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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BGB on July 18, 2008, at 23:21:15
Well, it turns out that the manic/psychotic episode that I had was probably just due to hyperthyroidism. My p-doc cranked up my Cytomel to 75mcg/day to augment my antidepressants, which are not working. He said my baseline thyroid levels, without any thyroid medication, were just slightly under optimal levels, and that he was trying the Cytomel to make me hyperthyroid because some recent study showed that throwing someone into a state of hyperthyroidism could help them out of a severe depressive episode.
Unfortunately, not only did my depression probably get worse, I went totally and completely insane for a few weeks. I couldn't sleep, eat, think or have a meaningful conversation. I have never felt such anxiety in my life; Valium did not even touch it. I thought I was loosing my mind for sure. It was scary.
I have been off of the Cytomel (went cold turkey, on doc's advice) for 3 days now and am already feeling much, much calmer. I can eat and sleep again. I am still going to keep my increased doses of Trileptal (1200mg to 1800mg) and Lamictal (200mg), and lowered doses of Cymbalta (120mg down to 60mg) and Wellbutrin SR (600mg to 400mg). I also discontinued Remeron 60mg and don't feel any worse for it. I don't think it was doing much of anything.
The moral of the story, children, is that thyroid is the master hormone of all other hormones and it can f*** you up if you're not careful with it. If your doctor is changing around your dose of a thyroid hormone, ASK him or her WHY! I wouldn't have given him my permission to be his personal thyroid guinea pig had I realized what he was doing.
Strike 9, you're out, doc! I've had enough, finally. We're changing insurance companies at work on August 1, and as soon as they give us access to the physician directory I am finding myself a new psychiatrist! Wish me luck! And please, be careful and cautious with your thyroid! Many people reap great benefits from thyroid augmentation, but it has to be done right! =)
Posted by linkadge on July 18, 2008, at 23:33:29
In reply to BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!!, posted by BGB on July 18, 2008, at 23:21:15
I hear what you are saying and your post seems to mirror many posts I have seen on the topic.
There is a strong devide on the use of thyroid hormones in individuals who are generally in the normal range, especially since long term hyperthyroid can do some strange things medically.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 18, 2008, at 23:37:10
In reply to BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!!, posted by BGB on July 18, 2008, at 23:21:15
How well I know as mine is out of wack again afraid I'm hyperthyroid as well as lost 31 pounds in the three months since surgery. My endo has cut the synthroid and just was tested again. My anxiety leaves me so exhausted my valium isn't even needed. Mine's hasimotos autoimmune. And I was 8 weeks ago in almost the hyper range. I truly understand. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 0:27:40
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » BGB, posted by linkadge on July 18, 2008, at 23:33:29
Link it can kill you as your temp goes up and like my neighbor they hardly saved her had to remove her thyroid and radiate it now on synthroid. This was not with cytomel she just went into thyroid toxicosis her body did it. Phillipa
Posted by BGB on July 19, 2008, at 0:30:42
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » BGB, posted by Phillipa on July 18, 2008, at 23:37:10
> How well I know as mine is out of wack again afraid I'm hyperthyroid as well as lost 31 pounds in the three months since surgery. My endo has cut the synthroid and just was tested again. My anxiety leaves me so exhausted my valium isn't even needed. Mine's hasimotos autoimmune. And I was 8 weeks ago in almost the hyper range. I truly understand. Love Phillipa
I feel terrible for you, dear! I had no idea anxiety could be so incredibly bad until this incident, so I can imagine what you must be going through! I hope they get your dosage figured out as soon as possible!
I still can't believe that my shrink's response to my frantic phone call that I was going crazy on the increased Cytomel was to just increase my mood stabilizers and decrease my antidepressants...he never, ever mentioned the Cytomel until my visit last week. I honestly thought I was manic, and fed that fear by raising my Trileptal! Bleh! I still have a bad taste in my mouth!
Posted by SLS on July 19, 2008, at 5:39:41
In reply to BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!!, posted by BGB on July 18, 2008, at 23:21:15
Triiodothyronine (T3,Cytomel) exacerbated my depression to a much greater level. However, I found thyroxine (T4, Synthroid) to be helpful. I might consider adding it back. I have improved more gradually than I would like.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 12:35:02
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » BGB, posted by SLS on July 19, 2008, at 5:39:41
Cytomel when it was added was like coffee and can't drink and that was on 5. Scott didn't you say your's was in the high normal range once? If so wouldn't armour be better? Dont's know just asking. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 19, 2008, at 13:09:51
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » SLS, posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 12:35:02
> Cytomel when it was added was like coffee and can't drink and that was on 5. Scott didn't you say your's was in the high normal range once? If so wouldn't armour be better? Dont's know just asking. Love Phillipa
That's a good thought. I'll discuss it with my doctor.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 13:26:00
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!!, posted by SLS on July 19, 2008, at 13:09:51
Scott I just never knew before how much trouble a messed up thyroid could cause. Of course your case is different as it's normal but with hasimostos it sputters at times and releases a lot of hormone but really the thyroid is dying. Love Phillipa Just remember the osteopath was upset when he heard they had put me on synthroid and not something natural. But I also hear that armour can vary a lot in batches. Mary Soloman sp? on google seems to be the thyroid expert.
Posted by SLS on July 19, 2008, at 14:00:38
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » SLS, posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 13:26:00
Thanks, Jan.
What are the advantages to using Armour?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 14:18:00
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » Phillipa, posted by SLS on July 19, 2008, at 14:00:38
Scott to be honest it's confusing to me as synthroid was grandfathered in and a lot of people who do have thyroid disease find it gives them more energy and less hair loss. But that is with real diseases. And also google that is not the most reliable source. So Please if you find something that says it's better as for you you would like it for boosting depression right? Would you let me know? Thanks Jan
Posted by Maxime on July 19, 2008, at 17:24:54
In reply to BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!!, posted by BGB on July 18, 2008, at 23:21:15
Cytomel can help and not everyone will have the same reaction as you had. Usually the dosage is much smaller. He never should have put you on such a high dosage as it could have messed up your thyroid in a bad way.
Glad you are off it.
maxime
Posted by BGB on July 19, 2008, at 18:08:40
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » BGB, posted by Maxime on July 19, 2008, at 17:24:54
> Cytomel can help and not everyone will have the same reaction as you had. Usually the dosage is much smaller. He never should have put you on such a high dosage as it could have messed up your thyroid in a bad way.
Good point, I agree that many people are helped by thyroid augmentation, and I don't want to discourage anyone from trying it. I just want to stress that it should be done carefully and cautiously and that you should definitely ask questions if anything seems weird!Most importantly, if your psychiatric symptoms get worse, lower the thyroid hormone dosage before screwing around with the dosage on all of your other meds! I don't know why I agreed to do that, but I guess since my doctor didn't tell me that the episode had anything to do with the Cytomel, I didn't even consider it as a possibility. I honestly just thought I was totally and completely loosing my mind.
Posted by annabamma on July 22, 2008, at 13:01:16
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » Phillipa, posted by SLS on July 19, 2008, at 14:00:38
> Thanks, Jan.
>
> What are the advantages to using Armour?
>
>
> - ScottThere are many people that SWEAR by Armour Thyroid-and report having much more trouble on the "newer and improved" Synthroid / Cytomel .Any reports or "studies" you find on the internet should be checked for exactly who is sponsoring the information. The drug companies-as we all know can be very slick.I've used Armour Thyroid for about 2 years now w/o problems.Make sure your doc is up-to-date on the new lowered normal thyroid levels.Seems like a lot of people are walking around borderline-low.I think this might be especially true of all us stressed,depressed,adrenal-burned out souls.
Posted by Phillipa on July 22, 2008, at 20:28:13
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!!, posted by annabamma on July 22, 2008, at 13:01:16
Know my endo wants me at l but was lower on synthroid. Any good sites with legitimate information? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by brooke484 on July 22, 2008, at 21:14:15
In reply to Re: BE CAREFUL with Cytomel + thyroid hormones!!! » annabamma, posted by Phillipa on July 22, 2008, at 20:28:13
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&webtag=ab-thyroid
This is the best site I've found.
brooke
Posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2008, at 19:42:53
In reply to Phillipa, posted by brooke484 on July 22, 2008, at 21:14:15
Brooke thanks as got new results today and tsh is only .178 and Free T4 1.89. I just don't understand it all????? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2008, at 19:45:39
In reply to Phillipa, posted by brooke484 on July 22, 2008, at 21:14:15
Added it to my favorites thanks again!!! Phillipa
Posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2008, at 21:20:19
In reply to Re: Phillipa » brooke484, posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2008, at 19:42:53
But those are pretty good numbers, right? I've posted a ton of questions on that web site and they give great advice. You should ask them what you want to know.
brooke
p.s.
I'm done with EMSAM as of yesterday.
Posted by Phillipa on July 24, 2008, at 19:57:27
In reply to Re: Phillipa, posted by brooke484 on July 23, 2008, at 21:20:19
Nope still hyper hence the dose change and another eight weeks till they test again. So you stopped the Emsam so what is your med now or are you in a washout period? How do you feel? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2008, at 13:05:09
In reply to Phillipa, posted by brooke484 on July 22, 2008, at 21:14:15
Brooke been on the forum to read and seems most have to do with hormones also reproductive since menopausal is there a foroum on there for older women. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by brooke484 on July 25, 2008, at 22:48:08
In reply to Re: Phillipa » brooke484, posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2008, at 13:05:09
This is the only forum I read. They don't have one specifically for older women because they post here also. A lot of the so called "experts" on the board seem to be "older."
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?folderId=1&listMode=13&nav=messages&webtag=ab-thyroid
I'm feeling better but that's only because as soon as I quit EMSAM my blood pressure went up 30 points from 70 to 100. Too bad I couldn't continue taking it along with another med to raise my blood pressure. My doctor will not use Florinef for some reason.
brooke
Posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2008, at 0:02:19
In reply to Re: Phillipa, posted by brooke484 on July 25, 2008, at 22:48:08
Brooke that's a shame you couldn't continue. Did you try something like Gatoraid or salty foods? But the forum is there an easy way to find out what the numbers mean. I see categories that explain the disorder but haven't found one for what do these numbers mean? Any idea? And what med will you try next? Love Phillipa
Posted by brooke484 on July 26, 2008, at 10:18:41
In reply to Re: Phillipa » brooke484, posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2008, at 0:02:19
What numbers do you mean? TSH and T4?
I don't know what I'm trying next. I never did call my doctor to get the name of that drug.
brooke
Posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2008, at 20:36:48
In reply to Re: Phillipa, posted by brooke484 on July 26, 2008, at 10:18:41
Sorry took so long to answer wasn't home. Numbers how to interpret the feedback loop from pituitary to thyroid with the numbers being Free T4 and Tsh. Thank's since haven't been here haven't had time to play with the site but it's in favorites. Humm wonder what the doc has in mind??? Whatever I do hope that it will work well for you. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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