![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on December 27, 2008, at 16:38:37
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages., posted by SLS on December 27, 2008, at 16:35:54
This should work:
http://www.slschofield.com/medicine/parnate_high_dosage.doc
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on December 27, 2008, at 21:09:08
In reply to Click here! - Sorry..., posted by SLS on December 27, 2008, at 16:38:37
Doesn't parnate have some effects on monoamine reuptake as well as monoamine oxidase inhibition?
Perhaps these become more pronounced at higher doses.
Linkadge
Posted by JadeKelly on December 27, 2008, at 23:38:40
In reply to Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages., posted by SLS on December 27, 2008, at 16:34:43
> I'm posting a small collection of literature that can be used to justify the usage of high dosages of Parnate (tranylcypromine). It should help provide some rationale for using dosages of Parnate up to 150mg. While I don't expect every physician to accept this as evidence that 150mg is safe, I am hoping that it will change the perception of some that 30mg is a high enough dosage to produce results. In my opinion, the effective dosage range for Parnate is really 40-80mg.
>
> I hope this posting helps.
>
>
> www.slschofield.com/medicine/parnate_high_dosage.doc
>
>
> - ScottScott,
Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
Not sure if you got my earlier message mixed in with all the Captain/SLS/DR stuff. A sincere Thank You for your informative posts and most importantly, "don't give up" you are 1 of 3 or so that convinced me to keep going (11 weeks), even when my family was telling me to abort and move on, even when s/e's really sucked. I made it!! Thanks again, keep doing what you do!
~Jade
PS~hope your literature got you what you needed from insurance.
Posted by shasling on December 28, 2008, at 1:04:15
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry..., posted by linkadge on December 27, 2008, at 21:09:08
Sorry I can't be sure if it does or not on MAO inhibition, however, Parnate is known to upregulate Gaba B receptors
"Tranylcypromine use increases trace amines, modulates phospholipid metabolism and up-regulates GABA(B) receptors."
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 28, 2008, at 8:06:05
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on December 27, 2008, at 23:38:40
> Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
>
> Not sure if you got my earlier message mixed in with all the Captain/SLS/DR stuff. A sincere Thank You for your informative posts and most importantly, "don't give up" you are 1 of 3 or so that convinced me to keep going (11 weeks), even when my family was telling me to abort and move on, even when s/e's really sucked. I made it!! Thanks again, keep doing what you do!
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS~hope your literature got you what you needed from insurance.
>Hi Everyone!
I totally agree with JadeKelly and SLS!!! I read all that's studies before, they are easy to find on the pubmed website as well os others...but GOOD LUCK to find a GOOD psychiatrist of doctor to precribe to you a dose higher than 90mg!!! I don'T know how they work in the USA for insurance, but if you get a more high dose than the FDA recommandation, you have to pay the extra pills??? In Canada, when your are unemployed like I am right now (on the disease program), you don't pay for your pills but they have to be on the list of the free charge products...since old MAOI's are very cheap, 18$ for 30 co of 10mg...I don't think to have to pay more for my treatment will be an obstacle for me...I hope it was not one for you Scoot...My family doctor is stick to the 60mg/day maximum and the new psychiatrist I got 1 1/2 months ago is stick to the 30mg/day...nothing more...
A lot of studies also show that all the patients with anxious problems, especially social phobia, need a more high dose than the regular one prescribe for the depression, even for the old MAOI's...My family doctor his award of this but in my case, I react a lot to all the medications we try together, so now he have a more slow approach with me , but he is definitly more open than the new psychiatrist I got with is low 30mg/day dose...
What I will do is print that studies and bring them to my family doctor, my next appointment with him is the 7th january, I have to have my prescription refill today at the drugstore, I will have 30co of 10mg...I want to up the dosage maybe tuesday or thursday, since i'm on 30mg since more than 1 week now...So when I will see him, I will be already at 40mg, even if i'm suppose to be at 20mg in reallity...and I will ask a new prescription at 60mg/day, just to be sure I can reach that amount...He will say yes for sure...he is very open minded...
I see my psychiatrist the 14th january. I will not tell him about the new prescription I got from my family doctor...
To be honest, I have a very good family doctor, it's the best in the city where I live in that field... I had to ask to see a psychiatrist at the psychiatrict hospital just to be able to have access to a good "free" therapy for anxious problem, and I wait more than 9 months for this...
So I will continue to see my psychiatrist, because if I told him that I don't want to continue with him, I lost my place at the psychiatrist hospital, they will give it to someone else, and the they will have the right to cancel the new therapy I just start 3 weeks ago...
So, I think kepping my good family doctor and the psychiatrist at the same time is a good approach, maybe I will be able to reach a more high dose with the 2 together without telling the psychiatrist...maybe it's not ok to act like this, but I really want to make a good try of the Parnate, and since a lot of people told me that I will need more than the regular 60mg/day to acheive a remission or at least to control my social phobia , I don't want to miss my chance.
I hope they are not members of this forum and they will not read that!!! hahaha ;-)
Well, another day begin...I sleep more last night, but in 2 parts...wake up in the middle of the night as usual but by a miracle, I Was able to return in my bed after my cigarette...SO I feel lucky!!! lol
Have a good day and take care of you ;-)
Sincerely,
Vincent ;-)
PS: Thanks again Scoot for the post of the studies...
Posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 10:33:07
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on December 28, 2008, at 8:06:05
>
> > Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
> >
> > Not sure if you got my earlier message mixed in with all the Captain/SLS/DR stuff. A sincere Thank You for your informative posts and most importantly, "don't give up" you are 1 of 3 or so that convinced me to keep going (11 weeks), even when my family was telling me to abort and move on, even when s/e's really sucked. I made it!! Thanks again, keep doing what you do!
> >
> > ~Jade
> >
> > PS~hope your literature got you what you needed from insurance.
> >
>
> Hi Everyone!
> I totally agree with JadeKelly and SLS!!! I read all that's studies before, they are easy to find on the pubmed website as well os others...but GOOD LUCK to find a GOOD psychiatrist of doctor to precribe to you a dose higher than 90mg!!! I don'T know how they work in the USA for insurance, but if you get a more high dose than the FDA recommandation, you have to pay the extra pills??? In Canada, when your are unemployed like I am right now (on the disease program), you don't pay for your pills but they have to be on the list of the free charge products...since old MAOI's are very cheap, 18$ for 30 co of 10mg...I don't think to have to pay more for my treatment will be an obstacle for me...I hope it was not one for you Scoot...
>
> My family doctor is stick to the 60mg/day maximum and the new psychiatrist I got 1 1/2 months ago is stick to the 30mg/day...nothing more...
>
> A lot of studies also show that all the patients with anxious problems, especially social phobia, need a more high dose than the regular one prescribe for the depression, even for the old MAOI's...My family doctor his award of this but in my case, I react a lot to all the medications we try together, so now he have a more slow approach with me , but he is definitly more open than the new psychiatrist I got with is low 30mg/day dose...
>
> What I will do is print that studies and bring them to my family doctor, my next appointment with him is the 7th january, I have to have my prescription refill today at the drugstore, I will have 30co of 10mg...I want to up the dosage maybe tuesday or thursday, since i'm on 30mg since more than 1 week now...So when I will see him, I will be already at 40mg, even if i'm suppose to be at 20mg in reallity...and I will ask a new prescription at 60mg/day, just to be sure I can reach that amount...He will say yes for sure...he is very open minded...
>
> I see my psychiatrist the 14th january. I will not tell him about the new prescription I got from my family doctor...
>
> To be honest, I have a very good family doctor, it's the best in the city where I live in that field... I had to ask to see a psychiatrist at the psychiatrict hospital just to be able to have access to a good "free" therapy for anxious problem, and I wait more than 9 months for this...
>
> So I will continue to see my psychiatrist, because if I told him that I don't want to continue with him, I lost my place at the psychiatrist hospital, they will give it to someone else, and the they will have the right to cancel the new therapy I just start 3 weeks ago...
>
> So, I think kepping my good family doctor and the psychiatrist at the same time is a good approach, maybe I will be able to reach a more high dose with the 2 together without telling the psychiatrist...maybe it's not ok to act like this, but I really want to make a good try of the Parnate, and since a lot of people told me that I will need more than the regular 60mg/day to acheive a remission or at least to control my social phobia , I don't want to miss my chance.
>
> I hope they are not members of this forum and they will not read that!!! hahaha ;-)
>
> Well, another day begin...I sleep more last night, but in 2 parts...wake up in the middle of the night as usual but by a miracle, I Was able to return in my bed after my cigarette...SO I feel lucky!!! lol
>
> Have a good day and take care of you ;-)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Vincent ;-)
>
> PS: Thanks again Scoot for the post of the studies...Hey Vincent!
I haven't talked to you for a while. Hope you had a good holiday! It stinks the hoops we have to jump thru to get the medications we NEED. Normally I would not do things behind my Docs back but what chance would you have at 30 mg? Just make sure you don't get them filled at the same pharmacy, haha. Also you should stay at each dose for a little while. I was at 30mg for 6 weeks, but that was cause I had a problem with my BP. It took me 10 weeks to get to remission (60mg day) and my only real side effect was disruption in sleep, either insomnia, or couldn't get out of bed. Oh, be careful with low BP, I think you had this problem already, I came really close to fainting a few times. You will probably lose weight. So if you don't work, then you should be able to do this. You have family at home, right? Don't Quit! Even if you feel like it. I have never responded to any other A/D.
Good Luck!
~Jade
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2008, at 10:46:45
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 10:33:07
Jade and congratulations!!!!! Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 11:20:36
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » JadeKelly, posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2008, at 10:46:45
Posted by uncouth on December 28, 2008, at 11:36:39
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages., posted by SLS on December 27, 2008, at 16:35:54
SPeaking of higher-dose TCP treatment, in the experience of those who have taken TCP at what point (dose or side effect wise) did you notice the social phobia and the stimulatory effects actually come online. Not just talking about sleep disturbance, but I'm considering going off of TCP because while it has really helped my mood, it hasn't done anything for my ADHD -- certainly not as much as even a low (10 or 15mg) dose of Focalin (which is equivalent to a daily dose of 20 - 30mg of Ritalin).
And i know my pdoc won't let me take parnate with a stim.
So much of my misery and depression is due to my incredible feeling of wasting time and not getting things done, so I think once that problem is solved it will be the best "natural" A/D out there for me, so I want to go back on a stim UNLESS TCP can eventually at some dose do that for me.
Any help here? Highest i've been on is 80mg, and even at that dose, even with splitting it into 3 times a day dosing, I get hypertension after each dose, so im a bit scared of going higher.
Thanks so much for your help.
Uncouth
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 28, 2008, at 11:36:58
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 10:33:07
> Hey Vincent!
>
> I haven't talked to you for a while. Hope you had a good holiday! It stinks the hoops we have to jump thru to get the medications we NEED. Normally I would not do things behind my Docs back but what chance would you have at 30 mg? Just make sure you don't get them filled at the same pharmacy, haha. Also you should stay at each dose for a little while. I was at 30mg for 6 weeks, but that was cause I had a problem with my BP. It took me 10 weeks to get to remission (60mg day) and my only real side effect was disruption in sleep, either insomnia, or couldn't get out of bed. Oh, be careful with low BP, I think you had this problem already, I came really close to fainting a few times. You will probably lose weight. So if you don't work, then you should be able to do this. You have family at home, right? Don't Quit! Even if you feel like it. I have never responded to any other A/D.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> ~JadeHi Jade,
Thanks to take some of your times to answer to me, that's really appreciate ;-)
I also don't like the idea to play in the back of my psychiatrist, but with time we learn to find some tricks to help us to have what we want. The fact that I prefer my family doctor is because he is very open minded, I meet him every month or so, sometimes I bring papers about drugs I found on the internet or in books, and I ask him what he think about this or thas idea, if it will help me, things like that...We try several drugs that come directly from my research (Lyrica, Gabapentin, Topamax, Nardil...), it was not his idea...it was all mines...So it's why I feel more free with him to try what I want and to explore all the possibilities I can have with one medecine. He also don't say bad comments about drugs like benzodiazepines and the fact that if I continue to take them I will never recover from my social phobia...that what my psychiatrist told me the last time I see him...I know that i'm addicted to them but he don't have to remind me that I will have to quit them as soon as I will be stable on the Parnate...he put too much pressure and stress on me by telling me this. I try severals times to stop them but that's not the time for now... Anyway the Parnate seem to be effective on that field, I take 5mg less of valium by day (15mg/day, before 20mg/day) since i'm on 30mg of Parnate.Yeah, sadly, with MAOI's, blood pressure is a bad issue, you know what I mean...my Nardil experience back in 2007 was desastrous, my doctor said for 3 months don't give up, and I give up at 90mg/day, I was so tired....but at the time, he was not aware about the Florinef drug and the fact that this drug can control the hypotension and orthostatic problems...
My blood pressure return to the normal now. I had a lot of orthostatic hypotension the 24 december, it's why I wrote a message here, to find some help, and I find the answer I wanted...I continue to experience a little bit of orthostatic hypotension sometimes...but I get use to it now and that's less bad than on the Nardil...it'S on and off...
Yeah I experience some low blood pressure sometimes, but just when I climb the stairs...and that's strange cause it's not considering like orthostatic hypotension, orthostatic hypotension is suppose to happen when you are sit down and you decide to get up of a chair or the bed or things like that...Anwyay, I monitor my blood pressure several times by day with my own machine, and I know what I do...
I also experience insomnia at night, like you, and stranglely, I can sleep at day time...I sleep more well at day time...but I was like this before the Parnate, so I don'T know if it come from it or not. Fatigue is also a lot present, but I was like this before...I don't think Parnate deteriorate my state on this 2 sides...it'S just the same...no improve...My motivation level is low also, but I was already like this before...
For my blood pressure, I decide to begin again to take the "Florinef" pills, to help me with the orthostatic hypotension problem and to prevent it, and for the high blood pressure, I always have with me the "Antidote"...Neftidine or a name like this, I never remember it...but it's a yellow pill, with liquid inside in a very hard coating, I think it's a slow release...10mg...but my family doctor said it's perfect and if my blood pressure go up to 180/90...I can take one without any problem and without having to go to the hospital, he said to just take my blood pressure more often if I do a hypertension crisis and take one Nefidine pill...
You know, I don't want to stay at 30mg for 6 weeks like you...I know myself, and I know I need more high dose to feel some relief, I don't want to jump to 60mg in 2 weeks, I just want to increase it at least at 40mg and stay at this point for maybe 2 weeks, to see what happen, if I don't do more orthostatic hypotension and low blood pressure (anyway Florinef will take care if it by recycling the salt inside my body and make my blood pressure more high like this), I will continue a little bit at this state and see what happen, if I don'T improve more, I will jump to the 50mg...and do the same...I know MAOI's take some times to be effective, more than newer drugs...but I don't think 40mg, 50 or 60mg it's an abuse of this substance...
My goal is not to become a zombie or to have more side effects than good effects...I just want to feel normal again and be able to go outside my house without freaking out about the others people I will have to meet or see...I want a "normal" life again and be able to continue the university, have a job and be someone who is fonctionnal in the life...
Hummm, for now, I return live with my mom...Thanks god, she's was very nice and understing with me...Before, I was leaving in another city for studying at the university...it was a big city and at the end I was unable to take the subway or go outside my appartement, and I had no friend at all... so when I begin to feel worst and worst, after some years of relief with social phobia and anxiety, I decide to return to the city where I came from and be near my familly, to have more support...I stop school, ask for a suspension of my folder, and for now I have no plan for the future, except to recover from this hard period I have...
And yeah, i'm also like you...I never answer to an AD before...I just had a small relief at the begining of my Rivotril treatment, but I had to augment my dosage regulary...to the point of no return...From 19 to 24 yo, I had some small improve on Paxil, it was the newer drug at the time...but I think it was not working at all, the therapy I do at the time help me more...with time I can say that Paxil was innefective...I just gain a lot of weight on it... All the others newer AD never help also, always feeling worst after trying them, especially Effexor and Cipralex (LExapro)...Zoloft do nothing at all at the highest dose and Luvox also...PRozac make me more anxious, Remeron make me gain weight and sleep more but that's it, Celexa do nothing at all, even at 60mg/day...Elavil and Impramine do nothing also...Wellbutrin make me feel anxious a lot...Anticonvulsives drugs do nothing (Gabapentin- Neurotin, Lyrica, Topamax...I had electric shock sensation on them), Antipsychotics drugs do nothing, it was ridiculous and I had terrible hands shaking on them (Risperdal, Zyprexa, Seroquel...), and the list goes on..I try others things as well but don't remember all of them...Stimulants was helping with the fatigue but not with the anxiety...(Ritalin) ...so I think I never responded to a drug at all...Nardil improve me a little bit but the orthostatic hypotension was too hard to support...it help me to reduce my Rivotril intake at the time...and I was able to switch from the Rivotril to Valium (less addictive benzo)...but for the social anxiety I don't improve, my general anxiety improve a little bit on it... The only 2 drugs I don't try for now are Cymlabta and MAnerix (you don'T have it in the USA I think....it'S a reversible MAOI's of type A, not very effective for social phobia aparrently, somes studies show it was effective, others not...it's why the FDA never approve it in the USA) so i'm not interrested at all...Cymbalta is nothing more than another effexor type drug...so no thanks...
Well, that's was another chapter of my books!!! Sorry it was long again...
Have a nice day and don'T give up, i'm very happy for you that the Parnate finally work !!! That's a great news!!!
Bye!
Vince ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 12:42:41
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages., posted by uncouth on December 28, 2008, at 11:36:39
> SPeaking of higher-dose TCP treatment, in the experience of those who have taken TCP at what point (dose or side effect wise) did you notice the social phobia and the stimulatory effects actually come online. Not just talking about sleep disturbance, but I'm considering going off of TCP because while it has really helped my mood, it hasn't done anything for my ADHD -- certainly not as much as even a low (10 or 15mg) dose of Focalin (which is equivalent to a daily dose of 20 - 30mg of Ritalin).
>
> And i know my pdoc won't let me take parnate with a stim.
>
> So much of my misery and depression is due to my incredible feeling of wasting time and not getting things done, so I think once that problem is solved it will be the best "natural" A/D out there for me, so I want to go back on a stim UNLESS TCP can eventually at some dose do that for me.
>
> Any help here? Highest i've been on is 80mg, and even at that dose, even with splitting it into 3 times a day dosing, I get hypertension after each dose, so im a bit scared of going higher.
>
> Thanks so much for your help.
> UncouthHi Uncouth,
That would be a shame if you had to d/c Parnate now. I was on Parnate (generic) for 10 weeks when suddenly, not over days, my social phobia was gone, my depression gone, agoraphobia gone. As for ADD or cognitive symptoms, I can only tell you that I took Ritalin for 12 years for ADD, went from 5mg 3xday, after 12 years ended at 5mg 5xday. I had no w/d but slight fatigue. Its unclear why my cognitive abilities/ADD symptoms are still present to a small degree even after remission. I will tell you that I started 5mg ritalin day before my remission, lunchtime. Felt like a weak cup of coffee. Next day, I was in full remission at lunchtime after taking 30mg Prnate + 5mg Rit. that morn. (I take 30mgP in morn/30mgP lunch/5mgR morn) I have been up and running ever since. Not mania, just normal me.
I was interested in how 5mg Rit could possibly make the difference and after some research found that the MAOI potentiates the ritalin (even that small amt apparently) not the other way around. I'm still a little slow cognitively and physically but I blame that on the months of TR/MDD, lethargy, apathy, laying in bed and so on. Naturally, it will take a little time to get back to normal. It gets a little better every day. I've had several parties, decorated the house for Christmas, had relatives for the Holidays, been to several dinner parties, have no phobia of going out all. I just can't pull up a word or name as fast as I used to, but again, its coming back. I wouldn't trade the way I feel for any ADD med and I was on one for a long time. I only need 1/5 what I was taking before. So, my advise if you want it, would be to find a way to add low dose ritalin (5mg day) and lower your Parnate to 60mg a day. You'll have to use your imagination or find a MAOI savvy Doc, I'm looking for a psychopharmacologist-sp? I read in one of Scott's documents that thats your best shot for long term treatment. Again, I hope you give this a try. I was saying I thought it was "improving my mood", thats not the response. Its sudden and its surpising, at least for me it was.
Good Luck,
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 12:48:34
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on December 28, 2008, at 11:36:58
Hi again Vince!
I have some things I want to say regarding your post that I hope will help you but I'll need more time. So keep on the Parnate, go slow, stay at each new dose at least two weeks, don't go over 60mg for now. I'll post back today I hope!
~Jade
Posted by Vincent_QC on December 29, 2008, at 10:31:28
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 12:48:34
> Hi again Vince!
>
> I have some things I want to say regarding your post that I hope will help you but I'll need more time. So keep on the Parnate, go slow, stay at each new dose at least two weeks, don't go over 60mg for now. I'll post back today I hope!
>
> ~Jade
Hi Jade...I just post a new topic...Just go read it...you will see... I don't listen to your advise and I paid the price...It was crazy, but i'm still in life... ;-)Another time, thanks again for your help, you are really a nice person ;-) I hope everything is fine with you ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on December 31, 2008, at 1:25:05
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry..., posted by shasling on December 28, 2008, at 1:04:15
So are you the legendary expert? I have some questions, if you are. Let me know. Thanx!
~Jade
PS-60mg parnate(30 2x day), 5mg ritalin 2xday, 1mg klon 3x day. 100% remission 10 days ago. Starting to lose it. What to add? have: Parnate, Ritalin, Lithium, Lamictal
Posted by shasling on January 3, 2009, at 0:58:32
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on December 31, 2008, at 1:25:05
I am a firm believer aganist the user of maois and amptahmines.
Now let me explain,i do believe upon a parnate staul,a small amount of one can be added to hopefully kick start parnate back into affect by supplying parnate with the chemicals it needs to work,however this should definantly be done with a docs supervision,and my own personal opinion is once any remission or non remission is felt after a short time,the amphetamine should be removed regardless.
The two meds are deadly togther.My opinion of course,id use various stimulants with a maoi but would not touch a amphatmine in combo with one with a ten foot pole,please be careful good luck.
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 2:25:01
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry..., posted by shasling on January 3, 2009, at 0:58:32
> I am a firm believer aganist the user of maois and amptahmines.
>
> Now let me explain,i do believe upon a parnate staul,a small amount of one can be added to hopefully kick start parnate back into affect by supplying parnate with the chemicals it needs to work,however this should definantly be done with a docs supervision,and my own personal opinion is once any remission or non remission is felt after a short time,the amphetamine should be removed regardless.
>
> The two meds are deadly togther.My opinion of course,id use various stimulants with a maoi but would not touch a amphatmine in combo with one with a ten foot pole,please be careful good luck.Hello, you are against use or user? jk
I took ritalin for 12 yrs under the impression that it WAS NOT an amphetamine, but rather a mild CNS stimulant. I had zero w/d when d/c except a little fatigue. From what I've read, even in pharmacy books, etc., is that MAOI's can be used with caution in combo with Ritalin. Amphetamines, such as Adderall, are not to be combined with MAOI within 2 weeks of each other according to same source.
~Jade
PS-thanx for concern, I'll look into that further.
Posted by SLS on January 3, 2009, at 5:35:40
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 2:25:01
It has been demonstrated that MAOIs can be combined with TCA and psychostimulants - all at the same time! Just forage through Dr. Bob's site to find a thread of physician experiences with this combination.
I once took:
Parnate 150mg
desipramine 300mg
d-amphetamine 20mg
bromocriptine ?mg
thyroxine ?mgOf course, I can't play the guitar now.
(I never could).
- Scott
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:36:59
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry..., posted by SLS on January 3, 2009, at 5:35:40
> It has been demonstrated that MAOIs can be combined with TCA and psychostimulants - all at the same time! Just forage through Dr. Bob's site to find a thread of physician experiences with this combination.
>
> I once took:
>
> Parnate 150mg
> desipramine 300mg
> d-amphetamine 20mg
> bromocriptine ?mg
> thyroxine ?mg
>
> Of course, I can't play the guitar now.
>
> (I never could).
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Hi Scott!!!
You are funny ;-) I can't play guitar also...and that s**** since I i'm from a musicians family...my father and brother are very good guitarists...but with my hands shaking forget it! lol
Yeah, I also think a lot of misunderstanding surround the MAOI's world. In fact, it's probably because they are the most old AD drugs, so a lot more studies was made on them, make them less safer in the eyes of a lot of doctors or psychiatrists. I bet in 20 years, they will told the same things about the newer drugs like the SSRI's or the SRNI's...they will told people that they are dangerous, to not blend them with this and that...and things like that...
For what I experience, I don't know if I can add another drug to my MAOI, since I don't reach the good dosage of Parnate to treat my social phobia, but maybe something to give more energy will help eventually.
The Parnate seem to be less stimulating than what most of the doctors think. In fact, the more I increase my dosage, the more I sleep well at night time (more than 4 hours consecutively for me is a miracle...I can return in my bed and sleep another 4 hours...so that's a second miracle...I don't sleep like this since 4 years I think).
It's seem to be more stimulating at low dose. Now I can take my 20mg in the morning, drink 2 coffees and return in my bed without any problem...
Another point, it's seem also to take in general 6-7 days for the body to adjust to the dose increasement. I feel really bad for 5 days when I up my dose to 40mg, I had a lot of orthostatic hypotension episodes, now I have it only sometimes at night, if I sit a long time at the same place. My hypertension problem is a little bit less important. Sometimes I reach 160/80...but that's not scary me anymore. Normally I do around 110-120/60-70, not i'm always around 130/70...but like I write 10 times before (I tend to repeat myself a lot!!! lol), I will fix this issue with my family doctor next week.
Well, another time, thanks for all the good informations you post here!!! You're very nice! Have a good saturday !!! Take care ok ! :-)
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:56:10
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 2:25:01
> Hello, you are against use or user? jk
>
> I took ritalin for 12 yrs under the impression that it WAS NOT an amphetamine, but rather a mild CNS stimulant. I had zero w/d when d/c except a little fatigue. From what I've read, even in pharmacy books, etc., is that MAOI's can be used with caution in combo with Ritalin. Amphetamines, such as Adderall, are not to be combined with MAOI within 2 weeks of each other according to same source.
>
> ~Jade
> PS-thanx for concern, I'll look into that further.Strange, I took also Ritalin for a small period of time and I always find it to be a very mild stimulant drug, in fact, I always find the coffee more strong than the Ritalin...
I remember a more old drug call "Ponderal(Redux)", who was retrieve from the market in 1997, it was a pill to help loosing weight and a strong stimulant, a lot similar to Adderall I think...I take it for a long period of time and even if at the time I was already diagnosticed with social phobia and general anxiety and it never increase my problems.
I always think that some people benefit more from stimulant drugs for anxiety and social phobia than drug who will make them more tired like all the SSRI's or SRNI's...
Since Adderall-XR is not cover by insurrance where I live and it's a lot expensive, I never had the chance to try it...maybe one day it will help me to deal with my daytime energy level, since I can't avoid the afternoon need of taking a "nap"... Ok, for now I use a lot of coffee to avoid it, but coffee is coffee...mean that i'm tired to drink it. I like the taste but I dislike the effect of it in my intestine... Maybe also with time, the Parnate will help me also to recover from that daytime lack of energy. Since I don't reach my effective dosage of it and since I also just begin to sleep more well at night, maybe everything will improve with time. I don't sleep a lot of time at night for 4 years at least so maybe also it's why I feel more tired since I increase my dose of Parnate to 40mg...I sleep more at night and I wake up not feeling rested...). I'm sure everything will improve.
I think what you have to check if you take a stimulant with a MAOI's is your blood pressure. Since stimulants tends to increase the blood pressure, you just have to make it safe...go slow on the stimulant dose...and increase slowly if you need it...Since i'm not a doctor (lol), that's the only one advise I can write...
Have a good day Jade ;-)
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 17:51:47
In reply to Re: Click here! - Sorry... » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 3, 2009, at 7:56:10
> > Hello, you are against use or user? jk
> >
> > I took ritalin for 12 yrs under the impression that it WAS NOT an amphetamine, but rather a mild CNS stimulant. I had zero w/d when d/c except a little fatigue. From what I've read, even in pharmacy books, etc., is that MAOI's can be used with caution in combo with Ritalin. Amphetamines, such as Adderall, are not to be combined with MAOI within 2 weeks of each other according to same source.
> >
> > ~Jade
> > PS-thanx for concern, I'll look into that further.
>
> Strange, I took also Ritalin for a small period of time and I always find it to be a very mild stimulant drug, in fact, I always find the coffee more strong than the Ritalin...
Did you take it after the stronger stim you mention below? If so you'd have a tolerance.
I think dose really makes a difference, too.
>
> I remember a more old drug call "Ponderal(Redux)", who was retrieve from the market in 1997, it was a pill to help loosing weight and a strong stimulant, a lot similar to Adderall I think...I take it for a long period of time and even if at the time I was already diagnosticed with social phobia and general anxiety and it never increase my problems.
>
> I always think that some people benefit more from stimulant drugs for anxiety and social phobia than drug who will make them more tired like all the SSRI's or SRNI's...
>
> Since Adderall-XR is not cover by insurrance where I live and it's a lot expensive, I never had the chance to try it...maybe one day it will help me to deal with my daytime energy level, since I can't avoid the afternoon need of taking a "nap"... Ok, for now I use a lot of coffee to avoid it, but coffee is coffee...mean that i'm tired to drink it. I like the taste but I dislike the effect of it in my intestine... Maybe also with time, the Parnate will help me also to recover from that daytime lack of energy.
It helped me for that 10 day "remission" I had!
Since I don't reach my effective dosage of it and since I also just begin to sleep more well at night, maybe everything will improve with time. I don't sleep a lot of time at night for 4 years at least so maybe also it's why I feel more tired since I increase my dose of Parnate to 40mg...I sleep more at night and I wake up not feeling rested...). I'm sure everything will improve.Vincent, things will improve a lot after 40mg. That's nothing. I believe you'll need to go to at LEAST 60mg, where I am, and stay there a few weeks. Thats what Scott told me. Side effects got better for me the higher I went. I just don't like not knowing what may come next!
>
> I think what you have to check if you take a stimulant with a MAOI's is your blood pressure. Since stimulants tends to increase the blood pressure, you just have to make it safe...go slow on the stimulant dose...and increase slowly if you need it...Since i'm not a doctor (lol), that's the only one advise I can write...I'd take you over my PDoc any day, Vince!!!
>
> Have a good day Jade ;-)
Hey, I set up a thread near the bottom of board for Parnate users. Will You check it out? Thnks.I set a previous thread for "experts" to tell us what they know about our journey and what to expect along the way, and at the end!
Posted by Mickapoo on January 10, 2009, at 14:22:10
In reply to Re: Parnate - Evidence for using high dosages. » Vincent_QC, posted by JadeKelly on December 28, 2008, at 10:33:07
> >
> > > Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
> > >
How exactly do you find a Psychopharmacist? What exactly are they? I've been on Nardil prescribed by my family doctor (after some begging on my part), and it's not working so I'd like to try switching to Parnate. Seems like most pDocs or any others want to prescribe MAOI's.Thanks!
Mickapoo
Posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 15:34:19
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » JadeKelly, posted by Mickapoo on January 10, 2009, at 14:22:10
> > >
> > > > Haven't had a chance to read all documents, but good you found the one referring to the StarD study. I have been in 100% remission for 9 days on 60mg of Parnate. One morn I was no-one, suddenly around noon I felt like myself again. I have my life back. Crazy. I'm sure you can relate to my interest in this cause. If/when I have to increase dose, my PDoc may very well say I'm at the limit. My next step is to find a good (MAOI enlightened) Psychopharmacist as suggested in one of your documents.
> > > >
>
>
> How exactly do you find a Psychopharmacist? What exactly are they? I've been on Nardil prescribed by my family doctor (after some begging on my part), and it's not working so I'd like to try switching to Parnate. Seems like most pDocs or any others want to prescribe MAOI's.
>
> Thanks!
> MickapooHi!
I Hope I spelled that right. Not sure if they are called Psychopharmacist, or Psychopharmocolist, at any rate, I haven't seen one yet, but I believe they are PDocs but specialize more on the pharmacy end, meaning they know more about the actual medications themselves. I'm gonna make calls to a large hospital in my area and see if I can find one. I imagine they are not as easy to see as a regular PDoc. I wish I had more info for you than that. The benefit I'm hoping is that they will not be hesitant to prescribe things that my PDoc wont or cant because he doesn't have the knowledge and experience. Hope that helps some. If you find one let me know!
As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone. So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.
Good Luck!
~Jade
Posted by SLS on January 10, 2009, at 16:03:01
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » Mickapoo, posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 15:34:19
> As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone.
Did you ever see the movie "Awakenings"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings
How about "Flowers for Algernon"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon
Because of my history of 3 day "remissions", I find these works wrenching.
> So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.Woohoo!
Kick butt!
You will get the result you want with your positive attitude, constructive behaviors, and vigilance. I hope some of it rubs off on the rest of us. You are a great role model.
Drugs work.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 21:49:04
In reply to Re: Parnate - Psychopharmacist » JadeKelly, posted by SLS on January 10, 2009, at 16:03:01
> > As an aside, I did have what I thought was remission but unfortunately it lasted 10 days and then was gone.
>
> Did you ever see the movie "Awakenings"?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awakenings
>
> How about "Flowers for Algernon"?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_for_algernon
>
> Because of my history of 3 day "remissions", I find these works wrenching.
>
>
> > So I feel like Parnate can work, I get some relief from it, but I'm gonna stick it out and augment further if I need to. Until I get the result I want.
>
> Woohoo!
>
> Kick butt!
>
> You will get the result you want with your positive attitude, constructive behaviors, and vigilance. I hope some of it rubs off on the rest of us. You are a great role model.
>
> Drugs work.
>
>
> - Scott
Haha, are you spying? Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. It means alot! Its hard to be patient. You sound in a good mood!By the way, your posts did go thru to the woman with the husband on Seroquel. I don't know about you, but my fingers hurt from all the posting the last two days. I think we've got it pretty well under control, you?
I'm hesitant to ask you a question cause I said I wouldn't, but while you're in SUCH a good mood:
If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate? I've felt this same thing when I've run out of klonopin (which I haven't lately)
If you can answer that great, if not don't worry about it. I know how to scheme too :) I wish
~Jade
>
Posted by SLS on January 11, 2009, at 7:17:28
In reply to Re: SCOTT » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 21:49:04
> If I felt like I was in withdrawal (sweats, tension, feeling like I NEED something but don't know what....that kinda stuff) but haven't changed anything, is that a sign to go up on the Parnate?
Remember, I asked you if you experienced heart palpitations? It is a personal theory of mind that the "fight or flight" things that you are currently experiencing *could* be signs of an imminent therapeutic response to treatment. It might be a good sign. The question becomes: Is it a matter of time or a matter of dosage? Maybe you will respond very soon to your current dosage of Parnate. However, you might need to increase the dosage to pass through this period of what I call an exaggerated dysautonomia.
How long have you been at 60mg of Parnate?
When did you last increase your dosage of methylphenidate?
When did this stuff start?
Are you dreaming at night?
- Scott
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.