![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 16:01:17
Why are we on these meds if person after person is saying they have quit working as well and or are trying to get off them?? These docs just hand them out and say nothing about withdrawals or them pooping out. Why am I on them?? Because I do not want to turn into a literal basket case with docs telling me it is all in my head. Been there. But the truth is, I was much better before the meds. Better now on them again though than trying to spend a year and my life`s savings off them and withdrawing and trying to normalize. Trapped I feel like...
Posted by zeugma on April 25, 2005, at 16:46:22
In reply to to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 16:01:17
But the truth is, I was much better before the meds. >>
Why did you start on them then? I don't think meds should be taken by anyone except those whose problems are severe enough to warrant the possible failures of/withdrawals from meds.
Besides, virtually all meds are safer than alcohol and nicotine, which kill millions each year between them.
-z
Posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 17:27:19
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by zeugma on April 25, 2005, at 16:46:22
> But the truth is, I was much better before the meds. >>
>
> Why did you start on them then? I don't think meds should be taken by anyone except those whose problems are severe enough to warrant the possible failures of/withdrawals from meds.
>
> Besides, virtually all meds are safer than alcohol and nicotine, which kill millions each year between them.
>
> -zI started on Xanax at a doc`s suggestion because I was in a stressful job, used it about a year for stress and sleep, but was by no means having panic attacks, vibrating, seeing surreal, walking on clouds, dealing with burning skin, hearing music that was not playing, shaking at the slightest provocation etc., etc. Most was still going strong 6 months after discontinuation even after a re-instatement and a slow taper. So rather than try to push a shopping cart in this land of "compassionate conservatism," and to get out of the dark depression this has caused, I went on Valium and a bit of Paxil. Am still not my old self and may never be again. That answers your question but I still would like answers to mine. I mean, why are so many people trying to get off the meds if they work? Why do so many say they do not work or quit working. I speak of this board. Thanks for letting me play the devil`s advocate. I truly want to learn. :-)
P.S. Alcohol and nicotine withdrawals are typically over in a few days. If these people can hold off future cravings they are in the clear, and at 12 step meetings getting chips and hugs, not huddled in a chair trying to breathe for months.
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 18:05:47
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 17:27:19
I'm so glad you started this Thread. That's a question I want answered too. The more meds I've tried the worse I feel. I don't think I will ever be "normal" again. This should be a very interesting and informative Thread. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 18:07:53
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 17:27:19
I hear exactly what you are saying:
They never work properly, poopout is inevitable,
and withdrawl is equal and opposite to any positive effect the drug ever gave.Read my addmitedly negative rant:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050414/msgs/489306.html
I was simply depressed before. Now I am depressed, anxious and suicidal on a daily basis.
I am only 22, and can barely walk straight or think clearly.
The only way that these drugs work is by distraction.
Oh sure its a nice little field trip from reality, but when it comes down to it they are a class of not so safe escape drugs.
You're better off exercising and going to talk therapy.
Linkadge
Posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 18:13:35
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate » Paul Smith, posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 18:05:47
> I'm so glad you started this Thread. That's a question I want answered too. The more meds I've tried the worse I feel. I don't think I will ever be "normal" again. This should be a very interesting and informative Thread. Fondly, Phillipa
Thanks. I really think the answer may lie in taking more of the med that has worked. But how high can you go? That is the $50,000 question. Tell you what does work for a short while, belting down a few beers. But dangerous and in a no way advised by me. I do suspect though that these multi-med cocktails perhaps can really confuse the brain. My shrink and his presription pad, quite a phenomenon. I have only filled two RXs.
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 18:22:59
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 18:13:35
I said it in a previous post. That's what used to work for me too even while I was also taking a benzo. In small doses. Good sleep, woke up feeling fine, and was a very good RN. Now I don't even work. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on April 25, 2005, at 18:26:24
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate » Paul Smith, posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 18:05:47
I don't want to discourage people from getting help. But this is not help.
I never want to see another child put on these drugs. I never want to see another kid's brain put through the kind of dammage my brain has been put through.
The problem is that NOBODY listens to the words of people in my positon. Cause I am "sick", and as such my views are distorted.
That may be, but I have enough sentient brain cells to realize that this is not the same brain I once had. I know the exact medications that caused each one of these seeminly permanant side effects.
Help is something else. I am not sure what, cause I havn't found it but it is certainly not this.
Linkadge
Posted by banga on April 25, 2005, at 20:00:50
In reply to to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 16:01:17
> Why are we on these meds if person after person is saying they have quit working as well and or are trying to get off them?? These docs just hand them out and say nothing about withdrawals or them pooping out.
Counterargument-
Do remember the skewed viewpoint you see on this board. People who come here most typically have trouble with the medications--you do not hear from the millions that benefit from medications, who have been rescued from suicide and psychosis and have no trouble.
This is not to say that there is a HUGE problem with overprescribing, and lack of information regarding side effects and other risks. And poop-out. Medications should not typically be used as the first-line treatment for psychological distress, therapy and other less invasive interventions should be considered first.
Medications are serious and not to be toyed with. But until someone comes up with better things we are often faced with taking meds and their risks in the pursuit of relief from mental torment.
Posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 21:24:08
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by banga on April 25, 2005, at 20:00:50
> > Why are we on these meds if person after person is saying they have quit working as well and or are trying to get off them?? These docs just hand them out and say nothing about withdrawals or them pooping out.
>
> Counterargument-
>
> Do remember the skewed viewpoint you see on this board. People who come here most typically have trouble with the medications--you do not hear from the millions that benefit from medications, who have been rescued from suicide and psychosis and have no trouble.
>
> This is not to say that there is a HUGE problem with overprescribing, and lack of information regarding side effects and other risks. And poop-out. Medications should not typically be used as the first-line treatment for psychological distress, therapy and other less invasive interventions should be considered first.
>
> Medications are serious and not to be toyed with. But until someone comes up with better things we are often faced with taking meds and their risks in the pursuit of relief from mental torment.I like your argument. It would be very encouraging to me if I could hear from some of these people that have gone many years living reasonably happy and productive lives on these powerful meds, especially benzos which I cannot seem to get off of without intolerable suffering. Theses people are hard for me to find though. From what I read on the net including anti-med docs, and hear in the doc`s office, it seems almost exclusively a quite frustrating exercise in grasping at straws. Myself, I will admit, at least for now, was saved from I do not know what all by re-instating meds. But God be my witness, in my case, it was all the product of drug withdrawal, alterations in my brain due to the meds, not the reoccurance of a pre-existing condition as self-serving docs tried to call it. I never had any of that madness before those meds, not even close. And there seemed to be no end, went on many months. This started with being put on the wrong meds for the wrong reason, long term, with completely inadequate warnings.
Posted by Mr.Scott on April 25, 2005, at 22:04:00
In reply to to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 16:01:17
God I'm glad you said it first!
First Things First.
1). If Dr. Bob feels the need to move this thread I cannot use words to describe the feelings I will have towards him. They will not be positive though.
2). This is possibly the 'most' important thread on this board, regardless of how people feel either way, it cuts to the point of where many of us are today. And it needs to be addressed both by the patients and the doctors.
44% of Americans take at least 1 prescription drug. Thats a lot of drugs being bought each year. We go to docs with a problem. They give us pills. The pills are inherently flawed, we sometimes end up worse. In my case not knowing who I really am any more and not being able to find out because I'll have withdrawal symptoms that make me keep taking a pill that I'm not sure works and in fact may be making me worse.
I blame society and myself for searching for that quick fix, but I also blame the docs and pharma and insurance companies for not really having our best interest at heart when it comes to the big picture. At $170.00/hour they should know what is best for us and what their own limitations are.
You know something...I cried on the floor of my parents living room for 3 f---in days when I was 17, Im now 30. I was so anxious and depressed (first time) that I began to think I was a repressed homosexual (nothing against gays, but I'm not). You know what I needed...People to nurse my broken *ss scared and unhappy soul back to health. I needed people to tell me it was okay to be me and that they loved me. I needed round the clock psychotherapy and love and compassion. I needed a n optimistic gentle and soothing person to talk me off the bell tower and help me understand that this would pass. But instead I got xanax, sinequan, and as the years went by a whole host of other sh*t either prescibed or taken myself because I believed i was broken and needed fixing.
Now I may be broken and in need of fixing, but what they got these days in pill form ain't so hot. And now I feel lost. Still unhappy because I was distracted by pill popping from ever really dealing with my issues and finding solutions. And on top of it I'm dependent on these pills that either don't work, cause depression, or whatever.
And I haven't a clue about where I can even really turn. Do any of you? I have a job, a fiance, an upcoming test for grad school, bills to pay, and I feel like I'm drowning. The temporary repreive from pills was just enough to get me in deep enough in life so that if I wanted to take the time to stop this merry-go-round I would have to dissapoint a lot of people and walk through some serious fears.
I wish I had never sought out psychiatry. I certainly wish I had never used controlled substances. In most cases it's like treating a chronic problem with a temporary solution.
Maybe I'm just really in a bad way right now, but regardless I'm still really in a bad way right now with 4 different prescriptions, two of which I'm most certainly addicted to.
Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 22:57:11
In reply to to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 16:01:17
Scott, Noone could have said it better than you just did. I too, hope Dr. Bob will understand just how important it is to have this discussion on this Board. Afterall it is the medications board. And this issue of whether or not to even start on this merry-go-round should be available to everyone who is taking meds or contemplating it. I wouldn't know how to live my life without a pdoc as it was instilled in me, even when I was doing so well that when I moved from CT to VA I would need someone to discuss issues with. So my CT pdoc gave me the name of someone he attended pdoc school with and I bagan seeing him. I didn't think I needed to see anyone but I thought because he was the doc he knew best. Then to make matters worse this person whom I had seen, didn't even need to take meds anymore at the time, when it came time to say good-bye wrapped his arms around me and babbled something about how I really had wanted to have sex with him. I went into shock mentally and it took a long time to get over. Why did I include this when the issue is meds? Only because at the time this happened I didn't and wasn't on any. I could have moved and continued with my life med free. Instead I saw his friend and that began xanax. Why I don't even remember. I'm ranting because my memory is coming back to events I've tried to forget. My motto is even the pdoc who manages to get you off meds is determined to keep you seeing a pdoc even if you don't need one. There! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Paul Smith on April 26, 2005, at 0:02:32
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate » Paul Smith, posted by Phillipa on April 25, 2005, at 22:57:11
My motto is even the pdoc who manages to get you off meds is determined to keep you seeing a pdoc even if you don't need one. There! Fondly, Phillipa
That is all good, and I would love to be med free again. Got people I love that count on me, but I cannot be all there for them. And would do just that if the withdrawals would end in a few weeks like my doc says, "rest is in your head." He is dead wrong for many of us. In your head alright, altered brain chemistry that for many of us is very slow to heal. Have met too many people that were absurdly hyperexcitable and dealing with sesnsory and motor disturbances for many months, often even years, after coming off certain meds. Well, not all of us have a loved one to hold us up for such waits. So we are stuck. A 30 day treatment center? Well for many of us that would be just a start, around all the alkies who had been playing basketball and laughing for 3 weeks. Plus most of us are not drug abusers, in spite of the deflective label. Theraputic stable use is not abuse.
Posted by chemist on April 26, 2005, at 1:46:27
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 26, 2005, at 0:02:32
hello there, chemist here...certainly a worthy thread and plenty of room for discussion. i feel that - as linkadge states - the younger population is being overmedicated, and the risks might well outweigh the benefits.
i went to seek help because of crippling anxiety and panic. there have been good times and bad times, medications that worked for a bit, and some not at all (in my estimation). the medical professionals have varied just as the populace in general does. there is a higher expectation of ``quality service,'' yet they can only work with what we give to them and the drugs used for the common complaints of anxiety, depression, and mood disorders are not at all winners the first go-round.
many drugs do stop working over time. however, this statement can be construed in at least two ways: one's biochemistry has changed to a point where the medication is no longer perceived as effective or is diminished in efficacy; or the medication did in fact work and is no longer needed (``why am i taking an anti-depressant still if i'm not depressed?'').
i recall life being quite grand 10 years ago. but i am 10 years older, and life's circumstances and numerous other variables have changed. further, it is abundantly clear that i should have been in therapy early on: alas, my parents are non-believers in mental health problems, and i am of the age and gender that is perhaps rightly labelled reluctant to seek help in the mental health department.
linkadge - you are a sage, and i wish you well, as your latest posts are painful to read - makes a very valid point concerning the perception of ``mental problems:'' from family to friends to employers and so forth, this plague appears to be universally shunned. a layman's explanation of a chemical imbalance in one's brain being akin to adult-onset diabetes, for instance (perhaps not the best example), is met with disbelief when i invoke it. i am a ``pill popper,'' a person whose problems are inventions, and simply need a couple of beers to unwind - this is the view from the family perspective. ex-friends, happily drinking beer, smoking marihuana and cigarettes while phoning a dealer to secure some ecstacy, want nothing to do with me, and it is hardly due to my sterling interpersonal skills: i only take medication prescribed for me, and apparently this is one step from being institutionalized.
however, there are those who do understand - or are open to our collective plight - and whether it is a therapist, doctor, friend, or internet buddy, if it works, then the job is being done, in my opinion...
all the best to you all, tjm
Posted by banga on April 26, 2005, at 6:55:32
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate » Paul Smith, posted by Mr.Scott on April 25, 2005, at 22:04:00
>..... I blame society ..... for searching for that quick fix, but I also blame the docs and pharma and insurance companies for not really having our best interest at heart when it comes to the big picture. At $170.00/hour they should know what is best for us and what their own limitations are.
>
From a business perspective, where there is demand, you bring supply...AND I think you are quite right about it being in part a societal problem. The whole situation runs like a well-oiled machine, the drug companies, the insurance companies, the doctor, the society and the patient--all dutifully playing their part. And everyone is responsible for their contribution.Psychotherapy is very much underused, it is cheaper for the insurance company to have people take medications. It has been a hard battle for psychologists to show that psychotherapy is just as effective as medication, and the results can be more long-lasting. (The most powerful is therapy plus medication, even if short-term).
In a previous thread, people pondered who is neglecting their ethical responsibilities in having this machine keep running--it really is everyone's. But human nature is such that a person says--well if YOU change first, then I will. Noone is motivated to go first. The one who goes first loses the most.
I believe--just in part of course-- that doctors are overburdened with the amount of expertise they are supposed to have, and too little time for training etc. Though there are unethical doctors, I believe most have their patients' best interest at heart....and one is providing them with the quickest relief.
This is of course such a complex, loaded issue. Being third generation of women who have multiple suicide attempts and mood disorder psychoses (untreated), I look back on their tortured lives and think how they could have been helped. My cousin's illness is in check and she is now able to have a family. Without meds she would probably be committed and would not have a life to speak of. Before I found medications that work I was engaging in suicidal drinking, killing off my health, my life and those of people around me. I was in psychotherapy for threee years before I decided it was time for medication.
And then on the other hand, there are you many who have long-term agonizing consequences from the medications. One of my pdocs was on the right track--she said that *at best* meds may help approx. 60% of a person's difficulties; the rest needs to be addressed via other means. And she had me sign forms that we discussed side effects.
For now I think it behooves everyone--patients and doctors--be mindful, do your own research, not to jump to answers, explore other options (acupuncture and frequent saunas can be very healing!!). ALWAYS be vigilant and consider the other person's motives (doctor understandably wants to end your suffering quick, the drug company will be motivated to hide drugs' negative consequences)....
In a nutshell, there is lack of communication, cooperation, assumption of responsibility by all involved.ok Ill end befoe everyone falls asleep!!
Take care,
B.
Posted by PM80 on April 26, 2005, at 8:03:45
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 26, 2005, at 0:02:32
I'm going to play the devil's devil's advocate here. Admittedly, many docs overprescribe drugs and patients look up to and trust these docs, but ultimately it is the patient who takes the drugs. One cannot expect a pill to just make all their problems go away. If someone starts taking a med and gets side effects worse than the condition the pill is supposed to treat; the person should stop taking the pill. At that point, it is less the doc's fault and far more the patient's fault. We are each in charge of our own life, with the exception perhaps of a psychotic person. We do not have to be completely helpless or slaves to a disorder. We can seek out true help. If that sounds harsh, well, I guess it is.
That said, yes, a lot of doctors are only worried about their paycheck and really do not care all that much about their patients. It is sad. I am sorry that some of your experiences have been so bad.
Like banga said earlier, pdrugs do help millions of people. I know that they have helped me. I no longer have panic attacks; I no longer have uncomfortable racing thoughts. My moods do not yoyo so extremely or eratically as before. I do not spend an entire Saturday afternoon in my bed, staring at the ceiling, waiting for time to pass by. But I stopped taking my first pdrug days after starting because of bad side effects. I then worked with my doc to find the right drugs and the right doses for me. Finding a good doc that worked with me and did not treat me like a basket case was so important.
Posted by ed_uk on April 26, 2005, at 9:07:36
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by PM80 on April 26, 2005, at 8:03:45
Hi everyone,
This thread made me think back to when I was a child. I first saw a pdoc when I was 10. I saw her for about 4 years before she prescribed any medication (paroxetine). I DO believe that she had my best interests at heart. She didn't prescribe the medication casually, nor did she suggest that it would solve all my problems.
I'm not taking any medication at the moment, I took my last pill about 2 weeks ago (lofepramine), I haven't had any withdrawal symptoms. Now, I'm just taking omega 3 fish oil and a multivitamin.
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on April 26, 2005, at 10:21:04
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by ed_uk on April 26, 2005, at 9:07:36
I am at the point where I don't think that medications do anything. I have lost all faith in them.
I've said it before but all they do is distract me from what the real problems are.
Think of it this way:
If you go to the doctor with an excruciating pain in your leg, the first thing they do isn't prescribe morphine and send you on your way.
(well maybe it is, I don't know)Hopefully, they would do some x-wrays or something to try and pinpoint the source of the problem. The pain is there for a reason. Sure it feels great/empowering to pop a pill and have the pain go away, but if the underlying symptom is not addressed, then the medication will never solve the problem. Worse yet, you may build up a tollerance, and require more medication.
It is like saying that everyone in physical pain, has an "endorphen-chemical imballence".
Likewise, mental pain (in most cases) is there for a reason. It is telling us something.
For me, it was telling me I was working too hard in school. Unfortunately, in this rat race of a society, telling a teacher or employer that you are getting depressed from the demands, simply menas that the rewards go to the ones who are dealing with the demands. We have created a society where saying "no" brings failure or shame.
Anyhow, I was meant to feel that failure to perform was a problem with my brain chemistry, so I got on the medication merry-go-round.
Oh sure, even cocaine can temporarily ward of fatigue, hunger, and steals one to intelectual effort, (it even boosts BDNF!). But the superhuman it creates is in a very dangerous position.
Cause once that little demon pops into your head saying "you don't need to fix the problem, you can just pop a pill instead" Then we are in trouble, cause a part of that demon will always be with us.
Thats probably what I am here. It is a fix for me, an escape. For a while, I can buy into it all over again. I can feed that little demon with new drug names, and my imagniation can tantelize me with how some new drug would change my life. I imagine all the things I would do if I was on that drug. Perhaps thats where the placebo effect begins.
Its the age old "the grass is greener on the other side of the hill" A new drugs is only good when it is novel. It's effects maybe only last a month at best, then I need a mew one so that I can believe again for a while.
Perhaps I havn't found the right drug yet, or is that again just another manifestation of my imagination?
Linkadge
Posted by bimini on April 26, 2005, at 10:39:09
In reply to to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Paul Smith on April 25, 2005, at 16:01:17
docs hand them out because we ask for it...I am the basket and the weaver...it is in my head and in the basket...after...been...before...there...now.
Better? Truth?
My reality is too remote to get analyzed by someone in one without the leaps and bounds. My aim is to function as best I can with what I have at any moment. I aim to train the filters, finetune the input to efficate living. I cannot compare to the past neither worry about what will not be said in the future. I don't know what I am saying, it has a way of explaining itself when all the pieces are together.
I am gainfully selfemployed with the help of medication. The feedback from my experience is changing my needs. The direction is determined by the basket.
bimini
Posted by tendency on April 26, 2005, at 12:03:09
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by bimini on April 26, 2005, at 10:39:09
ive said it before: it is the patients responsibility to educate, educate and then educate themselves some more about their disease and all possible solutions. meds, in my opinion, should *always* be the last resort. unfortunately, our society is such (HMOs, insurance etc.) that the solution is geared towards the least expensive and quickest 'cure'.
in my case, i spent two years playing around with 'alternative' answers (accupunture, energy work, nutri-therapy - see 'The Mood Cure' by Julia Ross, it's a great start - thyroid and adrenal issues, pyroluria, food allergies, therapy, etc. etc.). it was only after exhausting all possible alternative avenues, and seeing that i still had problems, that i turned to meds. make no mistake, these alternatives have helped tremendously and i feel have allowed me to take a bare minimum of meds with the lowest chance for side effects.
problem is this takes $$$$ - lots of it, patience and time..
Posted by Ritch on April 26, 2005, at 12:21:19
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by linkadge on April 26, 2005, at 10:21:04
>... Unfortunately, in this rat race of a society, telling a teacher or employer that you are getting depressed from the demands, simply menas that the rewards go to the ones who are dealing with the demands. We have created a society where saying "no" brings failure or shame.
>
> Anyhow, I was meant to feel that failure to perform was a problem with my brain chemistry, so I got on the medication merry-go-round...It sounds like the "Brave New World" is evidently here and now. This somehow reminds me of something Kurt Vonnegut was writing about once regarding the future and that nobody would be afraid of anything any more (I esp. liked his fictional drug "tribenzodeportamil"). Cosmetic psychopharmacology? Endless productivity enhancement through the latest chemistry? Nip and tuck for your brain? It does seem that when people are getting a little behind in their work or depressed about it.. they end up on an SSRI or Stratterra or WB to help them focus. Perhaps all this just prevents proper restructuring of things (socially generally) by just treating symptoms...?
Posted by Wee Willy on April 26, 2005, at 13:29:23
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by Ritch on April 26, 2005, at 12:21:19
Unfortately humane biochemistry is poorly understood. Endocrine problems have been suspected to be a cause of mood and cognitive disorders for many years. The research on the androgen hormones is what interests me since I have suspected low production of Inhibin as being a significant factor in my own case. The research and evidence is mounting and the breakthroughs we need should be unveiled soon. Certainly their are numerous causes of mood and cognition disorders but it is appearing possible that only some(few) are because of serotonin,NE,or dopamine irregularities. If I or others do have an endocrine disorder it sure would explain why we are not having much success being treated with current treatments. It would be like a Hypothyroid sufferer going round and round with AD treatments.Thanks and best wishes.
Posted by Paul Smith on April 26, 2005, at 14:25:45
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by PM80 on April 26, 2005, at 8:03:45
<< I'm going to play the devil's devil's advocate here. Admittedly, many docs overprescribe drugs and patients look up to and trust these docs, but ultimately it is the patient who takes the drugs. One cannot expect a pill to just make all their problems go away. If someone starts taking a med and gets side effects worse than the condition the pill is supposed to treat; the person should stop taking the pill. At that point, it is less the doc's fault and far more>>
the patient's fault.I respectfully disagree wholeheartedly. The fact that benzos can often cause drug induced highly severe anxiety as well as visual and motor disturbances long term, for months, even years, is documented in the medical literature and through several studies, even with slow tapering off. Even the American Psychiatric Association admits this in the DSM, so any doc that does not warn of the very real possibility of this consequence is guilty of negligence. The responsibility lies with them and the drug companies, not the patient. As the patient should not be harmed and should be put in a position to make an informed decision. Mine would have been to have rejected my first Xanax script, much less have taken them long term with doctor approval and no real warnings. Most never knew drugs with such capabilities existed, much less would be FDA approved. Am stuck for now though, withdrawals too long term and torturous, and I did not have any of those symptoms prior. I know what caused it and know whose fault it is. Am not playing "the devil`s advocate" now but telling the truth, a truth I will stand by to my last day. I am re-instated on the meds now, most of the withdrawals subsided, future uncertain, but will not give up hope.
P.S. Take a benzo daily for a few years, feel some tolerance withdrawals then just stop taking them as you suggest. See what happens. If you are one of the many unlucky ones you`ll think you died and went to hell, literally, and you may see several seasons change in that shape.
Posted by Mr.Scott on April 28, 2005, at 16:50:09
In reply to Re: to play the devil`s advocate, posted by banga on April 25, 2005, at 20:00:50
So I saw my recently found doctor today. I explained my concerns about taking stims and benzos and how I thought it wasn't working and possibly hurting me.
He's US renound too by the way. He said get a good psychotherapist and he recommended 3. Then he said take as much adderall and ativan or clonazepam as you feel you need so long as it doesn't cause side effects (in addition to my pinch of zoloft). He said most people find a place where tolerance goes away and they stabilize. And if not he'll get me off the meds whether its inpatient or outpatient. And we can try something new.
I trust this guy in the field and as a person, but I'm still conflicted. The first thing I said when I walked in was that the good news is that my insurance will cover 45 days inpatient each year at virtually any hospital in the country including McLean's.
What do you think?
Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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