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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 25 to 49 of 49. Go back in thread:
Posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 1:02:56
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 12, 2005, at 21:22:47
Hey I am new to this board but not new to depression. I recently started nardil as well. I am up to 45 mg per day now after about two weeks, and I think i am starting to feel some effects from it (knock on wood). This would more or less be a first for me as I am very TRD... anyway, would be happy to answer any questions as this board is partially what inspired me to try nardil in the first place.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 1:56:05
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 9, 2005, at 14:19:38
> I am going to put a journal here if you want to see how I'm doing on nardil:
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/mworkman/Mr. Workman, thank you for taking the time to post your journal for us to see. Please add to it daily, and thanks again! I'll be checking it periodically.
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 2:07:57
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 1:02:56
> Hey I am new to this board but not new to depression. I recently started nardil as well. I am up to 45 mg per day now after about two weeks, and I think i am starting to feel some effects from it (knock on wood). This would more or less be a first for me as I am very TRD... anyway, would be happy to answer any questions as this board is partially what inspired me to try nardil in the first place.
Saltate,
I'll take you up on your offer. Any weight gain? Daytime sleepiness? Sexual dysfunction (e.g.; delayed orgasm, erectile dysfunction -- obviously male only question, diminished libido, etc)?
Thanks!
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 2:47:27
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet » Phillipa, posted by Ilene on July 5, 2005, at 21:40:39
Ilene,
> I'm very depressed, but I don't think about suicide every day like I used to.
I'm very sorry for your pain.
> I try to keep myself busy, but I don't work and don't have many friends.
How can I help you, Ilene? For starters, I could be your friend! :-)
What are your depression symptoms?
What is your dx?
What are your current meds and dosages?
> The weather is gloomy, too. We don't see the sun very often in summer.
Do you live down under? The reason I ask is that I live in a western mountain state in the US and the sun goes away in the winter much more than it does in the summer.
-- Ron
BP II and OCPD
600 mg/day Lithobid
900 mg/day Trileptal
50 mg/day Lamictal
2.5 mg/day Deprenyl (as tx for atypical depression)
Posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 3:09:12
In reply to Questions: Nardil Side Effects » saltate, posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 2:07:57
>
> Saltate,
>
> I'll take you up on your offer. Any weight gain? Daytime sleepiness? Sexual dysfunction (e.g.; delayed orgasm, erectile dysfunction -- obviously male only question, diminished libido, etc)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Ron
>
>
Ok, well let me qualify this by saying that it has only been about two weeks, but so far, very few side effects. I would say sex has actually somewhat improved, although i wasn't enjoying it whatsoever before. Delayed orgasm is something that has occurred but i don't see that as necessarily being a negative. As far as the sleep thing, it is hard to say because i am the sort of person who stays up all night and is tired during the day anyway, so i cant really say about that. I haven't noticed any other side effects, other then the occasional feeling of something going on in my head, like my brain is reordering itself or something. The improvement is gradual but i have been noticing it and i am one who obsessivley analyzes my mind state all the time.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 16:17:47
In reply to Re: Questions: Nardil Side Effects, posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 3:09:12
Posted by Ilene on July 14, 2005, at 19:22:39
In reply to The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 2:47:27
>
> How can I help you, Ilene? For starters, I could be your friend! :-)
>See you over on Social!
> What are your depression symptoms?
>I feel unmotivated, slowed down, stupid, uninterested and uninteresting, I sleep a lot, I think about suicide off and on.
> What is your dx?
>Unipolar depression.
> What are your current meds and dosages?
Prozac 60 mg, soon to go up to 80 mg, Abilify 10 mg, down from 20, Cytomel 1 microgram. I used to take Neurontin but went off it when I read it was linked to suicide.
>
> > The weather is gloomy, too. We don't see the sun very often in summer.
>
> Do you live down under? The reason I ask is that I live in a western mountain state in the US and the sun goes away in the winter much more than it does in the summer.
>No, I live on the west side of San Francisco. We get a lot of summer fog. It gets sucked in through the Golden Gate. Pretty to look at when you're out of it, gloomy when you're in it.
I.
Posted by 4WD on July 14, 2005, at 22:33:24
In reply to Re: Questions: Nardil Side Effects, posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 3:09:12
>
> >
> > Saltate,
> >
> > I'll take you up on your offer. Any weight gain? Daytime sleepiness? Sexual dysfunction (e.g.; delayed orgasm, erectile dysfunction -- obviously male only question, diminished libido, etc)?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -- Ron
> >
> >
> Ok, well let me qualify this by saying that it has only been about two weeks, but so far, very few side effects. I would say sex has actually somewhat improved, although i wasn't enjoying it whatsoever before. Delayed orgasm is something that has occurred but i don't see that as necessarily being a negative. As far as the sleep thing, it is hard to say because i am the sort of person who stays up all night and is tired during the day anyway, so i cant really say about that. I haven't noticed any other side effects, other then the occasional feeling of something going on in my head, like my brain is reordering itself or something. The improvement is gradual but i have been noticing it and i am one who obsessivley analyzes my mind state all the time.
>
>
Hi Saltate,Have you noticed being hungrier than usual? Have you gained any weight?
Have you had any unusual (for you) problems falling asleep?
Nardil is on my list of meds to try, so I'm very curious about side effects.
Thanks,
Marsha
Posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 22:41:46
In reply to Re: Questions: Nardil Side Effects » saltate, posted by 4WD on July 14, 2005, at 22:33:24
Hungrier, no. I've never been a big eater, I often have to remind myself to eat. I guess I would have to say I have had some difficulty falling asleep, but my sleeping has always been extremely erratic. Its not unusual for me to be totally nocturnal for periods (going to sleep at 8, 9, 10 in the morning)> Hi Saltate,
>
> Have you noticed being hungrier than usual? Have you gained any weight?
>
> Have you had any unusual (for you) problems falling asleep?
>
> Nardil is on my list of meds to try, so I'm very curious about side effects.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marsha
>
Posted by 4WD on July 14, 2005, at 23:16:17
In reply to Re: Questions: Nardil Side Effects, posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 22:41:46
Posted by mworkman on July 15, 2005, at 9:44:04
In reply to 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 5, 2005, at 15:07:22
I am now on 45 mg. This will be my third day of 45. I still am not noticing any side effects. Nardil seems to be milder than any ssri I have taken. They all made me tired all the time and sweat(sp?) a lot. This hasn't yet. Maybe when I hit 60 mg I will get the side effects. I am starting to notice it is helping with both anxiety and depression. A week ago I might have said it was a placebo effect, but now I can tell it is the pill. So far it seems to be working out great. I have lost about 5 pounds since I have been on it(like 3 weeks now). I have been trying to eat better and exercise more, but the nardil doesn't seem to be causing any food cravings, if anything it is the oppsite.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 14:31:43
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ron Hill, posted by Ilene on July 14, 2005, at 19:22:39
Ilene,
> > How can I help you, Ilene? For starters, I could be your friend! :-)
> See you over on Social!I don't make it over there. I stick to this board and Admin. As an aside, I may have to leave PB soon, but I want to follow up with your first. If I dissappear, feel free to contact me via babblemail.
> > What are your depression symptoms?
> I feel unmotivated, slowed down, stupid, uninterested and uninteresting, I sleep a lot, I think about suicide off and on.I'm BP II and my depressive phase is the atypical variety. Your depression sounds exactly like mine.
For me, my atypical depression seems to have dopaminergic roots. I'm six weeks into a trial of very low dosage Selegiline. It's too early in the trial to proclaim victory, but so far, I'm getting good results. It's taken me a while to find the best dosage, but I think I'm onto something. Have you every looked into the dopaminergic tx approach?
> > What is your dx?
> Unipolar depression.No cycling at all, correct? Never any hypomania, right?
> > What are your current meds and dosages?> Prozac 60 mg, soon to go up to 80 mg, Abilify 10 mg, down from 20, Cytomel 1 microgram. I used to take Neurontin but went off it when I read it was linked to suicide.
I wonder if you are experiencing SSRI Induced Apathy. Raising serotonin levels with an SSRI can, in some cases, lower dopamine levels resulting in apathy, low motivation, anergy, anhedonia, etc. Does the Abilify reduce your apathy at all?
Have you ever tried adding a pstim (e.g.; Adderall XR, Concerta, Provigil, etc) or an MAOI-b like Selegiline? If you've never added a dopaminergic medication to your cocktail, I'd be curious to see what it would do for you.
-- Ron
BP II and OCPD
600 mg/day Lithobid
900 mg/day Trileptal
50 mg/day Lamictal
2.5 mg/day Selegiline <brand name Deprenyl> (as tx for atypical depression)
Posted by ed_uk on July 15, 2005, at 14:47:39
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 14:31:43
Hi Ron,
>As an aside, I may have to leave PB soon.......
:-( Why?
~Ed
Posted by Ilene on July 15, 2005, at 15:32:15
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 14:31:43
> I don't make it over there. I stick to this board and Admin. As an aside, I may have to leave PB soon, but I want to follow up with your first. If I dissappear, feel free to contact me via babblemail.
>Sorry you might have to leave.
> For me, my atypical depression seems to have dopaminergic roots. I'm six weeks into a trial of very low dosage Selegiline. It's too early in the trial to proclaim victory, but so far, I'm getting good results. It's taken me a while to find the best dosage, but I think I'm onto something. Have you every looked into the dopaminergic tx approach?
>I'm not sure. I've tried a lot of drugs.
> > > What is your dx?
>
> > Unipolar depression.
>
> No cycling at all, correct? Never any hypomania, right?
>No cycling/hypomania.
> I wonder if you are experiencing SSRI Induced Apathy. Raising serotonin levels with an SSRI can, in some cases, lower dopamine levels resulting in apathy, low motivation, anergy, anhedonia, etc. Does the Abilify reduce your apathy at all?
>I actually feel a little better now than before I started the Prozac. Besides, Prozac was one of the only two drugs that ever worked for me. The other was desipramine. The Abilify doesn't do a thing.
> Have you ever tried adding a pstim (e.g.; Adderall XR, Concerta, Provigil, etc) or an MAOI-b like Selegiline? If you've never added a dopaminergic medication to your cocktail, I'd be curious to see what it would do for you.
>I tried Provigil and one of the amphetamine types; I think it was dexedrine. I used to be on Marplan; I don't know if it's an MAOI-b or not.
I.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 15:47:18
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ron Hill, posted by ed_uk on July 15, 2005, at 14:47:39
Ed,
You and I have not talked much in the past, but just so you know, for quite some time I've had you on my list of "Smart and Well Informed People at PB". You know a lot about p-meds and I've always found your posts to be credible.
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 20:13:41
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ron Hill, posted by Ilene on July 15, 2005, at 15:32:15
> I tried Provigil and one of the amphetamine types; I think it was dexedrine. I used to be on Marplan; I don't know if it's an MAOI-b or not.
What did the dex do for you, anything?
What about the Marplan; what did it do?
-- Ron
Posted by Ilene on July 15, 2005, at 20:55:04
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 20:13:41
> > I tried Provigil and one of the amphetamine types; I think it was dexedrine. I used to be on Marplan; I don't know if it's an MAOI-b or not.
>
> What did the dex do for you, anything?
>
> What about the Marplan; what did it do?
>
> -- Ron
Neither of them did anything. ECT didn't do anything either.I.
Posted by ed_uk on July 16, 2005, at 8:06:06
In reply to List of Smart and Well Informed People at PB » ed_uk, posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 15:47:18
Thank you! You're very kind :-)
~Ed
Posted by SLS on July 16, 2005, at 9:01:56
In reply to Re: List of Smart and Well Informed People at PB » Ron Hill, posted by ed_uk on July 16, 2005, at 8:06:06
> Thank you! You're very kind :-)
>
> ~EdYes, he is. But what I want to know is if you used Paypal to bribe him into saying that. If you did, I have a Paypal account too, you know. You owe me some big money!
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on July 16, 2005, at 9:08:44
In reply to Re: List of Smart and Well Informed People at PB » ed_uk, posted by SLS on July 16, 2005, at 9:01:56
LOL, I didn't bribe him! How much do I owe you?
~Ed
Posted by Ron Hill on July 16, 2005, at 15:31:54
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ron Hill, posted by Ilene on July 15, 2005, at 20:55:04
> Neither of them did anything. ECT didn't do anything either.
Foo-ee. :-(
What's currently on your list of meds (or other tx) to try? What's at the top of your list? Do you exercise regularly?
-- Ron
Posted by Ilene on July 16, 2005, at 15:57:27
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 16, 2005, at 15:31:54
> What's currently on your list of meds (or other tx) to try? What's at the top of your list? Do you exercise regularly?
>
> -- RonI'm starting with a new pdoc in about a month. I hope she'll have some ideas. I've tried a tricyclic, ssri's, an maoi, zyprexa, provigil, speed, lamictal, klonopin, and probably a few I forgot. I take walks and just started an exercise class.
I.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 17, 2005, at 13:26:15
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ron Hill, posted by Ilene on July 16, 2005, at 15:57:27
> I'm starting with a new pdoc in about a month. I hope she'll have some ideas. I've tried a tricyclic, ssri's, an maoi, zyprexa, provigil, speed, lamictal, klonopin, and probably a few I forgot. I take walks and just started an exercise class.
> I.
I,
Best wishes with your new pdoc and your exercise program.
Keep trying Ilene. There's an answer out there for you. Continue doing your homework.
I wish I had a magic wand. You'd be near the front of the line. Scott (SLS) would be first, of course.
-- Ron
BP II and OCPD
600 mg/day Lithobid
900 mg/day Trileptal
50 mg/day Lamictal
2.5 mg/day Selegiline <brand name Deprenyl> (as tx for atypical depression)
Posted by Ilene on July 17, 2005, at 13:55:26
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 17, 2005, at 13:26:15
> I,
>
> Best wishes with your new pdoc and your exercise program.
>
> Keep trying Ilene. There's an answer out there for you. Continue doing your homework.
>
> I wish I had a magic wand. You'd be near the front of the line. Scott (SLS) would be first, of course.
>
> -- RonThanks for your good wishes.
I.
Posted by tez on July 18, 2005, at 16:55:45
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 17, 2005, at 13:26:15
Hi,
Exercise is a great means of helping with depression. It is believed that it generates natural serotonin which of course is a natural anti-depressant.I have been on a lot of drugs (over 170) and I know they are not always the answer. They often make you feel worse!
Perhaps we should look at our lives and see what we can change there: be good to ourselves, have occasional treats, enjoy the sunshine and fresh air, socialise more, join a club or a church, talking therapy with counsellors etc etc. Animals also have a great boosting effect on our lives.
I understand how you feel because I like many others am coping with the same problem of treatment resistant depression. However, I have an underlying condition which I can do nothing about!!
Also, make sure you do see a specialist. If there is an underlying condition then seek treatment for that.
The Samaritans are always there if you need someone just to talk to. They are wonderful people and can help.
I hope that all goes well with you. I will keep you in my thoughts. So many people DO care.
Best wishes,
Tez
> > I'm starting with a new pdoc in about a month. I hope she'll have some ideas. I've tried a tricyclic, ssri's, an maoi, zyprexa, provigil, speed, lamictal, klonopin, and probably a few I forgot. I take walks and just started an exercise class.
>
> > I.
>
> I,
>
> Best wishes with your new pdoc and your exercise program.
>
> Keep trying Ilene. There's an answer out there for you. Continue doing your homework.
>
> I wish I had a magic wand. You'd be near the front of the line. Scott (SLS) would be first, of course.
>
> -- Ron
>
> BP II and OCPD
>
> 600 mg/day Lithobid
>
> 900 mg/day Trileptal
>
> 50 mg/day Lamictal
>
> 2.5 mg/day Selegiline <brand name Deprenyl> (as tx for atypical depression)
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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