![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by blueberry1 on March 6, 2007, at 20:58:38
I'm sure mileage varies...but...tramadol rules. Except for nardil and parnate, you name it and I have been on it. A mere 25mg tramadol does more for me than any expensive exotic double, triple, or quadruple combination or augmentation even came close to doing. Since 150mg to 300mg is the usual dosage range, I am quite pleased with 25mg.
Whew. It's been a long hellish 3 years with no end in sight. Heck, tramadol even blows ECT in the weeds.
While they spend millions of dollars researching all the other crap on the market, they are missing a jewel that's been around a long time. Strang thing is, it isn't even a mood drug, but yet blows all the mood drugs away.
None of the expected euphoria or buzz for me. It took 3 days to kick in at 25mg 3X day, which I reduced to 25mg once a day and works pretty well.
Since all ssris, snris, and opioids actually made my depression worse instead of better, I do not understand how tramadol works, since it is all of those things combined. There must be some unknown or misunderstood mechanism.
Anyway, it's nice to see light at the end of the tunnel. I didn't even know there was an end to the tunnel. Tramadol rules, even in miniscule dose for me.
Posted by stargazer on March 6, 2007, at 21:43:39
In reply to Tramadol Rules, posted by blueberry1 on March 6, 2007, at 20:58:38
BB, I am so happy for you. Who came up with using the Tramadol (aka Ultram) for your depression? Was it origianlly prescribed for pain or depresion?
Whatever it was prescribed for, the bottom line is that it is working wonderfully for you. You certainly had been suffering long enough and needed to find something special to give you your life back.
What a fortuituous discovery with Tramadol, maybe it will be a new med for many others here to try. The dose is so low and you are still getting benefits, that is a positive thing.
Best of luck for continued results...
Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2007, at 22:10:41
In reply to Re: Tramadol Rules, posted by stargazer on March 6, 2007, at 21:43:39
Go to health half-way up the page is a thread by Spriggy who is also experiencing the same results from ultram. You'll have to read it yourself. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2007, at 22:21:09
In reply to Re: Tramadol Rules, posted by Phillipa on March 6, 2007, at 22:10:41
Ultram...., posted by spriggy on February 25, 2007, at 21:54:46. Spriggy,. I've been wondering about you! Glad you found something that seems to be helping. ...
www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070224/msgs/736293.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
Posted by saturn on March 7, 2007, at 0:27:57
In reply to Tramadol Rules, posted by blueberry1 on March 6, 2007, at 20:58:38
> Since all ssris, snris, and opioids actually made my depression worse instead of better, I do not understand how tramadol works, since it is all of those things combined. There must be some unknown or misunderstood mechanism.Glad to hear it's working for ya. I thought tramadol was simply a "mild" opiod. Of course, I'm sure it's not that simple, but does it have ssri or other effects? Peace...Saturn.
Posted by med_empowered on March 7, 2007, at 5:22:06
In reply to Blueberry rules » blueberry1, posted by saturn on March 7, 2007, at 0:27:57
i think ultram is kind of like effexor, plus opiate action, plus GABAergic action.
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on March 7, 2007, at 10:00:24
In reply to Re: Blueberry rules, posted by med_empowered on March 7, 2007, at 5:22:06
BB: It is great to hear that you have finally found med to give you some relief. Are you taking for bipolar, depression and/or anxiety? Since my issue is anxiety, I am wondering what effect it has on your anxiety? Does it take most or all of it away?
What made you try this? How did you convince your pdoc to prescribe it? How did you decide on dosage? Are there are any side effects? Are you taking any other drugs with it?
When you have the time, I'm sure I'm one of many who would LOVE to hear your story about this because ... it might help us, too. Congrats, congrats, congrats. Michael
Posted by stargazer on March 7, 2007, at 13:08:45
In reply to Re: Tramadol Rules, posted by stargazer on March 6, 2007, at 21:43:39
According to my med book, the action of Ultram or Tramadol is:
"Unknown. A centrally acting synthetic analgesic compound not chemically related to opioids. Thought to bind to opioid receptors and inhibit reuptake of noreepinephrine and serotonin."
SG
Posted by JahL on March 7, 2007, at 14:06:11
In reply to Tramadol Rules, posted by blueberry1 on March 6, 2007, at 20:58:38
> I'm sure mileage varies...but...tramadol rules.
I'm minded to agree somewhat.
> Except for nardil and parnate, you name it and I have been on it.
Same here. Except I've tried those also.
> None of the expected euphoria or buzz for me.Yup. Ditto. I took 2 x 25mg daily of Tramadol for around 2 months and enjoyed a pretty decent response (perhaps 30% remission) before it suddenly pooped out. I had a similar experience with Dihydrocodeine and a much better one with Bupenorphine, which unfortunately only did the business for a week or so.
The only opioid which has worked long-term for me is low-dose Methadone - 7 years and counting with no sign at all of the dreaded tolerance - but the benefits are significantly less dramatic than with Tramadol.
Interestingly, the only opioid I have tried which didn't reverse some of my symptoms is Heroin - also the most potent. Of course the euphoria you refer to is present - boy is it present - but gone are the days I just want to get off my t*ts. Euthymia's my only real target now (tho' a little MDMA every now and then is nice. Anyway...). I think this has a lot to do with Heroin's ultra-short half-life.
I firmly believe that a small (?) minority of people only ever feel truly 'well' on opioids. Therefore it's a shame the psychiatric community is so opiophobic - else we might get a few more success stories like yours. Long may it continue. Congrats!
J.
Posted by blueberry1 on March 7, 2007, at 19:05:19
In reply to Re: Blueberry, so many questions 4U- Blueberry1, posted by UGottaHaveHope on March 7, 2007, at 10:00:24
To answer your questions and share my thoughts with all here...
Tramadol is about 75% relief of depression, fear, and anxiety parts of the day, and 100% relief at random times of the day. Anxiety...I used to sit in the break room at work, silent and in fear. Now I sit comfortably and actually talk with people. The following is a list of things I could previously not do, but I do now with even a tad of enthusiasm...cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, working, taking care of family members, being in conversations with people, smiling sometimes, watching TV, playing guitar, stuff like that.
What made me try it was comments from others at remedyfind.com, askapatient.com, and here. So many people (mileage does vary) said they had tried everything, and that nothing compared remotely to tramadol. Side effects first day were insomnia. Second day the opposite, somnolence. Third day and continuing, delayed orgasm and that's it. No other side effects. Sex drive seems a bit stronger.
Unlike everything else, it did not make me worse right away. It kicked in on day 3. I am not taking any other drugs with it. Just 25mg once a day. Also take a spoonful of cod liver oil and a multivitamin. I want a new vitamin without copper because I have read that copper is one of the most toxic unrecognized common nutrients involved with psychiatric disorders. Almost all have copper. Geez.
After piss-poor care from 5 psychiatrists, 2 GPS, and a specialty nurse practioner, I gave up on them. After thousands of dollars and 10 years I had no progress to show, and actually significant deterioration instead. Tramadol was my own decision and pretty much a last resort. Since all norepinephrine drugs make me much much worse, I expected bad things. I was surprised.
Tramadol's opioid action is in question because opioid blockers do not completely block it. Plus, I feel no euphoria, buzz, or rush at all. I also wonder about it's snri action, because ssris and snris take weeks to work, but tramadol works in hours or days instead.
Tolerance and dependence are issues. But this whole board deals with those issues with every drug known to man. To hopefully keep those risks at bay I'm reading what longtime users have done. Some stay with the same constant dose year after year with no probs. Some take a day or two off each week.
Prozac, lexapro, depakote, lithium, zoloft, cymbalta, zyprexa, seroquel, st johns wort, xanax, klonopin, lorazepam, adrafinil, provigil, ritalin, adderall, amisulpride, tianeptine, milnacipran, and I know I forgot a handful of them...oh yeah, ECT also...none even come close to comparing to tramadol. Matter of fact, they all made me worse real fast. Tram is the standalone one that did not.
I must give credit where it is truly due. It does not belong to tramadol, a doctor, or me. It belongs 100% to God of the Bible. This probably should be on the spiritual board. Spiritual warfare is very real, very powerful, and constantly in motion. One prayer in the morning is like shooting a rifle once in the morning during a war and that's it for the day. God wants me, us, to surrender to Him completely and lay it all at His feet. He wants to show us His glory and power. But we have to submit our total weakness, obey, and whole-heartedly welcome His Holy Spirit to dwell with us in every moment. Constant prayer is more help than any drug.
> BB: It is great to hear that you have finally found med to give you some relief. Are you taking for bipolar, depression and/or anxiety? Since my issue is anxiety, I am wondering what effect it has on your anxiety? Does it take most or all of it away?
>
> What made you try this? How did you convince your pdoc to prescribe it? How did you decide on dosage? Are there are any side effects? Are you taking any other drugs with it?
>
> When you have the time, I'm sure I'm one of many who would LOVE to hear your story about this because ... it might help us, too. Congrats, congrats, congrats. Michael
Posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2007, at 19:40:12
In reply to Re: Blueberry, so many questions 4U- Blueberry1, posted by blueberry1 on March 7, 2007, at 19:05:19
Blueberry thanks and I'm so happy for you. Love Phillipa
Posted by valene on March 7, 2007, at 20:19:30
In reply to Re: Blueberry, so many questions 4U- Blueberry1, posted by blueberry1 on March 7, 2007, at 19:05:19
Blueberry, wonderful testimony, praise God, and I am very glad you are feeling so well. Blessings, Val
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 8, 2007, at 0:46:20
In reply to Re: Blueberry, so many questions 4U- Blueberry1, posted by blueberry1 on March 7, 2007, at 19:05:19
BB: Your post above (and copied below) is one of the best ever. It gives me hope, and I'm sure many others who read. Whomever thought something sitting right in front of your face all along would help you so greatly? That is a miracle or the work of God most indeed that you led you to this medicine.
Thank you so much for being so willing to share your story, as I'm sure it will help others. And that's great about your faith. Sounds like you're a rebuilt man. I'm still headed for a trial to Nardil for generalized anxiety, but I will always keep Tramadol in mind if it doesn't work out. Thanks and congrats. Michael
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
FROM BLUEBERRY1
> To answer your questions and share my thoughts with all here...
>
> Tramadol is about 75% relief of depression, fear, and anxiety parts of the day, and 100% relief at random times of the day. Anxiety...I used to sit in the break room at work, silent and in fear. Now I sit comfortably and actually talk with people. The following is a list of things I could previously not do, but I do now with even a tad of enthusiasm...cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, working, taking care of family members, being in conversations with people, smiling sometimes, watching TV, playing guitar, stuff like that.
>
> What made me try it was comments from others at remedyfind.com, askapatient.com, and here. So many people (mileage does vary) said they had tried everything, and that nothing compared remotely to tramadol. Side effects first day were insomnia. Second day the opposite, somnolence. Third day and continuing, delayed orgasm and that's it. No other side effects. Sex drive seems a bit stronger.
>
> Unlike everything else, it did not make me worse right away. It kicked in on day 3. I am not taking any other drugs with it. Just 25mg once a day. Also take a spoonful of cod liver oil and a multivitamin. I want a new vitamin without copper because I have read that copper is one of the most toxic unrecognized common nutrients involved with psychiatric disorders. Almost all have copper. Geez.
>
> After piss-poor care from 5 psychiatrists, 2 GPS, and a specialty nurse practioner, I gave up on them. After thousands of dollars and 10 years I had no progress to show, and actually significant deterioration instead. Tramadol was my own decision and pretty much a last resort. Since all norepinephrine drugs make me much much worse, I expected bad things. I was surprised.
>
> Tramadol's opioid action is in question because opioid blockers do not completely block it. Plus, I feel no euphoria, buzz, or rush at all. I also wonder about it's snri action, because ssris and snris take weeks to work, but tramadol works in hours or days instead.
>
> Tolerance and dependence are issues. But this whole board deals with those issues with every drug known to man. To hopefully keep those risks at bay I'm reading what longtime users have done. Some stay with the same constant dose year after year with no probs. Some take a day or two off each week.
>
> Prozac, lexapro, depakote, lithium, zoloft, cymbalta, zyprexa, seroquel, st johns wort, xanax, klonopin, lorazepam, adrafinil, provigil, ritalin, adderall, amisulpride, tianeptine, milnacipran, and I know I forgot a handful of them...oh yeah, ECT also...none even come close to comparing to tramadol. Matter of fact, they all made me worse real fast. Tram is the standalone one that did not.
>
> I must give credit where it is truly due. It does not belong to tramadol, a doctor, or me. It belongs 100% to God of the Bible. This probably should be on the spiritual board. Spiritual warfare is very real, very powerful, and constantly in motion. One prayer in the morning is like shooting a rifle once in the morning during a war and that's it for the day. God wants me, us, to surrender to Him completely and lay it all at His feet. He wants to show us His glory and power. But we have to submit our total weakness, obey, and whole-heartedly welcome His Holy Spirit to dwell with us in every moment. Constant prayer is more help than any drug.
>
Posted by spriggy on March 10, 2007, at 0:19:17
In reply to Re: That's one of the greatest posts ever on DrBob » blueberry1, posted by UgottaHaveHope on March 8, 2007, at 0:46:20
Blueberry,
I have also experienced similar effects to Ultram (tramadol). I am on the ER version (extended release). It is 200 mg's once a day.
I also noticed ( the 2nd day) that my anxiety was at bay, my depression was gone, and I had more energy.
It has helped my pain IMMENSELY without leaving me feeling "foggy."
The only thing I notice is that if I drink a cup of coffee in the morning, the anxiety seems to be pretty strong ( I take my Ultram in the morning too). So I'm guessing caffeine may not be a good mix for the Ultram because of the norepenephrine ( however you spell that word).
At least for me that is.
So I am avoiding caffeine and feeling better than I have in years.
My dr. talked me into taking it- thought it might help my fibro/Lyme's achy joint pain.
I hesitated becuase I was concerned it was addictive and my dr. assured me it WASN'T. And yet, after what I've read it is.
BUT, It helps so I figure it has to be better than me popping 4 Aleves, 4 Ibuprofens, and 2 Hydrocodones every single day just to walk!
My only side effect seems to be that I only need 5-6 hours of sleep (compared to my usual 9 hours).
But, I wake up rested and energized. So that's good.
And like you, I also know to give all glory to the Lord. He is the maker of us and knows what works best for each- I pray that all here find relief and answer's, and know more than all else that the God that created you loves you deeply.
SO yeah... add me to the Ultram and God club too. ROFL
Posted by Crazy Horse on March 10, 2007, at 11:10:48
In reply to Tramadol Rules, posted by blueberry1 on March 6, 2007, at 20:58:38
I am very happy that you have finally found a med that works for you. And even more importantly you have found God and have given Him the glory for your improvement. I found God 24 years ago (the God of the bible and His Son Jesus Christ) and only because of Him I am here today, He always keeps me afloat. When things get bad here, i remind myself that in about 30 years or sooner or later i will live with Him in paradise where there is no pain, no sorrow, no suffering whatsoever :) Congratulations Blueberry!!!
-Monte
Posted by ronaldo on March 10, 2007, at 12:38:23
In reply to Tramadol Rules, posted by blueberry1 on March 6, 2007, at 20:58:38
Hi Blueberry
I'm glad you have found something that works...at long last. Congratulations! You deserve your success. I hope that tramadol gives you lots of good milage.
I am still fighting to come off Zyprexa. Been down to 1.25 mg for about six weeks. Still get early awakening (4 am) but manage to doze on a bit. How did you reduce down from 1.25 mg? I'm not worried about it at the moment because I have a bad neck that I want to heal first before I reduce the 1.25 mg. Logic being that I will sleep better once my neck is better. Doing the exercises four times a day and bought a ducksfeather pillow which is an improvement. But it seems like I will never get off the Zyprexa.
ronaldo
> I'm sure mileage varies...but...tramadol rules. Except for nardil and parnate, you name it and I have been on it. A mere 25mg tramadol does more for me than any expensive exotic double, triple, or quadruple combination or augmentation even came close to doing. Since 150mg to 300mg is the usual dosage range, I am quite pleased with 25mg.
>
> Whew. It's been a long hellish 3 years with no end in sight. Heck, tramadol even blows ECT in the weeds.
>
> While they spend millions of dollars researching all the other crap on the market, they are missing a jewel that's been around a long time. Strang thing is, it isn't even a mood drug, but yet blows all the mood drugs away.
>
> None of the expected euphoria or buzz for me. It took 3 days to kick in at 25mg 3X day, which I reduced to 25mg once a day and works pretty well.
>
> Since all ssris, snris, and opioids actually made my depression worse instead of better, I do not understand how tramadol works, since it is all of those things combined. There must be some unknown or misunderstood mechanism.
>
> Anyway, it's nice to see light at the end of the tunnel. I didn't even know there was an end to the tunnel. Tramadol rules, even in miniscule dose for me.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.