![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 23:07:06
Well my Daughter is taking low dose seroquel for high anxiety. How is it different from a benzo. Thanks Phillipa ps she's on 50mg with zoloft 50mg.
Posted by ace on September 29, 2006, at 0:50:35
In reply to Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 23:07:06
> Well my Daughter is taking low dose seroquel for high anxiety. How is it different from a benzo. Thanks Phillipa ps she's on 50mg with zoloft 50mg.
1. Difference between Seroquel and a typical benzo: BIG difference: Seroquel is from a chemical class called dibenzothiazepine derivatives. The mode of action is Seroquel's partial activation of the 5HT1A receptors in the prefrontal cortex of the brain. It has affinity for D2 (DOPAMINE) receptors in the brain (esp Limbic system.
On the other hand, Benzo's INHIBIT action potentials, thus relaxing motor action.These effects result from Benzodiazepine’s modulation of GABA, the main inhibitory neuroansmitter of the CNS, by influencing the GABAA receptor complex.
For high anxiety I would personally recommend Xanax, titrated up to 4mg/day in divided doses.
Although i think antipsychotics, in the vast majoruity of patients are benign and devoid of many s/effects (even wuith long term use at therapeutic doses), its probably safer to scrap the seroquel.
I would also remove Zoloft and add on a TCA or MAOI. I have reservations about the newer cash cows SSRI's. Their efficacy is questionable.
I would try
Nardil- 60-90mg + Xanax 4mg
or
Clomipramine 100mg + 4mg Xanax/1mg Klonopinmany many many other options!!!!!!!!!
Luv
Ace
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 12:23:45
In reply to Re: Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose » Phillipa, posted by ace on September 29, 2006, at 0:50:35
Thanks for taking the time Ace. Love Phillipa
Posted by fca on September 29, 2006, at 20:27:02
In reply to Re: Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose » Phillipa, posted by ace on September 29, 2006, at 0:50:35
ACE's response is over my head and I am reluctant to recommend a specific drug regime. I think what he says about TCAs and MAOIs effectiveness may be true but he does not mention side effects and discontinuation rates (generally lower for SSRI). Also, I think most physicians would be reluctant to start TCAs or MAOIs without a thorough trial on SSRIs. Well, that has nothing to do with seroquel--my daughter who is alcoholic with an ED finds it to be an exrtremely reliable anxiolytic at low dose. She takes prn at this point. Preferable for her because of substance abuse history--loves benzos but recognizes this is not a wise choice for her,
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 20:30:38
In reply to Re: Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose, posted by fca on September 29, 2006, at 20:27:02
Thanks yes she was drinking a lot and smoking . Wants to quit. Love Phillipa
Posted by blueberry on September 29, 2006, at 20:58:01
In reply to Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 23:07:06
Pros...good sleep, good anti-anxiety for a few hours per dose.
Cons...expensive.
Posted by ace on September 29, 2006, at 22:01:17
In reply to Re: Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose, posted by fca on September 29, 2006, at 20:27:02
> ACE's response is over my head and I am reluctant to recommend a specific drug regime. I think what he says about TCAs and MAOIs effectiveness may be true but he does not mention side effects and discontinuation rates (generally lower for SSRI).
True. I have noticed that GENERALLY SSRI's have more benign s/effect profiles - but certainly not in the whole population!
Clinical studies have showed over and over the vast superiority of TCA's & MAOI's over the newer SSRI. This material has tried to be quashed by certain drug companies.
However, TCA and MAOI drugs DO indeed usually have more s/eefects and take longer- sometimes years- to go.
Also, I think most physicians would be reluctant to start TCAs or MAOIs without a thorough trial on SSRIs.
This really annoys me!!!!! Shipko MD has widely claimed (with clinicals studies to support hisa claims) the fact that SSRI's contribute to depletion of DOPAMINE IN THE SUBSTANTIA NIGRA. This is a fancy name for a part of the brain which, in horizontal sections, looks like two dark whiskers....contains DA neurons....we loose 60% of DA naturally....now, it is possible that we are going to see in years to come a lot of ex SSRI long time users with Parkinsons d/ease.
But please research and draw your own conclusuions. I personally agree with Shipko.
Well, that has nothing to do with seroquel--my daughter who is alcoholic with an ED finds it to be an exrtremely reliable anxiolytic at low dose.
Very true. But has she tried any Benzos??
She takes prn at this point. Preferable for her because of substance abuse history--loves benzos but recognizes this is not a wise choice for her,Very wise decision....benzo's + substance abuse is not a good mix!
Take care!
Ace
Posted by fca on September 30, 2006, at 11:11:46
In reply to Re: Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose » fca, posted by ace on September 29, 2006, at 22:01:17
Ace, one of the pdocs with whom I work expressed some of the same concerns as you regarding Pakinsonian symptoms in long term SSRI users--she has had a several patients (out of thousands btw) where she feels there has been the appearance of TD--unable to clearly tie it to SSRI because of long history with psych meds--This is not a real concern of mine (I am 64) but I do have an academic and professional interest in it--do you have any particular references--it will save some googling Thanks fca
Posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2006, at 19:14:04
In reply to Re: Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose, posted by fca on September 30, 2006, at 11:11:46
I think Ace got blocked on another thread for a week. Love Phillipa so google away.
Posted by ace on September 30, 2006, at 22:42:21
In reply to Re: Pros and Cons of Seroquel low dose, posted by fca on September 30, 2006, at 11:11:46
> Ace, one of the pdocs with whom I work expressed some of the same concerns as you regarding Pakinsonian symptoms in long term SSRI users--she has had a several patients (out of thousands btw) where she feels there has been the appearance of TD--unable to clearly tie it to SSRI because of long history with psych meds--This is not a real concern of mine (I am 64) but I do have an academic and professional interest in it--do you have any particular references--it will save some googling Thanks fca
Hi mate!OK...at your age you have already lost 60% of your dopamine in the substantia nigra - this was clinically proven by Shipko, wh0 is both an Neurologist and Psychiatrist. Dr. Shipko is very pro Xanax, and I can see the validity in all his points....basically I read his interview and then went to my neuroanatomical books and did my own research to verify his claims. The best reference I can give is the interview
http://www.power-surge.com/transcripts/shipko8.htm
there are many with him but, and at times he does indeed contradict himself.
I'm crossing my fingers that we are not going to see what happened with the neuoleptics.
i have grave reservations of people who have been on Prozac for say 20+ yrs. I am very confident to say that I believe the ongoing use of SSRI's will further cause motor problems, and, indeed, Parkinsons etc
I never recommend anyone try an SSRI.
Reply back mate!
Andrew
Posted by tessellated on October 1, 2006, at 0:12:47
In reply to Re: SSRI dopamine issues. » fca, posted by ace on September 30, 2006, at 22:42:21
Ace,
My Pdoc is in the same damn building as shipko, and i had him as a reference, but went with a guy who also has a PhD and does analysis. I was taken aback a moment when i saw the address.
Their practice is full of victorian era antiques in a craftmanstyle home a very victorian/freudian feel.Recently I had a psychotic break from Parnate withdrawl and (for the second time) seroquel was suggested. I've noticed a tremendous sedation from 100mg. Its like 14 hours, but then lifts. I've added wellbutrin 150, which works like a charm and had a pretty normal day-which is wondrous, except that it started with feeling like a rock. I'm going to drop to 50 and see if it reduces the excess sedation.
But nevertheless, only plan on using it for a week or two to guarentee the end of the psychosis, for which it was primarily developed.
Personally, xanax is much more selective for anxiety. I wouldn't want to expose my offspring to dopamine inhibitors unless absolutely necessary. As well generally I'm very optimistic re: MAOI's, but would be cautious with kids because of the tyramine SE, which btw I never had even once after almost two years as a user.
Ace are you in LA?
I'm realizing I'd be interested in a user group (something like AA meetings) that folks like us could share as we do here. I've found that both this and group can often help dramatically with the sense of personal isolation affective disorders assert at times.l8ted
> > Ace, one of the pdocs with whom I work expressed some of the same concerns as you regarding Pakinsonian symptoms in long term SSRI users--she has had a several patients (out of thousands btw) where she feels there has been the appearance of TD--unable to clearly tie it to SSRI because of long history with psych meds--This is not a real concern of mine (I am 64) but I do have an academic and professional interest in it--do you have any particular references--it will save some googling Thanks fca
>
>
> Hi mate!
>
> OK...at your age you have already lost 60% of your dopamine in the substantia nigra - this was clinically proven by Shipko, wh0 is both an Neurologist and Psychiatrist. Dr. Shipko is very pro Xanax, and I can see the validity in all his points....basically I read his interview and then went to my neuroanatomical books and did my own research to verify his claims. The best reference I can give is the interview
>
> http://www.power-surge.com/transcripts/shipko8.htm
>
> there are many with him but, and at times he does indeed contradict himself.
>
> I'm crossing my fingers that we are not going to see what happened with the neuoleptics.
>
> i have grave reservations of people who have been on Prozac for say 20+ yrs. I am very confident to say that I believe the ongoing use of SSRI's will further cause motor problems, and, indeed, Parkinsons etc
>
> I never recommend anyone try an SSRI.
>
> Reply back mate!
> Andrew
>
>
Posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 2:29:20
In reply to Re: SSRI dopamine issues. » fca, posted by ace on September 30, 2006, at 22:42:21
> I'm crossing my fingers that we are not going to see what happened with the neuoleptics.
I hadn't thought to do that, but ok.
> i have grave reservations of people who have been on Prozac for say 20+ yrs.
The paradox for me is that I would need an SSRI to regain the brainpower necessary to do the research necessary to really look into this.
> I am very confident to say that I believe the ongoing use of SSRI's will further cause motor problems, and, indeed, Parkinsons etc
To say that you are very confident is to make quite an announcement.
I do hope you will share with us some of that evidence which has convinced you so thoroughly so that we can all make more informed adult decisions.
I don't often get to look at basic research anymore, so it will be a refreshing change for me to be directed to some of the work being done in this area and that you find relevant to your thesis. I am guessing that most of it will be over my head, though.
I understand that SSRI drugs have the potential to produce EPS as reports indicate, but with a surprisingly low rate of occurence. Are these, then, to be taken as harbingers of a large cohort of Parkinsons patients to arrive 10-20 years from now?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 11:00:19
In reply to Re: SSRI dopamine issues. » fca, posted by ace on September 30, 2006, at 22:42:21
This is about as good as it gets. This looks like a great literature review. (Please see below).
I'll let this one sit for awhile until I can collect my energies. Obviously, the SSRIs are driving the dopaminergic pathways indirectly towards producing EPS (extrapyramidal symptoms). This might not be a problem if once removed the EPS stops. This is a different situation entirely from the direct action of neuroleptic antipsychotics on the dopaminergic neurons. Unfortunately, the reversibility of these EPS could not be assessed in the study.
I would like to know in how many different ways prodromal serotonin syndrome can present. I was once given trazodone, a weak to moderate serotonin reuptake inhibitor, while taking clorgyline, a potent MAO-A inhibitor. I could not get my legs to move in order to walk. They would not go when given the usual command. It sure looked like a dystonic reaction. However, if I pretended that I was performing an exercise on a Nautilus machine, I could produce the movements necessary to walk. This was not a dopaminergic dystonia. This was determined at the NIH to be a serotonergic reaction. So, I wonder how many of these reports of EPS are actually manifestations of serotonin syndrome.
Excess serotonergic activity often begins near the head and moves downward. It is no wonder that some of the reports were of "tardive dyskinesia". As you or I would experience bruxism, some of these people probably experienced dystonic movements of the neck and jaw and cheek. If these people had true TD, the cases would have been reported as being persistent after drug discontinuation. No such comments were made in the abstract. I think it is possible that much of the dystonia and parkinsonian symptoms were actually serotonin syndrome reactions. Serotonin syndrome is very variable in its presentation.
That an SSRI can make Parkinsons worse does not mean that an SSRI can cause Parkinsons. Again, the application of an SSRI produces changes that indirectly affect the dopaminergic pathways that have deteriorated due to the disease process. That is about all that can be concluded. In a healthy brain, does applying this same change along the same pathways induce the irreversible disease processes of Parkinsons? That is too large a leap to make as far as I'm concerned. If you have an open sore on your right arm and I apply firm pressure with my index finger, you will recoil in pain. If I apply the same pressure to your other healthy arm, there is no harm done and no pain is experienced.
I have to believe that many of the reports of EPS are genuine EPS. The incidence is very low, though. I also share your concern about the possible effects of long-term administration of the SSRIs. One must remember, though, that the TCAs and MAOIs have been out for over 40 years, and many people have been on them for decades. They too, have been known to produce EPS reports (Please see below), although the more recent reporting for the SSRIs have produced greater numbers. TCAs and MAOIs can therefore be added to the SSRIs in the category of potential offenders. After 40 years, I don't know that they have demonstrated the induction of Parkinsons, or any other movement disorders. One would think that some associations and reports would have surfaced by now.
Yes, the SSRIs look suspicious.
I would just offer that
1) many of the cases of dystonia reported as EPS might have been serotonin syndrome and
2) that driving activity of dopaminergic pathways in the wrong direction indirectly with an SSRI such that it exacerbates Parkinsons is not the same as inducing the neurodegenerative disease process in a healthy person.
- Scott
--------------------------------------------
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=pubmed
J Clin Psychiatry. 1996 Oct;57(10):449-54. Related Articles, LinksComment in:
* J Clin Psychiatry. 1997 Sep;58(9):403-4.
* J Clin Psychiatry. 1998 Mar;59(3):133.
Movement disorders associated with the serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors.Leo RJ.
Department of Psychiatry, School of Medicine, State University of New York at Buffalo 14215, USA.
BACKGROUND: To review the case reports and case series of movement disorders ascribed to the use of serotonin selective reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). METHOD: Reports of SSRI-induced extrapyramidal symptoms (EPS) in the literature were located using a MEDLINE search and review of bibliographies. RESULTS: Among the 71 cases of SSRI-induced EPS reported in the literature, the most common side effect was akathisia (45.1%), followed by dystonia (28.2%), parkinsonism (14.1%), and tardive dyskinesia-like states (11.3%). Among patients with Parkinson's disease treated with SSRIs, there were 16 cases of worsening parkinsonism. Patients who developed dystonia, parkinsonism, or tardive dyskinesia were older on average than patients with akathisia; 67.6% of affected patients were females. Fluoxetine, the most commonly prescribed SSRI to date, was implicated in 53 (74.6%) of cases of SSRI-induced EPS. Several reports (57.7%) were confounded by the concomitant use of other medications that can contribute to the development of EPS. CONCLUSION: SSRI-induced EPS are probably related to agonism of serotonergic input to dopaminergic pathways within the CNS. Several patient-dependent and pharmacokinetic variables may determine the likelihood that EPS will emerge. Although these side effects are infrequent, clinicians should be alert to the possibility of their occurrence.
Publication Types:
* Review
PMID: 8909330 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9315989&query_hl=18&itool=pubmed_docsum
J Clin Psychopharmacol. 1997 Oct;17(5):377-89. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Extrapyramidal symptoms associated with cyclic antidepressant treatment: a review of the literature and consolidating hypotheses.
Gill HS, DeVane CL, Risch SC.
Department of Psychiatry, Medical University of South Carolina, Charleston 29425-0742, USA.
Extrapyramidal symptoms (EPS) including parkinsonism, akathisia, dystonia, and tardive dyskinesia have commonly been associated with acute or chronic administration of neuroleptic drugs. A review of the medical literature reveals a substantial number of cases with similar clinical characteristics associated with the tricyclic antidepressants, monoamine oxidase inhibitors, and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Although the data are not sufficient to make definitive pharmacoepidemiologic conclusions, the available number of case reports suggests the SSRIs may be more common offenders in producing these adverse drug effects. The exact mechanism is elusive but likely involves complex interactions of dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine between cortical structures and the basal ganglia. The final common pathway for production of EPS seems to be indirect modulation of dopaminergic function. Predictors of patients at risk for antidepressant-induced EPS are not established, but a greater awareness of the potential for these drug side effects to occur may increase their recognition and decrease antidepressant-induced morbidity.
Publication Types:
* Review
PMID: 9315989 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2006, at 18:33:30
In reply to Re: SSRI dopamine issues. » ace, posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 11:00:19
I wonder how many people will go off SSRI's after reading this?Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 22:19:29
In reply to Re: SSRI dopamine issues., posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2006, at 18:33:30
> I wonder how many people will go off SSRI's after reading this?Love Phillipa
I hope none just yet.I am concerned that there is a problem with SSRIs producing EPS in a very small percentage of people. I am very interested to know more about the biology behind these phenomena.
Did you know that EPS is listed as a potential rare side effect on the label for Prozac? No conspiracy theories yet? That's good.
Extrapyramidal side effects are not the same as the induction of a degenerative disease process like Parkinsons. As far as developing motor tics or dyskinesias, I think we should have been seeing more of this after 20 years of Prozac if it were going to be a problem.
It is easy to accuse a drug of being potentially dangerous by saying we don't know what its long-term effects will be. You can say that about so many drugs. With Prozac and friends, we seem to have an infrequent or even rare side effect of EPS and the reversible worsening of Parkinsons. I don't feel we can yet extrapolate that data into concluding that these will result in future cases of Parkinson's Disease, dystonias or other movement disorders, motor tics or Tourettes, or tardive dyskinesia. Let's look at it. Let's be careful what we become confident in concluding before we take away effective drugs out of people's hands.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2006, at 22:25:22
In reply to Re: SSRI dopamine issues. » Phillipa, posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 22:19:29
Scott I hope you're right can you imagine the world and it's people 20years after being on an SSRI if it were true. Medicaire thinks they have problems now. But people would have all kinds of movement disorders what a mess. Love Phillipa ps I know I'm not L
Posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:23:03
In reply to Re: SSRI dopamine issues. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2006, at 22:25:22
i have movement problems with SSRIs, and after, as in to this day. most apparent is bruxism, daytime bruxism, does not meet the typical definition of bruxism as a night-time screeching grinding. this is during the day, nearly everyday, spontaneous horizontal gnashing. i have worn down my molars on one side doing this for years, but not the other. (the gnash leads to a sharp up direction on the one non-worn side, so my jaw just tends to slide back and forth back and forth where there it isn't stopped by the upturn and just stresses the already flat teeth.) it's like a nervous activity, it is often present with anxiety, but is also often not. (though slightly less often; it very often accompanies a "rigid" anxiety which i hope to try to explain...)
i have problems with rigidity that has consitent eerie feelings of being connected to the dopaminergic problems of not being able to initiate behviour. it's feelings of being both physical and mental are very difficult to describe, but i can only describe it as being paradoxically related to akithasia. it is very unnerving. going along with my feelings with my concentration, thought, and mood-like problems of feeling like my brain is setting like cement. it can be hell, and these half-in-stone half-intensely agitated states has had me get myself to the ER on more than one occassion. one most notably where i could not stop gaping my mouth open, i could tell myself to stop, and stop, but it would make myself extremely more agitated than letting the tense muscles just freeze into it. as soon as i would forget i was stopping the gaping i'd be doing it again. (similar to experience with my efforts to control the bruxism)
myclonic jerks, i have less and less of these now. they as with the bruxism started with paxil. paxil started most of these effects. initially the problems were shivering and akithisia. then the jerks came, and were noticable and notable to other patients on the ward but doctors just shrugged. i had multiple episodes of writing in my bed, unable to stop moving, feeling very desperate frantic and fast feelings of dread. i wonder if this is what other people experience as "wanting to crawl out of their skin" but i didn't experience that imagery. (i do get odd tactile electric skin anxiety VERY frequently though, again i compare this to akithisic feeling) i made multiple suicide attempts on paxil and one on celexa months before. i have never attempted suicide off of an SSRI.
BEFORE both of these, and its a problem thats been on again off again over the year and relates to the others, and one episode of luvox. it is the climbing of my face that happened before PAXIL, but now i suspiciously connect it to my early teen prozac use for a year or two. when i am doing something idle like reading or on the computer my sometimes facial muscles tense up and i can't stop doing these wierd smiles that make me look literally like a developmentally delayed person or demented old person masturbating or something. i don't mean to be ridiculous. but the facial movement (freezing positions) i get are ridiculous. and if i don't have the strength to keep myself on an activity during these, i writhe and cant stop moving. these have been more few and far between. but my last ER visit had more of the can't stop moving effects. (though different from others, with much less constant facial twisting and hunching over) years ago, a one-day LUVOX trial when i hadn't had ssris for a year threw me into one of these, and a friend called me and said i sounded terrifying on the phone and stayed with me on the phone all night.
really these problems are insane. usually they are just part of the day, but putting them all together is insane. especially because they make you feel like you are making the symptoms up when the doctors just shrug at you. THEN YOU SEE ON THE INTERNET SYMPTOMS STARTLING SIMILAR TO YOURS.
then, you don't know what causes them. it's pretty certain that SSRIs at the very least potentiate and grossly magnify the effects with me. PAXIL caused the onset of enough of them.
now to bring up multiple factors on what could all make me a case at risk for this, unlike most other people in some certain cases:
-as a kid diagnosed with both ADHD and asperger's by doctors who couldnt agree on anything... i was on stimulants off and on during my childhood. stimilant conditioning has known to do very strange things to a brain, especially when initiated during childhood. (i do have a pretty large head though.)
-extremely f--ked-up strong reactions to illicit drugs in my teens that no one else i knew shared. i would panic and go crazy sometimes, and be a babbling moron othertimes. in all cases, i was much more incapacitated that my friends and very difficult to handle.
-i show Lyme antibodies in my blood and a lot of my symptom presentations are eerily shared by many neurolyme sufferers (including parkisinonian-like movement problems.) at the same time, this is not a part of any intensely researched part of medicine, and many people end up in dead end situations where they just don't get well. it is also widely debated if the disease exists. if you check the debates though, anti-Lyme types seem to cling to disproven studies and bring a lot less impressive research to the table. ironically or not-so ironically, however, the CDC loves them. i don't understand their awkward politics, but i do get that they are pretty apathetic to anything they can classify as a "non-illness"... for example, like CFS or fibro.
-i collected and injested pesticide beads on several occasions as a kid from a neighbours lawn, and my dad worries about a chemical he heard was very dangerous in the last few years that treated the wood he made my sandbox out of as a kid. i spent years in the sandbox.
-I AM A PERSON THAT GETS BETTER UPON SSRI WITHDRAWL. ESPECIALLY PAXIL. this seems to have a pro-cholinergic mechanism, but i would not be surprised if it had dopaminergic effects as well. i was immediately more energetic, (and calm), and was for a few days actually on top of things. getting tasks really behind me, and feeling it for once. unfortunately they lasted at most a week. I KEEP LOOKING FOR MORE MEDICAL JOURNAL INFO ON THIS, IF ANYONE HAS ANY PLEASE SEND. I KNOW IT EXISTS. I WANT TO KNOW OF ANY RELEVANT CLINICAL TERMS. I HAVE A FEW ARTICLES COINCIDENTALLY ON SSRI-WITHDRAWL INDUCED MANIA, BUT THATS IT.
anyway, if you want more info on my experience that is it.
i have been trying to piece things together for years, cos not only my hunch of all these things being tied together AND WITH MY TERRIBLE CURRENTLY DISABLED FUNCTIONING AND ZERO-QUALITY OF LIFE. and everything i read seems to piece this together as well too. with the doctors shrugging at so much, you really find out that they really DO NOT KNOW everything... and really that isn't even their job. everything is a mess now, and no one has the job of giving answers it seems. its all up to you, the miserable restless and lifeless insomniac, and pubmed.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:25:44
In reply to my experience, posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:23:03
Posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:30:38
In reply to my experience, posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:23:03
"i have never attempted suicide off of an SSRI."
when i say this i meant: I HAVE NEVER FOLLOWED THROUGH AND ATTEMPTED SUICIDE WHILE NOT ON AN SSRI. (despite contant suicidal ideation and rumination off SSRIs, only while on SSRIs did I carry these feelings out.)
sorry i have extreme difficulty at making long posts. please excuse any more that may be difficult to understand. hopefully i am getting things through properly to some extent.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:39:41
In reply to my experience, posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:23:03
after this i am going to bed, i am just not coherent
"anyway, if you want more info on my experience that is it."
i didnt mean to say whatever i typed when writing this sentence. i think by the end of the sentence, "that is it", i thought i was saying something else... or put two homeless sentences together accidentally and not noticing, or something...
i am very out of sorts tonight.
anyway i meant to say:
"anyway, if anyone wants more info on my experience please ask (and i may get things out better in a shorter message.)"
thank you. arg! :( night night
Posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 8:38:31
In reply to my experience, posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:23:03
i have been using buspirone for days. not many beneficial effects. still brux. feel stupid and tired.
i am not exactly early onset though. i will give it a bit more time.
"Successful electroconvulsive therapy in major depression with fluvoxamine-induced bruxism."
"Both the depressive symptoms and bruxism completely remitted after six treatments. Possible mechanisms of this effect are discussed."
I would really like to get the full text and know what the "possible mechanisms" are! They use ECT to ameliorate Parkisons symptoms with some suprising levels of success sometimes. It is likely related.
I have been wanting to try ECT for years. Don't know how likely it is I ever will...
Posted by SLS on October 3, 2006, at 10:21:20
In reply to my experience, posted by iforgotmypassword on October 3, 2006, at 3:23:03
I can't read all of your post, it is too long for me.
Maybe you can shorten it, issuing two or three sentences for each point you need to make.
It sounds like you might be have a problem with 5-HT autoreceptors not upregulating after discontinuing the SSRI. You are getting too much serotonin. I have to think about it more, though.
Bruxism can also be a sign of a mixed state hypomania. Are you bipolar?
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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