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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Amigan on September 27, 2007, at 19:53:09
Hi.
I see that clonazepam (klonopin) is much more popular than other benzodiazepines. Why is this? Does it have any pharmacological properties that other benzos lack?
What i know is that, all benzodiazepines have the same mode of action (more or less) and they only differ in 2 aspects: Half-life and potency. Right or wrong?
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 21:50:18
In reply to Clonazepam differs from other benzos?, posted by Amigan on September 27, 2007, at 19:53:09
Right and wierdly the pdocs seem to prefer it. But for some reason it depresses a lot of people me included. Only time I ever felt suicidal but wasn't if that makes sense was on klonopin. Called pdoc and he immediatedly put me back on xanax at the time. Now I take valium at night only. Phillipa
Posted by back4abit on September 27, 2007, at 22:44:20
In reply to Re: Clonazepam differs from other benzos? » Amigan, posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 21:50:18
> Right and wierdly the pdocs seem to prefer it. But for some reason it depresses a lot of people me included. Only time I ever felt suicidal but wasn't if that makes sense was on klonopin. Called pdoc and he immediatedly put me back on xanax at the time. Now I take valium at night only. Phillipa
Lol "weirdly",klonopin is a very succesful benzo.Valium is a much older drug,not to say it doesent hold much value.
Yes klonopin does have a unique chemistry,i dont have the link now,i have posted it before,which explains how it differs and is even considered by some to be a mood stablizer as well.
Xanax unlike klonopin comes on fast,and hard,and leaves just the same,making it ideal for just what it is mainly used for,panic attacks,i.e plane rides and actual situations causing panic.
Xanax is not ideal for general anxiet,GAD as its short half life makes it a liability for people with known addiction issues,and even those with none,hence youll hear the joke term popping xannies as opposed to popping klonopin.
Klonopin is like a back bone,so it does create a depression when starting,sometimes working close with the med and doc can lower this,sometimes its just a pahse u have to endure,but in most cases it will pass and the drug will be a benifit,as in some cases people simply cant take the med.
However to state WEIRDLY is humourous,it makes complete sense for a docter to consider klonopin,phillipa im sorry to tell you but in general valium,again not downplaying its benifit,its older and usualy not considered first before klonopin or ativan which would be the two common ones.How you see it as a weird thing is beyond me.
In my personal opinion,which is all it is nothing more,it usualy works as follows,
ATIVAN - to try to keep the patient on a milder one and still address and treat the gad.Klonopin - When the gad is disturbing life,and there is mood anger,and aggressive all day anxiety from social to various forms.Also seems to be used to augment meds that might cause excess stimulation.
Valium - is just a all around time proven med,although i personaly havent seen it first line in the many people i know on benzos and ones i speak to,i still view it as a solid efficient benzos in eyes of docs.
xanax - this might cause some disagreement,but although u have docs who throw this at you (personal opinion) most careful docs will avoid this unless you truly fit its profile.This is just what ive seen first hand.Not to be held as any solid medical information.
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 23:15:06
In reply to Re: Clonazepam differs from other benzos?, posted by back4abit on September 27, 2007, at 22:44:20
Was never addicting xanax or a high for me at one time I went down to .125mg daily. Only med I was on. The pdoc thought it was like a placebo for me but if I skipped more than one day anxiety crept back. No ad's at the time. It was when my thyroid went that everything in my body changed. Vertigo, high TSH 22 so 2mg IV ativan was administered in the ER as no one knew yet my thyroid was off. And I worked in this hospital. And the doc that put me on the xanax was the hospitals employee assitant pdoc only one you could see and the one who tried klonopin and took me off it. Valium when I was 24 and had my first panic attack was prescribed for me at that time. I can no longer take either xanax or ativan they make me too tired. Valium at bedtime only with low dose luvox is the only one I can take and the dose is the same as back in l976. To me klonopin is much stronger a med. Phillipa ps was also peri-menopausal at the time so many hormonal changes going on. No mind no body is the same.
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 23:23:13
In reply to Re: Clonazepam differs from other benzos? » back4abit, posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 23:15:06
Also I'm not angry only need the relaxing properties. Hence a nightime dose and one time dosing as it lasts for 24 hours. With a very long half-life isn't it 200 hours? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 23:43:16
In reply to Re: Clonazepam differs from other benzos?, posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 23:23:13
Question are you saying old is not good? As it seems the maoi's are being used frequently and they are older than valium. Also chloral hydrate from the l800's which i was on for years and discontinued easily. So I don't understand why old is not as good as new. Older meds have a safer track history as they haven't been pulled like vioxx for example. So I don't feel older is a factor in any med. Think of aspirin too. Phillipa ps do you have that link on klonopin? Would love to read it. Thanks
Posted by back4abit on September 28, 2007, at 0:13:40
In reply to Re: Clonazepam differs from other benzos? » back4abit, posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 23:15:06
> Was never addicting xanax or a high for me at one time I went down to .125mg daily. Only med I was on. The pdoc thought it was like a placebo for me but if I skipped more than one day anxiety crept back. No ad's at the time. It was when my thyroid went that everything in my body changed. Vertigo, high TSH 22 so 2mg IV ativan was administered in the ER as no one knew yet my thyroid was off. And I worked in this hospital. And the doc that put me on the xanax was the hospitals employee assitant pdoc only one you could see and the one who tried klonopin and took me off it. Valium when I was 24 and had my first panic attack was prescribed for me at that time. I can no longer take either xanax or ativan they make me too tired. Valium at bedtime only with low dose luvox is the only one I can take and the dose is the same as back in l976. To me klonopin is much stronger a med. Phillipa ps was also peri-menopausal at the time so many hormonal changes going on. No mind no body is the same.
Lol wow some fire,i dident think you had it in u.Well perhaps my post came across wrong,not everyone will become addicted to xanax,in fact its believed true anxiety sufferer are least to abuse these meds,THAT SAID lol xanax does have the pharmocology to be more addicting to people who might have an addictive personality.
Also because of its half life,its onset of action,and in some a slight euphoria it is considered one of the more addictive ones and i believe is actualy fda apporved for paniack attacks which is very dfferent from gad.
Nothing wrong wth your experiances,these drugs work different with everyone,as long as you found the best meds then who can argue that?
Good post.
Posted by back4abit on September 28, 2007, at 0:24:13
In reply to Re: Clonazepam differs from other benzos?, posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2007, at 23:43:16
> Question are you saying old is not good? As it seems the maoi's are being used frequently and they are older than valium. Also chloral hydrate from the l800's which i was on for years and discontinued easily. So I don't understand why old is not as good as new. Older meds have a safer track history as they haven't been pulled like vioxx for example. So I don't feel older is a factor in any med. Think of aspirin too. Phillipa ps do you have that link on klonopin? Would love to read it. Thanks
Absolutly not,im actualy vice versa.I believe that if all the meds were as consisent as the class of benzos were made to be so worried about worked as well wed be in a better place.
The only point i was referring to was how you said it was weird that docs prescribe klonopin,this so because first its just common that newer meds which klonopin would have been and is to valium are usualy used,second klonopin does indeed have a unique profile that helps many with gad.
Valium as well as most benzos have proved there value through test of time,i actualy believe thats a good thing.
I just believe they although similiar they all have there place,and i am a man of my word,its late i dont have the link around,but i will post for you the information describing how klonopin showed different to the common benzos by having a wider ranger of effect.But again i just feel because u have success with valium and dident with klonopin it seems u pus that off strongly when that isnt the case.
Tons of people rely on klonopin,i personaly do.
Bottom line to me is to find the one that helps,if it is done,then there is no debate or the like,that is the objective,to feel better,i just try not to down play other meds ive failed on and strongly advocate mine now because i know it varies,this is why youll hardly ever see me post on ssris,because i know i am partial and will just be a constant negative presence.I enjoyed both your posts,btw.
Posted by cactus on September 28, 2007, at 1:58:30
In reply to Re: Clonazepam differs from other benzos?, posted by back4abit on September 28, 2007, at 0:24:13
yes it does, but you have to remember that it is only true to north america as in prescribing habits, in regards to clonazepam. Most other countries steer well clear of it much preferring to prescribe valium instead, like the UK, Australia, New Zealand. etc... Strange that, valium is an excellent drug and I think it should be considered before such a strong drug like clonazepam even though I take it myself.
Posted by Amigan on September 28, 2007, at 5:30:07
In reply to Re: Clonazepam differs from other benzos?, posted by back4abit on September 28, 2007, at 0:24:13
@back4abit
Thanks in advance for the link you're about to post and for the info that you have provided.@Cactus
> yes it does, but you have to remember that it is only true to north america as in prescribing habits, in regards to clonazepam. Most other countries steer well clear of it much preferring to prescribe valium instead, like the UK, Australia, New Zealand. etc...That's right. I have notice that valium is much more popular in europe, indeed.
Posted by tecknohed on October 2, 2007, at 6:39:04
In reply to Clonazepam differs from other benzos?, posted by Amigan on September 27, 2007, at 19:53:09
> Hi.
> I see that clonazepam (klonopin) is much more popular than other benzodiazepines. Why is this? Does it have any pharmacological properties that other benzos lack?
> What i know is that, all benzodiazepines have the same mode of action (more or less) and they only differ in 2 aspects: Half-life and potency. Right or wrong?
>Seems clonazepam hase some effect on seretonin also:
Clonazepam appears to also have a secondary effect on the neurotransmitter serotonin.[8] It has shown itself to be highly effective as a short-term (3 weeks) adjunct to SSRI treatment in obsessive-compulsive disorder and clinical depression in reducing SSRI side effects with the combination being superior to SSRI treatment alone in a study funded by the manufacturers of clonazepam, Hoffman LaRoche Inc.[9] Similar results have been found with some other anxiety disorders, but the role of the serotonergic effects enhancing the action of the SSRI treatment remains unclear in these cases due to clonazepam's primary anxiolytic mechanism of action.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam
Probably why its No1 benzo choice for SP.
Posted by fuzz54 on October 3, 2007, at 11:56:01
In reply to Clonazepam differs from other benzos?, posted by Amigan on September 27, 2007, at 19:53:09
Clonazepam has an intial 2 to 4 hour reduction in anxiety and a general relaxation of the body. Then it causes drowsiness in many people due to its long half-life. For me this is a great mechanism to keep me from taking too much, since taking higher doses of Klonopin than prescribed doesn't really alleviate my anxiety better, but makes me much much drowsier later in the day. But it isn't as potent as something like Xanax which my girlfriend says works much better for panic attack and high stress induced anxiety. I would say through my informal research that there are subtle differences between the benzos with some better for anxiety, some better for social phobia, and some with shorter half-lives for panic attacks.
This is the end of the thread.
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