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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sophia04 on July 11, 2007, at 7:10:40
My doc is no longer willing to prescribe .5mg of lorazepam, despite the fact that it was effectively combating my parnate-induced insomnia; because she is concerned I am addicted. She is opposed to any long-term sleep aid, but since I am her first patient on parnate (she has prescribed nardil for yrs,), I'm not sure I trust her opinion. It seems quite common for parnate users to use sleep aids long term. Is there anyone out there who doesn't?
Tonight is my second night w/ out lorazepam and I feel just awful- nauseated, headache and at 5 am haven't slept a wink. What to do? I must be having withdrawals. It is very unpleasant.
Any thoughts are much appreciated.
Thanks,Sophia
Posted by Justherself54 on July 11, 2007, at 8:09:19
In reply to Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by sophia04 on July 11, 2007, at 7:10:40
I'm taking parnate but I take a benzo every night. I also take Zopiclone, which is a hypnotic..it's non-addictive. Maybe your pdoc would be more incline to prescribe something like that? I wouldn't be able to sleep on Parnate either if I didn't take meds at nite..hope you get something to help with sleep, cause it's no fun being sleep deprived..just makes the depression worse for me..
I hope your pdoc takes the insomnia seriously, cause what's the point of taking Parnate and getting good results from it if you can't tolerate the insomnia and have to go off it?
Posted by Phillipa on July 11, 2007, at 11:31:30
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by Justherself54 on July 11, 2007, at 8:09:19
Yes lunesta would work but don't understand why such a small dose of ativan would be of concern to the doc. Maybe another call to him? Love Phillipa
Posted by olysi79 on July 11, 2007, at 17:00:02
In reply to Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by sophia04 on July 11, 2007, at 7:10:40
That is a bit too conservatice on behalf of your PDOC. When I hear "do not believe in" I question their bedside manner. You may want to consider interviewing other PDOCS in and around your area, and be direct with them about the current issues. There is a difference between addiction and dependence. If you have taken more than the prescribed amount, then your PDOC ought to be very concerned... because it is a sign of addiction behavior.... but low dose depdendence can presumably be dealt with via a slow and careful taper, if it is even necessary at all to go off of it at all... if it ain't broke, then don't fix it! If you are taking it long term as prescribed to assist with sleep... I would think that a reasonable doc would accomodate that. I'd be uncomfortable if I had an unreasonable PDOC like that, and hope I never do.
> My doc is no longer willing to prescribe .5mg of lorazepam, despite the fact that it was effectively combating my parnate-induced insomnia; because she is concerned I am addicted. She is opposed to any long-term sleep aid, but since I am her first patient on parnate (she has prescribed nardil for yrs,), I'm not sure I trust her opinion. It seems quite common for parnate users to use sleep aids long term. Is there anyone out there who doesn't?
>
> Tonight is my second night w/ out lorazepam and I feel just awful- nauseated, headache and at 5 am haven't slept a wink. What to do? I must be having withdrawals. It is very unpleasant.
>
> Any thoughts are much appreciated.
> Thanks,
>
> Sophia
>
>
>
>
Posted by Shaner on July 11, 2007, at 18:53:23
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by olysi79 on July 11, 2007, at 17:00:02
I also have been taking Parnate for 5 weeks. You could try high dose 500mg magnesium (with calcium). Also high dose 500mg niacinamide (Vitamin b3, but not the niacin kind) is often good in place of benzos for anxiety.
Posted by saturn on July 11, 2007, at 20:39:34
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by Shaner on July 11, 2007, at 18:53:23
>>Also high dose 500mg niacinamide (Vitamin b3, but not the niacin kind) is often good in place of benzos for anxiety.
I didn't know this...thanks.
Posted by saturn on July 11, 2007, at 20:46:30
In reply to Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by sophia04 on July 11, 2007, at 7:10:40
> My doc is no longer willing to prescribe .5mg of lorazepam, despite the fact that it was effectively combating my parnate-induced insomnia; because she is concerned I am addicted. She is opposed to any long-term sleep aid...
I agree w/ Phillipa. Seems ridiculous to suggest addiction at that dose. You deserve something to combat your insomnia. If she won't give lorazepam I suggest asking for Lunesta or Ambien CR. Actually, they are better than benzos for restorative sleep.One of the few things I've learned over the past few years is that if you truly need sleep meds you simply need them, end of story.
Without adequate sleep mental health is IMHO impossible.
Peace...Saturn.
Posted by Phillipa on July 11, 2007, at 21:33:15
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by saturn on July 11, 2007, at 20:46:30
Saturn and I stopped the lunesta cause it was the last med I used for sleep and chose to stay on .5xanax and the total through night of 20mg of valium. Are you saying I should keep the 3mg of lunesta and cut down or give up the xanax? Please let me know as this thyroid and the cytomel addition I'm so tired I could drop . I don't remember if I stopped the lunesta at about the time I found out thyroid messed up again. Would you start the lunesta again? Give up xanax in return? Thanks Love Phillipa
Posted by saturn on July 12, 2007, at 19:00:15
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids? » saturn, posted by Phillipa on July 11, 2007, at 21:33:15
Hi Phillipa I really don't know did the Lunesta work for you? Peace...Saturn.
Posted by Phillipa on July 12, 2007, at 21:38:08
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids? » Phillipa, posted by saturn on July 12, 2007, at 19:00:15
Saturn when I posted the lunesta thread I met a drug rep for lunesta and we're corresponding now. As you know I take valium and .5 of xanax at be. But what I've learned about lunesta is awesome. You can babble mail me and exchange e-mails I don't give out e-mails and I can let you see. Love Phillipa ps lunesta tonight with valium. No xanax.
Posted by Jedi on July 13, 2007, at 3:07:03
In reply to Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by sophia04 on July 11, 2007, at 7:10:40
Sophia,
I've been reading this forum for many years. I do not believe that I have seen anybody post about using irreversible MAOIs without some kind of sleep aid in their medication cocktail. I could be wrong, but as a general rule MAOIs will interfer with sleep. I have used at least a half dozen different sleep aids while on MAOIs. I would rotate them around because most all of them will quit working when used chronically.
Take care,
Jedi
Posted by OzLand on July 13, 2007, at 22:16:36
In reply to Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by sophia04 on July 11, 2007, at 7:10:40
I take 40 mg. of Parnate per day, and I have tried different combo's during the day so I don't get tired. Currently, I take 30 mg. in the morning and 10 mg. at dinner. I do not use any sleep aides, but I do take 300 mg. of neurontin plus and aspirin and my bp pill at night so I can sleep pain free. So far I have not had any trouble sleeping. I have some Seroquel, lowest dose possible, for sleep if needed. My doctors says it it very sedating at the lower mg. level. So far I have not used it.
Posted by Oppycat on July 17, 2007, at 7:57:33
In reply to Parnate w/ out sleep aids?, posted by sophia04 on July 11, 2007, at 7:10:40
> My doc is no longer willing to prescribe .5mg of lorazepam, despite the fact that it was effectively combating my parnate-induced insomnia; because she is concerned I am addicted. She is opposed to any long-term sleep aid, but since I am her first patient on parnate (she has prescribed nardil for yrs,), I'm not sure I trust her opinion. It seems quite common for parnate users to use sleep aids long term. Is there anyone out there who doesn't?
>
> Tonight is my second night w/ out lorazepam and I feel just awful- nauseated, headache and at 5 am haven't slept a wink. What to do? I must be having withdrawals. It is very unpleasant.
>
> Any thoughts are much appreciated.
> Thanks,
>
> SophiaOzland is the first poster that I've seen that took Parnate without sleep aids. I took Parnate for many years and used Trazodone for most of the time. However, I did best with a combination of Trazodone and Lorezepam. Trazodone is very inexpensive now. It is one of Wal-Mart's $4.00 a month meds, which is less than the co-pay with my insurance.
Also, good p-docs often switch patients to a longer-acting benzo to taper off such as Klonopin or Diazepam. It should be done over a period of at least 8 weeks to keep withdrawal symptoms to a minimum. Of course, your doctor doesn't feel the symptoms, you do. I had a doctor who took me off of Valium after I had been taking 10mg daily for 12 years. I felt awful for about 10 weeks, I think.
Posted by Jedi on July 17, 2007, at 11:55:42
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids? » sophia04, posted by Oppycat on July 17, 2007, at 7:57:33
> Ozland is the first poster that I've seen that took Parnate without sleep aids. I took Parnate for many years and used Trazodone for most of the time. However, I did best with a combination of Trazodone and Lorezepam. Trazodone is very inexpensive now. It is one of Wal-Mart's $4.00 a month meds, which is less than the co-pay with my insurance. ...
Hi,
You still haven't seen one. Gabapentin(Neurontin) can be used as a sleep aid, especially in people with neuropathic pain.
Be well,
Jedi1: J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2006 May;31(3):168-76.
The search for new off-label indications for antidepressant, antianxiety, antipsychotic and anticonvulsant drugs.
Chouinard G.
Clinical Psychopharmacology Unit, Allan Memorial Institute, McGill University Health Centre, McGill University, Montréal, Que, Canada. va.chouinard@gmail.com...
and our trials of gabapentin led to new indications in anxiety disorders (generalized anxiety, panic attack and social phobia) and sleep disorders (insomnia).PMID: 16699602 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Full Article:
http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/staticContent/HTML/N0/l2/jpn/vol-31/issue-3/pdf/pg168.pdf
Posted by OzLand on July 17, 2007, at 23:16:24
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids? » Oppycat, posted by Jedi on July 17, 2007, at 11:55:42
Jedi
You are exactly right. I used to take 600 mg. of Neurontin at night for the neuropathic pain, and it was to help me sleep as before my neurosurgery, I was waking up in pain 2 to 3 hours later even with 900 mg. of Neuronti. I am back to pain again in my neck since doing ECT and am waiting to hear from my neurosurgeon re tests I had done.
I used to take 30 mg. of Parnate years and years ago, and then I would take some Mellaril with it at night. This was before they realized Mellaril was not so good to take.
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2007, at 23:20:12
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids? » Jedi, posted by OzLand on July 17, 2007, at 23:16:24
Major antipsychotic. Don't think they use it anymore. TD and all that lovely stuff. Love Phillipa
Posted by Oppycat on July 18, 2007, at 6:34:44
In reply to Re: Parnate w/ out sleep aids? » Oppycat, posted by Jedi on July 17, 2007, at 11:55:42
> > Ozland is the first poster that I've seen that took Parnate without sleep aids. I took Parnate for many years and used Trazodone for most of the time. However, I did best with a combination of Trazodone and Lorezepam. Trazodone is very inexpensive now. It is one of Wal-Mart's $4.00 a month meds, which is less than the co-pay with my insurance. ...
>
> Hi,
> You still haven't seen one. Gabapentin(Neurontin) can be used as a sleep aid, especially in people with neuropathic pain.
> Be well,
> Jedi
>
> 1: J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2006 May;31(3):168-76.
> The search for new off-label indications for antidepressant, antianxiety, antipsychotic and anticonvulsant drugs.
> Chouinard G.
> Clinical Psychopharmacology Unit, Allan Memorial Institute, McGill University Health Centre, McGill University, Montréal, Que, Canada. va.chouinard@gmail.com
>
> ...
> and our trials of gabapentin led to new indications in anxiety disorders (generalized anxiety, panic attack and social phobia) and sleep disorders (insomnia).
>
> PMID: 16699602 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>
>
> Full Article:
> http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/staticContent/HTML/N0/l2/jpn/vol-31/issue-3/pdf/pg168.pdf
That's interesting. I took Neurontin briefly, but it interfered with my sleep, despite what my p-doc had told me. Of course, I have paradoxical reactions to many meds. Thanks for the info.
This is the end of the thread.
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