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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by med_empowered on August 21, 2005, at 13:55:50
In reply to Adderall 20 mg. (Oberol) and Biphetamine 20, posted by charlie-no-nose on August 20, 2005, at 16:54:05
Adderall, as you noted was originally Oberol, a diet drug introduced in the early 1960s. It was apparently kind of popular among some people (Andy Warhol and that crowd liked it), but it wasn't a blockbuster...in 1971, I think, amphetamines were res-scheduled from schedule III--->schedule II; gradually, prescriptions for amphetamines fell, new diet drugs were used (phentermine, phendimetrazine), and some of the old stand bys were withdrawn from the market (desbutal, dexamyl, eskatrol, etc...methedrine also dropped out of sight). Biphetamine was the infamous "black beauty" of the 1960s and 70s; it was popular for dieting and also for depression, general "fatigue," etc...apparently, it was abused more often than Dexedrine (my own guess is that Dexedrine was such a stand by, and Biphetamine a relatively new drug, that Biphetamine abuse was just *noticed* more often). I haven't heard of anyone being RX'd Biphetamine in a long time...I read someone's account of getting an RX from a pill-mill doctor in the late 1970s or early 1980s, but thats about it. At any rate, Adderall probably isn't any safer, less "addicitve" (*TRUE* addiction isnt all that common; the government and media use it interchangeably with "dependence," which is an entirely different situation) than Dexedrine, Desoxyn, or Biphetamine (or the old benzidrine pills) but...that's not the point these days, is it? In the mid-90s, shrinks wanted something shiny and new to treat ADHD, which was becoming a huge and profitable diagnosis for shrinks and the pharmaceutical industry. Ritalin and Dexedrine were effective, but old, and they had kind of "shady" reputations. And so...Adderall. Since its an old drug, the company could use the original data to support an FDA application; since its components are amphetamines that have been in use since the 30s, the company could also claim a "60 year history of proven efficacy". Best of all...the company could promote a drug *specifically* for ADHD, so even though its pretty much the same as Dexedrine, and almost identical to Biphetamine, public *perception*--and hence, doctor prescribing habits-- would reflect excitement and interest over this "new" option for ADHD that, though "new", had a "long history of safety and effectivesness". Basically, Adderall is the result of some brilliant marketing.
Posted by ed_uk on August 21, 2005, at 14:29:44
In reply to Re: Adderall 20 mg. (Oberol) and Biphetamine 20, posted by med_empowered on August 21, 2005, at 13:55:50
That's right, some brilliant marketing! .......and a general public who probably doesn't even realise it's an amphetamine.
I think they should invent a better controlled release version of Dexedrine. The spansules seem a bit iffy. If they have any sense they won't include Dexedrine in the name.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by alohashirt on August 21, 2005, at 23:30:16
In reply to Re: Adderall 20 mg. (Oberol) and Biphetamine 20 » med_empowered, posted by ed_uk on August 21, 2005, at 14:29:44
> That's right, some brilliant marketing! .......and a general public who probably doesn't even realise it's an amphetamine.
>
> I think they should invent a better controlled release version of Dexedrine. The spansules seem a bit iffy. If they have any sense they won't include Dexedrine in the name.
>
> Kind regards
>If they took the extended release technology in Concerta and applied it to dexedrine and named it "Symphony" I'm sure it would sell.
Posted by med_empowered on August 22, 2005, at 3:15:23
In reply to Re: Adderall 20 mg. (Oberol) and Biphetamine 20, posted by alohashirt on August 21, 2005, at 23:30:16
Hmmm...since Adderall is basically "ADD-erall", and "Concerta" is basically "Concentrate," and "Focalin" is "Focus," I think new and improved XR dexedrine should have a name that tells parents and teachers *this* is the med for their hyperactive kids. I'm thinking...."Sit down and shut the hell up XR"
What do you guys think?
Posted by ed_uk on August 22, 2005, at 16:38:37
In reply to Re: Adderall 20 mg. (Oberol) and Biphetamine 20, posted by med_empowered on August 22, 2005, at 3:15:23
LOL Med, it would be a blockbuster!!!!
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on August 22, 2005, at 16:40:19
In reply to Re: Adderall 20 mg. (Oberol) and Biphetamine 20, posted by alohashirt on August 21, 2005, at 23:30:16
>If they took the extended release technology in Concerta and applied it to dexedrine and named it "Symphony" I'm sure it would sell.
Hey! That's a great name. All the instruments of the orchestra in harmony.
~Ed
Posted by Paulbwell on August 22, 2005, at 23:51:51
In reply to Adderall 20 mg. (Oberol) and Biphetamine 20, posted by charlie-no-nose on August 20, 2005, at 16:54:05
BIPHETAMINE WAS AVAILABLE IN THE LATE 50S -60S AS A DIET CAPS ONlYY AND AVAILABLE IN EQUAL PARTS MATRIX, DEX AND AMPHETAMINE IN
:7.5mgs pills
:12.5mgs pills
:20mgs pills AKA Black beauties,They are no longer available, althought still listed on the DEA list, and had a 12 hour action, aimed at fat people.
Cheers
Posted by charlie-no-nose on August 23, 2005, at 13:06:25
In reply to BIPHETAMINE!!, posted by Paulbwell on August 22, 2005, at 23:51:51
How does the Biphetamine 20 differ from adderall 20 mg? Can you explain how they are still on the DEA list but not available?
Posted by Paulbwell on August 26, 2005, at 0:47:46
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE!! » Paulbwell, posted by charlie-no-nose on August 23, 2005, at 13:06:25
> How does the Biphetamine 20 differ from adderall 20 mg? Can you explain how they are still on the DEA list but not available?
Biphetamine was SR and became associated with extensive abuse- esp black beauties 20mg (Johnny Cash loved em) Adderall was reintroduced in 1996 as an ADD treatment and accepted, later availaable as SR, they are both HIGHLY abusable, IT'S ALL IN THE LEGAL DOPE COMPANYIES MARKETING, NOTHING MORE!!!
CHEERS
Posted by charlie-no-nose on August 27, 2005, at 13:43:50
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE!!, posted by Paulbwell on August 26, 2005, at 0:47:46
Forgive my denseness, but are you saying that there is virtually NO difference between Biphetamine 20 and Adderall XR, 20 mg, except for the drug companny advertising?
> > How does the Biphetamine 20 differ from adderall 20 mg? Can you explain how they are still on the DEA list but not available?
>
> Biphetamine was SR and became associated with extensive abuse- esp black beauties 20mg (Johnny Cash loved em) Adderall was reintroduced in 1996 as an ADD treatment and accepted, later availaable as SR, they are both HIGHLY abusable, IT'S ALL IN THE LEGAL DOPE COMPANYIES MARKETING, NOTHING MORE!!!
>
> CHEERS
Posted by Paulbwell on August 28, 2005, at 21:45:20
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE!! » Paulbwell, posted by charlie-no-nose on August 27, 2005, at 13:43:50
> Forgive my denseness, but are you saying that there is virtually NO difference between Biphetamine 20 and Adderall XR, 20 mg, except for the drug companny advertising?
>
>
>
>
> > > How does the Biphetamine 20 differ from adderall 20 mg? Can you explain how they are still on the DEA list but not available?
> >
> > Biphetamine was SR and became associated with extensive abuse- esp black beauties 20mg (Johnny Cash loved em) Adderall was reintroduced in 1996 as an ADD treatment and accepted, later availaable as SR, they are both HIGHLY abusable, IT'S ALL IN THE LEGAL DOPE COMPANYIES MARKETING, NOTHING MORE!!!
> >
> > CHEERS
>
>Yes there yer differences, 'Black Beauties'-BIPHETAMINE 20mg, were well known for abuse, and were a hardened matrix of Amphetamine mixes which lasted 10 hours, the same i guess as Adderall XR, both contain 10mgs l-Amphetamine and 10mgs D-Amphetamine.
It's all in the media fokelore and celebrity use circles, both are VERY similar, BUT were somewhat different. Media demonanisation i guess, both ARE abusable, BUT have legitamate medical users, which unfortunately some folks enjoy the effects of somewhat.
Cheers
Posted by TheMagicPill on August 30, 2005, at 2:09:25
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE!!, posted by Paulbwell on August 28, 2005, at 21:45:20
Im not sure
Posted by Paulbwell on August 31, 2005, at 20:46:30
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE!!, posted by TheMagicPill on August 30, 2005, at 2:09:25
> Im not sure
BIPHETAMINE contained (Black Beauties 20mgs) contained 10mgs Levo Amphetamine and 10 mgs Dextroamphetamine in a hardened matrix which lasted for 10 hours, (Johnny cash, Scott Baio) abused em, Adderall containes 4 different salts of Aphetamine:
-Dextroamphetamine sulphate
-Dextroamphetamine Saccirate
-Amphetamine Aspartate
-Amphetamine AspartateReleased at 2, 4 hour durations, (XR). (IR) was a 4 hour medication-hence why MANY people take it 4x a day. It was assumed Biphetamine (mainly aimed at fat people) had more abuse potential , i guess, or was replaced by Adderall by the big Dope companies,(in colabration with the DEA) who wanted their ADD/HD meds to make more $.
Pills and western medicine is about $$ first, then patient welfare second. Thats the way it sadly is, $$ talk, Patients can walk-or crawal to death.
Cheers
Posted by charlie-no-nose on August 31, 2005, at 21:17:01
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE!!, posted by Paulbwell on August 31, 2005, at 20:46:30
> > Im not sure
>
> BIPHETAMINE contained (Black Beauties 20mgs) contained 10mgs Levo Amphetamine and 10 mgs Dextroamphetamine in a hardened matrix which lasted for 10 hours, (Johnny cash, Scott Baio) abused em, Adderall containes 4 different salts of Aphetamine:
> -Dextroamphetamine sulphate
> -Dextroamphetamine Saccirate
> -Amphetamine Aspartate
> -Amphetamine Aspartate
>
> Released at 2, 4 hour durations, (XR). (IR) was a 4 hour medication-hence why MANY people take it 4x a day. It was assumed Biphetamine (mainly aimed at fat people) had more abuse potential , i guess, or was replaced by Adderall by the big Dope companies,(in colabration with the DEA) who wanted their ADD/HD meds to make more $.
>
> Pills and western medicine is about $$ first, then patient welfare second. Thats the way it sadly is, $$ talk, Patients can walk-or crawal to death.
>
>
> Cheers
>
Thank you for the information on the differences between Biphetamine 20 and Adderall XR 20. I believe you made a typographical error in that you repeated "amphetamine aspartate" twice; the second should have read "amphetamine sulfate". I have recently moved to a very small town in Texas and the doctor I am seeing is quite willing to prescribe what I ask. I saw him today and discussed whether "Biphetamine 20" was still available. He didn't know but gave me his permission to discuss this with the local pharmacist, which I will do tomorrow. In the meantime, he changed my "Adderall 10mg bid" to "Adderall XR 20 qd". I've had my first doseage and seem to be receiving good benefits from that--the other seemed to stop working before the month was over. So wish me luck on both accounts! I share your opinion of the pharmaceutical companies!
Posted by charlie-no-nose on August 31, 2005, at 22:53:32
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE!!, posted by Paulbwell on August 31, 2005, at 20:46:30
I came across another drug, "DELCOBESE", which I am sure was developed for obesity, but instead of "Amphetamine Aspartate,"and "Dextroamphetamine Saccharate," it contains "Amphetamine ADIPATE" and "Dextroamphetamine ADIPATE." Only the "SULFATE" remains the same as with "Adderall XR" and "Biphetamine 20." Do you have any ideas how this may change the effects of the drug? Does anyone actually take this? or is it like "Biphetamine 20"--listed by the FDA, but not actually on the market? charlie-no-nose
Posted by Paulbwell on August 31, 2005, at 23:31:22
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE and DELCOBESE » Paulbwell, posted by charlie-no-nose on August 31, 2005, at 22:53:32
> I came across another drug, "DELCOBESE", which I am sure was developed for obesity, but instead of "Amphetamine Aspartate,"and "Dextroamphetamine Saccharate," it contains "Amphetamine ADIPATE" and "Dextroamphetamine ADIPATE." Only the "SULFATE" remains the same as with "Adderall XR" and "Biphetamine 20." Do you have any ideas how this may change the effects of the drug? Does anyone actually take this? or is it like "Biphetamine 20"--listed by the FDA, but not actually on the market? charlie-no-nose
Hi Ya!
I am almost certain Biphetamine is NOT available for the average consumer nowdays, they were extensively marketed in the late 50s 60s for Obesity, in 7.5, 12.5 and 20mg Capsules LA.
I have been interested in, and read extensively about Stimulants for a couple years now (I take Ritalin Sublingually)and have NEVER heard of:
Dextroamphetamine or Amphrtamine "Adipate" NEVER!.If you are in the lucky position of having a Doc who will script what you want then, have you tried Dexedrine Spansules, 5 10 15mg? IR Tabs 5 mg? MANY report these to be smoother and less Somatically activating.
If your Doc is open to it, then perhaps you could try 'Desoxyn' "Medical Methamphetamine" tabs 5mg IR, which have the greatest CNS to SNS effects of ALL the stims, they also release Serotonin and are the often held domain of 'the stimulant tolarant' patient.
If Adderall does it for you, then perhaps you could take a Urinary alkinalising agent: eg Sodium bicorbarb, type product,-Ural, Tums etc,B4 and after, to reduce Stomach acid, and heighten, prolong, the effects, of the Stim, which many report works well.
Cheers
Posted by charlie-no-nose on September 1, 2005, at 0:21:07
In reply to Charlie no nose » charlie-no-nose, posted by Paulbwell on August 31, 2005, at 23:31:22
I am almost certain Biphetamine is NOT available for the average consumer nowdays, they were extensively marketed in the late 50s 60s for Obesity, in 7.5, 12.5 and 20mg Capsules LA.
>
Dextroamphetamine or Amphrtamine "Adipate" NEVER!.
>
> If you are in the lucky position of having a Doc who will script what you want then, have you tried Dexedrine Spansules, 5 10 15mg? IR Tabs 5 mg? MANY report these to be smoother and less Somatically activating.
>
> If your Doc is open to it, then perhaps you could try 'Desoxyn' "Medical Methamphetamine" tabs 5mg IR, which have the greatest CNS to SNS effects of ALL the stims, they also release Serotonin and are the often held domain of 'the stimulant tolarant' patient.
>
> If Adderall does it for you, then perhaps you could take a Urinary alkinalising agent: eg Sodium bicorbarb, type product,-Ural, Tums etc,B4 and after, to reduce Stomach acid, and heighten, prolong, the effects, of the Stim, which many report works well.
>
>
>Thank you for both the information and the suggestions. I did mention to my doc today that if the Adderall XR didn't work this month than I would like to try Desoxyn next month and he seemed agreeable to this. My pharmacist is a Compound Pharmacist, so I was considering asking him if he could replicate the Biphetamine if, indeed, it can't be obtained otherwise. Assuming he is amenable, do you think this could be done? For what do you take Ritalin? I have taken it in the past, but generally prefer the amphetamines.
>
charlie-no-nose
Posted by Paulbwell on September 1, 2005, at 6:04:52
In reply to BIPHETAMINE 20 and DELCOBESE » Paulbwell, posted by charlie-no-nose on September 1, 2005, at 0:21:07
> Thank you for both the information and the suggestions. I did mention to my doc today that if the Adderall XR didn't work this month than I would like to try Desoxyn next month and he seemed agreeable to this. My pharmacist is a Compound Pharmacist, so I was considering asking him if he could replicate the Biphetamine if, indeed, it can't be obtained otherwise. Assuming he is amenable, do you think this could be done? For what do you take Ritalin? I have taken it in the past, but generally prefer the amphetamines.
> >
> charlie-no-nose
>Hi Ya!
I was originally scripted Ritalin 10mgs 2x daily for "add/hd" which initially greatly stimulated me, then calmed me to a beacon, Ritalin works as an anti-depressant, treats ADD/HD, Narcolepsy and helps Alzheimese patients. After sever bad experiences with SSRIs I seemed to stick AND want the Ritalin it was calming, but at 80mgs now less so. I would LOVE to try the superior Dextroamphetamine,(Monoamine release AND reuptake) which is only available in 5mg IR here so....maybe
Most people who have been lucky enought to try Desoxyn sem to prefer it, to other Stimulants (I would LOVE to try it)so perhaps you c ould give this VERY effective medication a trial for your ailments.
If a pharmacist could compound 10mgs Amphetamine Sulphate+10mgs Dextroamphetamine Sulphate in a LA form this may well be a goood trial of a VERY popular bygone med so, perhaps you could check this out-may well (depending on what your intended usage) be ideal, Althought i would plum for the Desoxyn, which is safe and effective for long term use (know of patients using it for decades to treat their ails)
Cheers
Posted by med_empowered on September 1, 2005, at 15:26:38
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE 20 and DELCOBESE, posted by Paulbwell on September 1, 2005, at 6:04:52
hey. Biphetamine seems to have been used for both psychiatric stuff and weight problems, but I think the emphasis was on weight issues. In the 50s and 60s, all kinds of amphetamine compounds hit the market...I bought an old ad for one that even had some vitamins added to it, kind of like breakfast in a pill. Anyway, Biphetamine seems to have been kind of like the ultimate old-school amphetamine: Benzedrine, which started as an inhaler and was later used for weight loss and what not. Having your pharmacist re-make Biphetamine for you sounds like a cool idea..I'd really like to know how this "obsolete" drug stacks up to adderall and dexedrine. I think the Desoxyn could be a good call...if your doc will go for it, mixing stimulants helps some people...some people who take mostly Ritalin will take a small amount of amphetamine and vice versa. It seems like it'd be needlesly expensive and complicated, but it does seem to help some people. Good luck!
Posted by Paulbwell on September 1, 2005, at 17:52:49
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE 20 and DELCOBESE, posted by med_empowered on September 1, 2005, at 15:26:38
> hey. Biphetamine seems to have been used for both psychiatric stuff and weight problems, but I think the emphasis was on weight issues. In the 50s and 60s, all kinds of amphetamine compounds hit the market...I bought an old ad for one that even had some vitamins added to it, kind of like breakfast in a pill. Anyway, Biphetamine seems to have been kind of like the ultimate old-school amphetamine: Benzedrine, which started as an inhaler and was later used for weight loss and what not. Having your pharmacist re-make Biphetamine for you sounds like a cool idea..I'd really like to know how this "obsolete" drug stacks up to adderall and dexedrine. I think the Desoxyn could be a good call...if your doc will go for it, mixing stimulants helps some people...some people who take mostly Ritalin will take a small amount of amphetamine and vice versa. It seems like it'd be needlesly expensive and complicated, but it does seem to help some people. Good luck!
^sesond that^
"Anyway, Biphetamine seems to have been kind of like the ultimate old-school amphetamine: Benzedrine, which started as an inhaler and was later used for weight loss and what not. "-----Perhaps if Elvis had done some Benzedrine,(instead of JUST Dex) he may not have had the weight issues he had later on?
Cheers
Posted by charlie-no-nose on September 1, 2005, at 19:33:40
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE 20 and DELCOBESE, posted by Paulbwell on September 1, 2005, at 6:04:52
I have had the extremely frustrating experience or being near the end of a long message in response to your next to last message, only to have it suddenly disappear into cyberspace; this is the second time in as many days. It could probably be retrieved by someone more computer literate than I, but I don't have the slightest idea what to do. I also don't have the ambition to repeat what I wrote. I did discuss trying the Selegiline Transdermal System--my doc is going to research this and will let me know in the next two weeks if he is ok with trying it. Any thoughts on this? charlie-no-nose
Posted by Paulbwell on September 4, 2005, at 23:10:11
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE 20, et al » Paulbwell, posted by charlie-no-nose on September 1, 2005, at 19:33:40
> I have had the extremely frustrating experience or being near the end of a long message in response to your next to last message, only to have it suddenly disappear into cyberspace; this is the second time in as many days. It could probably be retrieved by someone more computer literate than I, but I don't have the slightest idea what to do. I also don't have the ambition to repeat what I wrote. I did discuss trying the Selegiline Transdermal System--my doc is going to research this and will let me know in the next two weeks if he is ok with trying it. Any thoughts on this? charlie-no-nose
Selegiline is helpfull to some, but if Adderall is helping, then perhaps you could have a mixture of LA Caps and IR tabs thru the day. The best is still Desoxyn (and i know of a patient on Desoxyn SR,Gradumets 15mgs 4-5 in morning,-pre 2001, and IR now 4-5mgs tabs 4x daily=80mgs for 40years+)so if you could try this, you would work out whether the stims are right for you?
Cheers
Posted by charlie-no-nose on September 5, 2005, at 8:31:23
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE 20, et al, posted by Paulbwell on September 4, 2005, at 23:10:11
Thank you again for the extremely helpful information. I seem to be able to find the most useful and comprehensible information on this subject from you than from any other source.
I have been on Adderall for four days now and it is working beautifully! I just hope this continues although I will be open to asking my doc to try some of the combinations you mentiion; at present, however, he is vacationing in Italy, so it will be month before I can consult.
I am a retired clinical social worker and will be going to Mississippi in the next few days as a Red Cross volunteer. This will be marvelously therapeutic for me (My lifelong mild-moderate depression has become severe since not working.) I don't think I could have even gone through the process of making the volunteer arrangements if it weren't for the Adderall. Part of my telling you this is to let you know that I may be off the computer for some time; when I return I hope you will continue to respond to my messages--as I mentioned, your help has been invaluable. charlie-no-no
Posted by Paulbwell on September 6, 2005, at 15:03:19
In reply to Re: BIPHETAMINE 20, et al » Paulbwell, posted by charlie-no-nose on September 5, 2005, at 8:31:23
> I have been on Adderall for four days now and it is working beautifully! I just hope this continues although I will be open to asking my doc to try some of the combinations you mentiion; at present, however, he is vacationing in Italy, so it will be month before I can consult.
>
> I am a retired clinical social worker and will be going to Mississippi in the next few days as a Red Cross volunteer. This will be marvelously therapeutic for me (My lifelong mild-moderate depression has become severe since not working.) I don't think I could have even gone through the process of making the volunteer arrangements if it weren't for the Adderall. Part of my telling you this is to let you know that I may be off the computer for some time; when I return I hope you will continue to respond to my messages--as I mentioned, your help has been invaluable. charlie-no-no
>
>Hi Ya,
Glad to hear that the Adderall is working, althought 4 days is a short period, one usually knows whether the stimulants are right for them or not at a given dose in days. I remember when first starting Ritalin i found it very stimulating which, after a while settled down and calmed me.
It seems with the stimulants they either continue working as well as in the beginning or poop out completly,(where they either change dosage or stimulant or rotate them) most people fall somewhere in between this,Enjoy your working holiday, and i hope you can help thoes folks out.
Cheers
Posted by charlie-no-nose on September 29, 2007, at 17:39:13
In reply to Adderall 20 mg. (Oberol) and Biphetamine 20, posted by charlie-no-nose on August 20, 2005, at 16:54:05
Is anyone still around? I'm still battling with the same old demons. Am currently being prescribed Desoxyn for depression. The Selegiline Patch is now available. Am trying to convince my prescriber that mixing the two won't cause me to die of a hypertensive episode. I have found only one reference to the two being prescribed together--does anyone have any information on this.
This is the end of the thread.
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