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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2007, at 18:40:25
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age...., posted by rskontos on November 14, 2007, at 18:13:09
So if I'm not left handed and right handed I don't have mental illness? Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on November 14, 2007, at 19:28:41
In reply to Re: There are two kinds of lefthandedness, posted by rskontos on November 14, 2007, at 17:48:48
Its interesting that the study seemed to suggest that while the converted patients had some changes they could still be identified as being left handed.
Linkadge
Posted by rskontos on November 14, 2007, at 19:30:12
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age...., posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2007, at 18:40:25
no Phillipa, the studies are just saying that the gene they found is linked to some mental illness or predisposition to them and it is found to be the same gene as lefthandedness. So you might conclude that lefthandedness might mean you are more predisposed to mental illness however the studies all concluded that isn't true. They knew little about this gene that influences lefthandness. Mental illness affects all and this is just a step closer to finding something out about it but it is way too early to tell what exactly this information means. If you follow Linkadge's link in the previous posts you can read the study's results firsthand they are just interesting but not real definitive. I went on to look up more just because I found it interesting. Just another study to try and find out parts to a large puzzle. rk
Posted by linkadge on November 14, 2007, at 19:30:20
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age...., posted by rskontos on November 14, 2007, at 18:13:09
>Looking at 507 handprints from 26 caves in >France and Spain, they deduced that 23% of them >were right-handed, which indicated that they .were made by left-handers.
But, perhaps the left handed ones were more likely to be paining.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 14, 2007, at 19:31:40
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age...., posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2007, at 18:40:25
No, thats not what we're saying. I'm only wondering if mental illness occurs differently in left handed persons.
Linkadge
Posted by rskontos on November 14, 2007, at 19:34:47
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age.... » rskontos, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2007, at 19:30:20
Yeah, and then you can wonder why now are lefties less common. Could be evolution. I had always wondered if handness was dominant or recessive genes. Guess not. rsk
Posted by rskontos on November 14, 2007, at 19:36:18
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age.... » Phillipa, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2007, at 19:31:40
Phillipa, my mother and father are both mentally ill and both are right handed. So that definitely isn't what we are saying. rk
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2007, at 19:43:12
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age.... » Phillipa, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2007, at 19:31:40
Link how does it occurr differently? I've read the enclosed links but don't get it. Scizophrenia is mentioned twice. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2007, at 19:44:26
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age...., posted by rskontos on November 14, 2007, at 19:36:18
Rk I'm stupid cause I don't get it?????Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on November 15, 2007, at 11:42:33
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age.... » rskontos, posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2007, at 19:44:26
No Phillipa you aren't at all. All it is saying is the gene for lefties, The gene, LRRTM1, is the same gene they have found for psychotic mental illness too. So in theory you could say that if you are a left handed you might also have mental illness. But at the end of the article they said that isn't always the case. It is like saying as nurse you will get this....if you are exposed say to the cold virus do you always catch the virus no. Don't they say that all of us have the cancer virus in us. And it turns on in some but not all. So it is probably what this information means. The gene, LRRTM1, seems to be responsible for lefthandedness and mental illness but what they have in common is not known now. It is too early to suppose or predict what it means.
They have tons of more research to do first. That is all. It is just an interesting topic. Doesn't really mean alot yet. Dont worry Phillipa you are not stupid. rk
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2007, at 11:59:03
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age....phillip, posted by rskontos on November 15, 2007, at 11:42:33
Thanks rk. You are very smart. I just have a problem with theories maybe the left side of my brain doesn't work cause the right emotional side sure does. Love ya Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on November 15, 2007, at 13:44:26
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age....phillip » rskontos, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2007, at 11:59:03
Well see Phillipa that is the cool part in this study they found that in lefties brains the emotions are governed in the reverse of right handed people. So say if you are righthanded and your emotions are governed by your right side, I don't know just an example then in a left handed person it would be the reverse. I didn't realize that. I always thought that one side governed one group of skills while another side handled another group. But these studies showed that wasn't the case. Wild huh....which explains why when I was getting my degree at Vandy they found that people with certain reading disabilities had in fact been destined to be lefthanded instead of righthanded and instead teachers had made them right handed and messed up their processing of the written word. Wild huh. Another study showed that handedness is actually pre-determined inutero not after birth. That whatever thumb a fetus sucks prior to birth usually is the hand they write with. Almost 90% remained that way at 12 years old. Wild huh.....rk Oh yeah thanks about the smart part, I am not sure about that but thanks rk
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2007, at 19:07:14
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age....phillip, posted by rskontos on November 15, 2007, at 13:44:26
You are quite welcome and that is so interesting about the fetus and thumb so an ultrasound could show a family the dominant hand of a baby if sucking their thumb. Wasn't there an old study that when a baby was born the arm they held above their head while sleeping also was the dominant one? Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on November 15, 2007, at 19:17:25
In reply to Re: lefthandness more common in ice age....phillip » rskontos, posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2007, at 19:07:14
Hmm, I don't remember that one Phillipa, but here is the one I found,
Wednesday, 21 July, 2004, 23:59 GMT 00:59 UK
Preferred hand 'set in the womb'The hand you prefer to use as a 10-week-old foetus is the hand you will favour for the rest of your life, research suggests.
A team from Belfast's Queen's University studied foetuses in the womb, and after birth.Their findings challenge the widely held view that a child does not develop left or right-handedness until it is at least three years old.
The research is reported by New Scientist magazine.
In one part of their study, the Belfast team identified 60 foetuses who sucked their right thumb in the womb, and 15 who sucked their left thumb.
When the babies were examined again between the ages of 10 and 12, the researchers found all 60 of the right thumb suckers were now right-handed.
Two-thirds of the left thumb suckers were left handed, the rest apparently having switched their dominant hand.
" Is it body movement that shapes our brain development, not the other way round? "
Professor Peter Hepper
In another investigation the researchers found that nine out of 10 foetuses at just 15 weeks old preferred to suck their right thumb - mirroring the percentage of right and left-handed people in the general population.They also produced evidence suggesting foetuses begin to favour one hand over another at an even earlier stage.
At ten weeks old foetuses are too young to have begun to suck their thumb, but they do wave their hands about.
The Belfast team found the majority tend to wave their right arm more than their left.
Lead researcher Professor Peter Hepper said at 10 weeks movements are not under brain control or conscious control.
Nervous connections to the body from the brain are not thought to start developing until around 20 weeks' gestation.
Instead, Professor Hepper believes the arm movements are probably the result of local reflexes involving the spinal cord.
Opposite theory
One side may be favoured over the other, because it develops slightly faster, he believes.
Most experts believe that whether a person is left or right handed is a reflection how their brain develops.
The brain is effectively a double organ with two sides, each taking control of different functions.
But the Belfast team say their scans challenge this theory because they show that handedness appears long before the brain has any control over movement.
Professor Hepper speculates the reverse may be true: the foetus's body movements may somehow influence the way the brain develops, rather than the other way round.
He points out that the nerve connections from the body to the brain develop before the connections that allow the brain to control the body's movement.
Professor Hepper said: "Previous studies have linked our strong tendency to be right or left handed with brain asymmetries.
"The argument is that because the brain has specific functions associated with its left and right sides - for instance, speech centres are usually in the left brain, music and mathematics on the right - this somehow makes us unevenly one-handed.
"But our new work looking in the womb shows that foetuses prefer to use one arm or the other long before these movements come under brain control.
"This early activity is probably under muscle control, or controlled by nerves in the spinal cord.
"So is it body movement that shapes our brain development, not the other way round?"
Scepticism
Dr Stephen Wilson, a developmental biologist at University College London, is sceptical.
He said the movements seen in the womb are not necessarily an indication of which side of the body was likely to become dominant.
He said: "The movements you see in a foetus don't have to be influencing brain asymmetries."
Details of the research were presented at the Forum of European Neuroscience in Lisbon.
Anyway, I thought this was very interesting. As teachers we were always taught to teach parents to hold the spoon, fork or whatever at the center of the chest not to influence the child's handedness. This suggests it doesn't really matter. Fodder for thought.
rk
Posted by brooke484 on November 15, 2007, at 19:56:25
In reply to Mental illness and handedness (?), posted by linkadge on November 13, 2007, at 16:13:38
and then all of a sudden I couldn't write anymore (major stress in college). So I switched hands and have been right handed ever since. I tried to go back but never could.
brooke
Posted by linkadge on November 15, 2007, at 20:15:55
In reply to I was left handed for 21 years..., posted by brooke484 on November 15, 2007, at 19:56:25
Thats really strange. Did anything happen physically at that time. I mean, did you have any head injuries or something?
Thats the stangest thing I have heard.
Linkadge
Posted by brooke484 on November 15, 2007, at 20:31:35
In reply to Re: I was left handed for 21 years... » brooke484, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2007, at 20:15:55
I wish! That would explain why I'm so messed up. :) I just remember my stress level was out of control. Your typical college problems - didn't know what to major in, I was drinking too much, difficult classes... I remember my handwriting was getting worse and worse and I couldn't even read my notes after awhile. So one day I decided to try my right hand. It was actually easier than writing with my left (it was never before that time though) so I just kept writing with my right hand and now I'm right handed! I do miss writing with my left hand though. It is a mystery and doctors never could explain it. One thought I had a stroke, but I doubt it.
brooke
Posted by linkadge on November 15, 2007, at 22:19:12
In reply to linkadge, posted by brooke484 on November 15, 2007, at 20:31:35
Yeah, I was thinking that too. You might have had a mini stroke?
Hard to know.
Linkadge
Posted by clipper40 on November 16, 2007, at 6:06:08
In reply to Mental illness and handedness (?), posted by linkadge on November 13, 2007, at 16:13:38
I'm left-handed for writing but not for some other things. I'm not alcoholic. Some mental illness unfortunately.
Posted by rskontos on November 16, 2007, at 10:43:31
In reply to Re: Mental illness and handedness (?), posted by clipper40 on November 16, 2007, at 6:06:08
Brooke, that is really wild. I wonder if there are any other people that have done this too or if you are the only one. Did you test you for a mini-stroke.
Clipper I have some things I do right handed that attribute to right handed parents teaching me those skills. There is another article linked at the article Linkadge posted in list post above that discusses lefthandeder that switch. You should read it, it is interesting.
rk
Posted by clipper40 on November 16, 2007, at 23:30:30
In reply to Re: Mental illness and handedness (?), posted by rskontos on November 16, 2007, at 10:43:31
> Brooke, that is really wild. I wonder if there are any other people that have done this too or if you are the only one. Did you test you for a mini-stroke.
>
> Clipper I have some things I do right handed that attribute to right handed parents teaching me those skills. There is another article linked at the article Linkadge posted in list post above that discusses lefthandeder that switch. You should read it, it is interesting.
>
> rk
Yes, very interesting! I've been training myself to write with my right hand just for fun. If I broke my hand, I'd be able to use my right hand now (but the writing wouldn't look quite as nice and I have to go a bit slower). I wonder what my brain patterns would look like now.
C40
Posted by brooke484 on November 17, 2007, at 9:36:49
In reply to Re: Mental illness and handedness (?) » rskontos, posted by clipper40 on November 16, 2007, at 23:30:30
I've only had MRI's (I have a pituitary tumor), so no, I've never been tested to see if I had a stroke. It's strange that writing with my left hand today is like trying to write with my right years ago. I can't do it.
brooke
Posted by rskontos on November 18, 2007, at 12:58:59
In reply to Re: Mental illness and handedness (?) - rskontos, posted by brooke484 on November 17, 2007, at 9:36:49
Brooke that is strange. And the first time I ever heard of it. Really wild.
C40, I can write with both hands only because teachers insisted until mom told them to leave me alone. I imagine my brain would be screwy anyway LOL
Posted by Dinah on November 18, 2007, at 15:08:17
In reply to Re: Mental illness and handedness (?) - rskontos, posted by rskontos on November 18, 2007, at 12:58:59
With my son, different hands are dominant for different activities. He has been presented with the opportunity to learn both ways. So he writes left handed, but bats as a rightie, for example.
He also does things like draw from the feet up, or draw shapes and fill in the extras when presented with intersecting lines, instead of drawing the intersecting lines.
I've been trying to avoid the dire literature on the topic. After all, aren't left handed presidents also overrepresented for the population? I think I prefer thinking that his fresh approach to perception will lead him to make great strides in science or engineering.
Posted by rskontos on November 19, 2007, at 10:08:10
In reply to Scaring me :), posted by Dinah on November 18, 2007, at 15:08:17
Dinah, the literature isn't exact on the mental illness thing if that is what is scaring you. Both of my parents have some illness and both are or were right handed. They just found the links what it means it light years away. I think for me it was situational anyway. My dx is one that is situational I believe and I am like your son. I do different things with different hands. I am thinking if I was raised in a house with normal parents without the abuse and neglect I would be ok. I would not have the people in my head. If you look at my situation I could be worse and I am not. The way my brain helped me survive what happened kept me alive so that is good too. So don't be afraid. We only meant for this topic to be an interesting one. It has much to be done in the way of research before the scientists know what the information truly means. I read why reading this that lefthanded women tended to die early I keep reading and found more studies that refuted that. So you must always keep searching. No worries, your son will be fine!
rk
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