![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by tygereyes on March 28, 2006, at 20:26:49
In reply to Aiming for hypomania ?, posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 16:02:01
I agree 100%. I don't know if "hypomania" is the word but when I started taking Parnate, I felt *something* that was distinctly euphoric and EXTREMELY similar to the feeling I got when abusing drugs. This is why I began abusing Parnate when it was first Rx'ed to me, because the euphoria began to wear off and I was left with merely ... happiness and stability. A good feeling for someone who wants to alleviate depression, true, but when your initial response is SO euphoric and you just happen to be a drug addict, you will do anything to hold onto that feeling - as I did.
Getting off Parnate now due to acne and severe insomnia ... but somehow I really feel like, if the euphoria had persisted, I would have stayed on this med regardless of bad side effects.
> Aiming for hypomania isn't really a good thing. Oh sure, some of us think we can trick the brain, and tap into some sort of secret happiness resources, its a self serving bias, but the brain is always smarter.
>
> Maybe I will get babble-warned for this statement but oh well.
>
> There just seems to be this hidden conscencious that taking an MAOI will give keep you in some permanant euphoric state, but its not true, and I don't think that promoting it is a safe measure.
>
> Sure they are strong drugs, but I still don't think it is that wise to aim for hypomania. It is not really a normal state and can be very taxing on the brain and body.
>
> I think if you aim to feel normal that you people might have a better chance at achieving long term mental health.
>
>
> Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 21:23:19
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ?, posted by tygereyes on March 28, 2006, at 20:26:49
I agree that feeling good is very perpetuating (and addictive), I guess I am just saying that when we are confronted with treatment options that it is probably in our best long term interest to be thinking of those medications that will help us feel normal, and not better than normal. I'm really just speaking from some of my own experiences, that if there was a period of feeling better than normal, it was always acompanied by a worse than normal state.
I guess I just get a little concerned when I see the "aim for better than normal" view promoted.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 21:28:43
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » linkadge, posted by scatterbrained on March 28, 2006, at 17:41:24
I realize that most people are using MAOI's as a last term treatment option, and all the best to them in their recovery. I don't know, I just sometimes feel that this class of drugs are sometimes promoted as "feel better than normal pills".
Strictly speaking of AD's as a class of medications, the MAOI's actually can (and were discovered) based on their propensity to make well people slightly hypomanic, although I don't think its safe to promote them for this purpose.
Perhaps I am just seeing into things, if so I apologise.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2006, at 22:37:43
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » scatterbrained, posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 21:28:43
Link I have to agree with you I think they should be used as a last stage drug. A good example is our friend above. Love Phillipa
Posted by JaclinHyde on March 28, 2006, at 22:43:01
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » scatterbrained, posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 21:28:43
> Strictly speaking of AD's as a class of medications, the MAOI's actually can (and were discovered) based on their propensity to make well people slightly hypomanic, although I don't think its safe to promote them for this purpose.
>
> Perhaps I am just seeing into things, if so I apologise.
>
> LinkadgeHate to contradict you but the he MAOI's were developed as a potential cure for TB which at the time was running rampant. They found that these sick depressed patients ended up with a better outlook on life.
And I have 25+ years on this type of drug so I consider myself somewhat of an expert. And finally here is an article from the Harvard University Gazette on the patch.
"Selegiline is a so-called monamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI), a class of drugs considered the most effective for fighting depression. "MAOIs are well-known for the completeness and robustness of their response," Bodkin comments.
Prozac-like drugs can cause headaches, anxiety, apathy, insomnia, nausea, and loss of sexual interest. Selegiline is free of such side effects. Prozac-like drugs relieve distress but usually do not produce a feeling of well-being. Selegiline and other MAOIs often leave patients feeling elated for the first time, a condition sometimes referred to as "remission with delight."
The first of these drugs was discovered accidentally in 1952 by David Bosworth, an orthopedic surgeon in New York City. While trying to find a drug to relieve the bone and joint pain of tuberculosis, he experimented with a new antibiotic known as marsilid. Coincidentally, marsilid is also an MAOI.
Along with relief from tubercular pain, Bosworth noted that his patients developed a state of elation and a feeling of vitality. The patient is left, noted Bosworth, with "a normally optimistic instead of a depressed attitude."
"This trial, like the first, is exciting not only because it is testing a new delivery system for a powerful treatment of the most common psychiatric disease in the world," Bodkin says, "but because it is resurrecting the first family of antidepressants ever introduced - ONE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN SURPASSED IN EFFICACY." (my caps)
The full article can be found here: http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/12.10/depression.html
Peace,
JH
Posted by scatterbrained on March 29, 2006, at 0:50:35
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » scatterbrained, posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 21:28:43
I tend to see the stims more in that light.After all the stimulants are probably along with sleeping pills and benzos, the most likely psychotropics to get abused; thats not to say that they don't have there place. I've never heard of people abusing maoi's, foaming at the mouth and whatnot.
Posted by linkadge on March 29, 2006, at 9:41:15
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ?, posted by JaclinHyde on March 28, 2006, at 22:43:01
There are different takes on these initial studies. Not all of those TB patients had actual clinical depression, yet they all seemed to show behavioral activation as a result of the MAOI.
There have been other studies that have shown that the MAOI's can result in activation even in normals.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 29, 2006, at 9:43:07
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » linkadge, posted by scatterbrained on March 29, 2006, at 0:50:35
Parnate is an abused substance. It's not readily available but it is still abused. One of my drugie friends said he'd "done parnate".
Linkadge
Posted by TylerJ on March 29, 2006, at 10:26:34
In reply to Aiming for hypomania ?, posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 16:02:01
> Aiming for hypomania isn't really a good thing. Oh sure, some of us think we can trick the brain, and tap into some sort of secret happiness resources, its a self serving bias, but the brain is always smarter.
>
> Maybe I will get babble-warned for this statement but oh well.
>
> There just seems to be this hidden conscencious that taking an MAOI will give keep you in some permanant euphoric state, but its not true, and I don't think that promoting it is a safe measure.
>
> Sure they are strong drugs, but I still don't think it is that wise to aim for hypomania. It is not really a normal state and can be very taxing on the brain and body.
>
> I think if you aim to feel normal that you people might have a better chance at achieving long term mental health.
>
>
> LinkadgeI'm not aiming for hypomania, but I am aiming for "Normalcy". Let's see, do I like being severely depressed, very anxious, being suicidal because each day is worse than the last...living in a hell on earth. Or, do I prefer feeling relaxed, happy, more energetic, enjoying my children and being a better Daddy for them, and not being Suicidal at all!! Yea, I think I'll take the latter even if I had to eat rocks every day to keep feeling "well".
Hey Linkadge, I'm sorry that you are so miserable in your own skin that you can't be happy that someone else who has suffered for 20 plus years is finally feeling good. I know it could all change for me tomorrow ( even though i doubt it ) but I'm going to enjoy what I have today.
Tyler
P.S. Call it hypomania if you want, I really don't give a f*ck!
Posted by linkadge on March 29, 2006, at 10:53:01
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » linkadge, posted by TylerJ on March 29, 2006, at 10:26:34
For starter, I wasn't referring to you at all, I was really referring to the general danger of trying to achieve hypmania.
>Or, do I prefer feeling relaxed, happy, more >energetic, enjoying my children and being a >better Daddy for them, and not being Suicidal at >all!! Yea, I think I'll take the latter even if >I had to eat rocks every day to keep >feeling "well".I just want people to stay well for as long as possible.
>Hey Linkadge, I'm sorry that you are so >miserable in your own skin that you can't be >happy that someone else who has suffered for 20 >plus years is finally feeling good.I really don't know what you're getting at. I'm glad that you're feeling good.
>I know it could all change for me tomorrow ( >even though i doubt it ) but I'm going to enjoy >what I have today.
All the best to you.
>P.S. Call it hypomania if you want, I really >don't give a f*ck!You know yourself better than I.
Linkadge
Posted by gibber on March 29, 2006, at 16:45:35
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » TylerJ, posted by linkadge on March 29, 2006, at 10:53:01
Who's trying to achieve hypomania?
Posted by linkadge on March 29, 2006, at 18:39:08
In reply to Who's trying to achieve hypomania?, posted by gibber on March 29, 2006, at 16:45:35
I wasn't really talking about anyone on this board. I guess I am referring to some of my own personal life's situations.
I know that one of my friends for instance, said that he was well on a certain dose, but twice that dose made him feel better, so that what he stayed with.
It wasn't meant to be a judment as much as just a topic for discussion ?
Linkadge
Posted by tygereyes on March 29, 2006, at 19:02:57
In reply to Who's trying to achieve hypomania?, posted by gibber on March 29, 2006, at 16:45:35
People REALLY need to stop getting offended when their drugs come "under fire" on this board.
SSRIs have also been criticized for altering personality and making one feel "better than well" (please see the book "Listening to Prozac" for a psychiatrist's view of this). It seems to me that the individuals who are most susceptible to this are individuals with a mood disorder and underlying personality disorder - but that's just my experience, from working as a psychiatric researcher and as a residential psychiatric health counselor.
Don't get me wrong - I am not anti-psychiatry and I am not anti-MAOIs. In fact, I am quite PRO-MAOIs, being that most physicians are so ignorant about medication and want to try every SSRI (which are perhaps THE most ineffective class of drugs on this planet, if you look at response rates vs. placebo) before even considering alternates. However, I think people need to be honest about what they are looking for in a medication. And it seems to me that many of the individuals on this board have underlying personality disorders & other psychopathology that does not readily respond to medication. Myself included.
And for those of you who claim Parnate cannot be abused/is not an abusable substance, please see:
<< http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/135/3/273 >>
<< http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1883016&dopt=Citation >>
<< http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1609897&dopt=Citation >>
<< http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9930640&dopt=Citation >>
<< http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7484306&dopt=Citation >>
<< http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=963135&dopt=Citation >>
<< http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2211541&dopt=Citation >>
<< http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=6057356&dopt=citation >>
Posted by TylerJ on March 29, 2006, at 21:59:36
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania?, posted by tygereyes on March 29, 2006, at 19:02:57
> People REALLY need to stop getting offended when their drugs come "under fire" on this board.
>
> SSRIs have also been criticized for altering personality and making one feel "better than well" (please see the book "Listening to Prozac" for a psychiatrist's view of this). It seems to me that the individuals who are most susceptible to this are individuals with a mood disorder and underlying personality disorder - but that's just my experience, from working as a psychiatric researcher and as a residential psychiatric health counselor.
>
> Don't get me wrong - I am not anti-psychiatry and I am not anti-MAOIs. In fact, I am quite PRO-MAOIs, being that most physicians are so ignorant about medication and want to try every SSRI (which are perhaps THE most ineffective class of drugs on this planet, if you look at response rates vs. placebo) before even considering alternates. However, I think people need to be honest about what they are looking for in a medication. And it seems to me that many of the individuals on this board have underlying personality disorders & other psychopathology that does not readily respond to medication. Myself included.
>
> And for those of you who claim Parnate cannot be abused/is not an abusable substance, please see:
>
> << http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/135/3/273 >>
>
> << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1883016&dopt=Citation >>
>
> << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1609897&dopt=Citation >>
>
> << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9930640&dopt=Citation >>
>
> << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7484306&dopt=Citation >>
>
> << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=963135&dopt=Citation >>
>
> << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2211541&dopt=Citation >>
>
> << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=6057356&dopt=citation >>I'm sure your right. Parnate has an amphetamine like effect on some people, and people abuse amphetamines all the time, so why not Parnate. As I'm sure most people here are aware that many if not most psychiatric drugs can be abused. All of the Benzos, the non benzo hypnotics, barbituates, pschostimulants, cognitive enhancers, and even Antiparkinsonian drugs. Also anti-convulsants...I know 2 people right now who are taking an absurd amount of Topomax to try to lose weight. And of course the Opiates. I'm sure I'm missing A LOT of drugs from this list. My opinion is if you abuse any of these meds they're obviously not going to work long term. But people will be people, and abuse will occur.
Tyler
Posted by tygereyes on March 29, 2006, at 22:15:02
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania? » tygereyes, posted by TylerJ on March 29, 2006, at 21:59:36
> > People REALLY need to stop getting offended when their drugs come "under fire" on this board.
> >
> > SSRIs have also been criticized for altering personality and making one feel "better than well" (please see the book "Listening to Prozac" for a psychiatrist's view of this). It seems to me that the individuals who are most susceptible to this are individuals with a mood disorder and underlying personality disorder - but that's just my experience, from working as a psychiatric researcher and as a residential psychiatric health counselor.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong - I am not anti-psychiatry and I am not anti-MAOIs. In fact, I am quite PRO-MAOIs, being that most physicians are so ignorant about medication and want to try every SSRI (which are perhaps THE most ineffective class of drugs on this planet, if you look at response rates vs. placebo) before even considering alternates. However, I think people need to be honest about what they are looking for in a medication. And it seems to me that many of the individuals on this board have underlying personality disorders & other psychopathology that does not readily respond to medication. Myself included.
> >
> > And for those of you who claim Parnate cannot be abused/is not an abusable substance, please see:
> >
> > << http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/135/3/273 >>
> >
> > << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1883016&dopt=Citation >>
> >
> > << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1609897&dopt=Citation >>
> >
> > << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9930640&dopt=Citation >>
> >
> > << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7484306&dopt=Citation >>
> >
> > << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=963135&dopt=Citation >>
> >
> > << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2211541&dopt=Citation >>
> >
> > << http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=6057356&dopt=citation >>
>
> I'm sure your right. Parnate has an amphetamine like effect on some people, and people abuse amphetamines all the time, so why not Parnate. As I'm sure most people here are aware that many if not most psychiatric drugs can be abused. All of the Benzos, the non benzo hypnotics, barbituates, pschostimulants, cognitive enhancers, and even Antiparkinsonian drugs. Also anti-convulsants...I know 2 people right now who are taking an absurd amount of Topomax to try to lose weight. And of course the Opiates. I'm sure I'm missing A LOT of drugs from this list. My opinion is if you abuse any of these meds they're obviously not going to work long term. But people will be people, and abuse will occur.
>
> TylerAgreed 100%. Many meds carry the danger of abuse. However, Parnate (and perhaps Nardil, to a lesser degree) have been singled out as the only antidepressants (besides amantadine) that can be abused.
In my opinion, this requires some consideration. As I said, I am very pro-MAOIs. However, I am NOT pro-drug abuse (though I've done it myself many, many times). And taking a drug to feel "better than well" - whether it's a benzo, a psychostimulant, or a MAOI - is drug abuse, plain and simple.
For a while, my cocktail consisted of Parnate and Ambien (which I also abused). It made me wonder, in terms of my psychological health, if anything had really changed from the times I snorted cocaine in the mornings and shot heroin at night. Clearly, I am not likening the physical attributes of illegal drugs like coke and smack to Parnate and Ambien - but psychologically? I was still getting high. I was still trying to feel "better than well."
Linkadge has brought up an AMAZINGLY important issue here. A few years ago, I would have been so threatened that someone was questioning my psychiatric drugs that I would have reacted immaturely and immediately denied misuse of psychiatric drugs. However, from years of experience working within the field (not to mention, being medicated myself), I think he has brought up points that we all need to address honestly within ourselves. I have often wondered, while reading this page: Is this why we switch meds so often? Because "normal" just isn't good enough anymore?
Posted by Tony P on March 30, 2006, at 2:00:43
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania?, posted by tygereyes on March 29, 2006, at 22:15:02
> Linkadge has brought up an AMAZINGLY important issue here. A few years ago, I would have been so threatened that someone was questioning my psychiatric drugs that I would have reacted immaturely and immediately denied misuse of psychiatric drugs. However, from years of experience working within the field (not to mention, being medicated myself), I think he has brought up points that we all need to address honestly within ourselves. I have often wondered, while reading this page: Is this why we switch meds so often? Because "normal" just isn't good enough anymore?
For sure there are times when I want to feel better than well, and of course I want it _right_ now, and please let it go on for ever. And I've abused antidepressants and looked for something better than normal from them. And yet, and yet -- I think we're not allowing enough for the fact that for most of us posting here "been down so long, feels like up to me" is part of our baseline "normality".
Last year, living in a supportive community and taking only Lamotrigine, I had a profound emotional (even spiritual) experience one evening. In journalling about it that night, I couldn't easily put the feeling into words. It wasn't until the next day that I remembered there _is_ a word for that experience: joy. It had been so long since I had experienced joy that I had all but forgotten the word for it. I think after a long bout of depression or anhedonia, experiencing the ordinary sense of well-being and connectedness that many people have on an almost daily basis, _feels_ like a peak experience or euphoria or even hypomania.
I was in that good zone once for a few years, and it seems to me the characteristics were: I didn't feel a need to touch it up or make it even better, I was able to feel normal ups and downs and still have the sense that life was worth living, and (always useful to get a cross-bearing from trusted others) nobody was telling me "you should cut back on your Serzone, it's making you too happy"!
Tony
Posted by SLS on March 30, 2006, at 6:43:57
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania?, posted by tygereyes on March 29, 2006, at 19:02:57
> People REALLY need to stop getting offended when their drugs come "under fire" on this board.
Why?
- Scott
Posted by TylerJ on March 30, 2006, at 7:23:02
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania?, posted by tygereyes on March 29, 2006, at 22:15:02
> I have often wondered, while reading this page: Is this why we switch meds so often? Because "normal" just isn't good enough anymore?
I've definitely wondered about this myself. It's not normal to feel great all the time. I'm doing very well on Parnate, but it doesn't make me high, and I certainly don't feel "wonderful" all the time. I'm most definitely not depressed or anxious anymore, but I'm not ecstatic either. I think a lot of people's perception of what is "normal" is incorrect. Normal people have challenges..good times as well as bad. For me bad used to be miserable, in bed all day long, anxious, anti-social and sometimes suicidal. Now, with the help of Parnate, I don't experience these kinds of lows anymore...but I still argue with my wife, get pissed off, get frustrated, etc. these things I think are quite normal. It's finally nice to be alive. :)Tyler
Posted by SLS on March 30, 2006, at 7:50:41
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania? » tygereyes, posted by TylerJ on March 30, 2006, at 7:23:02
> > I have often wondered, while reading this page: Is this why we switch meds so often? Because "normal" just isn't good enough anymore?
I think some people do indeed expect drugs to take away all of life's problems without doing the work necessary to deal with them. They expect not to become depressed as a reaction to a situation. I am not sure that this represents the majority, though.
People forget what it is like to be normal sometimes.
People are often left with some residual biological depression despite treatment. How do you tell the difference between residual biological depression and a depressive reaction to a situation? This is probably difficult for many people because they haven't felt well in years.
I think psychotherapy can be a good tool to work through the issues left in the wake of a biological depression. There are often issues that existed prior to this depression, and might even have precipitated it. These things really should be addressed so as to remove the psychosocial stresses that might trigger a relapse.
> I'm doing very well on Parnate, but it doesn't make me high, and I certainly don't feel "wonderful" all the time. I'm most definitely not depressed or anxious anymore, but I'm not ecstatic either. I think a lot of people's perception of what is "normal" is incorrect. Normal people have challenges..good times as well as bad. For me bad used to be miserable, in bed all day long, anxious, anti-social and sometimes suicidal. Now, with the help of Parnate, I don't experience these kinds of lows anymore...but I still argue with my wife, get pissed off, get frustrated, etc. these things I think are quite normal. It's finally nice to be alive. :)Amen.
Isn't there a difference in the way the two types of depression "feel"?
When a Parnate + desipramine combination brought me to remission, I did experience depression as a reaction to situations. However, it felt completely different from the biological depression that I had suffered before. It was a pleasure to be able to deal with very real issues and work through the situational depression in the absence of the biological depression.
- Scott
Posted by TylerJ on March 30, 2006, at 8:47:19
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » TylerJ, posted by linkadge on March 29, 2006, at 10:53:01
> For starter, I wasn't referring to you at all, I was really referring to the general danger of trying to achieve hypmania.
>
>
> >Or, do I prefer feeling relaxed, happy, more >energetic, enjoying my children and being a >better Daddy for them, and not being Suicidal at >all!! Yea, I think I'll take the latter even if >I had to eat rocks every day to keep >feeling "well".
>
> I just want people to stay well for as long as possible.
>
>
> >Hey Linkadge, I'm sorry that you are so >miserable in your own skin that you can't be >happy that someone else who has suffered for 20 >plus years is finally feeling good.
>
> I really don't know what you're getting at. I'm glad that you're feeling good.
>
> >I know it could all change for me tomorrow ( >even though i doubt it ) but I'm going to enjoy >what I have today.
>
> All the best to you.
>
>
> >P.S. Call it hypomania if you want, I really >don't give a f*ck!
>
> You know yourself better than I.
>
> Linkadge
>Sorry..yesterday was not a great day for me. I was overly sensitive and wrongly thought you were attacking me personally...Thank you for taking the time to tell me that you weren't refering to me. Take care.
Tyler
Posted by linkadge on March 30, 2006, at 10:20:04
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania? » tygereyes, posted by TylerJ on March 30, 2006, at 7:23:02
Just wanted to reiterate that this post was *not* directed at you.
The idea really came up when I was discussing with friends how it seemed that some people are using regular psychiatric drugs to try and change themselves into something different. You know "designer personalities" or whatever. I didn't really coin the idea.
Its a bit like pandora's box. You take a pill, and it does something, it changes something, and that starts you wondering, what if this, what if that. What would this be like, what would that be like. I wonder if a pill could change this, I wonder if a pill could rid me of that, and before I know it, all of the things that one might have tackled with a church visit in the past, have been absorbed into the rhelm of psychiatry.(maybe I have too much PEA on the brain from all the cocoa powder I am consuming) :)
If there is a reader to whom this doesn't apply one bit, then I appologise.Again, its just something I've been thinking about, and wondering if anyone else has considered such things before.
Again, maybe I'm way out to lunch.
Linkadge
Posted by Caedmon on March 30, 2006, at 22:43:50
In reply to Aiming for hypomania ?, posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 16:02:01
>Aiming for hypomania isn't really a good thing. Oh sure, some of us think we can trick the brain...
>There just seems to be this hidden conscencious that taking an MAOI will give keep you in some permanant euphoric state, but its not true, and I don't think that promoting it is a safe measure
Hi linkadge. I appreciate many of your posts. This one did seem to implicate people on this board, as well as people taking MAOIs, as having a "hidden conscencious" to become euphoric. I think that's just because it's in the passive voice.
Thanks for clearing up the statement later on.
Re: hypomania, I have no doubt that there is a strong human tendency to want to feel good. (I know that's kind of a "no-duh" statement.) I think wanting to feel good is a healthy thing in most people. That's why we do things like get massages or have sex or watch good movies.
>I think if you aim to feel normal that you people might have a better chance at achieving long term mental health.
What is normal?
- C
Posted by JaclinHyde on April 1, 2006, at 22:30:23
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania?, posted by tygereyes on March 29, 2006, at 19:02:57
I read your links, now here are some of mine..
" Are the MAOIs addictive ?
MAOIs are not addictive, but if you have taken them for eight weeks or more you may experience some mild "discontinuation" effects if you stop them suddenly. These do not mean that the antidepressant is addictive. For a drug to be addictive or produce dependence, then it must have a number of characteristics:
should produce craving for the drug when the last dose "wears off"
should produce tolerance ie you need more drug to get the same effect
there should be an inability to cut down or control use
should produce withdrawal symptoms
there should be continued use of the drug despite knowing of harmful consequencesThus antidepressants, if stopped suddenly, may produce some "discontinuation" symptoms but these are more of an "adjustment" reaction from sudden removal of a drug rather than withdrawal."
_____________________________________________Nardil (phenelzine)
Parnate (tranylcypromine)Amongst the older antidepressants; non-addictive, but less popular because of their side effects, and the food restrictions that must be observed while taking them.
_______________________________________________http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/mentalhealth/205160.html
"Alternative non-addictive antidepressant medication is the tricyclic group and the monoamine oxidase inhibitor group (MAOIs)."
____________________________________________Are they addictive?
No. It is possible for MAOIs to produce unpleasant withdrawal symptoms (sometimes called a discontinuation syndrome) when they are stopped. But this is temporary, does not involve a craving for the medication, and can usually be avoided if the drug is tapered off rather than stopped suddenly.
This is not addiction. Withdrawal symptoms may include nausea, insomnia, sleepiness, vivid dreams, agitation and irritability.
These can sometimes occur if you miss a dose of the antidepressant, which is why it is important to take them as directed by your doctor.
When stopping treatment withdrawal symptoms can be minimised or avoided if the dose of the MAOI is gradually decreased over a period of a few weeks. Your doctor will help you do this.
__________________________________________________http://www.tripdatabase.com/spider.html?itemid=269841
Mono-amine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs)
As well as treating low mood and depression, MAOIs are used to treat symptoms of anxiety
and a number of other symptoms.Drugs available
Brand name
Drugs available
Brand name
Isocarboxaid
Marplan
Tranylcypromine
Parnate
Phenelzine
Nardil
Moclobemide
ManerixYou may have to take MAOIs for 6 months to 5 years depending on the number of
depressive episodes you have had. MAOIs are not addictive."
__________________________________________________I guess like everything else it all depends on the individual.
JH
Posted by tygereyes on April 2, 2006, at 4:48:50
In reply to Re: Who's trying to achieve hypomania?tygereyes, posted by JaclinHyde on April 1, 2006, at 22:30:23
I can tell you what I've experienced.
I can also tell you, as someone in research, those net links don't fly. If it isn't published in a journal and peer-reviewed, then it cannot be considered as valid as articles on the subject that HAVE been published in medical journals.
> I read your links, now here are some of mine..
>
> http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:9qIBKcmzi2cJ:www.nmhct.nhs.uk/pharmacy/depr5.htm+maois+non+addictive&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&client=opera
>
> " Are the MAOIs addictive ?
>
> MAOIs are not addictive, but if you have taken them for eight weeks or more you may experience some mild "discontinuation" effects if you stop them suddenly. These do not mean that the antidepressant is addictive. For a drug to be addictive or produce dependence, then it must have a number of characteristics:
> should produce craving for the drug when the last dose "wears off"
> should produce tolerance ie you need more drug to get the same effect
> there should be an inability to cut down or control use
> should produce withdrawal symptoms
> there should be continued use of the drug despite knowing of harmful consequences
>
> Thus antidepressants, if stopped suddenly, may produce some "discontinuation" symptoms but these are more of an "adjustment" reaction from sudden removal of a drug rather than withdrawal."
> _____________________________________________
>
> http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:n5MDD0GC3LcJ:www.depressionet.com.au/treatments/medicns/maoi.html+maois+non+addictive&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&client=opera
>
> Nardil (phenelzine)
> Parnate (tranylcypromine)
>
> Amongst the older antidepressants; non-addictive, but less popular because of their side effects, and the food restrictions that must be observed while taking them.
> _______________________________________________
>
> http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/mentalhealth/205160.html
>
> "Alternative non-addictive antidepressant medication is the tricyclic group and the monoamine oxidase inhibitor group (MAOIs)."
> ____________________________________________
>
> http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:MCxcOUtEfvwJ:www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/depression/monoamineoxidaseinhibitors_000101.htm+maois+non+addictive&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=17&client=opera
>
> Are they addictive?
>
> No. It is possible for MAOIs to produce unpleasant withdrawal symptoms (sometimes called a discontinuation syndrome) when they are stopped. But this is temporary, does not involve a craving for the medication, and can usually be avoided if the drug is tapered off rather than stopped suddenly.
>
> This is not addiction. Withdrawal symptoms may include nausea, insomnia, sleepiness, vivid dreams, agitation and irritability.
>
> These can sometimes occur if you miss a dose of the antidepressant, which is why it is important to take them as directed by your doctor.
>
> When stopping treatment withdrawal symptoms can be minimised or avoided if the dose of the MAOI is gradually decreased over a period of a few weeks. Your doctor will help you do this.
> __________________________________________________
>
> http://www.tripdatabase.com/spider.html?itemid=269841
>
> Mono-amine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs)
>
> As well as treating low mood and depression, MAOIs are used to treat symptoms of anxiety
> and a number of other symptoms.
>
> Drugs available
> Brand name
> Drugs available
> Brand name
> Isocarboxaid
> Marplan
> Tranylcypromine
> Parnate
> Phenelzine
> Nardil
> Moclobemide
> Manerix
>
> You may have to take MAOIs for 6 months to 5 years depending on the number of
> depressive episodes you have had. MAOIs are not addictive."
> __________________________________________________
>
> I guess like everything else it all depends on the individual.
>
> JH
>
>
>
Posted by scatterbrained on April 4, 2006, at 21:39:57
In reply to Re: Aiming for hypomania ? » scatterbrained, posted by linkadge on March 29, 2006, at 9:43:07
Anybody can abuse anything that doesn't mean that parnate doesn't serve a purpose in the treatment of refractory depression. The people that abuse parnate, if there are such people, are not taking it for depression they are taking it to feel high. people with depression take it to feel normal.there is a difference and i think you are capable of understanding what I'm saying.
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