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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Camille Dumont on October 18, 2005, at 7:20:55
Guess the doctor proved me wrong. He said the depression would come back if I stopped the meds, that I needed them for life and well, it did come back.
I toughed a little over a year without the effexor and six months or so meds free without even the celexa.
But it came back, I felt the dark thoughts, the destructive mind patterns come back, so here I am, back on my way to the theraputic dosage I was taking.
It feels so strange. On the one hand, I think I'm happy that I got half a year of being completely me of really feeling everything to their full intensity, but on the other hand, the numbness that comes with the meds is somehow comforting.
I'm rarely hungry, I don't feel muscle aches, I don't feel sad, I don't feel upset, I just don't really feel much. It's like a fog between my brain and my body.
And I ask myself which one is better. The real yet potentially destructive and potentially very happy me or the drugged up me who is more safe and productive and constant. I wish I could choose something in between but it seems that I have to pick one of two opposites.
Sorry if I'm rambling, I just needed to write it down, somehow.
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 18, 2005, at 7:20:55
In reply to It was fun while it lasted, posted by Camille Dumont on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:35
I'm so sorry that happened to you, but I know exactly what you are talking about. There is a sort of "loss of self" that comes with taking SSRI's or SNRI's. I think psychopharmacologists are starting to be more aware that having so much serotonin floating around causes one's brain to lose dopaminergic neurons, so we lose joy, excitement, sexual desire, etc. at the same time that we are controlling the severity of the depression. Can you add a medication which might help with dopamine, like Wellbutrin, and maybe keep the Effexor at a very low dose? An additional thought: psychiatrists are now recommending that people with depression take Cytomel in tiny divided doses, so that their TSH levels are at about 0.5. This is really safe, and sided-effect free, and can really help with depression. The only difficulty is that you could develop osteoporosis from this if you take it for a number of years, and so should get occasional bone scans, take a lot of Calcium and Vitamin D, and, if any bone loss occurs, take Fosamax or Actonel.
SSRI's work pretty well for me, but do make me very apathetic- I don't feel like my real self at all. I won't take them any more because of that. Wellbutrin, Cytomel, tianeptine and rTMS have turned out to be much more effective- and therapy, too, of course!
Posted by Camille Dumont on October 18, 2005, at 7:24:09
In reply to Re: It was fun while it lasted, posted by Pfinstegg on October 18, 2005, at 0:40:32
Thanks for the advice. I'm kind of worried about other ADs because of the weight gain potential. At least with Effexor I don't gain. I don't have a weight problem but I don't want to end up with one.
Unfortunately, last time it took a rather high dose of Effexor to do anything, 300mg I think. In a way it's scary to think about that given that right now I'm a less then 1/8th of that dose and everything feels surreal and faded. I guess in time my mind will adjust but it's still rather ironically, depressing.
Posted by fairywings on October 18, 2005, at 9:25:46
In reply to It was fun while it lasted, posted by Camille Dumont on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:35
I'm so sorry Camille, sounds like you're really struggling with your feelings about all of this, but I'm glad you're not having the dark thoughts any more, I know how awful those feel. I hope you can stay at a pretty low dose of Effexor. If weight gain is a concern, have you ever tried Wellbutrin? I hope the fog lifts for you, so you can feel more alive.
fw
Posted by Bill LL on October 18, 2005, at 13:22:46
In reply to It was fun while it lasted, posted by Camille Dumont on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:35
I wonder if adding a stimulant such as Adderal or Provigil to the Effexor might help, particularly with the mental fog.
Posted by Racer on October 18, 2005, at 13:36:45
In reply to It was fun while it lasted, posted by Camille Dumont on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:35
I took Effexor for a number of years, with a low dose of Prozac to augment it. During that time, I mostly felt about half awake, and it wasn't overwhelmingly effective on my depression, either.
Now I'm taking Cymbalta, along with Wellbutrin, and it not only works better on my depression, it does so without the mental fog that Effexor caused. Even taking Cymbalta alone was better in both respects than Effexor with or without the Prozac, for me, and it might be worth your while just to talk to your doctor about trying Cymbalta instead of Effexor.
Just a thought, and cheap at half the price. I hope it helps.
Posted by blueberry on October 18, 2005, at 18:35:58
In reply to For what it's worth.... » Camille Dumont, posted by Racer on October 18, 2005, at 13:36:45
I agree with Racer. You already know what effexor feels like. You should give cymbalta a try.
The ratio of serotonin to norepinephrine for effexor is 30 to 1. With cymbalta, the ratio is 9 to 1. It is much stronger on the norepinephrine side of things, so it has more potential for motivational boost, activity, and less emotional dulling. Of course, we all respond differently. But when Racer suggested cymbalta, I just had to say I thought that was a good idea.
Posted by Phillipa on October 18, 2005, at 20:05:32
In reply to Re: For what it's worth...., posted by blueberry on October 18, 2005, at 18:35:58
When I went on cymbalta last year. It was my first time I found pbabble. And unfortunately I followed Scott's nonresponse and figured it just didn't work. Especially since none had worked for me in the past. I was on 30mg for a month then up to 60mg for another month. Then I started weaning down like other posters here. Do you think I gave it a fair chance? No side effects at either dose. But when I went off of it I realized all my backpain had disappeared. And the other thing I was beginning to notice was that I was waking up earlier. Seeing my pdoc tomorrow before we move for the last time. Should I try it again? If anyone is posting tonight please answer me as this computer will be being serviced tomorrow. Thanks guys. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Racer on October 18, 2005, at 22:35:20
In reply to Re: For what it's worth...., posted by Phillipa on October 18, 2005, at 20:05:32
If you didn't have any side effects from it, and it helped your pain, it might be worth giving it another try. You probably don't have to go so slow on titrating up, and you can go beyond 60mg, even though that seems to be a magic number with Cymbalta.
Also, have you considered trying to augment Cymbalta? Might be better than skipping around trying to find something that works without the sorts of side effects you've been having? In my case, I tend to need very high doses to respond, and that means more side effects. Combining drugs helps keep the doses lower, thus lowering side effects.
Good luck, both with the meds and with your move.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on October 19, 2005, at 0:59:22
In reply to Re: For what it's worth.... » Phillipa, posted by Racer on October 18, 2005, at 22:35:20
camille:
you should be very proud of the progress you made. perhaps in the future, if you continue taking meds and going to therapy (working on thought patterns), you will be off meds forever.
that is my goal, however i have finally accepted that if i have to take meds forever, then i do. God gave docs the knowledge to make the meds to help ppl.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on October 20, 2005, at 7:08:53
In reply to It was fun while it lasted, posted by Camille Dumont on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:35
Hi Camille,
Were you relying solely on meds to help your depression?
Posted by Camille Dumont on October 20, 2005, at 7:08:53
In reply to Re: It was fun while it lasted, posted by Miss Honeychurch on October 18, 2005, at 9:56:35
I did go to therapy for almost two years. It did help in validating the anger I was feeling and help me gain some confidence ... at least to allow myself to be angry rather than feeling like it was me who was somehow flawed / had done something wrong. But at some point I saw a new p-doc to do some projective tests and took a "break" from my usual p-doc while this was happening and well, when it was over I just didn't feel like going back.
I never felt any attachment to my p-doc ... but then again, I'm diagnosed as schizoid pd so it's probably just the way I am and not her doing something wrong.
When I stopped going I really didn't miss it. I didn't feel any need to talk to her. I mean most of the time it was me telling her what was happening in my life, her validating my feelings, or questionning them if they were unreasonable or irrational and asking me questions about how I felt and so on.
It's not really surprising. I don't miss people or attach much. I guess it's what schizoid defense mechanisms really are. Never attaching, never feeling and therefore never running the risk of being hurt. And when the defense mechanisms fail (as they inevitably do), depression and dissociation sets in.
I've been thinking about going back, but it wouldn't be to change per say. I really doubt you can "cure" spd. My hope would be to find a reason to live. I mean I don't want to die but I also don't see why I should live. However I'm afraid even the best p-doc wouldn't be able to help with that.
> Hi Camille,
>
> Were you relying solely on meds to help your depression?
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