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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 9:54:26
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it? » stargazer2, posted by Phillipa on November 20, 2007, at 0:33:08
Thanks Phillipa, doing better, not 100%, but able to go on a few interviews and less obsessing with circular thinking.
How are you doing, still on Luvox and valium? Any change or thoughts of what else might help things? I go to pick up Deplin today and will post on my results with that!!!!The pharmacy had to order it, at least they had heard of it even though my pdoc hadn't. Thank God for the education we can give to eachother here. Hopefully it will add to the less than complete effects of Nardil. We'll see soon enough as I think I'll try it for just a month unless the effects are noticeable.
Stargazer
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 10:19:13
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
Hey. Mav, I had to pee every 10 minutes when I was on Wellbutrine. Its most likely a side effect from Norepinephrine or Dopamine levels increasing. So at least we know its hitting at least another transmitter fairly hard and not just seratonin.. its kinda facinating to here these stories but I'm terrible angry we have to put up with the side effects. When I was on wellbutrin 300mgs, I would have to ask my friend to pull over every 10 minutes so I could pee, even tho most of the time I barely had any pee in me or just a little bit. Nardil is causing me urine retention AND I feel like I have to pee more often like you do. I know this side effect, it sucks if you dont have a bathroom nearby when you dont really need one, when I drank beer I peed like every 5 minutes on Wellbutrine, I wonder if its from the NE or DA, Just a theory.
>Nardilstarted
Posted by kaleidoscope on November 20, 2007, at 13:44:28
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?/Mav, others, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 9:47:42
>The previous version of Nardil (pre-2003) had much more user tolerability, with almost no side effects, at much lower doses of efficacy.
Nardil has always been associated with a high incidence of side effects. This has long been recognised by psychiatrists. Although effective and useful drugs, the traditional MAOIs cause frequent side effects, which are sometimes severe. Nardil has never caused 'almost no side effects'. Fair enough, *some* people will have had few side effects but *most* people will certainly have had side effects, regardless of the formulation. Unfortunately, the fact that you tolerated Nardil 20 years ago does not mean that you would tolerate it today, even if the excipients were the same. People change.
Posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 14:12:03
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
I had this same occurance when I started Nardil. The smell would come from nowhere in particular, I'd just get a waft of it now and again. I'd also get a sulfur-like smell from my urine.
I used to take the UK brand - a plain orange pill with no markings. In fact I loved the smell & taste of it & would often let it just melt in the mouth. I'd always sniff the bottle too before taking a dose LOL.
I dont think it is a problem and will go before long.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 14:48:41
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it? » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 14:12:03
> I had this same occurance when I started Nardil. The smell would come from nowhere in particular, I'd just get a waft of it now and again. I'd also get a sulfur-like smell from my urine.
>
> I used to take the UK brand - a plain orange pill with no markings. In fact I loved the smell & taste of it & would often let it just melt in the mouth. I'd always sniff the bottle too before taking a dose LOL.
>
> I dont think it is a problem and will go before long.Hi Tecknohead, Im glad to hear someone else has experienced this before and its not just me. I haven't got many posts back from people with my problem. Have you ever smelt the Phizer version ( I think my Nardil is Phizer it says "PD 270" on the pill. Have you ever smelt this version?? It has a very potent smell and taste. I'm not sensitive to smells, actually quite the opposite, Im pretty tough when it comes to taste and smell and can tell what smells good and bad. I can tolerate the pill's taste and smell BUT once my body metabolizes it WOW! Its a different story. It smells very similar to the pill but quite bad and comes out of my pores hurendously. Even worse is the smell of my urine and stool. It's actually gave my toilet a permanent stink which makes my bathroom smell bad. When I go to the bathroom, it's just totally nuts how much it smells like metabolized nardil. I really hope this diminishes. I didnt titrate up to my dose of 75mgs/day, I began at that dose (you can read why I did that on my post called "Nardil! my story, im new, please get to know me". Ive been on it 5 weeks and maybe since I started at such a high dose my body just isn't used to it as would be someone who titrated and thats why I smell of Nardil so bad. I dont smell bad most of the day because I shower intensely and make my self smell good. Where ever my pills are coming from they are very potent smelling AND this is my second refill from totally different pharmacy's and they were both only 2 months away from expiry date. Any input would be appreciated.
Your bud,
NardilStarted
Posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 16:45:51
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 14:48:41
Sorry, but I've never seen or tried the Phizer Nardil. UK stuff is either made by Concord Pharmaceuticals or Parke Davis.
Does your's need to be refridgerated (the UK version does)? If so, make sure that the pharmacy you get it from has had it stocked in the refridgerator! Otherwise it will go off!
Also, why not see your general doc & ask for a simple liver test (after explaining your symptoms). That might help put your mind at rest, as long as the test results come back fine of course.
It may just be the sulfur smell which is common when starting Nardil - especially likely if you went strait onto 75mg. Like I said before, I had a sulfur smell from my urine when I started taking it.
Posted by blueboy on November 20, 2007, at 16:55:16
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
I've never even heard of this. However, my urine definitely smelled funny. Not as noticeable as asparagus, hehe, but I could smell it.
Nothing else, though.
Posted by anonymoose on November 20, 2007, at 17:53:44
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
I haven't taken Nardil, but I did get the 'Zoloft Smell' while taking Zoloft, whenever I increased the dosage. It seemed like I would be sweating the Zoloft out through pores in my legs while sleeping. Made my sheets smell like Zoloft.
> Hello fellow Psycho-Babbler's.
>
> Does anyone notice that the smell of nardil is coming out of your body? I smell like metabolized Nardil ever since I started taking it (5 weeks ago) The Nardil smell (I'm talking about the new Phizer Nardil) comes out of my pores, urine, stool, and pretty much everywhere on my body. I shower everyday so it helps but I even notice the smell on the clothes I've been wearing and in my bed. My Nardil says "PD 270" on the pill so I suspect its the Phizer version. Has anyone else noticed this??
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 19:47:31
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it? » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 16:45:51
> Sorry, but I've never seen or tried the Phizer Nardil. UK stuff is either made by Concord Pharmaceuticals or Parke Davis.
>
> Does your's need to be refridgerated (the UK version does)? If so, make sure that the pharmacy you get it from has had it stocked in the refridgerator! Otherwise it will go off!
>
> Also, why not see your general doc & ask for a simple liver test (after explaining your symptoms). That might help put your mind at rest, as long as the test results come back fine of course.
>
> It may just be the sulfur smell which is common when starting Nardil - especially likely if you went strait onto 75mg. Like I said before, I had a sulfur smell from my urine when I started taking it.Hey Tecknohed. No actually it doesn't need to be refrigerated. The Phizer kind is supposed to be just at room temperature. I've read somewhere else that as the pills get older/closer to their expiry date they tend to REALLY start smelling. Something happens to them, I dont know if they begine to break down or thr smell starts going through the coating or if they are becoming somewhat rancid. some people have gone back to the pharmacy to get a new batch because of the smell and when they get the fresher ones ordered in they dont smell. My 2 perscriptions so far have been only 2 months away from expiration date, I think its because barely anyone buys nardil much anymore so they are old stock. I have a good feeling that your right and the smell will go away after I adjust and its just a side effect at the beginning. I shall ask my doctor for a liver test the next time i'm there to see if its working right (metabolizing properly)
Thanks for your response
>NardilStarted
Posted by brooke484 on November 20, 2007, at 20:30:34
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?/Phillip, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 9:54:26
Did you just ask your doctor if you could try Deplin and he/she said yes? You must have a pretty open minded doctor. That's great. I would like to try it some day, but my doctor doesn't even know what it is. Please let us know how it makes you feel. I'm very interested.
brooke
Posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 22:27:40
In reply to stargazer2, posted by brooke484 on November 20, 2007, at 20:30:34
Just started Deplin today. My pdoc hadn't heard of it but I said it was new and was being used to facilitate the effects of antidepressants. That was all he needed to hear and wrote the script.
It does help that I have been seeing him for 18 years, I can't even believe that much time has passed. It seems like I just started this hellish journey, since many of those years i faithfully took what he advised and this is the first year I started to take charge of my depression with requests for second opinions and different medications and so far I feel like it has made a big difference.
Perhaps some of my recent recovery has been from this new role in researching new approaches to depression with vitamins and other less med focused treatment. Just being an active participant in my care rather than a passive one has made me stronger and more confident or has this change been the sole result of Nardil. I think a little bit of both.
I will post my Deplin results as they occur from week to week. Hopefully I will have good results to report.
Stargazer
Posted by tecknohed on November 21, 2007, at 5:07:42
In reply to Deplin/Brooke, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 22:27:40
>It seems like I just started this hellish journey, since many of those years i faithfully took what he advised and this is the first year I started to take charge of my depression with requests for second opinions and different medications and so far I feel like it has made a big difference.
>
> Perhaps some of my recent recovery has been from this new role in researching new approaches to depression with vitamins and other less med focused treatment. Just being an active participant in my care rather than a passive one has made me stronger and more confident....My own thoughts exactly! You cant be passive if your somewhat treatment resistant!
>....or has this change been the sole result of Nardil. I think a little bit of both.
Again, I fully agree. Nardil is an excellent med when it works, but you cant just let it do ALL the work!
> I will post my Deplin results as they occur from week to week. Hopefully I will have good results to report.Good luck with it! I look forward to reading your success - fingers crossed!
Posted by stargazer2 on November 21, 2007, at 7:37:19
In reply to Re: Deplin/Brooke » stargazer2, posted by tecknohed on November 21, 2007, at 5:07:42
Posted by quasiloco on November 21, 2007, at 21:13:50
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
as soon as I started taking nardil, I seem to have become hypersensitive to it's smell.
The pills stank, my urine and feces stank, and maybe BO, but I was just too overwhelmed by the other odors to notice.
the bathroom seemed permeated with that odor.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 22, 2007, at 1:26:59
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by quasiloco on November 21, 2007, at 21:13:50
> as soon as I started taking nardil, I seem to have become hypersensitive to it's smell.
>
> The pills stank, my urine and feces stank, and maybe BO, but I was just too overwhelmed by the other odors to notice.
>
> the bathroom seemed permeated with that odor.Yes thats exactly what I'm experiencing. The smell of Nardil coming out of me every where. Quite a embarassing reaction if you ask me. How long have you been on Nardil??? I have a feeling this will go away once our body's adapt. Im at 6weeks of taking nardil for the first time. The smell coming out of me is one of the worst side effects along with insomnia, anorgasmia and poor memory. Those are the only three side effects im dealing with now, the others have subsided. Im interested to hear more about the smell that you have noticed (what brand of nardil are you on? where are you from? do your pills smell potent?) What do you mean by "I was just too overwhelmed by the other odors to notice.." Your one of the first other then me to have spoke of this on this thread. Good luck with your Nardil, let me know more..
Nardilstarted
Posted by tecknohed on November 22, 2007, at 6:45:47
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 22, 2007, at 1:26:59
Hi mate!
Has Nardil actually kicked in yet? I ask because it might actually be worth considering cutting back on your dose a bit. Maybe to 60mg or even 45mg. This might help the smell go. Also, the Nardil dose needs to be very precise for it to work - not enough & it wont work, too much & it still might not work. Your own PERFECT dose may be lower than you think. My own most responsive dose was 75mg, & I even went up as far as 120mg at times which seemed counter-productive in the long run. Always ended up coming back to 75mg, though it actually first kicked in at 60mg.
Of course if it has kicked in then it might be best to leave the dosage, though if that is the case then 60mg might still work just as well. Would give you more 'room' for dose adjustment in the future too if you ever needed to increase.
Posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 23, 2007, at 20:05:51
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it? » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on November 22, 2007, at 6:45:47
It means that Nardil is going through your body. Yes, it is a bummer for your bathroom waste to smell like that, but that is simply one of the things that goes along with Nardil. No worries at all.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 23, 2007, at 20:22:53
In reply to Yes, the Nardil 'smell' is actually a good sign, posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 23, 2007, at 20:05:51
> It means that Nardil is going through your body. Yes, it is a bummer for your bathroom waste to smell like that, but that is simply one of the things that goes along with Nardil. No worries at all.
Hi, I'm glad to hear that its not such a bad thing other then the smell. Do you think it will diminish in time? Im at six weeks since starting nardil. It sure has curbed my social phobia but not much antidepressant effect which is good because im not taking it for depression. Taking it for severe SP, PD and just really bad GAD all together. All the SSRI's made me hypomanic and bipolar (they called it ssri induced mania which fluctuated like bipolar). I dont feel this at all on Nardil. I'm liking the fact that I have no SP anymore after just six weeks, but I still dont think I will be able to give a presentation at college without xanax and a beta-blocker or I'd have a Panic Attack still. Did you have the smell of nardil too?
Posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 24, 2007, at 2:48:59
In reply to Re: Yes, the Nardil 'smell' is actually a good sign » UGottaHaveHOPE, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 23, 2007, at 20:22:53
No, the "bad smell" of Nardil will not go away, but again that is good news because it means the Nardil is flowing through your body, which has to happen for it to work.
Have ever drank a lot of beer? Well, if so, when you urinate, it will smell like beer.
And it is hard to say Nardil has a "bad smell" when urine or human waste in its natural state does not have "good smell." So in essence it really doesn't matter how your human waste smells because it all has a "bad smell."
Im no pdoc, but Ive read bits and peices of your story and I think you may have some characteristics of Bipolar II, most notably the way SSRIs affected you in a hypomanic way. BPII is one of the hardest disorders to diagnose and you have to insist that your pdoc look at it, if your pdoc understands it. After 10 years, my pdoc is finally approaching me as someone with characteristics with BPII. And it was only at my insistence (SSRIs did nothing for me). You remind me of me in a few ways.
The good news is that one of the few AD's that works well for BPII and many, many other disorders is Nardil. Then after that, there are countless combos to try, most involving Lamictal or Seroquel.
Hang in there and I hope you give Nardil a full trial of 10-12 weeks. Michael
Here is a great site to read on BPII and Dr. Phelps will answer emails:
Posted by stargazer2 on November 25, 2007, at 10:46:49
In reply to Now think this out because it's not so bad » Nardilstarted2007, posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 24, 2007, at 2:48:59
You speak the truth Michael...
>>and it is hard to say Nardil has a "bad smell" when urine or human waste in its natural state does not have "good smell." So in essence it really doesn't matter how your human waste smells because it all has a "bad smell."
I just got a 3 new bottles of Nardil in it's Pfizer original container with an absorbent "can" or whatever it is called, for the moisture absorption. I sniffed the pills, as I habitually do, and they had absolutely NO SMELL, which is different from other bottles I have gotten.
In the past I have asked for the "can" for any bottle that didn't come with one, as this seemed to reduce the smell of the pills.
But like I said having an original Nardil bottle with a can in it is the first time I have not encounter Nardil pills that smell, so unless they degrade quickly and develop this smell over the next few weeks, that may be something to request from your the pharmacy. At the least ask for the "can " to be placed in a non-original bottle since this did reduce the smell before but not eliminate it entirely.
Just a suggestion...I personally don't notice alot of "nardil" smells coming from my body, so that may be what is reducing the problem for me.
That and bathing alot...only kidding you guys,
although since I have been feeling better on Nardil my bathing schedule has picked up. I'm back to a bit of obsessiveness, which can be a good thing when for so long this was not considered a high priority.Stargazer
Posted by tecknohed on November 25, 2007, at 17:35:42
In reply to Now think this out because it's not so bad » Nardilstarted2007, posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 24, 2007, at 2:48:59
> No, the "bad smell" of Nardil will not go away, but again that is good news because it means the Nardil is flowing through your body, which has to happen for it to work.
I found the smell went eventually, & so did EVERY other side effect (lack of energy got worse but I put that down to lack of efficacy rather than a side effect - when Nardil first worked I had more energy than ever). Nardil's side effects just take a long time to fade. Even the anorgasmia goes eventually.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 25, 2007, at 19:44:26
In reply to Re: Now think this out because it's not so bad » UGottaHaveHOPE, posted by tecknohed on November 25, 2007, at 17:35:42
> > No, the "bad smell" of Nardil will not go away, but again that is good news because it means the Nardil is flowing through your body, which has to happen for it to work.
>
> I found the smell went eventually, & so did EVERY other side effect (lack of energy got worse but I put that down to lack of efficacy rather than a side effect - when Nardil first worked I had more energy than ever). Nardil's side effects just take a long time to fade. Even the anorgasmia goes eventually.Hey! Yes I just noticed that the smell is fading from me, not much smell from my skin anymore or my stool. I think YouGottaHaveHope is right that it may not completely go away especially in the urine which I still find to smell of nardil pretty bad. I think the reason I had the smell so bad was because I started at 75mg right away and my body was completely not used to metabolizing it. People who titrate up wont notice it as bad as I did.. thats the whole poing of titrating.. lucky I didnt have to many bad other side effects even tho I started so high. Im pretty well Adapted to it now but I feel It could be better. I may go up to 90mgs but I fear If I do that now it will not kick in in time for the presentations I have to do at school in one week, I might just get more side efectd right away which will make me worse for presentating.. So I guesse ill stay at 75mg for now untill this semester is done then maybe try 90 if the 75 doesn't kick in better. Does anyone think that even tho it kicked in at 4 weeks and now I'm at 6.5 weeks that I will still get more benefits just staying at 75mgs? I dont want to go higher really, but if this is all 75 mgs will do I might have to. any input would be greatly appreaciated to know if my current dose will kick in even more.
Thanks
NardilStarted
Posted by tecknohed on November 26, 2007, at 4:51:47
In reply to Re: Now think this out because it's not so bad » tecknohed, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 25, 2007, at 19:44:26
>Im pretty well Adapted to it now but I feel It could be better. I may go up to 90mgs but I fear If I do that now it will not kick in in time for the presentations I have to do at school in one week, I might just get more side efectd right away which will make me worse for presentating.. So I guesse ill stay at 75mg for now untill this semester is done then maybe try 90 if the 75 doesn't kick in better. Does anyone think that even tho it kicked in at 4 weeks and now I'm at 6.5 weeks that I will still get more benefits just staying at 75mgs? I dont want to go higher really, but if this is all 75 mgs will do I might have to. any input would be greatly appreaciated to know if my current dose will kick in even more.
> Thanks
> NardilStarted
>I thought you said above "it sure has curbed my social phobia". Isn't this good enough? What else are you hoping for it to do?
Anyhow, you may indeed find more relief from 90mg, but that doesn't really leave you any room should you need to increase the dose in the future, unless your pdoc is VERY familiar with MAOIs & allows you to go higher.
OR, have you considered adding clonazepam to help the SP out a little more? You may only need 1-1.5mg/day. Dont know if you've ever tried it but I've found clonazepam the best benzo for SP for me, but I need 3mg/day of it though at this dose I seem to have stabilized & never find it more-ish. And as Nardil already raises GABA you shouldn't need a very high dose.
teck
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 26, 2007, at 13:22:35
In reply to Re: Now think this out because it's not so bad » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on November 26, 2007, at 4:51:47
> >Im pretty well Adapted to it now but I feel It could be better. I may go up to 90mgs but I fear If I do that now it will not kick in in time for the presentations I have to do at school in one week, I might just get more side efectd right away which will make me worse for presentating.. So I guesse ill stay at 75mg for now untill this semester is done then maybe try 90 if the 75 doesn't kick in better. Does anyone think that even tho it kicked in at 4 weeks and now I'm at 6.5 weeks that I will still get more benefits just staying at 75mgs? I dont want to go higher really, but if this is all 75 mgs will do I might have to. any input would be greatly appreaciated to know if my current dose will kick in even more.
> > Thanks
> > NardilStarted
> >
>
> I thought you said above "it sure has curbed my social phobia". Isn't this good enough? What else are you hoping for it to do?
>
> Anyhow, you may indeed find more relief from 90mg, but that doesn't really leave you any room should you need to increase the dose in the future, unless your pdoc is VERY familiar with MAOIs & allows you to go higher.
>
> OR, have you considered adding clonazepam to help the SP out a little more? You may only need 1-1.5mg/day. Dont know if you've ever tried it but I've found clonazepam the best benzo for SP for me, but I need 3mg/day of it though at this dose I seem to have stabilized & never find it more-ish. And as Nardil already raises GABA you shouldn't need a very high dose.
>
> teckHi Teck, Yes it has really curbed my SP, I can go anywhere and talk to anyone, so its working very well for that. I'ts quite a dramatic improvement and nardil keeps me mellow and more like myself unlike ssri's that would make me very depersonalized and give me hypomania for a few days then nothing then hypomania then nothing, so they made me bipolar you could say.
The nardil is wonderful except that I dont think it will curb a panic attack next week when I do some presentations at school, I just started toastmasters.. I am very comfortable around people but I'll still start to panic if I have to give a small speach. I know Nardil wont fix everything and I need exposure therapy as well. I am taking .5mg zanax 4x/day = 2mg's/day. Its just these damn speaches I dont know if I can do it, thats why I was wondering if nardil could be better. I'll give some thought to clonazepam but I dont want to change my current drug regime because I only have a week before presentations so I shouldn't be doing any trial's right now. I have a betta blocker aswell so hopefully that will get me through my presentations. Other then that ya Nardil is doing wonderful for SP and it almost feels like a mood stabilizer even though I've never been on one. So ya its gread but im still deathly scared to present.. oh well, we'll see what we can do in the future. I must say I'm glad not to be agoraphobic anymore and paranoid.
Your bud, NardilStarted
Posted by tecknohed on November 26, 2007, at 14:14:08
In reply to Re: Now think this out because it's not so bad » tecknohed, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 26, 2007, at 13:22:35
Yeah, the Xanax sounds like a good idea to keep & as long as it wont sedate you too much then you could add an extra dose before your presentations at school. My own pdoc wants me to stay on 3mg of clonazepam but did say I can take an extra dose in demanding situations.
If you do raise the xanax for these occasions it might be worth trying this out BEFORE the event happens, just to be sure you wont be too sedated. You could try an extra dose tommorow & see what happens.
Beta blocker sounds like a good plan but beware that they can still fog up your mind. Maybe try one a day or so BEFORE your presentations, again just to see how you'll react.
And you may well find Nardil cushions your panic more than you'd expect it to.
Good luck!
teck
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