![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on December 12, 2007, at 14:02:11
Hi
I am still on Zoloft for another month to see if it will work or not. But I can't help thinking what I should try next. Since I have been on everything, my pdoc doesn't suggest any meds in particular.
I have been on Wellbutrin twice and both times I went psychotic. Paranoia and hallucinations were strong.
I wonder if I would react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? I know it's the same medication, but maybe sustained release would be gentler on my brain.
Any thoughts, comments?
Maxime
Posted by Racer on December 12, 2007, at 14:21:06
In reply to Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR?, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2007, at 14:02:11
My guess is that, yes, you'll again risk psychosis on the SR formulation. The formulation shouldn't make a lot of difference in your reaction to it.
That said, it's possible that a low dose of some form of Wellbutrin added to the Zoloft might counter some of the flattening you're having trouble with. It may even be enough to allow for a reduction in the Zoloft, which would also help with the flattening. With the Seroquel on board, it might just be a nice little cocktail for you -- you'd have to try it to see...
But, you know me -- give the Zoloft a chance to even out before you add or subtract anything. I'm glad you're going to give it another month. I'm giving the EMSAM another six weeks -- which I'm less and less happy about, by the way -- before I give up on it. Maybe we can form a Sticking With It club of our very own?
Speaking of which, have you gotten my emails? I'd like to hear from you, if you have...
xoxo
Posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2007, at 14:23:54
In reply to Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR?, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2007, at 14:02:11
That's a really tough one. I did okay on zoloft but wellbutrin made me appear manic and ended up in the hospital. I took it once a day so was that sustained release? But don't you need energy? But then again it's the same medicine. I think I should not advise you as I want so much to see you get better. Phillipa
Posted by MidnightBlue on December 12, 2007, at 15:34:11
In reply to Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR?, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2007, at 14:02:11
Maxime,
Don't even go there. Think about the hosptial. If you need to make ANY med changes that is where you should do it.
MB
Posted by maxime on December 12, 2007, at 16:12:33
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » Maxime, posted by MidnightBlue on December 12, 2007, at 15:34:11
My psychologist only wants me in the hospital because I am cutting and he wants me to stop. Sure, I would stop while in the hospital, but I doubt they would give me any coping skills. I would come out of the hospital and start cutting again. I need to learn to control my behaviours.
Maxime
> Maxime,
>
> Don't even go there. Think about the hosptial. If you need to make ANY med changes that is where you should do it.
>
> MB
Posted by maxime on December 12, 2007, at 16:14:55
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR?, posted by Racer on December 12, 2007, at 14:21:06
I was thinking that since I am not reacting to any med the way I did 10 years, then maybe the Wellbutrin wouldn't make me psychotic. It's worth a shot AFTER I give the Zoloft a chance.
Yes, let's start a Sticking With It club!
I sent you a short email. Sorry, that's all I could muster. ;)
xxx
> My guess is that, yes, you'll again risk psychosis on the SR formulation. The formulation shouldn't make a lot of difference in your reaction to it.
>
> That said, it's possible that a low dose of some form of Wellbutrin added to the Zoloft might counter some of the flattening you're having trouble with. It may even be enough to allow for a reduction in the Zoloft, which would also help with the flattening. With the Seroquel on board, it might just be a nice little cocktail for you -- you'd have to try it to see...
>
> But, you know me -- give the Zoloft a chance to even out before you add or subtract anything. I'm glad you're going to give it another month. I'm giving the EMSAM another six weeks -- which I'm less and less happy about, by the way -- before I give up on it. Maybe we can form a Sticking With It club of our very own?
>
> Speaking of which, have you gotten my emails? I'd like to hear from you, if you have...
>
> xoxo
Posted by bleauberry on December 12, 2007, at 19:08:07
In reply to Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR?, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2007, at 14:02:11
My vote is to avoid wellbutrin. You've been there done that.
You say you've tried everything. I don't know. What HAVENT you tried? There has to be an angle that has been overlooked or ignored because nobody felt it was relevent to your symptoms. How about a receptor helper, rather than a neurotransmitter booster, like maybe mirapex. Sure, it is for Parkinsons not depression, and it can make some people depressed, and it can worsen paranoia...that's exactly my point. In reality, it has helped people who responded poorly to all the other appropriate drugs. Hey, hyperactive kids calmed by a stimulant? Modafinil puts some people to sleep? Benzos make some people feel energetic? Maybe, just maybe, try something out of the box.
I am convinced that when somehow has profound symptoms and a profound history like you, and me, there is a REASON for it. We can try our entire lives to reverse the symptoms, and never get better. The only CURATIVE approach is to find out where the symptoms are coming from.
Ever had a 24 hour 4-sample saliva test for cortisol? Forget the cortisol challenge test done by endos. That is meaningless. It only says if your adrenals are alive or dead. It gives no indication how they are working. Very severe untreatable symptoms result from abnormal cortisol patterns, and this is largely overlooked or scoffed at, easily treated.
Ever had a complete thyroid test? T3, free T3, T4, free T4, thyroid antibodies? In harmony with the adrenal gland and cortisol, they work as a conductor for the entire body and brain.
Take a hair sample test specifically from Doctors Data labs, which includes all essential metals, toxic heavy metals, and a bunch of minor metals. The most toxic people often paradoxically show low mercury, low lead, low arsenic. Hair results need to be interpreted, not viewed at first glance, and this is expertly done in the book Amalgam Illness (whether you have/had amalgams or not, metal poisoning comes from a variety of sources). A Yahoo forum group specializing in this, as babble specializes in psychiatry, can interpret what your hair sample results mean. For all you know, you might be highly toxic for lead, mercury, or arsenic and have no clue. And thus the endless problems with psych meds. If that were the case, the only curative treatment for you is not a psych med, but chelation to get the metals out.
Ever had an ELISA or RAST delayed intolerance allergy test? For all you know, symptoms as severe as yours, and even worse, can and are caused by reactions to the very foods we eat. And we don't even know it. I can send myself into a nasty period of heart racing panic type anxiety bordering on paranoia, followed by a deep suicidal totally exhausted depression by simply doing this....eat a pizza. You would not believe the scary chain of events that happens when a confused immune system sees a common ingredient as a foreign invader. You're talking about corrupted and contaminated serotonin molecules, corrupted and contaminated dopamine molecules, and an overwhelming flood on the opioid receptors from super toxins.
Maybe instead of the money spent on the next couple pdoc visits, invest in your better future by testing these things. Hope is easily reachable. I doubt it is coming from the pdocs office any time soon. That would have already happened by now. There is something else going on.
Just my opinions.
For me, my history similar to yours, the whole thing started with amalgam fillings in the teeth, which slowly destroyed my intestinal wall, burned out the adrenals, changed me from a normal hyperthyroid to a hypothyroid, not to mention the untreatable depression that resulted from all those things. When do I feel best, and sometimes perfect? When do I feel 20 years younger, alive happy and vibrant? When I am on a round of DMSA removing mercury. The gut and hormonal probs will take time. But, as bad as I was, I no longer need psych meds and have improved. These results never would have come from a pdoc, as I had several of them and ECT over a 13 year period. All it took was a few lab tests to see what was going on.
Do not underestimate the profound impact the body has on the nervous system. It is like a dump truck filled with lead bricks hitting a plaster wall. The brain is a fragile organ and highly vulnerable to outside forces.
In the meantime, what to do. Tough situation. I went through my lab tests and stuff in worse shape than most people on a psych ward. But I can't expect everyone to have the same endurance to plow forward as I did. For now I would say think outside the box, try things you have not tried, things that probably don't make sense.
Simple supplements can help a lot. A quick depression buster is 800mcg-1200mcg folate. Reduce paranoia with OTC anit-histamines. Beef up your magnesium and taurine intake to as much as you can handle for overall benefits in all departments. You've tried stuff to boost serotonin, but how about something to help the serotonin you have...inositol.
Sorry this is so long. I get frustrated because I have seen the most profound worst possible cases nearly cured in a very short time with such simple targeted cheap things. The key is just finding out what you need, rather than blindly trying one drug after another.
Posted by maxime on December 12, 2007, at 19:20:06
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » Maxime, posted by bleauberry on December 12, 2007, at 19:08:07
- I don't have a single filling in my mouth
- I am hypothyroid (Hashimotos) and take T4 and T3
- I barely eat anything, do I doubt it's food.
- Tried Mirapex and it did nothing
- I've had a 24 hour 4-sample saliva test for cortisol - normal
- I take many supplements since I am anorexic
- I've moved around so many times and my depression always follows. Unless I am carrying heavy metals with me, it's not that.I appreciate your input, but I have thought out of the box.
Also, I live in Canada and we don't pay to see a psychiatrist ... it's covered under our universal health care system. Seeing a psychiatrist is not money out of my pocket.
My system is now reacting differently to meds I took over 10 years ago. Maybe I will find an AD that works. Something. It can't hurt to try the Wellbutrin eventually.
Maxime
> My vote is to avoid wellbutrin. You've been there done that.
>
> You say you've tried everything. I don't know. What HAVENT you tried? There has to be an angle that has been overlooked or ignored because nobody felt it was relevent to your symptoms. How about a receptor helper, rather than a neurotransmitter booster, like maybe mirapex. Sure, it is for Parkinsons not depression, and it can make some people depressed, and it can worsen paranoia...that's exactly my point. In reality, it has helped people who responded poorly to all the other appropriate drugs. Hey, hyperactive kids calmed by a stimulant? Modafinil puts some people to sleep? Benzos make some people feel energetic? Maybe, just maybe, try something out of the box.
>
> I am convinced that when somehow has profound symptoms and a profound history like you, and me, there is a REASON for it. We can try our entire lives to reverse the symptoms, and never get better. The only CURATIVE approach is to find out where the symptoms are coming from.
>
> Ever had a 24 hour 4-sample saliva test for cortisol? Forget the cortisol challenge test done by endos. That is meaningless. It only says if your adrenals are alive or dead. It gives no indication how they are working. Very severe untreatable symptoms result from abnormal cortisol patterns, and this is largely overlooked or scoffed at, easily treated.
>
> Ever had a complete thyroid test? T3, free T3, T4, free T4, thyroid antibodies? In harmony with the adrenal gland and cortisol, they work as a conductor for the entire body and brain.
>
> Take a hair sample test specifically from Doctors Data labs, which includes all essential metals, toxic heavy metals, and a bunch of minor metals. The most toxic people often paradoxically show low mercury, low lead, low arsenic. Hair results need to be interpreted, not viewed at first glance, and this is expertly done in the book Amalgam Illness (whether you have/had amalgams or not, metal poisoning comes from a variety of sources). A Yahoo forum group specializing in this, as babble specializes in psychiatry, can interpret what your hair sample results mean. For all you know, you might be highly toxic for lead, mercury, or arsenic and have no clue. And thus the endless problems with psych meds. If that were the case, the only curative treatment for you is not a psych med, but chelation to get the metals out.
>
> Ever had an ELISA or RAST delayed intolerance allergy test? For all you know, symptoms as severe as yours, and even worse, can and are caused by reactions to the very foods we eat. And we don't even know it. I can send myself into a nasty period of heart racing panic type anxiety bordering on paranoia, followed by a deep suicidal totally exhausted depression by simply doing this....eat a pizza. You would not believe the scary chain of events that happens when a confused immune system sees a common ingredient as a foreign invader. You're talking about corrupted and contaminated serotonin molecules, corrupted and contaminated dopamine molecules, and an overwhelming flood on the opioid receptors from super toxins.
>
> Maybe instead of the money spent on the next couple pdoc visits, invest in your better future by testing these things. Hope is easily reachable. I doubt it is coming from the pdocs office any time soon. That would have already happened by now. There is something else going on.
>
> Just my opinions.
>
> For me, my history similar to yours, the whole thing started with amalgam fillings in the teeth, which slowly destroyed my intestinal wall, burned out the adrenals, changed me from a normal hyperthyroid to a hypothyroid, not to mention the untreatable depression that resulted from all those things. When do I feel best, and sometimes perfect? When do I feel 20 years younger, alive happy and vibrant? When I am on a round of DMSA removing mercury. The gut and hormonal probs will take time. But, as bad as I was, I no longer need psych meds and have improved. These results never would have come from a pdoc, as I had several of them and ECT over a 13 year period. All it took was a few lab tests to see what was going on.
>
> Do not underestimate the profound impact the body has on the nervous system. It is like a dump truck filled with lead bricks hitting a plaster wall. The brain is a fragile organ and highly vulnerable to outside forces.
>
> In the meantime, what to do. Tough situation. I went through my lab tests and stuff in worse shape than most people on a psych ward. But I can't expect everyone to have the same endurance to plow forward as I did. For now I would say think outside the box, try things you have not tried, things that probably don't make sense.
>
> Simple supplements can help a lot. A quick depression buster is 800mcg-1200mcg folate. Reduce paranoia with OTC anit-histamines. Beef up your magnesium and taurine intake to as much as you can handle for overall benefits in all departments. You've tried stuff to boost serotonin, but how about something to help the serotonin you have...inositol.
>
> Sorry this is so long. I get frustrated because I have seen the most profound worst possible cases nearly cured in a very short time with such simple targeted cheap things. The key is just finding out what you need, rather than blindly trying one drug after another.
>
>
Posted by maxime on December 12, 2007, at 19:21:11
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » Maxime, posted by bleauberry on December 12, 2007, at 19:08:07
Oh, and I don't blindly try one drug after another. I do research and I work with doctors.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2007, at 19:26:59
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » bleauberry, posted by maxime on December 12, 2007, at 19:21:11
Maxie research requip .5mg as my friend found relief even after ECT. Phillipa
Posted by Dragon Black on December 12, 2007, at 19:31:00
In reply to Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR?, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2007, at 14:02:11
If you previously tried the original one (immediate release, 3 or 4 x/day dosing), then SR would definitely be gentler and the XL would be much more gentle. I used to be on the XL and couldn't really tell in terms of feeling it. Recently started on SR and it is much stronger to me.
> Hi
>
> I am still on Zoloft for another month to see if it will work or not. But I can't help thinking what I should try next. Since I have been on everything, my pdoc doesn't suggest any meds in particular.
>
> I have been on Wellbutrin twice and both times I went psychotic. Paranoia and hallucinations were strong.
>
> I wonder if I would react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? I know it's the same medication, but maybe sustained release would be gentler on my brain.
>
> Any thoughts, comments?
>
> Maxime
Posted by bleauberry on December 13, 2007, at 17:32:10
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » bleauberry, posted by maxime on December 12, 2007, at 19:20:06
Awesome. Looks like you have checked a bunch of important things that usually do not get checked.
You barely eat anything. That is a problem. Without adequate food, it is hard to heal.
If you have heavy metals at all, mercury could have come from childhood vaccinations (they had mercury in them back then), or lead or arsenic from somewhere in your environment. This one is still a question mark for you at this time, but fits the clinical picture pretty well.
I am still curious though, what meds have you not tried. I realize the list of ones you have tried would be long. So just keep it short, just the ones you have not tried. Anything. Which TCAs, which MAOIs, which SSRIs, which mood stabilizers, which antipsychotics, which supplements (taurine, magnesium, chromium, selenium, CoQ10, inositol, zinc, etc), which brain boosting meds not tried, such as hydergine, piracetam, etc.
Yes, you have thought outside of the box and it excites me to see that. Not enough of that these days. You will have me thinking about this one. There is someting that's been missed, and I humbly admit at this time I do not know what it is. I certainly understand your frustrations, pains, discomforts and challenges.
> - I don't have a single filling in my mouth
> - I am hypothyroid (Hashimotos) and take T4 and T3
> - I barely eat anything, do I doubt it's food.
> - Tried Mirapex and it did nothing
> - I've had a 24 hour 4-sample saliva test for cortisol - normal
> - I take many supplements since I am anorexic
> - I've moved around so many times and my depression always follows. Unless I am carrying heavy metals with me, it's not that.
>
> I appreciate your input, but I have thought out of the box.
>
> Also, I live in Canada and we don't pay to see a psychiatrist ... it's covered under our universal health care system. Seeing a psychiatrist is not money out of my pocket.
>
> My system is now reacting differently to meds I took over 10 years ago. Maybe I will find an AD that works. Something. It can't hurt to try the Wellbutrin eventually.
>
> Maxime
>
> > My vote is to avoid wellbutrin. You've been there done that.
> >
> > You say you've tried everything. I don't know. What HAVENT you tried? There has to be an angle that has been overlooked or ignored because nobody felt it was relevent to your symptoms. How about a receptor helper, rather than a neurotransmitter booster, like maybe mirapex. Sure, it is for Parkinsons not depression, and it can make some people depressed, and it can worsen paranoia...that's exactly my point. In reality, it has helped people who responded poorly to all the other appropriate drugs. Hey, hyperactive kids calmed by a stimulant? Modafinil puts some people to sleep? Benzos make some people feel energetic? Maybe, just maybe, try something out of the box.
> >
> > I am convinced that when somehow has profound symptoms and a profound history like you, and me, there is a REASON for it. We can try our entire lives to reverse the symptoms, and never get better. The only CURATIVE approach is to find out where the symptoms are coming from.
> >
> > Ever had a 24 hour 4-sample saliva test for cortisol? Forget the cortisol challenge test done by endos. That is meaningless. It only says if your adrenals are alive or dead. It gives no indication how they are working. Very severe untreatable symptoms result from abnormal cortisol patterns, and this is largely overlooked or scoffed at, easily treated.
> >
> > Ever had a complete thyroid test? T3, free T3, T4, free T4, thyroid antibodies? In harmony with the adrenal gland and cortisol, they work as a conductor for the entire body and brain.
> >
> > Take a hair sample test specifically from Doctors Data labs, which includes all essential metals, toxic heavy metals, and a bunch of minor metals. The most toxic people often paradoxically show low mercury, low lead, low arsenic. Hair results need to be interpreted, not viewed at first glance, and this is expertly done in the book Amalgam Illness (whether you have/had amalgams or not, metal poisoning comes from a variety of sources). A Yahoo forum group specializing in this, as babble specializes in psychiatry, can interpret what your hair sample results mean. For all you know, you might be highly toxic for lead, mercury, or arsenic and have no clue. And thus the endless problems with psych meds. If that were the case, the only curative treatment for you is not a psych med, but chelation to get the metals out.
> >
> > Ever had an ELISA or RAST delayed intolerance allergy test? For all you know, symptoms as severe as yours, and even worse, can and are caused by reactions to the very foods we eat. And we don't even know it. I can send myself into a nasty period of heart racing panic type anxiety bordering on paranoia, followed by a deep suicidal totally exhausted depression by simply doing this....eat a pizza. You would not believe the scary chain of events that happens when a confused immune system sees a common ingredient as a foreign invader. You're talking about corrupted and contaminated serotonin molecules, corrupted and contaminated dopamine molecules, and an overwhelming flood on the opioid receptors from super toxins.
> >
> > Maybe instead of the money spent on the next couple pdoc visits, invest in your better future by testing these things. Hope is easily reachable. I doubt it is coming from the pdocs office any time soon. That would have already happened by now. There is something else going on.
> >
> > Just my opinions.
> >
> > For me, my history similar to yours, the whole thing started with amalgam fillings in the teeth, which slowly destroyed my intestinal wall, burned out the adrenals, changed me from a normal hyperthyroid to a hypothyroid, not to mention the untreatable depression that resulted from all those things. When do I feel best, and sometimes perfect? When do I feel 20 years younger, alive happy and vibrant? When I am on a round of DMSA removing mercury. The gut and hormonal probs will take time. But, as bad as I was, I no longer need psych meds and have improved. These results never would have come from a pdoc, as I had several of them and ECT over a 13 year period. All it took was a few lab tests to see what was going on.
> >
> > Do not underestimate the profound impact the body has on the nervous system. It is like a dump truck filled with lead bricks hitting a plaster wall. The brain is a fragile organ and highly vulnerable to outside forces.
> >
> > In the meantime, what to do. Tough situation. I went through my lab tests and stuff in worse shape than most people on a psych ward. But I can't expect everyone to have the same endurance to plow forward as I did. For now I would say think outside the box, try things you have not tried, things that probably don't make sense.
> >
> > Simple supplements can help a lot. A quick depression buster is 800mcg-1200mcg folate. Reduce paranoia with OTC anit-histamines. Beef up your magnesium and taurine intake to as much as you can handle for overall benefits in all departments. You've tried stuff to boost serotonin, but how about something to help the serotonin you have...inositol.
> >
> > Sorry this is so long. I get frustrated because I have seen the most profound worst possible cases nearly cured in a very short time with such simple targeted cheap things. The key is just finding out what you need, rather than blindly trying one drug after another.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Maxime on December 13, 2007, at 18:52:12
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR?, posted by bleauberry on December 13, 2007, at 17:32:10
I have tried these meds. Sorry about the spelling .. I am too lazy to look them up. I am sure I have forgotten some.
Luvox
Zoloft
Paxil
Effexor
Prozac
Wellbutrin
Remeron
Celexa
Lexapro
Nardil
Parnate
Manerex
Mirapex
Topomax
tegretol
Depakote
Lithium
Lamictal
Trileptal
Zyprexa
Resperidone
Seroquel
Strattera
Adderall
Ritalin
Dexedrine
Neurontin
Trazadone
amitriptyline
Nortriptyline
desipramine
Buspirone
selegiline
Rivotril
Ativan
Temazepam
Surmontil
Immipramine
Thorazine
Nozinan
Haldol
Ludiomil
Cytomel
Synthroid> Awesome. Looks like you have checked a bunch of important things that usually do not get checked.
>
> You barely eat anything. That is a problem. Without adequate food, it is hard to heal.
>
> If you have heavy metals at all, mercury could have come from childhood vaccinations (they had mercury in them back then), or lead or arsenic from somewhere in your environment. This one is still a question mark for you at this time, but fits the clinical picture pretty well.
>
> I am still curious though, what meds have you not tried. I realize the list of ones you have tried would be long. So just keep it short, just the ones you have not tried. Anything. Which TCAs, which MAOIs, which SSRIs, which mood stabilizers, which antipsychotics, which supplements (taurine, magnesium, chromium, selenium, CoQ10, inositol, zinc, etc), which brain boosting meds not tried, such as hydergine, piracetam, etc.
>
> Yes, you have thought outside of the box and it excites me to see that. Not enough of that these days. You will have me thinking about this one. There is someting that's been missed, and I humbly admit at this time I do not know what it is. I certainly understand your frustrations, pains, discomforts and challenges.
>
> > - I don't have a single filling in my mouth
> > - I am hypothyroid (Hashimotos) and take T4 and T3
> > - I barely eat anything, do I doubt it's food.
> > - Tried Mirapex and it did nothing
> > - I've had a 24 hour 4-sample saliva test for cortisol - normal
> > - I take many supplements since I am anorexic
> > - I've moved around so many times and my depression always follows. Unless I am carrying heavy metals with me, it's not that.
> >
> > I appreciate your input, but I have thought out of the box.
> >
> > Also, I live in Canada and we don't pay to see a psychiatrist ... it's covered under our universal health care system. Seeing a psychiatrist is not money out of my pocket.
> >
> > My system is now reacting differently to meds I took over 10 years ago. Maybe I will find an AD that works. Something. It can't hurt to try the Wellbutrin eventually.
> >
> > Maxime
> >
> > > My vote is to avoid wellbutrin. You've been there done that.
> > >
> > > You say you've tried everything. I don't know. What HAVENT you tried? There has to be an angle that has been overlooked or ignored because nobody felt it was relevent to your symptoms. How about a receptor helper, rather than a neurotransmitter booster, like maybe mirapex. Sure, it is for Parkinsons not depression, and it can make some people depressed, and it can worsen paranoia...that's exactly my point. In reality, it has helped people who responded poorly to all the other appropriate drugs. Hey, hyperactive kids calmed by a stimulant? Modafinil puts some people to sleep? Benzos make some people feel energetic? Maybe, just maybe, try something out of the box.
> > >
> > > I am convinced that when somehow has profound symptoms and a profound history like you, and me, there is a REASON for it. We can try our entire lives to reverse the symptoms, and never get better. The only CURATIVE approach is to find out where the symptoms are coming from.
> > >
> > > Ever had a 24 hour 4-sample saliva test for cortisol? Forget the cortisol challenge test done by endos. That is meaningless. It only says if your adrenals are alive or dead. It gives no indication how they are working. Very severe untreatable symptoms result from abnormal cortisol patterns, and this is largely overlooked or scoffed at, easily treated.
> > >
> > > Ever had a complete thyroid test? T3, free T3, T4, free T4, thyroid antibodies? In harmony with the adrenal gland and cortisol, they work as a conductor for the entire body and brain.
> > >
> > > Take a hair sample test specifically from Doctors Data labs, which includes all essential metals, toxic heavy metals, and a bunch of minor metals. The most toxic people often paradoxically show low mercury, low lead, low arsenic. Hair results need to be interpreted, not viewed at first glance, and this is expertly done in the book Amalgam Illness (whether you have/had amalgams or not, metal poisoning comes from a variety of sources). A Yahoo forum group specializing in this, as babble specializes in psychiatry, can interpret what your hair sample results mean. For all you know, you might be highly toxic for lead, mercury, or arsenic and have no clue. And thus the endless problems with psych meds. If that were the case, the only curative treatment for you is not a psych med, but chelation to get the metals out.
> > >
> > > Ever had an ELISA or RAST delayed intolerance allergy test? For all you know, symptoms as severe as yours, and even worse, can and are caused by reactions to the very foods we eat. And we don't even know it. I can send myself into a nasty period of heart racing panic type anxiety bordering on paranoia, followed by a deep suicidal totally exhausted depression by simply doing this....eat a pizza. You would not believe the scary chain of events that happens when a confused immune system sees a common ingredient as a foreign invader. You're talking about corrupted and contaminated serotonin molecules, corrupted and contaminated dopamine molecules, and an overwhelming flood on the opioid receptors from super toxins.
> > >
> > > Maybe instead of the money spent on the next couple pdoc visits, invest in your better future by testing these things. Hope is easily reachable. I doubt it is coming from the pdocs office any time soon. That would have already happened by now. There is something else going on.
> > >
> > > Just my opinions.
> > >
> > > For me, my history similar to yours, the whole thing started with amalgam fillings in the teeth, which slowly destroyed my intestinal wall, burned out the adrenals, changed me from a normal hyperthyroid to a hypothyroid, not to mention the untreatable depression that resulted from all those things. When do I feel best, and sometimes perfect? When do I feel 20 years younger, alive happy and vibrant? When I am on a round of DMSA removing mercury. The gut and hormonal probs will take time. But, as bad as I was, I no longer need psych meds and have improved. These results never would have come from a pdoc, as I had several of them and ECT over a 13 year period. All it took was a few lab tests to see what was going on.
> > >
> > > Do not underestimate the profound impact the body has on the nervous system. It is like a dump truck filled with lead bricks hitting a plaster wall. The brain is a fragile organ and highly vulnerable to outside forces.
> > >
> > > In the meantime, what to do. Tough situation. I went through my lab tests and stuff in worse shape than most people on a psych ward. But I can't expect everyone to have the same endurance to plow forward as I did. For now I would say think outside the box, try things you have not tried, things that probably don't make sense.
> > >
> > > Simple supplements can help a lot. A quick depression buster is 800mcg-1200mcg folate. Reduce paranoia with OTC anit-histamines. Beef up your magnesium and taurine intake to as much as you can handle for overall benefits in all departments. You've tried stuff to boost serotonin, but how about something to help the serotonin you have...inositol.
> > >
> > > Sorry this is so long. I get frustrated because I have seen the most profound worst possible cases nearly cured in a very short time with such simple targeted cheap things. The key is just finding out what you need, rather than blindly trying one drug after another.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2007, at 19:38:16
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » bleauberry, posted by Maxime on December 13, 2007, at 18:52:12
Maxie have you looked into new off label meds like requip? Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on December 13, 2007, at 21:02:51
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2007, at 19:38:16
> Maxie have you looked into new off label meds like requip? Phillipa
I took Mirapex ... same family.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2007, at 23:57:41
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on December 13, 2007, at 21:02:51
Maxie remember when you went hiking with your friends and had a great time what were you on at the time as you felt good and were so happy with that work you did with the volunteers? Missing link. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on December 14, 2007, at 8:31:28
In reply to Re: Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR? » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on December 13, 2007, at 23:57:41
> Maxie remember when you went hiking with your friends and had a great time what were you on at the time as you felt good and were so happy with that work you did with the volunteers? Missing link. Phillipa
Okay, I am getting a little angry now. You don't know what goes on in my life to make assumptions. I DO VOLUNTEER WORK EVERY SUNDAY!
Please leave me alone.
Maxime
Posted by bleauberry on December 14, 2007, at 18:49:17
In reply to Would I react the same way to Wellbutrin SR?, posted by Maxime on December 12, 2007, at 14:02:11
Maxine, I offer you my deepest heartfelt apologies. I had no idea of your agonizing history or of the extreme efforts by you and your doctor. Forgive me? Feeling stupid.
One thing seems obvious. Whatever it is causing your symptoms is likely not related to serotonin, dopamine, or norepinephrine. Every possible angle available to manipulate them has been tried. The problem is not psychiatric. Psychiatric symptoms yes.
So I have been studying other things.
Some people, especially if not eating, just don't have enough neurotransmitter pools for any drug to manipulate. I imagine you have probably tried naturally raising your pools with 5htp and/or tyrosine?
Pyroluria...genetic defect that can be reversed with huge doses of B6 + zinc.
Genetic defects in the B12/folate/SAMe arena...reversed with high doses of them.
Copper toxicity. Best measured in red blood cells. Can be reversed with high doses of zinc and molybedenum. More common than realized and produces profound untreatable psychiatric symptoms. Copper may come from sources in the environment or food, or may accumulate due to another bodily problem in clearing out toxins, but it primarily comes from...multivitamins; copper water pipes that supply your bath and drinking water.
Intoxication by mercury, lead, arsenic, or lead...either current or from decades ago. Best single test...Fractionated Porphyrins. FDA approved, it shows if damage has occured due to a toxin and steers you toward which toxin it was. It is a urine test, but requires a very competent experienced lab to avoid false negatives. If your doctor wants to know more, let me know. It goes something like this...if elevated coproporphyrin it suggests mercury or a rare genetic defect; but if uroporphyrin is also elevated then the porphyria is due to intoxication rather than genetics. Toxic precoproporphyrin indicates intoxication, but by something other than mercury. And so on.
Plasma amino acid profile is useful to see which to restrict in the diet and which to supplement.
Ties in closely with both depressed and elevated histimine which produces symptoms like yours, which is best measured via platelet neurotransmitters.
Regardless of what your thyroid lab numbers say...normal or whatever...striking improvements can be seen with the addition of more T3. Really good docs ignore the labs and go by feel. With your thyroid disease, this could be especially pertinent. More T3, maybe more T4 with it, forget the lab numbers.
Wish I knew more. Seems like the more we know the more we realize we don't know enough. In any case, your med history sure points to some other physical abnormality/toxicity, where the brain is being impacted but is not at fault. The fault is somewhere else.
I would recommend both you and your doctor read a book. The book goes in detail about the things I have brushed on here, but also goes into many other things that would take me days to write. It is mostly written for the doctor, but is easy enough for a patient to read. It was written for people poisoned by amalgam fillings, but in actuality is a must-have bible for anyone with profound physical or mental problems of any kind. The book is called Amalgam Illness by PHd Andrew Cutler. New it is $60, used on amazon about $30. About 200 pages. I read it in about 4 hours and go back and study it all the time. I am mercury and lead toxic. It is my guide in depression, anxiety, pain, intestinal malabsorption, inability to gain weight, aches and pains, fuzzy eyesight, weakened immune system, food intolerances, chemical sensitivities. Toxins do all that stuff. But whether symptoms are caused by toxins, genetics, or unknown, they can be treated or reversed with very specific treatments. Some of them, but not many, are psychiatric meds. Most of the treatments involve things you might never have heard of.
I truly hope this is helpful in some way. Again, I just have to say, that when one looks at the list of psych meds you have tried, it only takes pure logic to come to a simple conclusion that this problem is something other than psychiatric, though the most evident result of it is psychiatric in nature. So when I say look outside the box, what I mean is read that book along with your doctor so the both of you can pinpoint some exact labs to do to get a better picture of what is going on in your body, stuff that is just not evident at all in everyday lab tests.
I am at just as much of a loss as you are to know what is going on. But you want my gut instinct? Hey, I visit other forums related to my other problems. I've read books and articles about things that cause psychiatric symptoms. I must say, you fit the clinical picture perfectly...heavy metal toxicity. Which one? Each has a way to test and pinpoint and treat. Just gut instinct. The picture is just too perfect to not be, all except for the normal cortisol levels. Usually those are low. Other than that, well. My thoughts.
Back to your original topic, I have no idea if a different version of wellbutrin, or any other psych drug will help you. Based on your history, I would say take small doses of things that have helped you a little bit, mix them up, and while maintaining that move on to aggressive discovery of what the heck is causing all this. Your doctor sounds perfectly capable if he is armed with the right information to guide him.
This is the end of the thread.
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