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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Alix on April 3, 2002, at 11:09:09
Hi –
Dr. Kramer, any thoughts? - I’m new here and wonder if anyone has any knowledge or experience with my current situation. I have been taking 15mg of Remeron daily for a little over two years now for treatment of anxiety. I have tried to go off of it unsuccessfully three separate times now. The first time, under advise of my pdoc, I reduced my dosage to 7.5mg daily for two weeks then stopped altogether. The first week was ok, then progressively got worse – almost no sleep, headaches, nausea, muscle tension, until I really was having a difficult time functioning and started back on the Remeron. I think I lasted about 4 weeks. The second time I followed the same two-week reduction in dose then quit, only at the same time I was taking Serzone. My reaction was essentially the same and I started the Remeron again and dropped the Serzone. This last time I reduced my dosage over a much longer period of time. I spent two months at 7.5mg and one month at about 3.75mg daily and felt good at both levels. When I quit altogether, I seemed to have the same mostly physical symptoms, only not as pronounced as the last two times I tried to quit. I should mention that those physical symptoms are the same that I experience with my anxiety. I am quite confused as to whether these symptoms are just the same old anxiety or are actually withdrawal from the Remeron. Anyone else have a similar experience or have any thoughts on the subject? I guess I should mention that the main reason I would like to get off the Remeron is due to the 30lbs I have gained. Thanks in advance.
Posted by optimistic on April 3, 2002, at 15:35:38
In reply to Dr. Kramer - Remeron withdrawal?, posted by Alix on April 3, 2002, at 11:09:09
> Hi –
>
> Dr. Kramer, any thoughts? - I’m new here and wonder if anyone has any knowledge or experience with my current situation. I have been taking 15mg of Remeron daily for a little over two years now for treatment of anxiety. I have tried to go off of it unsuccessfully three separate times now. The first time, under advise of my pdoc, I reduced my dosage to 7.5mg daily for two weeks then stopped altogether. The first week was ok, then progressively got worse – almost no sleep, headaches, nausea, muscle tension, until I really was having a difficult time functioning and started back on the Remeron. I think I lasted about 4 weeks. The second time I followed the same two-week reduction in dose then quit, only at the same time I was taking Serzone. My reaction was essentially the same and I started the Remeron again and dropped the Serzone. This last time I reduced my dosage over a much longer period of time. I spent two months at 7.5mg and one month at about 3.75mg daily and felt good at both levels. When I quit altogether, I seemed to have the same mostly physical symptoms, only not as pronounced as the last two times I tried to quit. I should mention that those physical symptoms are the same that I experience with my anxiety. I am quite confused as to whether these symptoms are just the same old anxiety or are actually withdrawal from the Remeron. Anyone else have a similar experience or have any thoughts on the subject? I guess I should mention that the main reason I would like to get off the Remeron is due to the 30lbs I have gained. Thanks in advance.>>
My guess would be that if you go back on the Remeron and the symptoms abate relatively quickly then it would be from withdrawl.....I think it would take longer for it to be effective from a recurrence of your original symptoms. Just my opinion.
Posted by Dr. Kramer on April 4, 2002, at 13:28:11
In reply to Dr. Kramer - Remeron withdrawal?, posted by Alix on April 3, 2002, at 11:09:09
You asked the key question, the original anxiety vs. drug withdrawal, and the answer is I don't know, but my guess is anxiety. Your symptoms sound like it, mirtazapine withdrawal is very rare (but not weight gain!), and anxiety usually comes back when meds are withdrawn. I'd talk to your doc about starting a new anxiety drug that's more weight neutral.
Be well.
Posted by lolo2marco on January 25, 2005, at 5:21:46
In reply to Dr. Kramer - Remeron withdrawal?, posted by Alix on April 3, 2002, at 11:09:09
there is such a thing as remeron withdrawal and it is severe. It has taken me 8 months to fully get back to normal after trying to stop this drug 3 times. I had never had issues with insomnia, but once I stopped taking the remeron, I stopped sleeping more than 4 hours a night - I was told that it's because of the over-sedating effects of remeron and the stimulation of your adrenal glands; apparently, once you've stopped the drug, your body needs large amounts of time to get back into its own rythmn again. this drug was the worst thing i ever did to myself and i would caution anyone to not take it. a safer drug, because of the long half-life, which equates to a built-in tapering system, is prozac. beware - as you withdraw from remeron, people will tell you that its your "old" symtoms reappearing - no it's not! it's the symptoms of withdrawing from this evil drug and you can get through it! i tried every sleeping pill from ambien to trazadone to help with my sleep, but never took more than a couple dosages - i figured that eventually, if i stopped worrying about it, my body would get back on track on its own, which is exactly what happened. as far as the anxiety - cognitive therapy works wonders - there is a great book out called "Don't Panic" by R. Reid Wilson - it's changed my thinking and erased my panic and anxiety. don't believe most docs, who are in the back pockets of the pharmaceutical companies anyway, when they push drugs on you...i learned my lesson but almost lost my mind in the process of stopping remeron.
Posted by ed_uk on January 25, 2005, at 8:54:38
In reply to Re: Dr. Kramer - Remeron withdrawal?, posted by lolo2marco on January 25, 2005, at 5:21:46
Hello,
How did you get off Remeron eventually? Did you do a slow taper? Did you have any other withdrawal symptoms apart from insomnia?
Ed.
Posted by ravenstorm on January 25, 2005, at 12:12:24
In reply to Re: Remeron withdrawal? » lolo2marco, posted by ed_uk on January 25, 2005, at 8:54:38
Remeron withdrawal is NOT rare! On another site I post to people are definitely having problems trying to stop taking this drug. A lot of people who take remeron are on SSRIs as well and that seems to help them stop the remeron without side effects. Also, it totally depends on how you process this med. It has a wide ranging half life of anywhere from 20 hours to 60hours (or something like that). Obviously, if you are one of the lucky ones who processes it with the longer half life, of course you are not going to have many problems. If you process at 20 hours that is going to be a lot rougher ride.
The remeron pills are also really hard to split evenly and there is no liquid form (AT least paxil pills snapped evenly in half and there was a liquid.) Also, the smalles dosage is 15mg. Earlier this fall I tried to halve my dosage and was sick within four days (ie severe nausea and dizziness). I am going to contact a compounding pharmacy about dropping mg by mg. (Just this past week I tried an everyother day thing and that just wasn't helpful at all)
The worst thing, is that I am now trapped on a drug that severley affects my blood sugar levels, so every 2 hours my blood sugar drops and a ton of adrenaline gets dumped in my blood stream which makes my anxiety worse. I also get worse if I try to exercise on this drug, which is sooooooooo frustrating I can't tell you. Exercise has always helped my anxiety and depression. My doctor has also indicated that my hormones are all out of wack, which she believes is happening due to overworked adrenal glands due to the blood sugar fluctutations. This drug just sucks.
This is actually worse than paxil withdrawal for me. At least with paxil I didn't get ill until I stopped it alltogether, and I had to titrate the last 2mg in less than .5mg liquid to get off of it.
Sorry for the rant, just wish my pdoc had listened when I said that I can try a drug for four to six weeks but if it doesn't work or has intolerable side effects I have to stop it immediately or I'll go through withdrawal (except for prozac and wellbutrin).
Posted by ed_uk on January 25, 2005, at 12:40:45
In reply to Re: Remeron withdrawal?, posted by ravenstorm on January 25, 2005, at 12:12:24
Generic liquid mirtazapine is available in the UK. It is manufactured by Rosemont. It contains 15mg/ml so you would need to use a 1ml oral syringe to measure out small doses.
Do you have the Orodispersible (SolTab) mirtazapine tablets where you live? If you do, you could always try dissolving one in a specific amount of water in a measuring cylinder and drinking part of it to get a small dose.
Ed.
Posted by lolo2marco on January 25, 2005, at 15:22:22
In reply to Re: Remeron withdrawal?, posted by ravenstorm on January 25, 2005, at 12:12:24
agree with you completely - its a wicked drug and should not be prescribed. took me forever to heal from this. i was recently contacted re; a class action lawsuit re; the horrible withdrawal symptoms that are not communicated fully to patients...i am considering it.
Posted by lolo2marco on January 25, 2005, at 15:23:30
In reply to Re: Remeron withdrawal? » lolo2marco, posted by ed_uk on January 25, 2005, at 8:54:38
> Hello,
>
> How did you get off Remeron eventually? Did you do a slow taper? Did you have any other withdrawal symptoms apart from insomnia?
>
> Ed.
Hi Ed-
It was a nightmare, to be honest, but well worth the trouble. I tapered off slowly for months. From 30 to 15mg for a month or so, then down to 7.5 for a month or two, then to 3.75 for a month or two. Splitting the 3.75 down in half made the fatigue too intense (Remeron has an inverse relationship with dosage and side effects), so I went down to about 2 mg for a long time. When I stopped, all was well for 5-7 days, then I felt as if I was hit by the worse flu, headache, anxiety, crying, NO sleep whatsoever. It was awful. Felt like I was shot full of adrenaline. I talked with my doctor who said, of course, that it was rebound anxiety, etc. But I had never been such a mess BEFORE the remeron, I wondered how I could be so substantially worse? I researched everything and found that I just had to wait it out. The anxiety and flu feeling went away after 2 months or so, but the sleep issue lasted 8 months (prior to remeron I had NEVER had insomnia). I am glad I perservered because I feel better now than I ever did on the remeron. I feel that it is an evil drug and they docs are uneducated/uninformed as to the horrible withdrawal of this drug, not only that, but it changes your adrenal glands which takes some time to get back on track. My best advice is to do as long of a taper as you can, be positive and find a good friend who, in times of weakness with wanting to go back on remeron, will tell you "no way in hell!" you can do this, Ed!
Posted by bethesdabob on January 25, 2005, at 18:33:12
In reply to Re: Remeron withdrawal?, posted by lolo2marco on January 25, 2005, at 15:23:30
Hi eduk
My wife died in 12/03 from a seizure disorder, she was an epileptic (had seizures since she was 12) and was bipolar, she took a cocktail of more than 12 drugs, including 90 mgs of remeron soltab and 600 mgs of effexor xr.
Am wondering if remeron in high doses is proconvulsant, and whether such a high dosage of remeron and effexor xr and having her brain marinate in serotonin might have shortcircuited
her mental circuitry allowing her to seize and die.Wife's medical records are still being examined, nine months - do these things normally drag out this long ?
Posted by ravenstorm on January 25, 2005, at 20:35:48
In reply to Re: Remeron withdrawal? » ravenstorm, posted by ed_uk on January 25, 2005, at 12:40:45
Why does the UK have a liquid and the U.S. doesn't?????????????
I am really unhappy to hear about all this. I almost ended up hospitalized going off paxil at the slowest titration possible. Was still screwed up seven months post paxil. I am so p'od about this. At least when I was stuck on 2mg of paxil it wasn't harming me. This drug is harming me and I just can't stop taking it.
Does Canada have the liquid form?
Posted by ravenstorm on January 25, 2005, at 20:42:27
In reply to Do you take Remeron in combo wt. anything ?, posted by bethesdabob on January 25, 2005, at 18:33:12
Is it available in the U.S.?? Or, how could I get it from the U.K.?? Anyone got any contact information for Rosemont?
Posted by ed_uk on January 26, 2005, at 13:47:23
In reply to Re can you get the liquid remeron in the U.S.????, posted by ravenstorm on January 25, 2005, at 20:42:27
Rosemont, UK
Rosemont Pharmaceuticals Ltd
Rosemont House
Yorkdale Industrial Park
Braithwaite St
Leeds
West Yorkshire
LS11 9XE
UK
Telephone: +44 (0) 113 244 1999
Fax: +44 (0) 113 246 0738Rosemont, USA
Rosemont Pharmaceutical Corp.
301 South Cherokee St
Denver
CO 80223
USA
Telephone: +1 303 733 7207
Rosemont Website...
http://www.rosemontpharma.com/indexT.asp
Remember, Rosemont make a generic mirtazapine liquid. They do not make Remeron.Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on January 26, 2005, at 13:49:50
In reply to Re: Contact Rosemont » ravenstorm, posted by ed_uk on January 26, 2005, at 13:47:23
Email Rosemont UK....
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on January 26, 2005, at 13:54:00
In reply to Do you take Remeron in combo wt. anything ?, posted by bethesdabob on January 25, 2005, at 18:33:12
Hello,
>Am wondering if remeron in high doses is proconvulsant....
I'm really not sure whether it is. Seizures have been reported as a possible side effect but it is unclear whether they were actually caused by the mirtazapine. I think the high dose of Effexor is more likely to have been responsible.
>Wife's medical records are still being examined, nine months - do these things normally drag out this long ?
I honestly don't know, although I would expect that they do.
I am sorry for your loss,
Ed.
Posted by Lushkins on January 26, 2005, at 14:50:02
In reply to Re: Dr. Kramer - Remeron withdrawal?, posted by lolo2marco on January 25, 2005, at 5:21:46
I currently withdrawing from remeron myself, and am experiencing the insomnia that you talked about. I went down from 30mg to 22.5mg and I felt really good/calm etc. So I decided to go down to 15mg as I thought things would get really good. I didn't feel depressed or anything but just couldn't sleep. So I decided to take 30mg and got a little sleep, but now I feel energized, irritable and very angry (like before), So it appears that this insomnia thing is not so uncommon. My Doc said it would be comparatively easy to get, well that doesn't appear to be the case does it? I just wish I could get of this as I think things will be better for me. Oh well, hope it turns out OK for you.
lushkins
Posted by ravenstorm on January 27, 2005, at 8:33:33
In reply to Re: Dr. Kramer - Remeron withdrawal?, posted by Lushkins on January 26, 2005, at 14:50:02
Thanks ed. I'll contact them but I'm probably out of luck. I'm on 15mg mirtazapine and am always angry, irritable, have terrible anxiety, much of which comes from the horrible sugar lows I experience from the med and some of it is from the med itself. When I try to cut the dose I get tired, dizzy and nauseas. Crap. At least if I had gotten stuck on lexapro it probably would have worked, unlike this stuff.
Thanks again for the contact info.
I feel for everybody going through this!
Posted by violetskyye on April 21, 2005, at 0:01:20
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron, posted by ravenstorm on January 27, 2005, at 8:33:33
I was on 15 mg Remeron for 18 months, but was sick of sleeping 18 hours a day, so I went off it slowly. While I've had some anxiety, hyperventilating and nausea, it seems to be abating after about 2 weeks off the drug. I was taking Wellbutrin in the AM [still am], and Remeron at night.
I think the best thing is to increase exercise. I have also done some relaxation tapes, which have helped a lot. Just hang in there, and don't give up. There's no law that says we have to always be on medication. Unless someone is severely depressed and/or suicidal, I feel it's a good idea to go medication-free for periods of time.
Posted by johnnyj on December 5, 2005, at 17:12:57
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron, posted by violetskyye on April 21, 2005, at 0:01:20
Has anybody out there sucessfully withdrawan from remeron.
I went from 15mg to 7.5 and after a month went from 7.5 to 3.5 for 3 days and then stopped. I lasted 13 days and had to go back on the 7.5. Nausea, insomnia, and just plain tired. My head tension was terrible too along with headaches and pounding chest.
Posted by violetskyye on December 5, 2005, at 19:01:15
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates? » violetskyye, posted by johnnyj on December 5, 2005, at 17:12:57
> Has anybody out there sucessfully withdrawan from remeron.
>
> I went from 15mg to 7.5 and after a month went from 7.5 to 3.5 for 3 days and then stopped. I lasted 13 days and had to go back on the 7.5. Nausea, insomnia, and just plain tired. My head tension was terrible too along with headaches and pounding chest.I got off it [finally] about a month ago. I also had constant nausea, insomnia, headache and anxiety. [I also went from 15 mg for 2 years to 7.5 for a week or two to none].
The good news is, I started to feel better after about 3 and 1/2 weeks, and feel so much better now. Hang in there. It takes the brain and body a while to adjust. I lost 5 pounds almost immediately of the 8 I gained while on Remeron.
Looking back now, I feel so much better off it than I did while on it. I was sluggish and slow-brained [bad traits for a trial lawyer.]
So, just hang in there. It'll pass. :-)
Posted by Alex007 on December 11, 2005, at 3:52:16
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by violetskyye on December 5, 2005, at 19:01:15
Jonnyj, I cannot use the system yet. I am on the Remeron, just a "shaving" of the 15mg pill at evenings. sttill very drowsy until noon next day, have to take care of my kid, 2ys old, its hard when you are drowsy.
however, it does work to cut my anxiety, had to go for remeron after years of anxyolitics/Lexaurin bromazepam.
Interested to learn, if you managed to stay off all drugs thanks
Posted by violetskyye on December 13, 2005, at 23:35:02
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates? » violetskyye, posted by johnnyj on December 5, 2005, at 17:12:57
Well, I may have spoken too soon, because after doing very well off all drugs for about a month, I am having a great deal of anxiety, but have decided not to go back on the Remeron. The fatigue and weight gain just were not worth it.
Overall, it's something I can cope with for the time being, and nowhere near as severe as the anxiety that first put me on the medication.
I did not realize how will Remeron worked for insomnia until I went off it, because now it is very hard to stay asleep for 8 hours; and I realize that problem really had almost gone away while on the meds.
I am going to try a cognitive program at UCLA here in Los Angeles for panic and anxiety, and will try exercise and meditation, because I really don't want to be on medication for the rest of my life. I'll keep you all posted.
Oh, and I've lost almost 10 pounds of the 12 I gained when I went on the meds. If anything, I've swung the other way, and become a bit anorexic, but hopefully, that, too, will be temporary.
Posted by johnnyj on January 8, 2006, at 19:15:14
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by violetskyye on December 5, 2005, at 19:01:15
thank you for the reply. Unfortunatley, I had to go out of town and went back on 7.5-mg and finally got some sleep. But, my head felt soo heavy and I felt more depressed for about 2.5 weeks. I felt worse going back on!
I have something important going on so I need to wait until spring to go off again. I did switch from cutting the sol-tabs in half to cutting the generic and had withdrawal from that for about a week.
I just need to make low dose tapers and gut it out.
johnny
Posted by musky on February 22, 2006, at 19:51:26
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by violetskyye on December 5, 2005, at 19:01:15
hey just reading the post of getting off remeron sucessfully.
Well I am in the same boat and I think the most important thing is to taper very very slowly.
I have taken almost 2yrs to taper!! I was on 45mg and was horrible daydreams,jerking, agitation., wt. gain (45lbs), and have never ever felt these things in my life...
I started tapering by 10%(ie 4.5mg less each time). I would stay on that dose for 2-3months , then got to the next. I know this sounds crazy but I have been seeing an acupucturist that gets people off their meds. He strongly recommended this way and then to detox.
Right now i have been on the smallest size I can possibly take( about 2mg). it may sound silly but I still am getting withdrawl (physical and emotional)but not as strong.. I have had periods of derealization stuff when withdrawing also. Like I said this has never been issue with me.
I have never been on any antideprressant or anxiety meds before in my whole life until my dr. started to pill feed me for a chronic muscle tension in the neck/dizzyness.
Well I can tell you that my own personal experience has been pure hell with this medication.
It never got rid of the so called chemical imbalance causing anxiety /depression that they "claimed" I had.. ya right...
Well so far I am hanging in... like you say you must use every tool handy to get through
People out there have to know what these drugs do to the brain biochemistry.. and when you get side effects that means that your body is telling you IT IS NOT RIGHT!!!
I hope to be clean in another 2 months if all goes well and i know from my own research and talking to some others that have been on antidepressants that it may take the body up to 2yrs to feel well... depending how long you were on it. Remeron never made me feel good inside, just empty numb and freaky fantasys...
I hope they ban all these drugs.
If you are so depressed then get a support network, and scream it out or whatever til it passes ... hang on and your body will heal. listen to your body and it will tell you what to do...the body was made to heal not be drugged up , especially when it comes to mood altering drugs..
sorry for the long winded letter
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2006, at 13:41:49
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on February 22, 2006, at 19:51:26
> hey just reading the post of getting off remeron sucessfully.
Welcome! And sorry if it's confusing here, but I'd now like to redirect this thread to Psycho-Babble Withdrawal. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20060117/msgs/613132.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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