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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mike lynch on June 20, 2006, at 16:52:02
Adderall seems to be such a horrid drug for me, this is unfortunate in that, while I am on it I seem to get the beneficial effects. Though, as for long as it benefits me, for the same amount of time it always turns on me in a brutal,sadistic way. I'll be on it and everything will be awesome, but then as withdrawal kicks in, I can not be bothered to do anything, talk to anyone for as much as 3 hours. I sit in my room in a dysphoric haze, just not wanting to do anything but jump out the window. I am on extended release, and the med would be pretty beneficial if the negative after effects weren't present, it's pretty frustrating. I'd think that there could be a possibility that I am on two high of a dose (20mg) I remember taking 10 in second grade, and I knew it worked, and I wasn't even aware as to what withdrawal was while I was on the drug back them, I don't remember ever experiencing it.
I swear when the drug removes itself from my system, the hours that proceed, feel as though I was at an all night rave high on uppers and I am now enduring the consequences, when all I actually did was take a perscription med ugh.
Posted by Ripley Snell on June 20, 2006, at 20:47:35
In reply to Why does adderall suck so much, posted by mike lynch on June 20, 2006, at 16:52:02
You write, about Adderall: Though, as for long as it benefits me, for the same amount of time it always turns on me in a brutal,sadistic way. I'll be on it and everything will be awesome, but then as withdrawal kicks in, I can not be bothered to do anything, talk to anyone for as much as 3 hours.
But you lament: "The med would be pretty beneficial if the negative after effects weren't present, it's pretty frustrating. I'd think that there could be a possibility that I am on two high of a dose (20mg)."
It's amphetamine, for Lord's sake! I take 80 - 100 mg per day, but that's because in the next two weeks I've got to get a lot of writing done, writing I don't want to do, and Adderall (or Ritalin) help me focus and make the task easier. Have you tried Ritalin? The crash is much shorter.Other things that ease the crash (for me): a low dose of a benzodiazepine such as lorazepam or clonazepam; my nightly dose of Seroquel; or (ha ha!) a drink.
As I am bipolar, one might think that Adderall could trigger a dangerous manic episode, and there was one time that I couldn't resist spending $500 on books during the peak of an Adderall high when I should have been typing. Fortunately, I was able to return them! But truly, taking a little extra Seroquel (which, for me, is an excellent anti-manic) along with the Adderall smooths things out considerably.
If, however, you're taking the stuff to augment an antidepressant, you could try other strategies . . . a post-synaptic dopamine agonist (antiParkinsonian meds such as pramipexole or pergolide) . . . thyroid . . . Lamictal . . . testosterone . . . an "activating" antidepressant such as Effexor, Prozac, or EMSAM.
Could you isolate and describe how the Adderall helps when it's actually working, and not being eliminated from your system? Then you might be able to find a drug that produces that effect without the side effects you describe. Too bad, though; I think it's quite effective, and just as the "crash" hits, I'm ready for bed.
Be well
Snell.
Posted by mike lynch on June 21, 2006, at 4:01:13
In reply to Re: Why does adderall suck so much » mike lynch, posted by Ripley Snell on June 20, 2006, at 20:47:35
>
>
> It's amphetamine, for Lord's sake! I take 80 - 100 mg per dayUmm rigght. That just doesen't sound right.. anyway. I've been on a litanly of stimulants in an effort to improve concentration and motivation. Most of the stimulants provide me with just that, but the problem involves the fact that they're all accompanied with the unbearable crash. Adderall is the drug that works BEST while it's working, but it may have the worst withdrawal out of all the stimulants I have tried, which I think is every single one that is legal in the united states. I'm beginning to think it's not even worth smoothing out the crash if it has to be achieved by taking other drugs. I just want to abstain from toppling med after med into my regimine. Ultimately I just needed something for focus and motivation, that's all. I just don't know why stimulants hate me so much :/
Posted by Ripley Snell on June 21, 2006, at 4:41:52
In reply to Re: Why does adderall suck so much, posted by mike lynch on June 21, 2006, at 4:01:13
> >
OP:
> > It's amphetamine, for Lord's sake! I take 80 - 100 mg per dayResponder:
> Umm rigght. // I know just how you're saying that "rigght,"
like David Spade, sort of a big eye roll and lots of mugging to the audience. The audience is, together with Spade, so proud of itself it relaxes and actually has not a bad time at the movie. So why tell me "Umm rigght," when I say it's amphetamine?My point is that it's a heavy drug; it's an amphetamine. No class of stimulants is as strong, despite being called Adderall and Ritalin.
I like people's "I am Albert Einstein with better hair" attitudes. "You are *such* a complete fool that I have to lift my forearms and type in a *correction* so you can *learn*"--"ummm, buh-bye."
anyway. I've been on a litanly of stimulants in an effort to improve concentration and motivation.
That doesn't sound too good either; do you know what "litany" means? It doesn't mean series. It means a long prayer or complaint to God during misfortune. I'm glad you found out that the cure for everything from non-Hodgkin's lymphoma to HIV is right here; we just can't see it yet.Snell
Posted by mike lynch on June 21, 2006, at 5:44:41
In reply to Re: Why does adderall suck so much » mike lynch, posted by Ripley Snell on June 21, 2006, at 4:41:52
> > >
> OP:
> > > It's amphetamine, for Lord's sake! I take 80 - 100 mg per day
>
>
>
> Responder:
> > Umm rigght. /
>
> / I know just how you're saying that "rigght,"
> like David Spade, sort of a big eye roll and lots of mugging to the audience. The audience is, together with Spade, so proud of itself it relaxes and actually has not a bad time at the movie. So why tell me "Umm rigght," when I say it's amphetamine?
>
> My point is that it's a heavy drug; it's an amphetamine. No class of stimulants is as strong, despite being called Adderall and Ritalin.
>
> I like people's "I am Albert Einstein with better hair" attitudes. "You are *such* a complete fool that I have to lift my forearms and type in a *correction* so you can *learn*"--"ummm, buh-bye."
>
>
>
> anyway. I've been on a litanly of stimulants in an effort to improve concentration and motivation.
>
>
> That doesn't sound too good either; do you know what "litany" means? It doesn't mean series. It means a long prayer or complaint to God during misfortune. I'm glad you found out that the cure for everything from non-Hodgkin's lymphoma to HIV is right here; we just can't see it yet.
>
> Snell
Ok well your post seems to have been constructed under some heavy amphetamine abuse. I was not questioning the amphetamine, I know it's an amphetamine, I was questioning the 100 mg a day which is a lot, maybe to much, and this theory is just justified by your wierd posts. And with the litany..oh my holy sh*t your right. Anyway I'm going to bed I'm tired
Posted by Ripley Snell on June 21, 2006, at 10:13:52
In reply to Re: Why does adderall suck so much, posted by mike lynch on June 21, 2006, at 5:46:00
Dear Mike,
I'm sorry that my post angered you. Your barbed comment that I suffer from amphetamine abuse seems to be the kind of counter-attack made by someone who, himself, feels attacked. I did not at all want you to feel that way. I apologize for not being more careful with the tone of my post. I was trying to joke a bit with the "For Lord's sake, it's amphetamine" line, but sometimes phrases or sentences uttered without vocal inflection can seem insulting instead of joking.
I am not going to get into whether or not I suffer from "amphetamine abuse" other than to assure you that the medicine, as well as many others, is prescribed by a board-certified psychopharmacologist who has a faculty appointment at Brown University Med School and has been practicing for 25 years. Surely, that fact by itself doesn't mean my use (I'll use the word "use" rather than "abuse") of Adderall is necessarily healthy. It does indicate, however, that a highly-trained doctor is both allowing and supervising the use.
I responded to your post because I thought something in my experience might help you. Please forgive me if my post did the opposite.
You may wish to see my posts on alt.support.depression.manic and alt.support.depression.medication. Several regulars at those fora have said that my mini-seminars on certain drugs have been helpful--maybe if you read some of them, you'll change your opinion of my post.
Again, please accept my apology.
Best,
Ripley Snell
Posted by Racer on June 21, 2006, at 13:39:02
In reply to Why does adderall suck so much, posted by mike lynch on June 20, 2006, at 16:52:02
Adderall caused significant depression for me, which apparently is a known side effect of it.
Have you tried Dexedrine? Methylphenidate? Those were kinder to me, for whatever that's worth...
Posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 21:46:42
In reply to Why does adderall suck so much, posted by mike lynch on June 20, 2006, at 16:52:02
I take 10 mg adderall twice a day along with remeron (mirtazapine) and buspar (buspirone). You may want to augment the adderall with an antidepressant. SSRI's tend to make attention deficit worse. For me personally remeron helped somewhat with my working memory, attention and apathy. It also helps you get to sleep at night which can be good when using adderall. I started the remeron before taking the adderall so i don't know what it would be like taking adderall by itself. However, I don't seem to have any problems with withdrawal from it. Remeron may or may not work for you. Buspirone is also a possibility. It decreases serotonin and increases dopamine and norepinephrine. It also seems to help with concentration. Another thing i have tried was a european drug amisulpride which is an antipsychotic but at low doses increases dopamine. It also seemed to help augment the adderall and may lessen withdrawal symptoms. I believe that withdrawal is because the adderall increases dopamine and norepinephrine but your brain adjusts to the increase. So when the drug leaves your system you don't have enough of those neurotransmitters in your brain. There are supplements too which may theoretically alleviate this problem (NADH, tyrosine, mucana puriens (spelling?), omega 3). All of these supplements can increase dopamine/norepinephrine and can be bought without a prescription. Exercise doesn't hurt either.
Posted by jerrympls on June 24, 2006, at 2:27:26
In reply to Re: Why does adderall suck so much, posted by mike lynch on June 21, 2006, at 4:01:13
> >
> >
> > It's amphetamine, for Lord's sake! I take 80 - 100 mg per day
>
> Umm rigght. That just doesen't sound right.. anyway. I've been on a litanly of stimulants in an effort to improve concentration and motivation. Most of the stimulants provide me with just that, but the problem involves the fact that they're all accompanied with the unbearable crash. Adderall is the drug that works BEST while it's working, but it may have the worst withdrawal out of all the stimulants I have tried, which I think is every single one that is legal in the united states. I'm beginning to think it's not even worth smoothing out the crash if it has to be achieved by taking other drugs. I just want to abstain from toppling med after med into my regimine. Ultimately I just needed something for focus and motivation, that's all. I just don't know why stimulants hate me so much :/I'm in the same boat - so I can empathize. Adderall works so well for me - and it's the only thing really from keeping me from staying in bed the rest of my life - however, when it wears off, the dysphoria is extremely uncomfortable and depressing in its self. I take 20mg XR 3 x daily. There's no way once daily dosing would work - at least with me. The formulation is supposed to provide "8 hour relief" - so much for advertising. The problem is two-fold: 1) Adderall wears off 2) Presynaptic neurons "run out" of fuel. Some doctors think amphetamines cause "receptor burnout" however I am not convinced. In theory one could say that MAY be true - but I have not read any evidecen to support it.
But what to do about it? If you have a GOOD doctor - he'll understand and have some compassion. Sometimes doctors will prescribe some immediate release Adderall to supplement the XR but it's rare to find a doctor who show compassion and/or real knowledge of pharmacology and who isn't afriad to use it.
One simple thing to try is magnesium taurate. 125mg 3-4x daily works well for me. I've been taking it since April and it's helped lesssen the crash from Adderall considerablly. A benzodiazapine like Xanax, Ativan or Klonopin help too. However, watch out for the doctors who use the "They cancel each other out" excuse. They don't cancel each other out pharmacologically. This excuse is used moreso to keep the doctor more at ease so he/she doesn't have to worry about prescribing "addicitive" substances. So - they're really looking out for themselves before you - which is unfortunate. Best doctors are found at teaching hospitals at major universities like the University of Minnesota. The residents there were better than all the psychiatrists I've ever seen combined. And they're not afraid to use meds off-label and/or try novel med combinations.
I wish I had some better answers for you as I am trying to find them as well. It sucks to feel really good, productive, social, etc., and have it stripped of you day after day after day. The best thing to do is to talk to you doc. Perhaps overlapping two XR doses would help so that the "crash" happened at bedtime.
Also try the magnesium taurate (or magnesium glycinate). I've never been one for vitamin/mineral supplements - however, magnesium really does work.
Good luck - hang in there
Jerry
(current pharmacy student)
Posted by Paulbwell on June 26, 2006, at 6:48:07
In reply to Why does adderall suck so much, posted by mike lynch on June 20, 2006, at 16:52:02
> Adderall seems to be such a horrid drug for me, this is unfortunate in that, while I am on it I seem to get the beneficial effects. Though, as for long as it benefits me, for the same amount of time it always turns on me in a brutal,sadistic way. I'll be on it and everything will be awesome, but then as withdrawal kicks in, I can not be bothered to do anything, talk to anyone for as much as 3 hours. I sit in my room in a dysphoric haze, just not wanting to do anything but jump out the window. I am on extended release, and the med would be pretty beneficial if the negative after effects weren't present, it's pretty frustrating. I'd think that there could be a possibility that I am on two high of a dose (20mg) I remember taking 10 in second grade, and I knew it worked, and I wasn't even aware as to what withdrawal was while I was on the drug back them, I don't remember ever experiencing it.
>
> I swear when the drug removes itself from my system, the hours that proceed, feel as though I was at an all night rave high on uppers and I am now enduring the consequences, when all I actually did was take a perscription med ugh.I am going to seea PsyDoc tomorrow,in 10 hrs, looking tired might help:), and will ask/hint about 'another' ADD/HD treatment. Dexis prefered by many!!, wither greater effects-less SEs
Cheers
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