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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MoparFan91 on August 18, 2005, at 6:47:31
Since making some changes to my treatment regimen several weeks ago, I've been noticing some weight gain. I have gained about 5 lbs in the last couple weeks or so. The gain has been worse in the last week than the other weeks before it.
Here's the changes to my medication regimen:
Lamictal - Increased to 300mg 2.5 weeks ago from 200mg
Luvox - 50mg added about a month ago; was increased to 100mg couple weeks ago; went back down to 50mg/day yesterday due to worsening cycling
Abilify - 2.5mg/day added about a month ago (same time as Luvox); increased to 5mg/day five days ago.What I'm noticing is a major increase in appetite. Even after eating >4,000 Kcal a day, I still have that hungry ravenous feeling. I also have a lot of carb cravings as well. It's like my appetite regulating center is suddenly cr*pping out. Could low serotonin levels be the problem? I have so many other symptoms of this.
I'm gaining weight even when feeling hungry as a cave bear in the morning (the same feeling I have when I'm in dieting mode). My body fat percentage is also rising a bit too. I have no idea which drug (or supplement) is causing this weight gain. I seemed to notice an even bigger increase in appetite in just the last week. For the last week or so, I've been averaging 4000-5000 kcal/day and still feeling a bit hungry.
The supplements being taken last few weeks include:
Taurine 6g
Fish Oil 15g
TMG 2g (not taken everyday)
Zinc 150mg
Manganese 10mg
Magnesium (as Glycinate) 900mg
P5P 200mg
Vitamin B12 (Methyl) 6000mcg
Vitamin D 4000IU
Tyrosine 1000mg
DHEA 25mg
Kelp 2 Tablets
Chromium Picolinate 1,500mcg
Niacinamide 3gAnyone have any idea which of the medications (or supplements) could be causing the big appetite increase which is leading to the weight gain?
Which of the drugs am I taking could be the biggest offender for weight gain?
Posted by bart on August 18, 2005, at 20:27:06
In reply to Weight gain from regimen changes, posted by MoparFan91 on August 18, 2005, at 6:47:31
I know SSRI's, especially a sedating one like Luvox are becoming more and more notorious for this weight gain issue. I've heard everything from cr*pping out of serotonin system to effects on insulin and glucose levels to thyroid effects.
is Abilify an atypical antipsychotic that is sedating? if it is, I know any of those meds made me eat too much because it sedated me an blocked a lot of dopamine action with excessive antihistamine actions
Posted by MoparFan91 on August 18, 2005, at 21:43:22
In reply to Re: Weight gain from regimen changes, posted by bart on August 18, 2005, at 20:27:06
> I know SSRI's, especially a sedating one like Luvox are becoming more and more notorious for this weight gain issue.
Luvox is little sedating for me. At 100mg/day, I seemed to be dozing off at times during my breaks at work. This started when i got to 75mg. I take whole dose at night.
I tried to look up information about Luvox and weight gain, but I didn't find many people who's gained on it. The SSRI's with the most reported weight gain that I read about were like Paxil, Effexor, and Lexapro with Paxil causing the most gain. Zoloft and Celexa seemed intermediate. Prozac (and maybe Luvox) were said to be least likely to cause weight gain.
>I've heard everything from cr*pping out of serotonin system to effects on insulin and glucose levels to thyroid effects.
>Anyway, I meant to say in my original post that a serotonin deficiency (which leads to depression) causes carb cravings. I thought the SSRI's are supposed to correct this and hence make the cravings go away. Doctors tend to give SSRI's to people w/ bulimia, binge eating disorder, and other eating disorders. Carb cravings is your body's way of telling you that it needs more serotonin. I myself tend to have carb cravings a bit at times when depressed.
> is Abilify an atypical antipsychotic that is sedating? if it is, I know any of those meds made me eat too much because it sedated me an blocked a lot of dopamine action with excessive antihistamine actionsAbilify doesn't seem to be sedating for me as far as I can tell. I've taken as much as an extra 5mg (as needed) before and felt no sedation after dosing.
Overall, I've come up with a possible conclusion as to why my appetites been through the roof. Since taking high doses of Taurine consistently (like 6,000mg/day), I started to notice that I was having more periods during the day where I was feeling ravenous. Basically, eating something substantial wouldn't get rid of the hunger and if it did, then the hunger would be back again in 10 minutes. At first, I didn't know what us up. This problem was happening even before adding Abilify, Luvox, and changing dose on Lamictal. Everytime I cut back on the Taurine, the incessant hunger would cease.
Ok, I've been reading online that Taurine is an insulin mimicker or glucose disposal agent. Basically, it acts like insulin. That's why it's good for diabetics. It gets blood sugar down. Well whenever I eat something (even something big), those huge doses of Taurine I'm taking must apparently be taking all of the glucose out of my blood and into my cells (both fat and muscle cells). This must be causing my blood sugar to fall to really low levels hence the ravenous hunger. It feels like I haven't eating for a long long time. Other symptoms I feel with this hunger are:
weakness, confusion at times, gnawing feeling, moodiness, anxiety, and fatigue. Before the Taurine (and maybe some other supplements like Chromium and ALA), this wasn't happening before.My consensus is that I'm getting Taurine-Induced Hypoglycemia! The high doses of Taurine must be disposing glucose from my blood. Some other supplements I took which act like insulin mimickers were Chromium Picolinate (1,500mcg/day) and maybe Alpha Lipoic Acid. These probably weren't helping matters any either. I read some reviews where people got some Chromium-Induced hypoglycemia. I also read on usenet that Someone drinking too much Red Bull was left with hypoglycemia from overdosing on the Taurine component.Also, I read that Taurine blocks and suppresses Dopamine and Norepinephrine. It's also a GABA agonist.
Would anyone agree with Taurine and Chromium causing blood sugar problems and hypoglycemic symptoms?
I punted Taurine and Chromium now. So far, tonight (and today for the most part), the hunger problem seems to be getting a little better. I've managed to eat less than 3,000 Calories today w/ no problem.
Posted by bart on August 19, 2005, at 10:00:21
In reply to Re: Weight gain from regimen changes » bart, posted by MoparFan91 on August 18, 2005, at 21:43:22
yep, I've always wondered about the weight gain with SSRI's being that they elevate serotonin, 'cause carbs do indeed replenish serotonin.
therefore, I'm wondering if, over time ssri's might make your serotonin system more sensitized and as a result makes you just as vulnerable to carb cravings over time as the drug levels drop just before your next dosing. I don't really get it myself
Posted by MoparFan91 on August 19, 2005, at 10:22:26
In reply to Re: Weight gain from regimen changes, posted by bart on August 19, 2005, at 10:00:21
> yep, I've always wondered about the weight gain with SSRI's being that they elevate serotonin, 'cause carbs do indeed replenish serotonin.
> therefore, I'm wondering if, over time ssri's might make your serotonin system more sensitized and as a result makes you just as vulnerable to carb cravings over time as the drug levels drop just before your next dosing. I don't really get it myselfI take Inositol (12g now) as well for an adjunct to the Luvox. Inositol is supposed to desensitize serotonin. Would that have any effect on how SSRI's work?
Many studies show that SSRI weight gain generally shows up after over several months of use. I read of people who gained weight on SSRI's, and they said that no amount of exercising or dieting would get it off as long as they were taking the drug. They also claimed that their eating habits didn't really change, but the weight came on anyway. When they got off, the weight came right back off.
For the most part, though, I wouldn't think the Luvox is causing weight gain in my case. I'm not on a very high dose at all, and I haven't been on it for a very long time. Both Lamictal and Abilify are weight neutral as well, so it couldn't be those either.
Recently, I saw a post on here about using Fish Oil to combat SSRI weight gain. Anyone know how this works for that?
I really feel like, though, that it was from some of the supplements I was taking. What do you think?
Posted by bart on August 20, 2005, at 13:27:35
In reply to Re: Weight gain from regimen changes, posted by MoparFan91 on August 19, 2005, at 10:22:26
that's cool that you mention the fish oil solution. I've never heard it used in that fashion. Mostly what I've heard is the overall brain health and mood stabilizing effects it has.
It's also interesting you mention that lack of ability to lose the weight so long as some people are on ssri's because that has been my experience. I've been cutting calories, eating whole grains and fiber, and exercising on top of it (I like to jog a lot anyway because it's so good for my mental health) and I've had the hardest time dropping some of this weight.
What about adding Topomax? I know it's known to help folks lose weight, but what about on top of continuing to take the ssri at the same time?
Posted by MoparFan91 on August 20, 2005, at 15:22:47
In reply to Re: Weight gain from regimen changes, posted by bart on August 20, 2005, at 13:27:35
> that's cool that you mention the fish oil solution. I've never heard it used in that fashion. Mostly what I've heard is the overall brain health and mood stabilizing effects it has.
>I take Fish Oil right now. The brands I use are Nordic Naturals High EPA and Walmart Brand. What I do is mix the two together. I take 1 High EPA cap and 4 Regular caps three times a day. This gives a total of a little over 5,000mg of EPA/DHA combined in a 2:1 EPA:DHA ratio.
> It's also interesting you mention that lack of ability to lose the weight so long as some people are on ssri's because that has been my experience. I've been cutting calories, eating whole grains and fiber, and exercising on top of it (I like to jog a lot anyway because it's so good for my mental health) and I've had the hardest time dropping some of this weight.
>I never seemed to have that problem myself from SSRI's. I think all weight gain I had from meds was from eating alot more. I think the reason behind part of the SSRI weight gain is something to do with liver enzymes that they effect. I read that Fish Oil overcomes that.
The reason I was put on Luvox in the 1st place was that I was having major depression plus carb cravings and binge eating. I thought SSRI's were supposed to help w/ binge eating, but Luvox seems to actually be working against me in that area. Basically it's doing the OPPOSITE of what it should be doing. I may see about a switch to like Topamax for the intrusive thoughts, guilt feelings, OCD and binge eating.
> What about adding Topomax? I know it's known to help folks lose weight, but what about on top of continuing to take the ssri at the same time?
>Good idea. I've always had problems with a large appetite. I binge eat a good bit at times, and I have body image issues as well. I get anxious about my weight/body a lot. This aggravates my bipolar ultra rapid cycling into deep depression a bit.
I was going to ask about adding Topamax back and replacing the Luvox with it because I seem to still be having Ultradian cycling, and some sites and studies say that Topamax is the best med for Ultradian (hourly) bipolar cycling. Also, I'm still having a lot of problems with guilt feelings and negative intrusive thoughts. I read on here that Topamax helped someone a lot with those.
Lamictal overall doesn't seem to take care of Ultradian cycling that, though it's good for regular rapid cycling. I took Topamax one time, and I got benefit from Ultradian cycling at 200mg. I was calmer. We bumped down on the dose because I never gave my body enough time to adjust to the 200mg. I still got benefit at 150mg, though. 100mg/day didn't seem to do much. Another great benefit of Topamax was that it helped a lot with my binge eating, body image issues, guilt feelings, and intrusive thoughts. I had no problems w/ large appetite while I was on it. I think it fixed the chemical imbalance in my brain that was causing the appetite problems, intrusive thoughts, and binge eating.
For the appetite problem, Wellbutrin seems like another good choice, though it doesn't seem to have the other benefits of Topamax. I took it one time. But. dose was too high (300mg) and I had agitation, anxiety, and I was mad as a hornet. On 150mg, there seemed to be no problem.
Posted by MoparFan91 on July 25, 2006, at 2:52:01
In reply to Re: Weight gain from regimen changes » bart, posted by MoparFan91 on August 20, 2005, at 15:22:47
Naturally, I've never had problems with binge eating nor excessively large appetite. All of that was ONLY a problem because I had taken Depakote during my early & mid teenage years and also for a few months in late 2004. That drug is a BIG appetite stimulant and causes a lot of weight gain. It did that to me and caused body image problems in the long-term.
Since I've been off the drug, the appetite thing hasn't been a problem, but the body image problems still remain.
> Good idea. I've always had problems with a large appetite. I binge eat a good bit at times, and I have body image issues as well. I get anxious about my weight/body a lot. This aggravates my bipolar ultra rapid cycling into deep depression a bit.
>
> I was going to ask about adding Topamax back and replacing the Luvox with it because I seem to still be having Ultradian cycling, and some sites and studies say that Topamax is the best med for Ultradian (hourly) bipolar cycling. Also, I'm still having a lot of problems with guilt feelings and negative intrusive thoughts. I read on here that Topamax helped someone a lot with those.
>
> Lamictal overall doesn't seem to take care of Ultradian cycling that, though it's good for regular rapid cycling. I took Topamax one time, and I got benefit from Ultradian cycling at 200mg. I was calmer. We bumped down on the dose because I never gave my body enough time to adjust to the 200mg. I still got benefit at 150mg, though. 100mg/day didn't seem to do much. Another great benefit of Topamax was that it helped a lot with my binge eating, body image issues, guilt feelings, and intrusive thoughts. I had no problems w/ large appetite while I was on it. I think it fixed the chemical imbalance in my brain that was causing the appetite problems, intrusive thoughts, and binge eating.
>
> For the appetite problem, Wellbutrin seems like another good choice, though it doesn't seem to have the other benefits of Topamax. I took it one time. But. dose was too high (300mg) and I had agitation, anxiety, and I was mad as a hornet. On 150mg, there seemed to be no problem.
This is the end of the thread.
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