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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KayeBaby on April 1, 2007, at 13:56:13
Seems as though I remember talk od this med here.
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2007, at 14:23:29
In reply to Pergolide recalled, posted by KayeBaby on April 1, 2007, at 13:56:13
And you wonder why I fear meds. Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 15:21:49
In reply to Re: Pergolide recalled » KayeBaby, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2007, at 14:23:29
Exactly, perfectly safe untill linked to death.
Linkadge
Posted by Racer on April 1, 2007, at 15:50:17
In reply to Re: Pergolide recalled, posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 15:21:49
A lot of horses with Cushing's disease are on Permax. I wonder what they'll have to be put on now?
Dang...
Posted by Quintal on April 1, 2007, at 16:38:15
In reply to Pergolide recalled, posted by KayeBaby on April 1, 2007, at 13:56:13
At least they're saying Mirapex (pramipexole) is safe, but even that does something nasty to the cone or rod cells in the retina. I think I'm going to stop taking it.
Q
Posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 18:49:14
In reply to Re: Pergolide recalled » KayeBaby, posted by Quintal on April 1, 2007, at 16:38:15
Do you have a link for that? I believe you, I'd just like to read more.
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on April 1, 2007, at 18:59:55
In reply to Re: Pergolide recalled » Quintal, posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 18:49:14
__________________________________________________
ANIMAL TOXICOLOGYRetinal Pathology in Albino Rats
Pathologic changes (degeneration and loss of photoreceptor cells) were observed in the retina of albino rats in the 2-year carcinogenicity study with pramipexole. These findings were first observed during week 76 and were dose dependent in animals receiving 2 or 8 mg/kg/day (plasma AUCs equal to 2.5 and 12.5 times the AUC in humans that received 1.5 mg tid). Similar findings were not present in rats receiving 0. 3 mg/kg/day (plasma AUC equal to 0.3 times the AUC in humans that received 1.5 mg tid).
Investigative studies demonstrated that pramipexole reduced the rate of disk shedding from the photoreceptor rod cells of the retina in albino rats, which was associated with enhanced sensitivity to the damaging effects of light. In a comparative study, degeneration and loss of photoreceptor cells occurred in albino rats after 13 weeks of treatment with 25 mg/kg/day of pramipexole (54 times the highest clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis) and constant light (100 lux) but not in pigmented rats exposed to the same dose and higher light intensities (500 lux). Thus, the retina of albino rats is considered to be uniquely sensitive to the damaging effects of pramipexole and light. Similar changes in the retina did not occur in a 2-year carcinogenicity study in albino mice treated with 0.3, 2, or 10 mg/kg/day (0. 3, 2. 2 and 11 times the highest clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis). Evaluation of the retinas of monkeys given 0.1, 0.5, or 2. 0 mg/kg/day of pramipexole (0. 4, 2. 2, and 8. 6 times the highest clinical dose on a mg/m2 basis) for 12 months and minipigs given 0.3, 1, or 5 mg/kg/day of pramipexole for 13 weeks also detected no changes.
The potential significance of this effect in humans has not been established, but cannot be disregarded because disruption of a mechanism that is universally present in vertebrates (ie, disk shedding) may be involved.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/prampex_cp.htm
__________________________________________________It's a shame because it seems to be a pretty good mood stabilizer and anxiolytic (at least at the doses I've been taking). But I don't want to damage my eyesight.
Q
Posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 19:18:05
In reply to Re: Pergolide recalled » linkadge, posted by Quintal on April 1, 2007, at 18:59:55
Funny how theres always got to be something to ruin it.
What can you do. I'm sure if I were somebody else I'd try to convince you that there is no big deal, but I am the king of throwing in the towel for crap like this.
But I guess those are the side effects that scare me most. Carcinogenicity, stuff with the eyes or stuff with the heart.
I can tollerate impotence, but don't make me blind.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 19:20:17
In reply to Re: Pergolide recalled » linkadge, posted by Quintal on April 1, 2007, at 18:59:55
Its like my doctor tried to convince me that the chromisomal changes study of ritalin was no big deal. He said there must have been some flaw in the study.
But honestly, if there were no problem, I am sure that ciba (or whatever) would jump on the opportinuty to provide a counter study. Prescription rates directly dropped after that stud was released.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 19:26:03
In reply to Re: Pergolide recalled, posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 19:20:17
Don't mean to harp on old ideas, but this drug damaged the heart via 5-ht2b agonism. So why don't SSRI's (indirect 5-ht2b agonists) also dammage the heart?
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on April 1, 2007, at 19:57:57
In reply to Re: Pergolide recalled, posted by linkadge on April 1, 2007, at 19:18:05
I know, thinking about it though 25mg/kg is one helluva high dose compared to what I've been taking; 0.125mg/70kg. Is that 0.002mg/kg? So the albino rats were taking ~12500 times more mg/kg than me? I'm no good at statistics so there's probably a flaw in my reasoning somewhere, but anyway there seems to be quite a considerable margin of safety. And I'm not an albino and rarely go out in full sunlight anyway. Another study with slightly lower doses failed to find the same results, and one with pigmented rats failed to show the retinal pathology at all at the same dose.
Q
This is the end of the thread.
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