![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by Sebastian on January 21, 2005, at 22:02:57
In reply to Re: Feeling like somebody is pushing me (what is this), posted by linkadge on January 21, 2005, at 21:45:57
I'm only 28 and I feel like I'm dying. No life no freinds, no fun, no nothing. Just pills. I'm cutting down. Maybe I will live again. Live again I must be dead.
Posted by mmcconathy on January 21, 2005, at 22:36:48
In reply to Re: Feeling like somebody is pushing me (what is this), posted by Sebastian on January 21, 2005, at 22:02:57
Im 17, have no friends either. My main problem is dissociative periods.
Lets go dig our graves.
Anyways, im trying to get another perception of life.
Misery.
Matt
Posted by justyourlaugh on January 22, 2005, at 0:33:29
In reply to Re: Feeling like somebody is pushing me (what is this), posted by linkadge on January 21, 2005, at 21:45:57
i think it is so important that you know your perceptions are off..
it has taken me years and years to notice..
i could never understand why people had such gossip to spead about me..could never see myself as "ill"..
can we go back to ignorance?
can we pass each other in zellers?
jyl.
Posted by linkadge on January 22, 2005, at 10:38:19
In reply to sweet link.., posted by justyourlaugh on January 22, 2005, at 0:33:29
I just hate those feelings of death, of degeneration. Fears of irriversably loosing something that I can never gain back.
I know that now, I feel much worse pysically, emotionally, spiritualy, and cognitivly than I ever did in the past.
I have taken so many medications and supplements I know that much of what I am going through is irriversable.
I keep repeating the same old patterns over and over again, trying to derive some pleasure from them. I fear that If I can't enjoy what I loved the most, what defined me in the past, then I could never enjoy again.
Linkadge
Posted by mcp on January 22, 2005, at 11:27:34
In reply to Re: sweet link.., posted by linkadge on January 22, 2005, at 10:38:19
"I have taken so many medications and supplements I know that much of what I am going through is irriversable."
Part of what you say is true, but that is the part that deals with the fac that these medications cause severe damage to our central nervous systems. The part where you are wrong is continually trying to find the answer from the very medications that have put you in this spot to begin with. Linkadge, I have read many of your posts since I have been here. My heart goes out to you. If you have a desire for trying this medication free then send me an email at xxx. I think I may be able to point you in the right direction. If not, good luck. I have yet to find someone who has found true, substantial, long-term healing from these medications and getting off them, but doing it the correct way, has saved my life. God bless
> I just hate those feelings of death, of degeneration. Fears of irriversably loosing something that I can never gain back.
>
> I know that now, I feel much worse pysically, emotionally, spiritualy, and cognitivly than I ever did in the past.
>
> I have taken so many medications and supplements I know that much of what I am going through is irriversable.
>
> I keep repeating the same old patterns over and over again, trying to derive some pleasure from them. I fear that If I can't enjoy what I loved the most, what defined me in the past, then I could never enjoy again.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
Posted by bimini on January 22, 2005, at 16:11:20
In reply to Re: Feeling like somebody is pushing me (what is this), posted by linkadge on January 21, 2005, at 21:45:57
> Everything I see is out of proprortion. Things pop out at me. Distances are all distorted. Shapes that I know are square look all skewed. I'm only 21 and I feel like I'm dying.
> LinkadgeYes, stepping off a curb is maybe one inch or one foot. Pothole? what pothole? -------Crack/crunch!!! All I do is fall over and into things. I have made good progress undergoing vision therapy for 10 months. I could not count accurately anything because nothing stayed put long enough, perfectly stationary stuff like gas meters and trees. Also distant things don't seem to look smaller than things near, so can't tell what is closer. Everything goes weird trying to understand. Visual tests showed each eye was looking independently, not cooperating with each other and focusing. I tried prism lenses, which work for some, not for me. Therapy improved depth perception which helped balance problems a lot. But I still have gaps of paused visual comprehension, things pop up out of nowhere all the time. I know from therapy that each eye alternated processing, this made the wobble look until the eye that takes over adjusts. You can't notice this looking with both eyes and the brain fills in the blanks fast enough ...normally. I'm still learning how to see now that I've learned walking.
bimini
Posted by rod on January 22, 2005, at 16:22:34
In reply to Re: Take~~ an anti-psychotic~~~~ (nm) » linkadge, posted by Sebastian on January 21, 2005, at 17:41:51
I also bet psychotic symptoms.
When a doc tried to do a quick diagnosis and to look for psychotic symptoms they asked things like: Do you sometimes feel you are moving while staying still? How are the colors? are they brighter tahn usual. Do you something have the feeling somthing, god for example, is trying to tell you something? Do you sometimes feel there are like hidden messages, only addressed to you? etc. etc.And as far as I know, some things sound like you... I dont want to allege that you are psychotic.
Just my 2 (or 3 :-) ) cents.Roland
Posted by linkadge on January 22, 2005, at 16:51:41
In reply to Linkadge, posted by mcp on January 22, 2005, at 11:27:34
Well, generally I would take your advice, however I am really not putting all that much faith in these medications. They are only one tool in the chest for me. I have resisted Zoloft increases posed by my docotors.
For instance, most people don't know that I also do the following to help treat my depression.
1) Jog 1.5 hours a day (every single day) to
help combat anxiety and to help me sleep.
(if you don't believe me I invite you to
Waterloo Ontario, Canada to join me !!)2) Eat the best diet possable.
Ample calories, fat, tryptophan rich foods
Multivitamin, Omega 3 etc.
Plenty of water,
Periodic fasting.3) Do things I enjoy like:
Listening to classical music.
Playing the piano.
Praying (daily)
Reading the bible
Going to church.4) Maintaining meaningful reationships.
5) Counselling
The list goes on. I think many come to this board and assume we are all just a bunch of lazy people who want to sit on the couch and pop pills.I have been labled manic- because of my almost frantic battle to beat this depression. What am I looking for you ask? The ability to look in the mirror at the end of the day, and say "I want to live!"
I have been to the hospital many times because of stopping my medications. I have weaned, tapered and tried it every which way possible. I don't mean to be condescening, but I have a LONG history of depression and suicide attempts in my family. If you are seeing it in a different angle that I have approached, then please share it with all of us.This is not a game for me it is a daily battle. I just come here for hope, even if they are just small whimsicle moments.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on January 22, 2005, at 16:54:52
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by linkadge on January 22, 2005, at 16:51:41
Posted by linkadge on January 22, 2005, at 17:09:24
In reply to Re: Take~~ an anti-psychotic~~~~, posted by rod on January 22, 2005, at 16:22:34
I have been on antipsychotics before. Risperdal, olanzapine, zyprexa, and melleral.
They don't really do much more than make me feel really apathetic, and walk like a pigeon.
My problem right now is just a generall screwed upness. Residual effects from the rTMS, and over 30 meds I have tried. I think.
I do experience some of the symptoms you wrote, some of the time, but I really don't think I am psychotic. I mean, I suppose I could be but I don't really see improvement with antipsychotics, except perhaps a bit better sleep.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on January 22, 2005, at 17:32:00
In reply to Re: Take~~ an anti-psychotic~~~~, posted by linkadge on January 22, 2005, at 17:09:24
Well, at least you're body is not screwed up- I can't even run for 1.5 seconds, 1.5 hours would be out of the question.
Ed.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 22, 2005, at 18:10:55
In reply to Linkadge, posted by mcp on January 22, 2005, at 11:27:34
> If you have a desire for trying this medication free then send me an email at xxx.
Please do not offer medication directly to others here.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by emme on January 22, 2005, at 19:25:19
In reply to Re: offering medication to others » mcp, posted by Dr. Bob on January 22, 2005, at 18:10:55
> > If you have a desire for trying this medication free then send me an email at xxx.
>
> Please do not offer medication directly to others here.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobI may be wrong but i suspect mcp meant "medication-free", as in trying to make do without medication.
Posted by mcp on January 23, 2005, at 9:34:20
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by linkadge on January 22, 2005, at 16:51:41
Linkadge, two quick points.
It sounds like you are doing a lot of good things in the proactive area of keeping things at bay. Everything looked good to me, although I am certainly no expert. I would say I noticed you mentioned tryptophan rich foods. I know when I first came off meds I did the same thing as well as take supplements that encouraged the production of serotonin. It did nothing but make me worse. It wasn't that my body didn't have enough serotonin, it was that the receptors had been damaged by the 'medications' so excess serotonin only left my brain flummoxed as to what to do with it.
Secondly, my original point was that it wasn't until I came to the point that I realized that drugs weren't the answer, but part of the problem that I started to feel better. I have read many of your posts about different meds and supplements you have tried as well as other measures. THis is where I am gonna offend some people, but if that is the way it has to be. I found that sites like this are really quite sad. My heart goes out to each and every person here searching for an answer to what plagues us. If someone finds it with medication then more power to you, but it is rare and usually fleeting. Usually the opposite happens and the meds create more problems than they solve, at least in the long run. I have run across some people that really know this stuff and I was going to point you in their direction if getting off meds is something you wanted to explore. ONce again, here is my email. Hopefully, they won't delete it. Email me if you'd like a link mcpark@socal.rr.com
As always, God bless
> Well, generally I would take your advice, however I am really not putting all that much faith in these medications. They are only one tool in the chest for me. I have resisted Zoloft increases posed by my docotors.
>
> For instance, most people don't know that I also do the following to help treat my depression.
>
> 1) Jog 1.5 hours a day (every single day) to
> help combat anxiety and to help me sleep.
> (if you don't believe me I invite you to
> Waterloo Ontario, Canada to join me !!)
>
> 2) Eat the best diet possable.
> Ample calories, fat, tryptophan rich foods
> Multivitamin, Omega 3 etc.
> Plenty of water,
> Periodic fasting.
>
> 3) Do things I enjoy like:
> Listening to classical music.
> Playing the piano.
> Praying (daily)
> Reading the bible
> Going to church.
>
> 4) Maintaining meaningful reationships.
>
> 5) Counselling
>
>
> The list goes on. I think many come to this board and assume we are all just a bunch of lazy people who want to sit on the couch and pop pills.
>
> I have been labled manic- because of my almost frantic battle to beat this depression. What am I looking for you ask? The ability to look in the mirror at the end of the day, and say "I want to live!"
>
>
> I have been to the hospital many times because of stopping my medications. I have weaned, tapered and tried it every which way possible. I don't mean to be condescening, but I have a LONG history of depression and suicide attempts in my family. If you are seeing it in a different angle that I have approached, then please share it with all of us.
>
> This is not a game for me it is a daily battle. I just come here for hope, even if they are just small whimsicle moments.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by emme on January 23, 2005, at 10:34:12
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by mcp on January 23, 2005, at 9:34:20
> I found that sites like this are really quite sad. .... If someone finds it with medication then more power to you, but it is rare and usually fleeting.
Don't forget that you are seeing a skewed population here. The people who have had success with their medication are less likely to post on the internet.
Posted by mike13 on January 23, 2005, at 13:08:08
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by mcp on January 23, 2005, at 9:34:20
> Usually the opposite happens and the meds >create more problems than they solve,
You can really say that again.. taking meds was the worst mistake in my life.. now many of the problems I experience now are irreversible.. initially I was attempting to treat something that WAS REVERSIBLE..
Posted by linkadge on January 23, 2005, at 21:44:33
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by mike13 on January 23, 2005, at 13:08:08
"It wasn't that my body didn't have enough serotonin, it was that the receptors had been damaged by the 'medications' so excess serotonin only left my brain flummoxed as to what to do with it."
This is a completely unprovable statement. Unless you have had a post-mortem study of your neural tissue, you don't know that your receptors have been dammaged or not.Depression causes pessimism. Chronic unremitted depression causes more pessimism. It seems to me that if your depression was currently under control you would have no need to be seeking out pages like this.
Aristotle noticed that when people in the past were depressed they often rolled around on the ground crying confessing this sin or that, wondering which God they may have offended. When my uncle was depressed, he thought he had committed the "unforgivable sin" and was destined to an eternal hell.
Our brain cannot sit around and accept such an excrutiating physical pain. It needs a reason.
It needs something to blame that horrable darkness on.In your case, you have blamed something different entirely.
I've been off medications for long periods of time. I wait, and wait and cry out and cry out louder, begging God for my mood to improve, for the stalemate to break, and the anger to go. But it doesn't. It simply "does not" and "will not" improve on its own.
I agree that the meds are not the entire answer. I agree that they to not make my life a rosey dance. But they do make it bearable.
How many more times do I have to learn my lesson? How many more times do I need to go to the hospital in an ambulance ??
We do know that depression itself causes hippocampal shrinkage and atrophy. The longer somebody is depressed the more atophy there is. Somtimes up to 20% of the hippocampus is lost to depression and anxiety.
Some of the largest and most unbiased studies done to lead to the conclusion that these medications (while not making us all eternally happy), can delay relapse, prevent recuurances, and more importantly protect the brain.
I am not perfect, and I'd like to improve, but I have been a lot worse.
Depression itself is neurodegenerative.
I can take my meds and maybe loose a few brain cells, or not take anything and go back to sitting in the courner for "days at a time",
waiting for death.Remission is unlikely, but for me an improvement is evident with medication. I'm not the type of person that you think I am.
Please, I don't mean to offend, but I've heard from hundreds who propose to have the answer to depression, but few ideas have really added up.
If you have something I have not considered, then please spill the beans!
Linkadge
Posted by mcp on January 24, 2005, at 9:41:38
In reply to Ok - lets gain some perspective, posted by linkadge on January 23, 2005, at 21:44:33
Just like it is unprovable that depression is related to mere chemistry issues. I, as well as many others, have problems assimilating serotonin enhancing supplements after being on the meds. The conclusion I and others have come to is that it is because the receptors are damaged.
I come here not because I am depressed, but hopefully to help people from making the same mistakes I did. I certainly don't come here because I am depressed and if I were this is the last place I would venture to merely because most here feel the answers are based in medication, which is a fallacy.
I asked you to email me if interested. I am not gonna post the link here on this site. It is only for people who are genuine in their interests to get off meds. YOu obviously are not. I wish you God's speed and best of luck in your journey.
>
> "It wasn't that my body didn't have enough serotonin, it was that the receptors had been damaged by the 'medications' so excess serotonin only left my brain flummoxed as to what to do with it."
>
>
> This is a completely unprovable statement. Unless you have had a post-mortem study of your neural tissue, you don't know that your receptors have been dammaged or not.
>
> Depression causes pessimism. Chronic unremitted depression causes more pessimism. It seems to me that if your depression was currently under control you would have no need to be seeking out pages like this.
>
> Aristotle noticed that when people in the past were depressed they often rolled around on the ground crying confessing this sin or that, wondering which God they may have offended. When my uncle was depressed, he thought he had committed the "unforgivable sin" and was destined to an eternal hell.
>
> Our brain cannot sit around and accept such an excrutiating physical pain. It needs a reason.
> It needs something to blame that horrable darkness on.
>
> In your case, you have blamed something different entirely.
>
> I've been off medications for long periods of time. I wait, and wait and cry out and cry out louder, begging God for my mood to improve, for the stalemate to break, and the anger to go. But it doesn't. It simply "does not" and "will not" improve on its own.
>
> I agree that the meds are not the entire answer. I agree that they to not make my life a rosey dance. But they do make it bearable.
>
> How many more times do I have to learn my lesson? How many more times do I need to go to the hospital in an ambulance ??
>
> We do know that depression itself causes hippocampal shrinkage and atrophy. The longer somebody is depressed the more atophy there is. Somtimes up to 20% of the hippocampus is lost to depression and anxiety.
>
> Some of the largest and most unbiased studies done to lead to the conclusion that these medications (while not making us all eternally happy), can delay relapse, prevent recuurances, and more importantly protect the brain.
>
> I am not perfect, and I'd like to improve, but I have been a lot worse.
>
> Depression itself is neurodegenerative.
>
> I can take my meds and maybe loose a few brain cells, or not take anything and go back to sitting in the courner for "days at a time",
> waiting for death.
>
> Remission is unlikely, but for me an improvement is evident with medication. I'm not the type of person that you think I am.
>
> Please, I don't mean to offend, but I've heard from hundreds who propose to have the answer to depression, but few ideas have really added up.
> If you have something I have not considered, then please spill the beans!
>
>
> Linkadge
>
Posted by linkadge on January 24, 2005, at 13:50:28
In reply to Re: Ok - lets gain some perspective, posted by mcp on January 24, 2005, at 9:41:38
I don't know what you mean by genuine?
The fundimental problem with your logic is that you assume that your experiences with these medications are the "exact" same experiences that others will have.
I'm sure there are some people who have had bad reactions to using insulin for their diabeties. Does this mean that those who benifit from it should not take it? Of course not.
It's just like me going out on a legacy to proove that whatever is helping you, does not really work. I am not going to say that it doesn't, because I believe you when you say that it does, and nobody knows you better than yourself.
It's just like the following page dedicated to magnesium deficiancy.http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html
The genteman who set it up, with all sincerity believes that magnesium deficancy was the reason for his suicidal depression. I don't doubt that it helped him.
Did it help me ? No. I followed all of his suggestions to a T, for a *very* long time too! But again, I ended up in the hospital when I tried to concurrently taper my medications.
Linkadge
Posted by partlycloudy on January 24, 2005, at 20:09:37
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by mcp on January 23, 2005, at 9:34:20
isn't it interesting that you expect this link to be deleted. do we know you by another name around here?
Posted by partlycloudy on January 24, 2005, at 20:10:31
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by partlycloudy on January 24, 2005, at 20:09:37
Posted by TomG on January 24, 2005, at 22:14:30
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by partlycloudy on January 24, 2005, at 20:09:37
I was interested in the link, but he won't email me back.
Posted by mcp on January 24, 2005, at 23:57:08
In reply to Re: Linkadge, posted by partlycloudy on January 24, 2005, at 20:09:37
I guess there are people who post under multiple handles. Sorry, no such luck. Same handle for the past year. Go back about 9 months or so and you will find many posts from me in a state of mind similar to what is the prevailing spirit here. THankfully, I found the truth as it relates to psychotropic meds and the insidious and ghoulish profession known as psychiatry.
Now, I am don't intend in continuing in this thread. It has degenerated to a point to which I no longer wish to participate especially since my initial intention has nothing to do with debating. Best wishes to all.
> isn't it interesting that you expect this link to be deleted. do we know you by another name around here?
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2005, at 8:34:13
In reply to Re: Ok - lets gain some perspective, posted by mcp on January 24, 2005, at 9:41:38
> I am not gonna post the link here on this site. It is only for people who are genuine in their interests to get off meds. YOu obviously are not.
Please don't jump to conclusions about others or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down. The last time you were blocked it was for 3 weeks, so this time it's for 9.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2005, at 20:38:03
In reply to Re: blocked for 9 weeks » mcp, posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2005, at 8:34:13
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050116/msgs/447733.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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