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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by tepi on February 9, 2009, at 23:02:23
In reply to Re: time for another MAOI ? » SLS, posted by tepi on February 9, 2009, at 22:28:18
Please Tell me something ! Im going off my meds
Dont know what to do anymore
Posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2009, at 23:33:33
In reply to Please Answer me babblers, posted by tepi on February 9, 2009, at 23:02:23
Tepi sweetie I'm here but you know I don't know MAOI's and I think Scott is sleeping now. Don't go off your meds give him some time to answer please? Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 6:27:31
In reply to Re: time for another MAOI ? » SLS, posted by tepi on February 9, 2009, at 22:28:18
> > Hi Tepi.
> >
> > Can you refresh my memory as to what you suffer from and which drug you found at least partially helpful in the past?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I really dont know what I suffer of. No doctor can tell me what I really have. Schizoaffective disorder maybe tell me ... I have big depression , big social phobia , maybe still psychosis
>
> The first drug that helped me was Zyprexa and Seroquel. Nardil is the one that has help me the most ScottI don't know how much help I can be. I am really not sure what to suggest. If Nardil was that much of a help to you, you might want to go ahead and combine it with one of the atypical neuroleptics. Zyprexa would probably be the most helpful, but if weight becomes an issue, perhaps you can switch over to Abilify. Even Seroquel, if that was good for you. I don't know for sure, but adding Klonopin to Nardil may serve some purpose if the social phobia does not resolve completely. Sometimes Neurontin is helpful for SP.
What sorts of things has your doctor mentioned?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 6:29:51
In reply to Please Answer me babblers, posted by tepi on February 9, 2009, at 23:02:23
>
> Please Tell me something ! Im going off my meds
> Dont know what to do anymoreWhen was the last time you did that? What were the results?
Sometimes, a new doctor will want to see what the patient is like without medication to get a better handle on symptoms and diagnosis. He can then build an entirely new regime.
- Scott
Posted by tepi on February 10, 2009, at 23:37:19
In reply to Re: time for another MAOI ? » tepi, posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 6:27:31
> >
> > I really dont know what I suffer of. No doctor can tell me what I really have. Schizoaffective disorder maybe tell me ... I have big depression , big social phobia , maybe still psychosis
> >
> > The first drug that helped me was Zyprexa and Seroquel. Nardil is the one that has help me the most Scott
>
> I don't know how much help I can be. I am really not sure what to suggest. If Nardil was that much of a help to you, you might want to go ahead and combine it with one of the atypical neuroleptics. Zyprexa would probably be the most helpful, but if weight becomes an issue, perhaps you can switch over to Abilify. Even Seroquel, if that was good for you. I don't know for sure, but adding Klonopin to Nardil may serve some purpose if the social phobia does not resolve completely. Sometimes Neurontin is helpful for SP.I combined Nardil with a bit of Seroquel . 50mg
but did not feel a change. I also used the klonopin and did not helped me. Xanax help me most
Scott>
> What sorts of things has your doctor mentioned?
>
>I dont have a Doctor anymore ! They dont know what to do with MAOI medication. They get afraid , some even dont know what a MAOI is
All the drugs I have added to Nardil has been suggested by me . I have once a Doc that wanted to give me and SSRI with Nardil , also SAM-E.
I told him this was not very safe and he just told me to left the MAOI , that it was my mind that was thinking that Nardilis the only med that can help me
I follow his advice and started to try new crap again . After 1 month I had a gun near my mouthI called and old doctor and he told me to take Risperdione ASAP , I suppose he wanted to sedate me , but I did not follow his instructions
he also told me to return Nardil and so I didSince then I have no attempted to leave Nardil again , and all the doctors here tell me to do that.
Its a little bit complicated to take this drugs here =(
Posted by tepi on February 10, 2009, at 23:50:51
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers » tepi, posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 6:29:51
> >
> > Please Tell me something ! Im going off my meds
> > Dont know what to do anymore
>
> When was the last time you did that? What were the results?
>
I have done it few times . The first time I did , I could stay with no med during 2 months !! wow
I thought I was cured but then everything returnOn the next trial I only last 15 days
>
> Sometimes, a new doctor will want to see what the patient is like without medication to get a better handle on symptoms and diagnosis. He can then build an entirely new regime.
>
>
> - ScottI have been 4 days with no med ( only a little bit of Xanax ) and I feel more normal . My mind is clearer ,no fear , no fog in my mind, not depressed
I know that when I start to feel bad Im gonna have to return Nardil and in this proces its when I feel very good again , but this lasts like 7 days .
would be the dopamine boost? ,rare dont you think Scott?
Im calm in this moment , just worried about next plans.
Dont feel pressured by me , just wanna hear
your opinion and from all the boardThank you
Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2009, at 0:27:03
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers » SLS, posted by tepi on February 10, 2009, at 23:50:51
Tepi right now you're not on an ad? And you're calm? But you say could return in a few day? Am I right? Is this a pattern. If so could you be bipolar? Just a thought til Scott gets back to you as he's so good with meds. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on February 11, 2009, at 7:10:30
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers » SLS, posted by tepi on February 10, 2009, at 23:50:51
Hi Tepi.
Your experience with coming off of Nardil and feeling better is not rare. It is called a rebound improvement. It can last 1-3 weeks. Some people actually become manic during this time for whom mania is not a regular feature of their disorder. I had this reaction myself.
The next time you come off of Nardil, try staying at 30mg and see what happens. You probably won't feel perfect, but you may retain enough of a partial improvement to justify continuing with it.
What's the deal with Parnate? How did you react to it?
Nardil + Zyprexa felt pretty good to me. I later changed over to Abilify, and felt even better. While it is true that Abilify can produce anxiety and insomnia in the beginning, these things can often disappear within 2 weeks. Now, I have no anxiety, no feelings of doom, and no suicidality.
Low-dose 25-100mg per day of Seroquel helps people with anxiety as taken 25mg PRN. If you take more than 100mg per day, you can become dysphoric and possibly have your anxiety get worse.
I saw a guy with tremendous anxiety react better to a drug called Phenergan (promethazine)than to Zyprexa.
- Scott
Posted by tepi on February 12, 2009, at 21:14:19
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers » tepi, posted by SLS on February 11, 2009, at 7:10:30
> Hi Tepi.
>
> Your experience with coming off of Nardil and feeling better is not rare. It is called a rebound improvement. It can last 1-3 weeks. Some people actually become manic during this time for whom mania is not a regular feature of their disorder. I had this reaction myself.
>Yes Yes , thats it !
> The next time you come off of Nardi
l, try staying at 30mg and see what happens. You probably won't feel perfect, but you may retain enough of a partial improvement to justify continuing with it.
>
mmm I already tryed this scott , but it did not worked =(
> What's the deal with Parnate? How did you react to it?
>
I havent tried Parnate ,Scot , ,I say so because I only took it for 3 days
>
>
> - Scott
>The good feeling is gone, I have started to get depressed and sacary, so this time the boost lasted only 7 days.
I dont care I gonna see what happen tomorrow.
Oh god when is this gonna finish
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2009, at 0:12:48
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - Effect is gone, posted by tepi on February 12, 2009, at 21:14:19
Tepi we're here. Late on East Coast. You will make it. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on February 13, 2009, at 6:43:49
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - Effect is gone, posted by tepi on February 12, 2009, at 21:14:19
What does your doctor say about all of this?
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 10:45:39
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - Effect is gone » tepi, posted by SLS on February 13, 2009, at 6:43:49
> What does your doctor say about all of this?
>
>
> - ScottScott,
A friend of mine has that same "mania" when he ubruptly stops his Parnate.
Yesterday I was really sick and slept all day not meaning to.
For the first time I missed not only my morning dose of Parnate, but my afternoon dose as well. I woke up at 1:00am this morning and have never been so terrified that I can remember. I felt like I was awake but in a nightmare. I took my Parnate, no ritalin, and it shortly subsided. What do you make of that? My PDoc is away this weekend so I don't want to page him. Ever heard of that reaction?~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 10:52:03
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - Effect is gone, posted by tepi on February 12, 2009, at 21:14:19
Hi Tepi,
I just left a message for Scott above this, obviously this doesn't happen to you you but PLEASE keep your meds, just in case you should have a bad reaction at any time.
Also, Scott is wondering, as am I, what does your current PDoc say? Have you given him all the details?
~jade
Posted by SLS on February 14, 2009, at 11:34:11
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - Effect is gone » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 10:45:39
> > What does your doctor say about all of this?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott,
>
> A friend of mine has that same "mania" when he ubruptly stops his Parnate.
>
> Yesterday I was really sick and slept all day not meaning to.
> For the first time I missed not only my morning dose of Parnate, but my afternoon dose as well. I woke up at 1:00am this morning and have never been so terrified that I can remember. I felt like I was awake but in a nightmare. I took my Parnate, no ritalin, and it shortly subsided. What do you make of that? My PDoc is away this weekend so I don't want to page him. Ever heard of that reaction?
>
> ~JadeThat is what is known as REM rebound, and is very common when one stops taking Parnate. Usually, Parnate inhibits REM sleep, the predominant stage for dreaming. For most people, they don't dream at all on Parnate. Now, when you take away the Parnate, REM sleep emerges in an exaggerated form, leading to vivid dreams and nightmares.
You are perfectly normal (within reason, anyway).
:-)
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 16:13:05
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - Effect is gone » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on February 14, 2009, at 11:34:11
> > > What does your doctor say about all of this?
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > A friend of mine has that same "mania" when he ubruptly stops his Parnate.
> >
> > Yesterday I was really sick and slept all day not meaning to.
> > For the first time I missed not only my morning dose of Parnate, but my afternoon dose as well. I woke up at 1:00am this morning and have never been so terrified that I can remember. I felt like I was awake but in a nightmare. I took my Parnate, no ritalin, and it shortly subsided. What do you make of that? My PDoc is away this weekend so I don't want to page him. Ever heard of that reaction?
> >
> > ~Jade
>
> That is what is known as REM rebound, and is very common when one stops taking Parnate. Usually, Parnate inhibits REM sleep, the predominant stage for dreaming. For most people, they don't dream at all on Parnate. Now, when you take away the Parnate, REM sleep emerges in an exaggerated form, leading to vivid dreams and nightmares.
>
> You are perfectly normal (within reason, anyway).
>
> :-)
>
>
> - ScottDarn. Perfectly normal, how boring. I think I like the "within reason, anyway" better ;-)
The reason I'm posting you again, I understand the REM sleep and nightmares. But I was in my kitchen at 1:00am wide awake, terrified. Not of things that go bump in the night. Just terrified of my life. I'm 46 and have never felt so alone and scared. I was afraid to call anyone cause I knew I'd be going to the hospital. Thats how bad it was. I pretty quickly realized what it might be and took 40mg Parnate, and within a short time I was alot better. Still a little spooked, if I never feel that way again for the rest of my life it'll be too soon.Main thing I'd like to know is about the being wide awake and not coming out of that terrified feeling. I'm on 80mg btw.
Why do other people feel "happy" when they disconinue? Did I just hit the wrong time of day? Like with Tepi, and my friend he's on Parnate, they don't have it at night. So why wouldn't they suffer what I did during sleep?
PS- I was really happy to not dream anymore because they are all nightmares. Maybe they built up and exploded into my awake state.
Thanks,
~Jade
Posted by SLS on February 14, 2009, at 18:43:34
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - SCOTT, posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 16:13:05
> > > > What does your doctor say about all of this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Scott,
> > >
> > > A friend of mine has that same "mania" when he ubruptly stops his Parnate.
> > >
> > > Yesterday I was really sick and slept all day not meaning to.
> > > For the first time I missed not only my morning dose of Parnate, but my afternoon dose as well. I woke up at 1:00am this morning and have never been so terrified that I can remember. I felt like I was awake but in a nightmare. I took my Parnate, no ritalin, and it shortly subsided. What do you make of that? My PDoc is away this weekend so I don't want to page him. Ever heard of that reaction?
> > >
> > > ~Jade
> >
> > That is what is known as REM rebound, and is very common when one stops taking Parnate. Usually, Parnate inhibits REM sleep, the predominant stage for dreaming. For most people, they don't dream at all on Parnate. Now, when you take away the Parnate, REM sleep emerges in an exaggerated form, leading to vivid dreams and nightmares.
> >
> > You are perfectly normal (within reason, anyway).
> >
> > :-)
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Darn. Perfectly normal, how boring. I think I like the "within reason, anyway" better ;-)
> The reason I'm posting you again, I understand the REM sleep and nightmares. But I was in my kitchen at 1:00am wide awake, terrified. Not of things that go bump in the night. Just terrified of my life. I'm 46 and have never felt so alone and scared. I was afraid to call anyone cause I knew I'd be going to the hospital. Thats how bad it was. I pretty quickly realized what it might be and took 40mg Parnate, and within a short time I was alot better. Still a little spooked, if I never feel that way again for the rest of my life it'll be too soon.
>
> Main thing I'd like to know is about the being wide awake and not coming out of that terrified feeling. I'm on 80mg btw.
>
> Why do other people feel "happy" when they disconinue? Did I just hit the wrong time of day? Like with Tepi, and my friend he's on Parnate, they don't have it at night. So why wouldn't they suffer what I did during sleep?
>
> PS- I was really happy to not dream anymore because they are all nightmares. Maybe they built up and exploded into my awake state.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> ~JadeThere is something that is called withdrawal rebound depressive symptomology. Here, an abrupt falling off of Parnate intake can lead to a brief relapse of intense proportions. This can include anxiety, feelings of doom, generalized fear, sweating, heart palpitations, hand tremors, changes in pupil diameter, dry mouth, and teeth clenching. This is very likely what happened to you.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 19:16:52
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on February 14, 2009, at 18:43:34
> > > > > What does your doctor say about all of this?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Scott
> > > >
> > > > Scott,
> > > >
> > > > A friend of mine has that same "mania" when he ubruptly stops his Parnate.
> > > >
> > > > Yesterday I was really sick and slept all day not meaning to.
> > > > For the first time I missed not only my morning dose of Parnate, but my afternoon dose as well. I woke up at 1:00am this morning and have never been so terrified that I can remember. I felt like I was awake but in a nightmare. I took my Parnate, no ritalin, and it shortly subsided. What do you make of that? My PDoc is away this weekend so I don't want to page him. Ever heard of that reaction?
> > > >
> > > > ~Jade
> > >
> > > That is what is known as REM rebound, and is very common when one stops taking Parnate. Usually, Parnate inhibits REM sleep, the predominant stage for dreaming. For most people, they don't dream at all on Parnate. Now, when you take away the Parnate, REM sleep emerges in an exaggerated form, leading to vivid dreams and nightmares.
> > >
> > > You are perfectly normal (within reason, anyway).
> > >
> > > :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Darn. Perfectly normal, how boring. I think I like the "within reason, anyway" better ;-)
> > The reason I'm posting you again, I understand the REM sleep and nightmares. But I was in my kitchen at 1:00am wide awake, terrified. Not of things that go bump in the night. Just terrified of my life. I'm 46 and have never felt so alone and scared. I was afraid to call anyone cause I knew I'd be going to the hospital. Thats how bad it was. I pretty quickly realized what it might be and took 40mg Parnate, and within a short time I was alot better. Still a little spooked, if I never feel that way again for the rest of my life it'll be too soon.
> >
> > Main thing I'd like to know is about the being wide awake and not coming out of that terrified feeling. I'm on 80mg btw.
> >
> > Why do other people feel "happy" when they disconinue? Did I just hit the wrong time of day? Like with Tepi, and my friend he's on Parnate, they don't have it at night. So why wouldn't they suffer what I did during sleep?
> >
> > PS- I was really happy to not dream anymore because they are all nightmares. Maybe they built up and exploded into my awake state.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > ~Jade
>
> There is something that is called withdrawal rebound depressive symptomology. Here, an abrupt falling off of Parnate intake can lead to a brief relapse of intense proportions. This can include anxiety, feelings of doom, generalized fear, sweating, heart palpitations, hand tremors, changes in pupil diameter, dry mouth, and teeth clenching. This is very likely what happened to you.
>
>
> - ScottYes, thats it. Right down to the sweating. Except these feelings I had were almost unbearable.Exponentially worse than I've ever felt. I've never felt that way even in my darkest hour. I'm jealous of the others who have a good time when they foget their meds. I will talk to Pdoc. when he gets back next week.
Thanks for the peace of mind-I was feeling a little sketchy today not understanding what happened. Now I feel normal, sorta.
~Jade
Posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2009, at 20:13:46
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - SCOTT » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 19:16:52
Seriously sorry that happened to you. Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 20:20:09
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - SCOTT » JadeKelly, posted by Phillipa on February 14, 2009, at 20:13:46
> Seriously sorry that happened to you. Phillipa
Thanks, it wasn't a good time ;-(
~Jade
Posted by garnet71 on February 15, 2009, at 20:07:21
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - SCOTT, posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 20:20:09
Jade,
I've sent you a couple of emails...but haven't heard back...I hope you are back on track. Please let us know that you are ok.((((Jade)))))
from one gem to another :)
Posted by desolationrower on February 17, 2009, at 4:10:06
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - Effect is gone » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on February 14, 2009, at 10:45:39
whiel on parnate, a few times i didn't take any hypnotics beofre bed when i wasn't tired. i layed in bed and slowly faded into hypnagogic horror. like horror movies, not the kind in a house where the guy in a mask kills the non-virgin and the guy who says 'i'm going to go check the door' and stuff but the kind with wierd monsters and torture. then i'd wake up, because thats the only wayt omake it stop. and i never have nightmares.
-d/r
Posted by desolationrower on February 17, 2009, at 4:12:08
In reply to Re: time for another MAOI ? » tepi, posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 6:27:31
HEy tepi, if you choose a neuroleptic, i'd try amisulpride/sulpride. with a tiny amount of risperidone.
just as effective (actually i'd guess more so) and it won't make you fat.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on February 17, 2009, at 16:32:24
In reply to Re: Please Answer me babblers - Effect is gone, posted by desolationrower on February 17, 2009, at 4:10:06
> whiel on parnate, a few times i didn't take any hypnotics beofre bed when i wasn't tired. i layed in bed and slowly faded into hypnagogic horror. like horror movies, not the kind in a house where the guy in a mask kills the non-virgin and the guy who says 'i'm going to go check the door' and stuff but the kind with wierd monsters and torture. then i'd wake up, because thats the only wayt omake it stop. and i never have nightmares.
>
> -d/rBut it went away as soon as you woke up?
This stayed with me for about 20-30 minutes I geuss cause it didn't leave until the Parnate kicked in. Were you spooked after? This was like a bad trip X 10. A person would not last very long in that state. Scared the s*it out of me.
Posted by SLS on February 18, 2009, at 5:55:49
In reply to Re: time for another MAOI ?, posted by desolationrower on February 17, 2009, at 4:12:08
> HEy tepi, if you choose a neuroleptic, i'd try amisulpride/sulpride. with a tiny amount of risperidone.
>
> just as effective (actually i'd guess more so) and it won't make you fat.
>
> -d/r
Why did you choose risperidone?Interestingly, I have seen a 50-100mg dose of Seroquel have an antidepressant and energizing effect when added to a 2-3mg dose of Risperdal. When this person discontinued the Risperdal, she needed 800mg of Seroquel to reproduce the robust improvements.
- Scott
Posted by desolationrower on February 20, 2009, at 0:59:31
In reply to Re: time for another MAOI ? » desolationrower, posted by SLS on February 18, 2009, at 5:55:49
> > HEy tepi, if you choose a neuroleptic, i'd try amisulpride/sulpride. with a tiny amount of risperidone.
> >
> > just as effective (actually i'd guess more so) and it won't make you fat.
> >
> > -d/r
>
>
> Why did you choose risperidone?
>
> Interestingly, I have seen a 50-100mg dose of Seroquel have an antidepressant and energizing effect when added to a 2-3mg dose of Risperdal. When this person discontinued the Risperdal, she needed 800mg of Seroquel to reproduce the robust improvements.
>
>
> - Scott
>i think the h5t2a antagonism is a good idea, especially if you're going to be on an antipsychotic, as it can reduce chance of some of the side effects, and the 5ht2 antagonist=atypicality thing is most applicable to low levels of d2 antagonism where it enhances frontal DA. risperdal is one of the most selective and inexpensive ones. theres other drugs that might work synergystically with it, but a serotonin antagonist could lower eps risk.
-d/r
This is the end of the thread.
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