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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:02:22
I'm supposed to have gum surgery, Round 2 this year. A few years ago, after Round 1, I sunk into a sudden and severe, persistant depression. Prozac konked out, everything just went to hell. A friend told me she heard that certain anaesthetics can do this-that there is one that can cause a severe or a psychotic style depression. Has anyone heard of this, or know anything about it? If there is any truth to what this friend told me, I want to avoid the offending drug at all costs. Oh- they gave me an IV, a shot or two, and something to breathe. Plus I think I recall they swabbed the inside of my mouth over with an antibiotic before sewing on my own gum tissue. (Big Time gum surgery!) I was sent home with vicodin, and the only med I was on at the time was 20mg prozac. I ate icecream for a week. The severly worsened depression was evident a day or two after the surgery, as soon as I was de-groggified enough to know what was going on. Could the lasting worsened depression be due to the stress? Or more likely due to a drug? Or just all the icecream? Thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2007, at 21:34:46
In reply to anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:02:22
Doubt it was the ice cream could it have been from stress as an IV anesthetic should be out of your body by then. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on January 11, 2007, at 23:39:39
In reply to anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:02:22
The inflammation caused by surgery as well as the stress can worsen cause depression and exacerbate it in people who are already depressed. Maybe that's what happened? Are you taking any anti-inflammitory drugs such as ibuprofen?
Q
Posted by Klavot on January 12, 2007, at 1:47:09
In reply to anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:02:22
I agree with Philippa and Quintal. Many people develop depression and other problems after surgery, as a result of the "knock" to your body. Some people even develop acne, have their hair fall out, etc. I have seen some articles about this kind of thing on the net.
Klavot
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 8:11:38
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression » laima, posted by Quintal on January 11, 2007, at 23:39:39
Thanks- the surgery was a few years ago, and I've really stalled the second one due to aprehension. (My gums got pretty bad- the periodontist acknowledged that the cause was most likely the braces I wore as a young teenager. There was too much recession for them to be able to take care of in one session.) I can't remember if I used ibuprofin at the time or not- I'm guessing maybe yes, after vicodin ran out. Vicodin doesn't do anything for inflammation, does it. Next time I'll pay more attention to inflammation- I do hear a lot about inflammation and depression being linked. So you guys all think my mood plunge was most likely due to mental and physiological stress?
Posted by stargazer on January 12, 2007, at 9:32:18
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 8:11:38
Laima...I would discuss this response with the doctor, specifically the anesthesthiologist before you have surgery. There is an anesthetic given to people who have bad reactions after previous surgery. It is called Propofol (Diprivin), which is known as the smoothest of anesthetics. They don't always use it as a first line drug because of it's expense (typical), but if you have had bad reactions before, you should
insist on something different than your previous anesthetic.Perhaps that will minimize your reaction. Worth discussing before procedure.
Stargazer
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 14:03:17
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by stargazer on January 12, 2007, at 9:32:18
Thank you, thank you! I do plan to discuss this concern with every doctor involved, but I thought I'd check in here first too, to "get the word on the street", as they say.
> Laima...I would discuss this response with the doctor, specifically the anesthesthiologist before you have surgery. There is an anesthetic given to people who have bad reactions after previous surgery. It is called Propofol (Diprivin), which is known as the smoothest of anesthetics. They don't always use it as a first line drug because of it's expense (typical), but if you have had bad reactions before, you should
> insist on something different than your previous anesthetic.
>
> Perhaps that will minimize your reaction. Worth discussing before procedure.
>
> Stargazer
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 14:36:08
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by stargazer on January 12, 2007, at 9:32:18
So, Stargazer: do you think a mood crash is a plausable side effect of an anaesthetic then?
Posted by stargazer on January 12, 2007, at 23:24:11
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression » stargazer, posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 14:36:08
I think the anesthetic and procedure combine to creat biological changes which impact the mood. Even though the drug leaves your system in a few hours (depends on drug), there are lingering effects of the drugs so it's hard to tell but most people feel crummy after any type of surgery, even minor ones. So I'm not surprised with a mood crash in someone who has a chemical imbalence and therefore very sensitive to medication effects...SG
Posted by Karen44 on January 12, 2007, at 23:57:53
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by stargazer on January 12, 2007, at 23:24:11
> I think the anesthetic and procedure combine to creat biological changes which impact the mood. Even though the drug leaves your system in a few hours (depends on drug), there are lingering effects of the drugs so it's hard to tell but most people feel crummy after any type of surgery, even minor ones. So I'm not surprised with a mood crash in someone who has a chemical imbalence and therefore very sensitive to medication effects...SG
Could this be why my depression got significantly worse after I had surgery on my hand-basal metacarpal joint replacement plus fusion with screw of joint above (December 12th). I feel so horribly depressed now with the med's not making at all such that I have pretty much resigned myself to doing ECT.Karen44
Posted by stargazer on January 13, 2007, at 12:34:06
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression » stargazer, posted by Karen44 on January 12, 2007, at 23:57:53
I don't know enough about long term effects of anesthetics on mood but there has probably been studies done since I'm sure there have been others to have experienced a relapse in their depression after surgery. Perhaps the anesthetics bind to certain receptors in the brain or change the affinity for binding. I don't understand the science behind that phenomenen.
And it would depend on the anesthetic used and what meds you were on before the surgery to know the impact. That would be a question for an expert in anesthesiology or an expert in brain chemistry, some others here seem to have more of that scientific background.
SG
Posted by cgd092 on January 14, 2007, at 0:13:45
In reply to anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:02:22
I don't know about anasthetics, but I do know about "kindling." If you had depression before the surgery, then life stressors can trigger a major depressive episode. Kindling just means that once you've been depressed, it takes less and less stress to trigger an episode. Major oral surgery and all that time recovering to me qualifies as a major life stressor. That in itself can and almost would trigger depression in a depressive.
Posted by MTNDOG on January 14, 2007, at 13:55:28
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by cgd092 on January 14, 2007, at 0:13:45
It has happened to me several times as well- but I think mine were the sedative type of anaesthetics gibven to you for procedures. I had an upper endoscopy in which they used a few different drugs and was horribly depressed afther that.
Also a few weeks ago had very bad reactions (depression, sleeping a ton) to Lidpcaine trigger point injections.
The kindling theory makes sense and you figure that if it's happened to some other people, it's certainly a possibility.
When I had my gall bladder removed I told them that all those drugs made me horribly depressed (happens with narcotics too) so whatever she gave me was different as I did not end up depressed at all and that was the most major surgery I've EVER had!
Posted by laima on January 14, 2007, at 15:53:19
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by MTNDOG on January 14, 2007, at 13:55:28
I had an endoscopy too, and since I was on Emsam that affected the anaesthetics they could use. So they used morphine instead of the fentynyl that they said they normally used, and I was fine. I got the impression from them that the morphine was not a typical option. If anything, that morphine improved my mood until it wore off. I liked it. So I wonder, is fentynyl the anaesthetic most normally used, or are there a bunch that are often used? Is morphine not a typical option?
Posted by MTNDOG on January 14, 2007, at 16:29:55
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by laima on January 14, 2007, at 15:53:19
I think morphine is probably not a common anesthetic. It's usually a pain killer. It's funny that you say that it improved your mood because after my gall bladder surgery I had to take Percoset, which is also a narcotic like morphine, and it improved my mood too. EVERY other narcotic I've ever taken for pain has made me incredibly depressed.
Posted by laima on January 14, 2007, at 17:07:52
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by MTNDOG on January 14, 2007, at 16:29:55
Well, if only I could have my next gum surgery entirely on morphine, perhaps I'd do alright! Maybe even cured. Is it available as a pill for pain afterwards, too? Ie, instead of vicodin?
Posted by MTNDOG on January 14, 2007, at 17:16:14
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression » MTNDOG, posted by laima on January 14, 2007, at 17:07:52
I don't know, but it's worth asking. DEFINITELY TELL your doctor about what happened last time. That's what I did when I went in for gall bladder surgery and i sailed through that.
Posted by laima on January 14, 2007, at 17:36:18
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by MTNDOG on January 14, 2007, at 17:16:14
Oh, you bet I'll tell everyone what happened last time. But I am concerned that they might not believe me, in that they'll say my mood plunge was exclusively due to stress of having the gum surgery in the first place. That's why I'm trying to become as informed as possible.Another thing about dentistry (mouth): dentist, periodontist, and psychiatrist all scoff at my questions about mercury fillings and depression. I wish they didn't scoff so much. Actually, I had several of those so called silver (colored) fillings removed and replaced with another material about a week before the surgery because they were so old and starting to fall apart. I wondered if some of my trouble could have come from swallowing or otherwise ingesting some of the material. But like I said, every professional involved in my care dismissed the possibility. I suppose that's material for a whole other thread.
> I don't know, but it's worth asking. DEFINITELY TELL your doctor about what happened last time. That's what I did when I went in for gall bladder surgery and i sailed through that.
Posted by Phillipa on January 14, 2007, at 18:14:59
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by MTNDOG on January 14, 2007, at 16:29:55
Yup l percocet with my broken arm and I was laughing. Also had first shot of demerol IV and versed IV when having a colonoscopy and slept but felt well later. Love Phillipa ps I am seeing a pattern in myself.
Posted by Phillipa on January 14, 2007, at 18:16:59
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression, posted by laima on January 14, 2007, at 17:36:18
Old fillings probably mercury I had caps replaced on them all. Love Phillipa
Posted by stargazer on January 14, 2007, at 20:15:40
In reply to Re: anaesthetics and worsened depression » MTNDOG, posted by laima on January 14, 2007, at 17:07:52
This is the end of the thread.
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