![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 908 to 932 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by Andre Levy on November 14, 2006, at 0:32:12
In reply to Re: Sean/andrewb and Susan. Hints for your down days!, posted by Sean on August 9, 1999, at 12:18:56
You're right on the money, Sean. Have a look at these findings:
Dark Therapy
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/darkrx.htmBipolar Disorder, Light, and Darkness
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/LightDark.htm> Thanks for the tips. From everything I've read,
> the AD's do quicken the cycle. I can actually
> feel my circadian clock shift earlier and earlier
> (usually my clock is getting later and later)
> and then I need to stop for a few days.
>
> The depression side is the main problem for me
> too. When I get hyper ideas, I just don't do anything
> for a couple of weeks. If it still looks good,
> then I pursue it. Of course by the time I realized
> my moods were driving everything, I'd already
> dropped in and out of grad school twice... I
> would be willing to bet most people with strong
> mood cycles have "colorful" academic histories.
>
> I gained lots of weight on Lithium, and it seemed
> to work better for the ups than the downs. The
> magic combo was Li + TCA for a while but I
> developed heart arrythmias, which while not life
> threatening, were not fun and gave me headaches
> from the changes in blood pressure or something.
>
> Am thinking about the light therapy thing. I'm
> pretty convinced that part of what is going on is
> a dysregulation of the circadian clocks, so
> anything that can help stabilize that might be
> key. It's always too much sleep or too little!
>
> Gotta go now,
>
> Sean.
Posted by cecilia on November 16, 2006, at 2:56:20
In reply to Re: Is it common for bipolar to remain undiagnosed?, posted by cecilia on November 26, 2005, at 3:59:52
> As we all know, psychiatric theories come and go and one of the latest seems to be that depression that doesn't respond to AD's must really be bipolar. My question-how many mood stabilizers (and which ones are best) for proving or disapproving this theory? I haven't tried nearly as many mood stabilizers as I have AD's, just gabapentin and lamictal (and a brief trial of lithium, but I didn't like throwing up every morning-if I'm going to have morning sickness I should at least get a baby out of it). Oh, and clonazepam, which I guess is a mood stabilizer in large does, though not in the small dose I take (1.5 mg/day). Is there really any point in trying tons of different mood stabilizers just in case you might be bipolar? I'll have to see if the book Katia mentioned is available from the library. The Amazon review of it was pretty negative, though, and it sounded like it was mainly concerned with alcoholism, which isn't an issue for me. Cecilia
I see I wrote this post a year ago. Since then have been through Marplan and Emsam with negative results. Haven't tried any more mood stabilizers, though I take Neurontin for neuropathy, though I'm not sure it does anything, and still on clonazepam 1.5 mg/day, though I tried doubling the dose for a couple weeks and didn't notice the slighest difference. I read the book "Why Your Depression Isn't Getting Better" and basically the author said if you've only tried mood stabilizers with an AD you haven't really tried them. As far as I can see I have no bipolar symptoms other than anxiety and insomnia and chronic (lifelong) depression. And messed up circadian rhythms, I definitely have that. I was taking Celexa and trazodone when I tried Lamictal, so according to his theory I haven't really tried it. I really can't see trying it again though. I see my doctor Friday and I'm trying to decide what to suggest. He's long since run out of ideas for me and generally goes along with whatever I suggest, though he's supposedly the "expert' on treatment resistant depression at my HMO. After the horrible Emsam effects I said ok, I've tried every AD there is, no more. I'm wondering if I should go with the "anxious atypical TRD is really bipolar theory" and suggest another mood stabilizer trial, perhaps trileptal. I'm very overweight, have diabetes, and arthritis, cannot gain any more weight. Or maybe just concentrate on the anxiety component, see if my doctor would be willing to trial a switch from the useless clonazepam to another benzo, maybe diazepam, though I'm not sure he'd be willing to do that. The third possibility is one more AD, Prozac, in a very small dose, when I 1st tried it in 1990 only the 20 mg capsules were available and the anxiety/ insomnia were horrendous, but maybe a 5 mg dose would be tolerable, though I can't see why it would help if no other AD has. Any suggestions? Anyone found Lamictal more helpful alone than with an AD? It certainly wasn't like the Celexa and trazodone I was taking it with were making me manic! I do not respond well to stimulating drugs, though, so maybe the increased anxiety/insomnia that so many other AD's have caused in me really are subtle signs of mania. The endless Abilfy advertisements keep trying to convince everyone they really must be bipolar and Abilify is the solution but I'm terrifed of the agitation/anxiety it's supposed to cause. A brief trial of Zyprexa years ago had no benefit and in general I really would rather avoid AP's. Cecilia
Posted by cecilia on November 17, 2006, at 3:20:33
In reply to Treatment Resistant Depression-Suggestions?, posted by cecilia on November 16, 2006, at 2:56:20
Actually the book I read was"Why Am I still Depressed?" by Jim Phelps. I haven't read "Why Your Depression Isn't Getting Better" by Michael Bartos. I'll have to look into that one, though it sounds much the same. I just can't help but think that all this about the "bipolar spectrum" etc. has more to do with AD's going generic and lots of expensive new drugs for bipolar. In a few years the drug companies will come out with some new type of drugs and a whole new theory to sell them with. It's just so frustrating. I get so angry when I read articles about how "treatable" depression is. For a lot of us it's NOT treatable, or at least not helpable. I have no expectation that my pdoc will have more suggestions for me than anyone here has, and I get so terrified before my appointments, but I have to go if I want him to renew my sleeping pill prescriptions. Cecilia
Posted by Caedmon on November 19, 2006, at 16:15:31
In reply to Light Therapy, Dark Therapy!, posted by Andre Levy on November 14, 2006, at 0:32:12
> You're right on the money, Sean. Have a look at these findings:
>
> Dark Therapy
> http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/darkrx.htm
>
> Bipolar Disorder, Light, and Darkness
> http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/LightDark.htm
>I think this is very interesting. Light has a profound effect on my mood (not enough, or too much too long), as does dark.
I also find that circadian rhythms play a big role in how I feel. I can vastly decrease depression by simply denying myself some sleep in the morning, and if I do this long enough and keep the hours of sleep short enough, hypomania almost always will follow. Or, I can crash right into depression by just taking a hypnotic and then sleeping in for a few hours.
If I have been feeling depressed, I will often wake myself at ~ 4:00 a.m. with the dawn simulator and an alarm clock (and a caffeine pill, lol). Then I turn on a light box/ therapy lamp and sit in front of it for about 45 minutes (maybe goof off on the computer or something). I stay awake the day through, sometimes resorting to caffeine again, sometimes I don't need to. My depression will remit 80% of the time if I do this; anxiety, perhaps 50% of the time.
- Chris
Posted by Jeroen on March 23, 2007, at 21:49:28
In reply to Re: how long until your system is clean of seroquel » justina, posted by ed_uk on February 12, 2006, at 14:55:28
haha ed... non of their biz
if lucky swallows a seroquel tablet by accident, it sure is my business
Posted by bipolarized on August 9, 2007, at 22:50:27
In reply to Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by andrewb on August 7, 1999, at 10:33:51
Hi,
I was just diagnosed two days ago with cyclothymia and was placed on 300mg of Neurontin. I've just found loads of info on the internet (lawsuits for the company that makes it for illigally marketing it to psychiatrists despite it not being authorized to treat bipolar spectrum disorders by the FDA).
Has anyone had any experience being on Neurontin (Gabapentin)?
I am worried that it will be a waste of my time.
Posted by rina on August 11, 2007, at 19:06:32
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by bipolarized on August 9, 2007, at 22:50:27
Yes, I tried and didn't like Neurontin but loved Lyrica which is used for bipolar patients as well. The low dose is sedating but the high dose does the trick of treatment wonderfully. Unfortunately,I just couldn't tolerate the tingling sensations. Now with the neurontin. The tingling sensation of my hands and legs were unbearable as well as the weight gain. Plus the tiredness all the time and to top it off it did absolutely nothing by way of treatment. Just my experience.
Posted by Shanner on August 12, 2007, at 10:44:31
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by rina on August 11, 2007, at 19:06:32
Was the Lyrica helpful for anxiety? Also, do you happen to know if it's safe with maoi's (Parnate)? Does the Lyrica cause much weight gain?
Posted by barbaracat on August 12, 2007, at 15:30:19
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by bipolarized on August 9, 2007, at 22:50:27
I like Gabapentin, i.e., Neurontin, very much. I have fibromyalgia and am bipolar. I don't take it all the time because it tends to lose potency pretty quickly, however, it calms and relaxes me unlike anything else.
I've tried Lyrica and just got sleepy and a little depressed. I guess I don't take it so much for pain relief, which it has little effect on, or for stabilizing my bipolar moods. Mainly just to experience the calm, tranquility I can get from taking 3 pills every now and then.
Posted by rina on August 15, 2007, at 14:03:10
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by Shanner on August 12, 2007, at 10:44:31
I'm not sure if it's safe with Parnate,ask your pdoc about that but yes it does help with anxiety to the max and unfortunately, yes it does cause a little bit of weight gain.
Posted by Cyclothymic on September 16, 2007, at 0:03:33
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Carter on December 14, 2001, at 14:50:40
Thanks for your insight!
After a lifetime (well, I'm 33) of knowing something was wrong with me but never addressing it, I have come to learn through therapy, a shrink and research that I am definitely cyclothymic. I am predisposed to it as my mother is Bipolar I (Manic Depressive) (see http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-md03.html), but I medicated myself with marijuana for the last 12 years -- partly because of the fact I did not have health insurance and did not want to pay for therapy, and partly because of the fact I didn't realize how strong my addiction to pot was. I have not smoked for the past two months -- although I think about it all the time because I had come to associate it with making every enjoyable occasion even better -- and I do not want to resume smoking.
Due to job-related stress that has impacted my marriage and finances, I have been having major anxiety issues, sleep problems and just everyday anger, negativity, irritability and anxiety. But I now have good health ins. coverage through my wife and am finally addressing my issues.
After reading up on bipolar all over the net, I am concerned about my shrink's decision to put me solely on Wellbutrin, as I have read that antidepressants alone can actually spark a hypomanic episode. I have only recently started taking it, and only a low dosage so I haven't really seen the effects yet. I am curious as to if there is anyone out there who is taking solely wellbutrin for cyclothymia and how it is working out, or if they are taking it in combination with something else that is working effectively. I DO NOT want to take something that is going to make me gain weight or become drowzy.
If anyone can chime with their experiences, I really would appreciate it.
Sincerely,
KT
Posted by bipolarized on September 16, 2007, at 6:19:08
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Cyclothymic on September 16, 2007, at 0:03:33
I was diagnosed w/ Cyclothymia a month ago and was put first on Gabapentin, then on Depakene. Both drugs triggered a severe suicidal depression unlike any I have ever experienced. My shrink claims I'm just one of those rare people who have paradoxical reactions to anti-convlusant mood stabilizers. Personally I think he is a dumb-*ss.
Now I've been told to stay away from all mood stabilizers and just stay my normal self (sometimes a little over-talkative and other times somewhat anti-social).
Before I was diagnosed a cyclothymic I had been taking Wellbutrin (to quit smoking) and I had mild hypomanic reactions (like talking alot, working long hours, and losing weight).
I highly reccomend Wellbutrin since it didn't seem to have any major effect on me from my normal state, just enhanced my mood a tiny bit. It took away my normal (med free) occaisional anti-social moods also, and I did seem more cheerful.
Still, I'm staying away from all meds for now.
I'm still getting over the shock of what the anti-convulsant mood stablizers did to me. It was weird. It was like I was taking depression pills or something.Good luck
> Thanks for your insight!
>
> After a lifetime (well, I'm 33) of knowing something was wrong with me but never addressing it, I have come to learn through therapy, a shrink and research that I am definitely cyclothymic. I am predisposed to it as my mother is Bipolar I (Manic Depressive) (see http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-md03.html), but I medicated myself with marijuana for the last 12 years -- partly because of the fact I did not have health insurance and did not want to pay for therapy, and partly because of the fact I didn't realize how strong my addiction to pot was. I have not smoked for the past two months -- although I think about it all the time because I had come to associate it with making every enjoyable occasion even better -- and I do not want to resume smoking.
>
> Due to job-related stress that has impacted my marriage and finances, I have been having major anxiety issues, sleep problems and just everyday anger, negativity, irritability and anxiety. But I now have good health ins. coverage through my wife and am finally addressing my issues.
>
> After reading up on bipolar all over the net, I am concerned about my shrink's decision to put me solely on Wellbutrin, as I have read that antidepressants alone can actually spark a hypomanic episode. I have only recently started taking it, and only a low dosage so I haven't really seen the effects yet. I am curious as to if there is anyone out there who is taking solely wellbutrin for cyclothymia and how it is working out, or if they are taking it in combination with something else that is working effectively. I DO NOT want to take something that is going to make me gain weight or become drowzy.
>
> If anyone can chime with their experiences, I really would appreciate it.
>
> Sincerely,
> KT
Posted by rina on September 16, 2007, at 16:13:43
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by bipolarized on September 16, 2007, at 6:19:08
Yeah I totally agree with you on the Depakote. My doc said I was one of the few as well that this medicine stopped the cycling but took me too low which caused a state of severe depression. Then he switched me to a combo of lamictal/topamax and my mood has been wonderful ever since.
Posted by bipolarized on September 16, 2007, at 17:33:43
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers » bipolarized, posted by rina on September 16, 2007, at 16:13:43
It's so funny because I was able to find some research online that reported a higher incidence of suicidal thoughts within the first few weeks of people taking Depakote or Depakene. My doctor claimed to have never heard about this, but he works for a sucky HMO. I've since dumped the HMO and switched to another health insurer but have yet to meet my new doctor. I'm looking forward to getting a 2nd opinion on all of this.
It took me having to experience true depression on those meds before I realized how good I had it without meds. My normal moods are never that extreme,and I'm alot more comfortable being a little quircky than before this awful experience.
Cool to hear you found a good med balance.
I'm eventually going to investigate whether any other meds will work for me, but I'm gonna wait until I get a 2 month vacation from my job before I try anything else. I want to give myself a window of time to adjust to any med that they want me to try.Thanks for your response.
> Yeah I totally agree with you on the Depakote. My doc said I was one of the few as well that this medicine stopped the cycling but took me too low which caused a state of severe depression. Then he switched me to a combo of lamictal/topamax and my mood has been wonderful ever since.
Posted by Tony P on September 18, 2007, at 21:56:45
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Cyclothymic on September 16, 2007, at 0:03:33
Wow, this thread has being going for over 8 years! Is that a record?
I am so pleased to see other people talking about cyclothymia ... when I used the term to my pdoc, he described it as obsolete, now it's all "ultra-rapid cycling bipolar" etc., but it perfectly describes what I've been going through in the past year or so, with a main cycle of a few days to a week or so.
The creative/artistic connection, mentioned way back in the thread, has been a big thing for me recently. After many years of writing almost no music, I started work a couple of months ago on a major classical choral piece for a concert later this month. I found I was staying up all night riding the high of composition, often for several nights in a row, then crashing and sleeping for as long as 36 hrs. at a stretch.
The most difficult thing is that I enjoy the highs, and they _have_ been productive -- I've written the one piece that I'm very proud of, and knocked off a few others that are quite OK. I also resurrected a number of pieces I wrote or left unfinished in my teens & early twenties (the pencil manuscripts were beginning to fade!), revised them & got them into the computer so I can print out readable copies. They somehow look much more impressive than handwritten MSS, so I get extra satisfaction out of seeing myself in print, as it were!
Trouble is of course the roller-coaster ride I've been on creates some major problems for me, not just the depressive side of the mood swings, but being out of synch with the rest of the world (up all night/asleep all day), not able to commit to a regular day job, and not even managing normal self-care because I'm either too high & concentrated on what I'm doing to care, or I'm too exhausted to have the energy to brush my teeth or even undress for bed - when I crash, I **crash**!
Browsing quickly through the thread has reminded me of a couple of med. approaches & other strategies I need to get on to, or back to. I do have a minor but significant S.A.D. component, & right about now is the time of year when it kicks in, so I've got out the hi-intensity light and I'll put it on a timer so it wakes me up whether I want to or not.
As far as meds go, my main A/D is Remeron 30 mg. at night. I also take Requip (ropinirole, a dopamine booster) & 1-2 mg/day clonazepam as I suffer a fair bit from social anxiety and even agrophobia. I've been a bit irregular with the Remeron lately: I skip it when I'm on an all-night high (because I don't _want_ to stop & sleep) then either take it in the AM and sleep the day away or add an extra half dose over the next two nights. It has at least kept me free from the near-suicidal level of depression I was cycling through six months ago. I've also been self-medicating with mild stimulants such as Modafinil, Adrafinil & good old coffee, which of course only make the hypo-manic highs higher, but lately they haven't been working to get me moving in the crash periods -- I can take a full dose of Adrafinil (600 mg) and then sleep for 10 hrs. So all in all I'm on a regime that's mostly activating -- no wonder I'm getting hypo-manic swings!
I was on a mood-stabiliser for a year or two, Lamictal, and in retrospect I may not have been having as much fun, but I sure wasn't swinging as wide. The main reason I haven't gone back on to it before now is the very slow dose build-up recommended versus not being entirely sure how helpful it will be. I haven't seen my pdoc for a couple of months or more, so it's time to discuss that with him again. I think it was working better for me than I credited at the time. I've also tried Neurontin, but it mostly makes me dopey without a lot of benefit that I can feel.
I need to hit the cognitive/behavioural side too, get more order & discipline back in my life (how I hate that d--- word!), but where does one start? Especially when my current crazy lifestyle has such good short-term rewards! Maybe a med change will help me kick-start a turn-around. But I know only too well I have to do some of the legwork as well: I've been through enough different med changes to know that there's no simple "magic bullet" for me.
Tony
Posted by Tony P on September 18, 2007, at 22:29:33
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Cyclothymic on September 16, 2007, at 0:03:33
> After reading up on bipolar all over the net, I am concerned about my shrink's decision to put me solely on Wellbutrin, as I have read that antidepressants alone can actually spark a hypomanic episode. I have only recently started taking it, and only a low dosage so I haven't really seen the effects yet.....
> KTMy experience with Wellbutrin (and advice from a couple of pdocs) was that's it's a really risky med for myself or anyone with any sort of bipolar spectrum, esp. BP III (AD-induced hypomania). I actually felt pretty darned good a lot of the time I was taking it, although I was getting anxiety attacks and major insomnia, but my family told me I was acting and talking quite uncharacteristically, well "crazy" I think was the technical term they used! I also wound up taking a lot of both prescribed and OTC tranquilizers to mitigate the anxiety and insomnia, so it was not a good med. for me.
YMMV - at least Wb works very fast compared with some ADs, so you should know quite quickly if it's right for you.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes,
Tony
Posted by polarbear206 on September 19, 2007, at 9:18:16
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Tony P on September 18, 2007, at 21:56:45
> Wow, this thread has being going for over 8 years! Is that a record?
>
> I am so pleased to see other people talking about cyclothymia ... when I used the term to my pdoc, he described it as obsolete, now it's all "ultra-rapid cycling bipolar" etc., but it perfectly describes what I've been going through in the past year or so, with a main cycle of a few days to a week or so.
>
> The creative/artistic connection, mentioned way back in the thread, has been a big thing for me recently. After many years of writing almost no music, I started work a couple of months ago on a major classical choral piece for a concert later this month. I found I was staying up all night riding the high of composition, often for several nights in a row, then crashing and sleeping for as long as 36 hrs. at a stretch.
>
> The most difficult thing is that I enjoy the highs, and they _have_ been productive -- I've written the one piece that I'm very proud of, and knocked off a few others that are quite OK. I also resurrected a number of pieces I wrote or left unfinished in my teens & early twenties (the pencil manuscripts were beginning to fade!), revised them & got them into the computer so I can print out readable copies. They somehow look much more impressive than handwritten MSS, so I get extra satisfaction out of seeing myself in print, as it were!
>
> Trouble is of course the roller-coaster ride I've been on creates some major problems for me, not just the depressive side of the mood swings, but being out of synch with the rest of the world (up all night/asleep all day), not able to commit to a regular day job, and not even managing normal self-care because I'm either too high & concentrated on what I'm doing to care, or I'm too exhausted to have the energy to brush my teeth or even undress for bed - when I crash, I **crash**!
>
> Browsing quickly through the thread has reminded me of a couple of med. approaches & other strategies I need to get on to, or back to. I do have a minor but significant S.A.D. component, & right about now is the time of year when it kicks in, so I've got out the hi-intensity light and I'll put it on a timer so it wakes me up whether I want to or not.
>
> As far as meds go, my main A/D is Remeron 30 mg. at night. I also take Requip (ropinirole, a dopamine booster) & 1-2 mg/day clonazepam as I suffer a fair bit from social anxiety and even agrophobia. I've been a bit irregular with the Remeron lately: I skip it when I'm on an all-night high (because I don't _want_ to stop & sleep) then either take it in the AM and sleep the day away or add an extra half dose over the next two nights. It has at least kept me free from the near-suicidal level of depression I was cycling through six months ago. I've also been self-medicating with mild stimulants such as Modafinil, Adrafinil & good old coffee, which of course only make the hypo-manic highs higher, but lately they haven't been working to get me moving in the crash periods -- I can take a full dose of Adrafinil (600 mg) and then sleep for 10 hrs. So all in all I'm on a regime that's mostly activating -- no wonder I'm getting hypo-manic swings!
>
> I was on a mood-stabiliser for a year or two, Lamictal, and in retrospect I may not have been having as much fun, but I sure wasn't swinging as wide. The main reason I haven't gone back on to it before now is the very slow dose build-up recommended versus not being entirely sure how helpful it will be. I haven't seen my pdoc for a couple of months or more, so it's time to discuss that with him again. I think it was working better for me than I credited at the time. I've also tried Neurontin, but it mostly makes me dopey without a lot of benefit that I can feel.
>
> I need to hit the cognitive/behavioural side too, get more order & discipline back in my life (how I hate that d--- word!), but where does one start? Especially when my current crazy lifestyle has such good short-term rewards! Maybe a med change will help me kick-start a turn-around. But I know only too well I have to do some of the legwork as well: I've been through enough different med changes to know that there's no simple "magic bullet" for me.
>
> TonyTony,
Sounds like your on the right track. The longer you let it go without proper treatment, the worse your cycling will get. I can relate to some of what you have said. Lamictal is a wonderful mood stabilizer and has a good track record for many of us on babble. You probably read some of my post from this thread way back. I seem to always have problems when the seasons change, but it was 10 times as worse before I started lamictal. I've been on it for many years. If you do need to be on an antidperessant in addition to a mood stabilizer, keep it at the lowest possible dose to prevent mood cycling. I do because my soft bipolar is depression dominated.
lamictal 200mg
Effexor 150mg
Wellbutrin 150mgPolarbear
Posted by beachbum on October 19, 2007, at 10:37:53
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by Cynthia on August 7, 1999, at 16:31:34
Wow my hrs of searching is paying off after 3 yrs! I can never find one who gets like me; well pretty close at least.
My cycles are every 6 or so weeks with debilitating results, to make it short, I can't do anything except sleep. Have had this 25 plus yrs and nothing physical found wrong. To clarify cycles increased through the years in duration and frequency. Been about the same for at least 6 or so years. Have had 2 MDD hospital visits through the yrs.
Anyway 4 yrs ago a new primary doc said I was depressed when I went in Feb. with the same symptoms I get every Feb. [['sick' for 5-6 weeks]]
I disputed that fact cause I only felt depressed cause I was so sick and missed weeks of work and no one can ever help me or know what it is. He said I don't know any different cause I probably always felt this way.[[Dysthymia] He sent me to pdoc again cause nothing they gave me zoloft etc worked. To back up in 94 I was hospitalized and was on like 6 things which only seemed to make me worse. I was a 'holy terror' in hospital and I went in very calm. Through the years I took almost all ssri's and nothing worked so I stopped. [[I would feel depressed sometimes and go to doc]]At the same time I would be full of energy and always was doing something, even after working 12 hrs I would come home and work till 11. I truly didn't understand why others would be so tired. Also woke up almost every hr for yrs and yrs, slept around 4-5 hours.My house had to be just so along with my car and paperwork. I was and still am extremely anxious, would have my moments of rage and be what I thought was 'high strung' Back to the last 4 yrs..second pdoc said I was BP2 and put me on lamictal which didn't cease the cycles either. Lamictal and prozac, still was sick for weeks in Feb.and through the year. Last year light and wellbutrin still sick. Cycles throughout year never changing.
second pdoc again said he never saw this cycle either. Just been on wellbutrin xl 450 for approx. 6 months, 9 months on 300.Three weeks ago went to new [[out of pocket cause I'm 'desperate']] pharmocologist and pdoc [[same]] and he said after 2 hrs. BP2 and put me on provigil and effexor in addition to wellbutrin. If that didn't work wrote down lithium and emsam to try. I resisted mood stab. cause I'm so down already. He was thinking Depacote.
To clarify since lamictal[[2+ yrs][[need to keep better track]] I have almost never except for few days had energy back or motivation.
Old pdoc said I was in depressive stage again, blah...But not having these I do feel depressed all the time. Don't want to do anything and also been sleeping through night since lamictal usually except for few minutes and usually 6-7 hrs.I didn't plan on writing this but got so excited finding some one similar esp with SAD also...
To make long story short I've never found relief and every year for 2 now also getting 2 weeks in fall. Some day I fear I won't have a job. I'm just so worn out with having so many years any advice would be more wonderful than I can say.If you got this far I truly appreciate it.
If any relevance no med gave me side effects except weight gain and no sex drive, no problem just stopping all of them without tapering. Now everything makes me tired including half a 5mg valium when I used to do klonopin and it never fazed me.
Posted by Cyclothymic on October 19, 2007, at 18:17:58
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by beachbum on October 19, 2007, at 10:37:53
I've now been on Wellbutrin for a little over a month, and it has helped me immensely in terms of eliminating my negative thinking and reducing my short-fuse moments. This plus therapy has helped me deal so much better with my "I'm-never-wrong-so-don't-challenge-me" boss. I think before I speak now, and I seem to make better decisions in choosing my battles. In general, I have been much more agreeable.
However, one thing I have learned is I must eat a substantial breakfast before taking it, otherwise I am off-the-wall nervous and/or anxious. Furthermore, it has seriously disrupted my sleep. I'll be dead tired and still have trouble falling asleep, and I will wake up almost every hour through the night. I also remember three or four dreams/nightmares almost daily. It is so bad that I actually woke up because of a nightmare which resumed after I fell back to sleep. I had some sleep issues before taking Wellbutrin but I'd at least get a couple of solid days of sleep per week. Now it's hard to get a couple of consecutive hours of deep sleep.
Has anyone else experienced insomnia because of antidepressants like Wellbutrin? Have you taken them in combination with any sleep aid? Have you taken them in combination with any anti-anxiety medication?
My pdoc presribed me Trazodone as a sleep aid, but I will NEVER take it again. I tried it once and it made me congested, have ridiculous dry mouth, kept me from sleeping all night and gave me a headache that lasted for two days.
Anyhow, I look forward to hearing your responses.
Posted by beachbum on October 20, 2007, at 10:32:41
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by Cyclothymic on October 19, 2007, at 18:17:58
I just know that wellbutrin can be activating so I guess it makes sense that one might not sleep well.
I've been on it for over a year and it's calmed me down and I sleep well but was sleeping well before I started it after taking lamictal.Perhaps you could inquire about klonopin. I was given it because of pain due to neck problems around 5 years ago and a nice side effect I didn't expect was that my chronic insomnia left while taking it. My pdoc gave me script for it so I'm assuming it's safe to take with wellbutrin. I just don't need it. Wishing I would be 'hyper' again right now. :]
Sorry I'm not much help but wanted to try to answer.
Posted by bipolarized on October 21, 2007, at 16:55:33
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by beachbum on October 19, 2007, at 10:37:53
wow sounds like everyone has had varying results w/ all the various meds out there.
my update is that after being put on neurontin for 2 weeks I became suicidal. Then switched onto Depakene, still suicidally depressed (which I wasn't before seeking help--I'd only been mildly annoyed with my tendency to talk to much and feel all melencholy and infinite sadness).....
So, after this solid month of suicidal-ness from meds. I stopped all of them, my doc couldn't explain the reaction except to say that some people have paradoxical reactions. I decided to switch my insurance since I felt that this guy was incompetant.
Then a few weeks after that I get a letter in the mail telling me that that doc was retiring. Just my luck to end up with a pill prescribing weirdo lame-*ss pscyhiatrist after my 1st ever curiousness about whether my occaisional talky moods were an issue.
Anyway, a month after this trauma of meds induced suicidality, I was OK relatively. Though, I think due to the trauma of having experienced that DEEP of a depression caused me to still have lingering suicidal-type thoughts on occaision.
A little over 2 weeks ago I decided to start taking one Wellbutrin per day (left over from when I tried to quit smoking) just until I see my new insurance docs to figure this all out.
My friends assure me I'm not bipolar, but then again they might all be bipolar so who knows. We're all a bunch of ex-junkie punk rock gen-X neo-adult weirdos.....so who knows. All I know is I'm good at my job (teacher) and pay my bills. And if I occaisionally avoid people or talk to much, it's annoying but not nuts.
I'll still consider the opinion of the next doc I see but I'm never again allowing someone to prescribe a med for me on a first visit.
Personally I think the whole world is a little wacky, and if you don't naturally become psychotic or become suicidal then you shouldn't be considered mental.
Posted by Cyclothymic on October 21, 2007, at 20:51:23
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia + mood stabilizers, posted by bipolarized on October 21, 2007, at 16:55:33
You make a good point about not being prescribed something in your first visit. Unfortunately, it seems that's what pdocs are all about these days: selling meds.
So far I'm batting .500 with mine -- a leadoff extra-base hit with the Wellbutrin for anxiety/depression, and a strikeout on three pitches with the Trazadone for sleep problems.
I think it is courageous of you to discuss your thoughts of suicide. I have never come close to doing it, but it is something I started to think about A LOT during my last big down cycle -- just the feeling that I was complete failure and my life was worthless and that this unhappiness would never subside.
I have thought about suicide since I was in my later years of high school when I would go through my down phases, and I didn't think anything was wrong with me because I was sure that "everybody contemplates suicide." But after coming out with my situation to some of my closest friends, it appears I was wrong. And from what I have read, thoughts of suicide are a common sign of bipolar disorder.
All I can say about keeping yourself out of a hole is to do things that are meaningful to you, things that you really want to do, instead of just going through the motions and doing what others want you to do. Best of luck to you getting back on track.
I really wouldn't mind hearing how others have felt when they were down in a hole, and how they dug themselves out of it. It might make some of us feel good to know there are people out there who can relate to our ups and downs or, better said, peaks and valleys.
Posted by KarenRB53 on February 22, 2008, at 10:24:02
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by JohnL on February 22, 2003, at 10:20:57
> You could try replacing the seroquel with zyprexa. Try 2.5mg Zyprexa at first, with a likely targe range of 5.0 to 7.5mg. I think it could work out for you a lot better than seroquel. In clinical studies they are finding that there is something special about prozac and zyprexa together. This combo has worked well for me, while just about everything else out there either made me worse or had too many side effects. The prozac plus zyprexa combo is a real good one. Dump the seroquel in favor of zyprexa.
>
I realize this is an old posting but are you still taking Prozac with Zyprexa? Prozac is the only AD that lifts my depression but it does cause hypomania for me.
Karen>>
Posted by bipolarized on February 22, 2008, at 11:31:38
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by KarenRB53 on February 22, 2008, at 10:24:02
I'm now on 150mg of Wellbutrin SR in the mornings.
Then 2-3 mg of Kalonapin (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) at night.I have SEVERE insomnia and that is my primary problem. I'd suspected Cyclothymia only because in addition to the life-long SEVERE sleep disorder I sometimes talk fast and sometimes get over social or anti-social.
Basically though things are working great currently. I'm going off all meds in summer so I can go to a sleep clinic to get a full proper insomnia diagnosis (I suspect Delayed Sleep Phase Insomnia Disorder---look this up on google because it's often mis-diagnosed as a mental disorder i.e. Cyclythymia/bipolar). They have cognitive behavior treatments to reset your sleep patterns and a sleep regimine to follow to keep healthy sleep patterns.
I'll keep the forum updated on the delayed sleep phase disorder sometime by summer.-
Posted by KimberlyS on October 27, 2008, at 21:47:33
In reply to Re: Sleep problems--anxiety-HELP!, posted by Barbara Cat on August 15, 2003, at 13:53:31
I am trying to see if this works!!!
I want to be part of this website and thread!!
Kim
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