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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tomatheus on January 8, 2006, at 12:19:34
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by flmm on January 8, 2006, at 11:37:20
> We all know that everyone is different, and your defensive stance is really not the reaction I was after!
I think everybody here also understands that antidepressants aren't supposed to make people "high." But for individuals who switch into hypomanic states or go through cycles of hypomania and depression, a "high" is sometimes the unintended consequence of treatment. Patients like myself who experience treatment-induced hypomanic episodes know as well as anybody else that antidepressants are just supposed to relieve depression and not cause one to feel "high," and I find it frustrating when others imply that we don't understand this.
Tomatheus
Posted by linkadge on January 8, 2006, at 13:04:34
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by Tomatheus on January 8, 2006, at 12:19:34
Thats what they're intended to do, but unfortunately they don't always work that way.
Recalling that the MAOI drugs were actually discovered based on their propensity to make normal, nondepressed people feel better than well.
I'm not saying that everybody goes "manic" on these drugs, but I am saying that they are powerfull, and that they can influence many aspects of contiousness.
I recall feeling slighly better than well on certain antidepressants. I had no symptoms of mania, but I just felt better than well.
That fact influcence many aspects of my life, and influenced many decisions I made about treatment.
That is why, in many ways I would consider them addictive. My behavior resembled that of a junkie in many ways.
Linkadge
Posted by blueberry on January 8, 2006, at 13:43:11
In reply to Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by flmm on January 7, 2006, at 11:36:11
I've tried dozens of antidepressants and never had a euphoric high. Sounds nice though.
I'm guilty. I switch meds a lot. But only when they don't work after 6 weeks, or if there are intolerable side effects that I can't get through, or if the med does the opposite of what it is supposed to do and makes me feel much more depressed instead.
I've been through 3 different meds in the last 5 months. Not sure if that's what you would call constant drug changes. But if they don't show any benefit at 6 weeks in clinical trials, it is considered a failure, so I move on.
I do know that the constant med changes come to a screaching halt when you finally land on the right meds. I was on a constant stable dose of prozac and zyprexa for 5 full years with not even a thought of trying another med, simply because finally I had found the right ones. Those 5 wonderful years never would have happened if I had given in and settled for mediocre results on other meds that didn't quite do the job.
Posted by Declan on January 8, 2006, at 14:10:13
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by linkadge on January 8, 2006, at 13:04:34
Hi Link
Just out of interest, which ADs did you feel slightly better than well on?
Declan
Posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2006, at 15:24:05
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by Declan on January 8, 2006, at 14:10:13
I knew you'd ask that Deccie ;-)
Ed
Posted by linkadge on January 8, 2006, at 16:15:49
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by linkadge on January 8, 2006, at 13:04:34
I think it might have been a zoloft, clomipramine combination.
I suppose this was triple uptake inhibiton to a certain extent.
It gave me a sence of controll, when I could make myself feel better by taking a pill. There were things that I didn't want to deal with. I could forget about them for a little longer by obsessing about drugs.
But I stopped eventually, because I found myself actually focusing more on drugs and less on how to actually solve my real world problems.
I wasn't manic, not even really hypomanic. But when I changed drugs all the time it gave me a sence that things were "happening" in my life.
Tomorrow is going to be better, because tomorrow I try drug x.
Linkadge
Posted by vbAgent on January 8, 2006, at 16:42:24
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by linkadge on January 8, 2006, at 16:15:49
Since I like quoting, here's something from Joseph Addison: "The three great requirements for a happy life are: something to do, something to love, and something to hope for."
Let us not change drugs because it's something to do and something to hope for. This is a misguided attempt to find happiness.
Linkadge, you have a lot of insight and common sense. Don't discount or forget about the power of your mind.
Posted by linkadge on January 8, 2006, at 18:13:38
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression - link, posted by vbAgent on January 8, 2006, at 16:42:24
Thanks, thats a good quote.
I come her now because I had spent so much time here (when I was on meds), that I've made friends.
Boards like this can be a double edged sword. It was great that I felt support, but sometimes I got the wrong ideas about things.
Linkadge
Posted by vbAgent on January 8, 2006, at 19:40:25
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression - link, posted by linkadge on January 8, 2006, at 18:13:38
> Thanks, thats a good quote.
>
> I come her now because I had spent so much time here (when I was on meds), that I've made friends.
Yep, many years ago I contributed under the nick *Cressida*...and although I still add my two cents now and then, I haven't made any friends here.
> Boards like this can be a double edged sword. It was great that I felt support, but sometimes I got the wrong ideas about things.Quite true and excellent observation btw. Relying on others is sometimes a risky business. I consider the source before taking advice seriously. Are they speaking from experience? A position of authority? - If so, what are their qualifications? So, I consider a checklist of requirements. If any are unmet, I take their advice with a grain of salt or just discard it altogether.
This reply may not belong on this board...Oh well.
Posted by fires on January 8, 2006, at 20:51:04
In reply to Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by flmm on January 7, 2006, at 11:36:11
My ideas as to why some are constantly changing ADs:
1) They have underlying medical conditions which cause or exacerbate depression, and don't respond to ADs.
2) Some here are mildly depressed and have the luxury of shopping for the best AD for them. This group doesn't seem to have severe anhedonia. The severely depressed don't generally show up here, especially if they experience anhedonia. Typing something on a computer is far beyond their capabilities. The severely depressed are so afraid of sudden and unpredictable "relapses", that they are willing to settle for any AD that keeps them out of a living h*ll.
3) A few here are putting us all on -- they don't have depression or any other brain disorder(s).
Posted by vbAgent on January 8, 2006, at 21:39:26
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression » flmm, posted by fires on January 8, 2006, at 20:51:04
> My ideas as to why some are constantly changing ADs:
>
> 1) They have underlying medical conditions which cause or exacerbate depression, and don't respond to ADs.
>
> 2) Some here are mildly depressed and have the luxury of shopping for the best AD for them. This group doesn't seem to have severe anhedonia. The severely depressed don't generally show up here, especially if they experience anhedonia. Typing something on a computer is far beyond their capabilities. The severely depressed are so afraid of sudden and unpredictable "relapses", that they are willing to settle for any AD that keeps them out of a living h*ll.
>
>
> 3) A few here are putting us all on -- they don't have depression or any other brain disorder(s).
Remain mindful that this is a forum, a place for open discussion. It is not my job or someone else's to judge who might be a wolf in sheep's clothing. fires, the 3rd idea is a red herring because it diverts attention away from the point and doesn't explain why people constantly change ADs. Otherwise, a top quality post. Do you think that a lot of people fake mental illness? Like malingering or drug-seeking? Sorry fires, don't take this personally or the wrong way. I am bored, full of coffee, and just very opinionated in a defensive way at times.
Posted by fires on January 8, 2006, at 22:54:09
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression » fires, posted by vbAgent on January 8, 2006, at 21:39:26
> > My ideas as to why some are constantly changing ADs:
> >
> > 1) They have underlying medical conditions which cause or exacerbate depression, and don't respond to ADs.
> >
> > 2) Some here are mildly depressed and have the luxury of shopping for the best AD for them. This group doesn't seem to have severe anhedonia. The severely depressed don't generally show up here, especially if they experience anhedonia. Typing something on a computer is far beyond their capabilities. The severely depressed are so afraid of sudden and unpredictable "relapses", that they are willing to settle for any AD that keeps them out of a living h*ll.
> >
> >
> > 3) A few here are putting us all on -- they don't have depression or any other brain disorder(s).
>
>
> Remain mindful that this is a forum, a place for open discussion. It is not my job or someone else's to judge who might be a wolf in sheep's clothing. fires, the 3rd idea is a red herring because it diverts attention away from the point and doesn't explain why people constantly change ADs.
> Otherwise, a top quality post.Thanks
>> Do you think that a lot of people fake mental illness? Like malingering or drug-seeking? Sorry fires, don't take this personally or the wrong way. I am bored, full of coffee, and just very opinionated in a defensive way at times.I don't understand what makes you think that I believe a lot of people fake mental illness. The folks that are probably phonies here, are just that, not necessarily mentally ill. (I believe that nearly all web forums have some phonies, therefore this site probably does also).
I should have omitted number 3. Consider it done. As some younger folks say, my bad.
Posted by theo on January 8, 2006, at 23:00:22
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by linkadge on January 8, 2006, at 16:15:49
But when I changed drugs all the time it gave me a sence that things were "happening" in my life.
> Tomorrow is going to be better, because tomorrow I try drug x.
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
I couldn't have said it better. Isn't it amazing how one can feel a lift simply knowing they are trying a new med! I wish I could harness that feeling. Is this addictive behavior at it's best or what!
Posted by vbAgent on January 8, 2006, at 23:06:28
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression » vbAgent, posted by fires on January 8, 2006, at 22:54:09
>> "I don't understand what makes you think that I believe a lot of people fake mental illness. The folks that are probably phonies here, are just that, not necessarily mentally ill. (I believe that nearly all web forums have some phonies, therefore this site probably does also)."
Based on #3, I thought you might want to add something.
Take care...
Posted by ghostshadow on January 9, 2006, at 0:30:11
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression » flmm, posted by Tomatheus on January 7, 2006, at 22:30:57
i thought this was a serious post and was going to be helpful. i'm not looking for a "high", nor do i get one from changing meds (which i have had to start doing lately). i'm just looking for something that lets me live in my own skull in peace.
Posted by James K on January 9, 2006, at 8:26:56
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by ghostshadow on January 9, 2006, at 0:30:11
> i thought this was a serious post and was going to be helpful. i'm not looking for a "high", nor do i get one from changing meds (which i have had to start doing lately). i'm just looking for something that lets me live in my own skull in peace.
--- I agree. I've never experienced euphoria from a psych med. I've experienced euphoria from sex, rollercoasters, crack, alcohol, lsd, whippets, pain, violence, and lots of other things that may not be good for me, but never from a psych med.
I have to try new ones because I end up in locked hospitals and I'd like to not go there in the future. I unfortunately don't suffer from adheniae or whatever some people think I should suffer from. I'm able to move, I just move in the wrong direction.
I should be getting ready to go to my out-patient group right now. I should have taken my pills already.
thank you,
James K
Posted by ghostshadow on January 9, 2006, at 11:12:08
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression » ghostshadow, posted by James K on January 9, 2006, at 8:26:56
> > i thought this was a serious post and was going to be helpful. i'm not looking for a "high", nor do i get one from changing meds (which i have had to start doing lately). i'm just looking for something that lets me live in my own skull in peace.
>
> --- I agree. I've never experienced euphoria from a psych med. I've experienced euphoria from sex, rollercoasters, crack, alcohol, lsd, whippets, pain, violence, and lots of other things that may not be good for me, but never from a psych med.
>
> I have to try new ones because I end up in locked hospitals and I'd like to not go there in the future. I unfortunately don't suffer from adheniae or whatever some people think I should suffer from. I'm able to move, I just move in the wrong direction.euphoria? i would like just to be able to laugh. never got into drugs or alcohol, but that was just because i lived in real small towns and times were different then. luck more than anything, i guess. i wish you luck. and peace.
Posted by flmm on January 9, 2006, at 20:22:45
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression » James K, posted by ghostshadow on January 9, 2006, at 11:12:08
Just a question! Sorry for freaking everyone out!
Posted by James K on January 9, 2006, at 23:51:01
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression OOPS, posted by flmm on January 9, 2006, at 20:22:45
> Just a question! Sorry for freaking everyone out!
---My apologies, I had a really bad morning. I understand what you were talking about, it just rubbed me the wrong way.
I'm in a learning process to think of the other people before I fire off a post. The more I feel sheepish about checking back on a thread, the more I realize I might have been overreacting.
thanks for (i hope) understanding,
James K
Posted by Tomatheus on January 10, 2006, at 18:02:20
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression OOPS » flmm, posted by James K on January 9, 2006, at 23:51:01
> I'm in a learning process to think of the other people before I fire off a post. The more I feel sheepish about checking back on a thread, the more I realize I might have been overreacting.
I hear you. I do think that I overreacted in my first post on this thread as well. I tend to do that too often when Babblers just make general points about things. I apologize to all and will be more considerate and make fewer assumptions in my replies to posts making general statements.
Tomatheus
Posted by ghostshadow on January 11, 2006, at 0:52:25
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression OOPS, posted by Tomatheus on January 10, 2006, at 18:02:20
flmm, sorry, but i'm not going to apologize. maybe there are a few who ARE chasing a dream, but i think most of us are just doing what you said in you first sentence - battling depression. i was on the same med for almost ten years before i had to change, but now i'm having problems finding one that lets me act human/civil toward others without feeling like life isn't worth living. i have a child whom i love very much but it's been hard for me to show it. either been too far down or too ticked-off about every little thing. don't want to be that way with him...
Posted by flmm on January 11, 2006, at 21:27:50
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression OOPS, posted by ghostshadow on January 11, 2006, at 0:52:25
Ghost, I think you just did! {Apologize}
Posted by linkadge on January 12, 2006, at 8:20:43
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression » linkadge, posted by theo on January 8, 2006, at 23:00:22
It certainly is addictive.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on January 12, 2006, at 8:23:35
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression, posted by ghostshadow on January 9, 2006, at 0:30:11
It's not that I am looking for a high with changing meds. It's more that I'm looking for hope. A new med is a new hope.
Linkadge
Posted by ghostshadow on January 12, 2006, at 11:37:10
In reply to Re: Constant drug changes? and Depression » ghostshadow, posted by linkadge on January 12, 2006, at 8:23:35
> It's not that I am looking for a high with changing meds. It's more that I'm looking for hope. A new med is a new hope.
>
>
> LinkadgePandora closed the lid on hope...
This is the end of the thread.
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