try lots of stuff, but i don't take stuff just without knowing what it does and what could go wrong...skullcap do you know everything it does? theres no way, it hasn't been studied much. Herbs with pharmaceuticals (or even just other high-dosed herbs) can f*ck you up. if there is an interaction, its likely from something you are still taking.
-d/r
Posted by Garnet71 on March 19, 2009, at 12:31:05
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by desolationrower on March 19, 2009, at 1:07:49
Myco--enter some of the stuff your taking into this chart. I put Ginseng in, and all kind of brief notations and findings come up, with references to journal articles.
http://www.personalhealthzone.com/herbsafety.html
Posted by Garnet71 on March 19, 2009, at 12:32:37
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by Garnet71 on March 19, 2009, at 12:31:05
Posted by Phillipa on March 19, 2009, at 19:22:36
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by Garnet71 on March 19, 2009, at 12:31:05
Myco not replying to e-mails either. Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on March 20, 2009, at 0:09:56
In reply to Re: To much DA in with total MAO inhibition = low bp?, posted by Phillipa on March 19, 2009, at 19:22:36
DAMN. What about Admin. Does anyone know if they can find out? Does he have a close friend on the board? Anybody?
~Jade
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