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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on November 20, 2007, at 0:33:08
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 0:29:11
Stargazer glad you're doing well on the nardil. Phillipa
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 0:59:13
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 0:29:11
> I noticed the smell from the pills themselves more than from my body but I am aware that the medication has caused some changes in my bodily functions, which have caused me to be more self conscious about how I might smell. I have severe gastrointestinal effects, specifically gas and mild constipation which I have never had before so that, in and of itself, has me concerned about what the medication is doing to my body. Overall I'm just aware of more changes (side effects) like lightheadedness that has never resolved since I started nardil in May of this year. Although my BP was as low as 70/40 it has come up a bit and is in the more normal range of 100/60 but the lightheadedness has never gone away.
>
> Also my weight has recently started to climb and I am now battling the side effect of weight gain. That is totally new for me. Another side effect I had in the beginning of starting Nardil was swollen feet. Luckily this did resolve else I believe I would have had to stop it.
>
> Overall, I'm now on 60mg and my depression is under pretty good control so I hope you have good results too. I started slowly at 15 mg due to the effect of Nardil on my BP.
>
> Stargazerwow! eh, This nardil comes with weird side effects and seem more variable then the ssri's. I would say it doesn't have really more SE's except the diet thing and BP wich I guess is pretty serious. I got the severe intestinal track issue like you did too but stool softners have completely helped that, I never had swollen feet. you know whats weird?? My BP is higher then normal on Nardil, since I started its always about 140/90 or a bit higher. Before I was on Nardil my pressure was always perfect and almost too perfect. Now my blood pressure is up just about to where its to high and I check once a week. Opposite for me and you! Weird. But even tho my BP is high I still get really dizzy when getting up from a lying or laid back position and I feel that lightheadedness. Even tho my bp is a little high, the nardil just makes it fluctuate too much from sitting to standing. I consider my dizzyness as bad as anyone elses as I've got Up manu times and had to find something to hold onto because I cant see im soo dizzy or a get right back down again and rise slowly. Interesting
Good to meet you Stargazer! I hope your doing well for now (as well as possible for this moment)
Im doing ok but I lost that awesome euphoria when it kicked in and am just less anxious/ phobic now with minimal depression. Pretty happy and outgoing. 5 weeks for me at 75Keep in Touch Cyao
Posted by mav27 on November 20, 2007, at 6:33:02
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
I havn't noticed the smell, although i notice they taste revolting if i leave a pill in my mouth more than a microsecond.
Only problem im having with nardil right now is i feel the need to go to the toilet every 10 minutes even though i don't actually need to.
Posted by medweirdo on November 20, 2007, at 6:56:30
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by mav27 on November 20, 2007, at 6:33:02
> I havn't noticed the smell, although i notice they taste revolting if i leave a pill in my mouth more than a microsecond.
> Only problem im having with nardil right now is i feel the need to go to the toilet every 10 minutes even though i don't actually need to.That's becuase the pills are dissolved very quickly I think.
Posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 9:47:42
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by mav27 on November 20, 2007, at 6:33:02
Mav,
that can be the sign of a urinary tract infection and is called urinary urgency. Do you have any burning or other symptoms when you try to urinate? I would advise you to get a urine culture, just to be sure and if it is just a side effect of nardil that is a really annoying one. Do you literally have to go every 10 minutes throughout the day?Nardil has very unusual side effects and so different for everyone on it.
If you are the person whose BP is always around 90 or 100 diastolically (on the bottom), you may need something to help control it a bit. The best number for the diastolic reading is 60-80 for optimal control and to avoid any excessive cardiac wear and tear. I would not want another medication for hypertension to increase the dizziness, for sure.
Best of luck to all of us since Nardil is such a help but it definately has its drawbacks since it was reformulated by Pfizer in 2003 for no good reason (economics probably, certainly not user satisfaction since it worked fine). They just wanted to mess with what worked so well for so many and didn't test the new version on depressed people (DUH) Why test it on healthy individals (go figure), I thought the people at Pfizer were highly educated(?) and were doing the work for first and foremost patient results. I must really be naive. The previous version of Nardil (pre-2003) had much more user tolerability, with almost no side effects, at much lower doses of efficacy.
If you are interested in the story of the Nardil reformulation, Google 'nardil activsim'. Former users had disasterous results with the new, 2003 version. Many found themselves with immediate decompensation with high episodes of hospitalization, where previously many were well controlled on Nardil for more than 20 years. I took it in 1989 (my 2nd med ever, no Prozac even then) and I loved the results as they just made me feel "normal' with no obvious side effects. I would give anything to feel that way again, but i have to be thankful for it to be doing "something" although I had a relapse at 45 mg and had to go to 60 mg. I hope it continues to work, as with depression like mine, you are never out of the woods.
Many drug manufacturers only think of their bottom line, not the impact on patient results.
But at least it still works for depression despite it's high side effect profile and strict dietary and medication restrictions.Stargazer
Good luck/
Posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 9:54:26
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it? » stargazer2, posted by Phillipa on November 20, 2007, at 0:33:08
Thanks Phillipa, doing better, not 100%, but able to go on a few interviews and less obsessing with circular thinking.
How are you doing, still on Luvox and valium? Any change or thoughts of what else might help things? I go to pick up Deplin today and will post on my results with that!!!!The pharmacy had to order it, at least they had heard of it even though my pdoc hadn't. Thank God for the education we can give to eachother here. Hopefully it will add to the less than complete effects of Nardil. We'll see soon enough as I think I'll try it for just a month unless the effects are noticeable.
Stargazer
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 10:19:13
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
Hey. Mav, I had to pee every 10 minutes when I was on Wellbutrine. Its most likely a side effect from Norepinephrine or Dopamine levels increasing. So at least we know its hitting at least another transmitter fairly hard and not just seratonin.. its kinda facinating to here these stories but I'm terrible angry we have to put up with the side effects. When I was on wellbutrin 300mgs, I would have to ask my friend to pull over every 10 minutes so I could pee, even tho most of the time I barely had any pee in me or just a little bit. Nardil is causing me urine retention AND I feel like I have to pee more often like you do. I know this side effect, it sucks if you dont have a bathroom nearby when you dont really need one, when I drank beer I peed like every 5 minutes on Wellbutrine, I wonder if its from the NE or DA, Just a theory.
>Nardilstarted
Posted by kaleidoscope on November 20, 2007, at 13:44:28
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?/Mav, others, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 9:47:42
>The previous version of Nardil (pre-2003) had much more user tolerability, with almost no side effects, at much lower doses of efficacy.
Nardil has always been associated with a high incidence of side effects. This has long been recognised by psychiatrists. Although effective and useful drugs, the traditional MAOIs cause frequent side effects, which are sometimes severe. Nardil has never caused 'almost no side effects'. Fair enough, *some* people will have had few side effects but *most* people will certainly have had side effects, regardless of the formulation. Unfortunately, the fact that you tolerated Nardil 20 years ago does not mean that you would tolerate it today, even if the excipients were the same. People change.
Posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 14:12:03
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
I had this same occurance when I started Nardil. The smell would come from nowhere in particular, I'd just get a waft of it now and again. I'd also get a sulfur-like smell from my urine.
I used to take the UK brand - a plain orange pill with no markings. In fact I loved the smell & taste of it & would often let it just melt in the mouth. I'd always sniff the bottle too before taking a dose LOL.
I dont think it is a problem and will go before long.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 14:48:41
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it? » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 14:12:03
> I had this same occurance when I started Nardil. The smell would come from nowhere in particular, I'd just get a waft of it now and again. I'd also get a sulfur-like smell from my urine.
>
> I used to take the UK brand - a plain orange pill with no markings. In fact I loved the smell & taste of it & would often let it just melt in the mouth. I'd always sniff the bottle too before taking a dose LOL.
>
> I dont think it is a problem and will go before long.Hi Tecknohead, Im glad to hear someone else has experienced this before and its not just me. I haven't got many posts back from people with my problem. Have you ever smelt the Phizer version ( I think my Nardil is Phizer it says "PD 270" on the pill. Have you ever smelt this version?? It has a very potent smell and taste. I'm not sensitive to smells, actually quite the opposite, Im pretty tough when it comes to taste and smell and can tell what smells good and bad. I can tolerate the pill's taste and smell BUT once my body metabolizes it WOW! Its a different story. It smells very similar to the pill but quite bad and comes out of my pores hurendously. Even worse is the smell of my urine and stool. It's actually gave my toilet a permanent stink which makes my bathroom smell bad. When I go to the bathroom, it's just totally nuts how much it smells like metabolized nardil. I really hope this diminishes. I didnt titrate up to my dose of 75mgs/day, I began at that dose (you can read why I did that on my post called "Nardil! my story, im new, please get to know me". Ive been on it 5 weeks and maybe since I started at such a high dose my body just isn't used to it as would be someone who titrated and thats why I smell of Nardil so bad. I dont smell bad most of the day because I shower intensely and make my self smell good. Where ever my pills are coming from they are very potent smelling AND this is my second refill from totally different pharmacy's and they were both only 2 months away from expiry date. Any input would be appreciated.
Your bud,
NardilStarted
Posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 16:45:51
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 14:48:41
Sorry, but I've never seen or tried the Phizer Nardil. UK stuff is either made by Concord Pharmaceuticals or Parke Davis.
Does your's need to be refridgerated (the UK version does)? If so, make sure that the pharmacy you get it from has had it stocked in the refridgerator! Otherwise it will go off!
Also, why not see your general doc & ask for a simple liver test (after explaining your symptoms). That might help put your mind at rest, as long as the test results come back fine of course.
It may just be the sulfur smell which is common when starting Nardil - especially likely if you went strait onto 75mg. Like I said before, I had a sulfur smell from my urine when I started taking it.
Posted by blueboy on November 20, 2007, at 16:55:16
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
I've never even heard of this. However, my urine definitely smelled funny. Not as noticeable as asparagus, hehe, but I could smell it.
Nothing else, though.
Posted by anonymoose on November 20, 2007, at 17:53:44
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
I haven't taken Nardil, but I did get the 'Zoloft Smell' while taking Zoloft, whenever I increased the dosage. It seemed like I would be sweating the Zoloft out through pores in my legs while sleeping. Made my sheets smell like Zoloft.
> Hello fellow Psycho-Babbler's.
>
> Does anyone notice that the smell of nardil is coming out of your body? I smell like metabolized Nardil ever since I started taking it (5 weeks ago) The Nardil smell (I'm talking about the new Phizer Nardil) comes out of my pores, urine, stool, and pretty much everywhere on my body. I shower everyday so it helps but I even notice the smell on the clothes I've been wearing and in my bed. My Nardil says "PD 270" on the pill so I suspect its the Phizer version. Has anyone else noticed this??
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 20, 2007, at 19:47:31
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it? » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on November 20, 2007, at 16:45:51
> Sorry, but I've never seen or tried the Phizer Nardil. UK stuff is either made by Concord Pharmaceuticals or Parke Davis.
>
> Does your's need to be refridgerated (the UK version does)? If so, make sure that the pharmacy you get it from has had it stocked in the refridgerator! Otherwise it will go off!
>
> Also, why not see your general doc & ask for a simple liver test (after explaining your symptoms). That might help put your mind at rest, as long as the test results come back fine of course.
>
> It may just be the sulfur smell which is common when starting Nardil - especially likely if you went strait onto 75mg. Like I said before, I had a sulfur smell from my urine when I started taking it.Hey Tecknohed. No actually it doesn't need to be refrigerated. The Phizer kind is supposed to be just at room temperature. I've read somewhere else that as the pills get older/closer to their expiry date they tend to REALLY start smelling. Something happens to them, I dont know if they begine to break down or thr smell starts going through the coating or if they are becoming somewhat rancid. some people have gone back to the pharmacy to get a new batch because of the smell and when they get the fresher ones ordered in they dont smell. My 2 perscriptions so far have been only 2 months away from expiration date, I think its because barely anyone buys nardil much anymore so they are old stock. I have a good feeling that your right and the smell will go away after I adjust and its just a side effect at the beginning. I shall ask my doctor for a liver test the next time i'm there to see if its working right (metabolizing properly)
Thanks for your response
>NardilStarted
Posted by brooke484 on November 20, 2007, at 20:30:34
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?/Phillip, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 9:54:26
Did you just ask your doctor if you could try Deplin and he/she said yes? You must have a pretty open minded doctor. That's great. I would like to try it some day, but my doctor doesn't even know what it is. Please let us know how it makes you feel. I'm very interested.
brooke
Posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 22:27:40
In reply to stargazer2, posted by brooke484 on November 20, 2007, at 20:30:34
Just started Deplin today. My pdoc hadn't heard of it but I said it was new and was being used to facilitate the effects of antidepressants. That was all he needed to hear and wrote the script.
It does help that I have been seeing him for 18 years, I can't even believe that much time has passed. It seems like I just started this hellish journey, since many of those years i faithfully took what he advised and this is the first year I started to take charge of my depression with requests for second opinions and different medications and so far I feel like it has made a big difference.
Perhaps some of my recent recovery has been from this new role in researching new approaches to depression with vitamins and other less med focused treatment. Just being an active participant in my care rather than a passive one has made me stronger and more confident or has this change been the sole result of Nardil. I think a little bit of both.
I will post my Deplin results as they occur from week to week. Hopefully I will have good results to report.
Stargazer
Posted by tecknohed on November 21, 2007, at 5:07:42
In reply to Deplin/Brooke, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2007, at 22:27:40
>It seems like I just started this hellish journey, since many of those years i faithfully took what he advised and this is the first year I started to take charge of my depression with requests for second opinions and different medications and so far I feel like it has made a big difference.
>
> Perhaps some of my recent recovery has been from this new role in researching new approaches to depression with vitamins and other less med focused treatment. Just being an active participant in my care rather than a passive one has made me stronger and more confident....My own thoughts exactly! You cant be passive if your somewhat treatment resistant!
>....or has this change been the sole result of Nardil. I think a little bit of both.
Again, I fully agree. Nardil is an excellent med when it works, but you cant just let it do ALL the work!
> I will post my Deplin results as they occur from week to week. Hopefully I will have good results to report.Good luck with it! I look forward to reading your success - fingers crossed!
Posted by stargazer2 on November 21, 2007, at 7:37:19
In reply to Re: Deplin/Brooke » stargazer2, posted by tecknohed on November 21, 2007, at 5:07:42
Posted by quasiloco on November 21, 2007, at 21:13:50
In reply to The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 19, 2007, at 23:56:30
as soon as I started taking nardil, I seem to have become hypersensitive to it's smell.
The pills stank, my urine and feces stank, and maybe BO, but I was just too overwhelmed by the other odors to notice.
the bathroom seemed permeated with that odor.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 22, 2007, at 1:26:59
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by quasiloco on November 21, 2007, at 21:13:50
> as soon as I started taking nardil, I seem to have become hypersensitive to it's smell.
>
> The pills stank, my urine and feces stank, and maybe BO, but I was just too overwhelmed by the other odors to notice.
>
> the bathroom seemed permeated with that odor.Yes thats exactly what I'm experiencing. The smell of Nardil coming out of me every where. Quite a embarassing reaction if you ask me. How long have you been on Nardil??? I have a feeling this will go away once our body's adapt. Im at 6weeks of taking nardil for the first time. The smell coming out of me is one of the worst side effects along with insomnia, anorgasmia and poor memory. Those are the only three side effects im dealing with now, the others have subsided. Im interested to hear more about the smell that you have noticed (what brand of nardil are you on? where are you from? do your pills smell potent?) What do you mean by "I was just too overwhelmed by the other odors to notice.." Your one of the first other then me to have spoke of this on this thread. Good luck with your Nardil, let me know more..
Nardilstarted
Posted by tecknohed on November 22, 2007, at 6:45:47
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it?, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 22, 2007, at 1:26:59
Hi mate!
Has Nardil actually kicked in yet? I ask because it might actually be worth considering cutting back on your dose a bit. Maybe to 60mg or even 45mg. This might help the smell go. Also, the Nardil dose needs to be very precise for it to work - not enough & it wont work, too much & it still might not work. Your own PERFECT dose may be lower than you think. My own most responsive dose was 75mg, & I even went up as far as 120mg at times which seemed counter-productive in the long run. Always ended up coming back to 75mg, though it actually first kicked in at 60mg.
Of course if it has kicked in then it might be best to leave the dosage, though if that is the case then 60mg might still work just as well. Would give you more 'room' for dose adjustment in the future too if you ever needed to increase.
Posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 23, 2007, at 20:05:51
In reply to Re: The 'Nardil Smell' do you have it? » Nardilstarted2007, posted by tecknohed on November 22, 2007, at 6:45:47
It means that Nardil is going through your body. Yes, it is a bummer for your bathroom waste to smell like that, but that is simply one of the things that goes along with Nardil. No worries at all.
Posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 23, 2007, at 20:22:53
In reply to Yes, the Nardil 'smell' is actually a good sign, posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 23, 2007, at 20:05:51
> It means that Nardil is going through your body. Yes, it is a bummer for your bathroom waste to smell like that, but that is simply one of the things that goes along with Nardil. No worries at all.
Hi, I'm glad to hear that its not such a bad thing other then the smell. Do you think it will diminish in time? Im at six weeks since starting nardil. It sure has curbed my social phobia but not much antidepressant effect which is good because im not taking it for depression. Taking it for severe SP, PD and just really bad GAD all together. All the SSRI's made me hypomanic and bipolar (they called it ssri induced mania which fluctuated like bipolar). I dont feel this at all on Nardil. I'm liking the fact that I have no SP anymore after just six weeks, but I still dont think I will be able to give a presentation at college without xanax and a beta-blocker or I'd have a Panic Attack still. Did you have the smell of nardil too?
Posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 24, 2007, at 2:48:59
In reply to Re: Yes, the Nardil 'smell' is actually a good sign » UGottaHaveHOPE, posted by Nardilstarted2007 on November 23, 2007, at 20:22:53
No, the "bad smell" of Nardil will not go away, but again that is good news because it means the Nardil is flowing through your body, which has to happen for it to work.
Have ever drank a lot of beer? Well, if so, when you urinate, it will smell like beer.
And it is hard to say Nardil has a "bad smell" when urine or human waste in its natural state does not have "good smell." So in essence it really doesn't matter how your human waste smells because it all has a "bad smell."
Im no pdoc, but Ive read bits and peices of your story and I think you may have some characteristics of Bipolar II, most notably the way SSRIs affected you in a hypomanic way. BPII is one of the hardest disorders to diagnose and you have to insist that your pdoc look at it, if your pdoc understands it. After 10 years, my pdoc is finally approaching me as someone with characteristics with BPII. And it was only at my insistence (SSRIs did nothing for me). You remind me of me in a few ways.
The good news is that one of the few AD's that works well for BPII and many, many other disorders is Nardil. Then after that, there are countless combos to try, most involving Lamictal or Seroquel.
Hang in there and I hope you give Nardil a full trial of 10-12 weeks. Michael
Here is a great site to read on BPII and Dr. Phelps will answer emails:
Posted by stargazer2 on November 25, 2007, at 10:46:49
In reply to Now think this out because it's not so bad » Nardilstarted2007, posted by UGottaHaveHOPE on November 24, 2007, at 2:48:59
You speak the truth Michael...
>>and it is hard to say Nardil has a "bad smell" when urine or human waste in its natural state does not have "good smell." So in essence it really doesn't matter how your human waste smells because it all has a "bad smell."
I just got a 3 new bottles of Nardil in it's Pfizer original container with an absorbent "can" or whatever it is called, for the moisture absorption. I sniffed the pills, as I habitually do, and they had absolutely NO SMELL, which is different from other bottles I have gotten.
In the past I have asked for the "can" for any bottle that didn't come with one, as this seemed to reduce the smell of the pills.
But like I said having an original Nardil bottle with a can in it is the first time I have not encounter Nardil pills that smell, so unless they degrade quickly and develop this smell over the next few weeks, that may be something to request from your the pharmacy. At the least ask for the "can " to be placed in a non-original bottle since this did reduce the smell before but not eliminate it entirely.
Just a suggestion...I personally don't notice alot of "nardil" smells coming from my body, so that may be what is reducing the problem for me.
That and bathing alot...only kidding you guys,
although since I have been feeling better on Nardil my bathing schedule has picked up. I'm back to a bit of obsessiveness, which can be a good thing when for so long this was not considered a high priority.Stargazer
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