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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 749 to 773 of 1838. Go back in thread:
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 13:21:42
In reply to Re: chocolate, etc. and dogs » headachequeen, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:10:34
> >
> > > <timidly entering the discussion>
> > >
> > Lar,
> > NEVER be timid to join us and THAT IS AN ORDER
> > not a suggestion...
>
> I wasn't part of what was being talked about....
>
> > The other though can have damaging effects... and the theobromine has been found in the skin of the turkey... I think that is why it is called turkey and why it is hard to fly with eagles when one works with turkeys..
>
> Was that a funny?
>
> I'm thinking very literally when I say there are no xanthine alkaloids in turkey or turkey skin (unless the bird was fed them just before its demise).
>
> Lar
Lar if we all wait until we are part of what is being talked about, we are never going to learn from the others in this group and believe me we need the help of all of this group... at least I know I do... and I think Stressed and Bridgey and a number of others would agree...
support needed here <g>as a long time breeder and exhibitor and nutrition researcher and leaner-the-hard-way, I have learned that turkey skin is lethal...
as for the fly with eagles work with turkeys.. it was a funny and a serious mixed... been one of those week...
and welcome to the discussion part of the group...
we are so glad to hear from you....
must mention this new info to Ian and my other vets...
because I have felt so guilty about the turkey skin tidbits I have popped to my 'kids' over the years and I have enough psych problems without the added guilt...
kat
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:25:14
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 12:37:17
> Here's one for you, my dog is on clomipramine/Calmiclam for anxiety and OCD (licking people uncontrollably, spinning, barking) and am wondering if any or you are familiar with it? He is just like the rest of us here, fobias, and whatnot. It does not seem to be working all that well, and our vet is looking into something else. It needs to be approved for animals, because we don't have insurance for our dog!!! -L
As far as approval in dogs go, only two drugs are approved for canine use: Clomicalm (clomipramine) and Anipryl (selegeline). That said, other drugs are fairly commonly used, like Prozac, Ativan, and so on.
http://www.dermapet.com/articles/art-18.html
For example, I've seen really inexpensive veterinary fluoxetine (generic prozac) at:
http://www.lambriarvet.com/Prescription-F.htm
100 X 10 mg caps for $6.50 is a pretty good deal.
Lar
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 13:28:13
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » stressed, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:25:14
> > Here's one for you, my dog is on clomipramine/Calmiclam for anxiety and OCD (licking people uncontrollably, spinning, barking) and am wondering if any or you are familiar with it? He is just like the rest of us here, fobias, and whatnot. It does not seem to be working all that well, and our vet is looking into something else. It needs to be approved for animals, because we don't have insurance for our dog!!! -L
>
> As far as approval in dogs go, only two drugs are approved for canine use: Clomicalm (clomipramine) and Anipryl (selegeline). That said, other drugs are fairly commonly used, like Prozac, Ativan, and so on.
>
> http://www.dermapet.com/articles/art-18.html
>
> For example, I've seen really inexpensive veterinary fluoxetine (generic prozac) at:
>
> http://www.lambriarvet.com/Prescription-F.htm
>
> 100 X 10 mg caps for $6.50 is a pretty good deal.
>
> LarAlso for what it's worth Prozan seems to have the same negative effects on dogs as on people and the same bad press ....
kat
Posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 13:31:44
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » stressed, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:25:14
I agree with Kat, PLEASE enter our discussion. We're all here to help one another, and heavens knows several people on here keep me going. The experiences and advice from everyone here keeps me sane. Thanks very much for the web sites, do you know anything about giving dogs generic prozac? I don't think my vet does, and I wouldn't know how much to give him. He's my baby.....the king of the house. Can't have anything happen to him. Lost a dog three years ago (14), and cannot go through that again for a lonnnngggg time. -L
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:43:01
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » Larry Hoover, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 13:31:44
> I agree with Kat, PLEASE enter our discussion. We're all here to help one another, and heavens knows several people on here keep me going. The experiences and advice from everyone here keeps me sane. Thanks very much for the web sites, do you know anything about giving dogs generic prozac? I don't think my vet does, and I wouldn't know how much to give him. He's my baby.....the king of the house. Can't have anything happen to him. Lost a dog three years ago (14), and cannot go through that again for a lonnnngggg time. -L
The first article I linked to, when I mentioned Prozac, discusses the whole thing, and in the context of licking spinning behaviour. Yes, there are risks from Prozac, the same as you might have. Of course, a dog cannot vocalize just what he's experiencing, but I'm sure he'd be more comfortable if his compulsive behaviour was curtailed. The same "long half-life makes for easier withdrawal" thing that applies to humans applies to dogs, so if you were planning to try an SSRI, prozac is probably your first choice.Lar
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 13:53:28
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » Larry Hoover, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 13:31:44
> I agree with Kat, PLEASE enter our discussion. We're all here to help one another, and heavens knows several people on here keep me going.
Oh, Stressed, you were meant to be here ... and I don't know whether to add a smile, a bitter grin or simply to frown...
as I mentioned earlier I breed dogs... I show them, I train them for other people, actually I train people to better work with their dogs and to understand them; I do agility and tracking with my dogs, and I simply enjoy life because my dogs are in it.
To anyone observing me from moment to moment or day to day I am the most self-controlled strong-willed assertive whatever individual ever.. and that could not be further from the truth...
I never do anything unless I can do it better than anyone else... if there is a possibility that I can not do it well or will look foolish or be laughed at, forget it. I will not risk it. I cannot stand to fail... or even appear to fail, even in my own mind.
My psychologist was amazed and thrilled to bits when my husband talked me into trying to learn to shoot pool.. even more excited when I decided I liked the game... this is something at which I am not the best... and when I am in a cycle of depression or seizures I am not even close to being the worst, but still it is an obsession.
He saw this as a huge break-through for me and thought this was such a major step forward...
having to be the best at whatever I do is such an obsession...
if I can't be the best I do not do it... and that is that. As a result people see only the strong side of me. they do not see the weak parts ... of which there are so many... you people see the weak parts all the time and help to shore up the weaknesses so often...
if only you knew how often..
but that would be to let someone know that I am not the strong successful person I pretend to be...
in this place I have learned more about allowing myself to learn than I have learned from my shrink...
so Lar, we do need your input... we need everyone's input.. it is how we grow...
and you will be surprised how you grow too... trust me... I figured it out...as for losing a dog, Stressed... oh it is hard...
and no one knows that more than I...
I am a trained singer... one of those things I do better than most people <GGG>
when my favourite 'kid' died two years, three months, eight days, fifteen hours and 46 minutes ago, it was more than I could bear.
The strain on my emotions was disastrous... I had a breakdown and ended up under a psychiatrist's care in a hospital for a month... worse, the stress on my vocal cords is still requiring treatment...things are improving... I cry for him only a couple of times a week now... although when I am leaving the orthopaedist's office I still expect to see him walking up the drive to meet me...
not sure when I will remember that he is not going to be there excited to have found me...
happy to greet me and show me how clever he is to have tracked me from home and show my husband that he was able to find me...
when that time comes then it will be time for one of the others to come and meet me... but that time has not yet come...
I play with and work with the others and I love them more than life... but while they are loved equally, he was more equal than others...
and that was when the really heavy duty anti-depressants entered my life...
and when I discovered, thanks to the shrinks, the memories of childhood trauma that I had buried, and now I have to come to terms with all that...
life is so much fun...
but at least I know why I have eating disorders...
it is just a matter of overcoming them....and people here seem to help a lot
kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on October 11, 2004, at 13:54:31
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » stressed, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 13:43:01
I feel guilty because every time we have a ham we give the skin to our dogs. They eat it so fast I am not sure they even taste it!! Of course, this is only an occassional treat, so does this really hurt them? We also give them the bone. Or actually, we have to take turns sneaking it to one or the other because they fight over it. I think if I was a dog I would want to fight over something that yummy too! I LOVE ham! :) I gave up and I am dying my hair back to the color it was 6 months ago. My natural color! I don't like the color it is now. It's turned too dark. What was so funny was that when I went to Walmart today to get the dye my 3 year old was holding the box and said..."Mommy,is there hair in here?" She thought it was a box of hair!!! I about died laughing! Then what made me tear up with laughter was that when I told her it was hair dye she said..." It died?" HAHAHAHAHA!! She thought it was a box of dead hair!! I needed a laugh like that. The innocence of children..
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 16:29:34
In reply to Re: ham skin....and a box of dead hair, posted by bridgey1128 on October 11, 2004, at 13:54:31
> I feel guilty because every time we have a ham we give the skin to our dogs. They eat it so fast I am not sure they even taste it!! Of course, this is only an occassional treat, so does this really hurt them? We also give them the bone.
The issue is the salt and fat that we humans tend to crave. Neither is good for a dog.
If you've ever had wild game, you know that there is precious little fat. Fat really irritates a dog's digestive tract, and can trigger pancreatitis because the fat puts the pancreas into overdrive producing digestive enzymes. The enzymes end up digesting the dog's own pancreas. Salt just puts a dog into physiological stress. The combination can make him sick.
You're right that occasional treats aren't likely to do harm. Just watch that the size of the treat itself is not too large.
Lar
Posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 17:09:09
In reply to Re: ham skin....and a box of dead hair, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 16:29:34
Lar, are you a veteranarian? I'm trying to figure out why you are so well educated about animals?....and Kat, I cried when I read your last post. I can go on and on about my beloved dog, whom I cannot even type his name and not get teary eyed. Isn't that crazy? My friends think I'm abnormal because I watch Dog Shows on TV, pick up strays and take my dog everywhere. We were meant to be here, that's for sure. I will talk to my vet about the prozac, I don't think the clomipramine is working as well as it should. It has curtaled the licking, but spinning is in full swing. I don't know what type of like he had before us, but I think he was abused. He used to cowar when we would come near, and it was heartbreaking. Thanks for the info. -L
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 17:46:45
In reply to Re: ham skin....and a box of dead hair, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 16:29:34
>
> The issue is the salt and fat that we humans tend to crave. Neither is good for a dog.
>
> If you've ever had wild game, you know that there is precious little fat. Fat really irritates a dog's digestive tract, and can trigger pancreatitis because the fat puts the pancreas into overdrive producing digestive enzymes. The enzymes end up digesting the dog's own pancreas. Salt just puts a dog into physiological stress. The combination can make him sick.
>
> You're right that occasional treats aren't likely to do harm. Just watch that the size of the treat itself is not too large.
>
> Larabsolutely and amen... if treats of the ham or other fatty meats are small they should not harm the dog...
in my case, I gave my favourite, remembering all my dogs are equal LOL, a meal of turkey with no skin of course remembering all the warnings from the nutritional experts, and he was so ill just hours later...
as a result he ended up with what I can only remember now, thank you all you idiot doctors who keep cutting back on the anti-seizure meds because you think it is too much never thinking about the agonies that the victim has to live with, as chronic pancreatitis...
and it is vicious...
it almost killed him a couple of times...led me to some research through the agriculture Canada sites and then I found out that what I thought was a diet food was anything but...
all that sodium and fat...
dear heaven...
might as well eat chocolate bars and be done with it sigh....
kat
Posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 17:59:48
In reply to Re: medications, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 17:09:09
> Lar, are you a veteranarian? I'm trying to figure out why you are so well educated about animals?....and Kat, I cried when I read your last post. I can go on and on about my beloved dog, whom I cannot even type his name and not get teary eyed. Isn't that crazy? My friends think I'm abnormal because I watch Dog Shows on TV, pick up strays and take my dog everywhere. We were meant to be here, that's for sure. I will talk to my vet about the prozac, I don't think the clomipramine is working as well as it should. It has curtaled the licking, but spinning is in full swing. I don't know what type of like he had before us, but I think he was abused. He used to cowar when we would come near, and it was heartbreaking. Thanks for the info. -L
Dr. Bob may not think this belongs here, but I disagree... no one can ever understand the emotional and mental disruption that comes from the loss of a pet until he or she has experienced it.
We always make it a point to be available to our puppy buyers when their dogs become older and close to that time or if the dog develops some disease or if some disaster befalls the dog...
we KNOW how hard it is...
at the moment one of our clients is in total stress... they own or owned two dogs from our breeding... one died a while back of cancer and another was stolen a few weeks ago...
the couple is still dealing with the death of the one and now is reeling from the loss of the other...
and seeing a family therapist as the entire family is topsy turvy emotionally...Heavens, I still burst into tears about the dog that died back in 1989... and there was the one that died when I was in high school... and and and...
these are a part of us, a part of our lives, of our families...
I love the ones who tell us it was only a dog, get over it...
what do they know???
I have spent over thirty years doing research and study about my breed, nutrition, training, and all the rest of it..
these dogs go everywhere with me... they sleep in the bedroom with me, they go to work with me, they do therapy work, they are everything to me...
and one or two are more important than others...
I lost one that was slowly becoming the next special boy to me... he turned a year a few weeks ago and died of a heart problem that our vet missed when he was born... not the vet's fault it was not something in our line... and not to be expected and hard to detect... I do not blame him... but just as I am putting a lot of my life back together, I lost my boy...
and I am hardly able to speak again... back to the voice pathologist for more therapy as my vocal cords are swollen and grating on one another from the stress and tension...
I did not end up in hospital this time...
but it is not over yet either...
suddenly I discover I have kindred spirits here...
strange isn't it?
we all need topomax for one reason or another and we have so many other things in common...Yes we were meant to be here -- we are here to help each other...
not sure if that is why Doctor Bob planned it...
but it is how it seems to work...by the way another trick you might try to calm your corgi is to give him a raw marrow bone to chew on and lick out... a raw bone is safe; cooked bones are dangerous... the licking of the bone will calm him... and the marrow will interest him...
when the bone is empty, fill it with peanut butter and he can start all over again...
or fill a Kong with peanut butter although I prefer the bones as the Kongs get rather dirty and yucky and the bones are a little more nutritious...
they are calming and give the dog something to do rather than spin around and lick and chew at himself...
wish I could find something like that for myself on the bad days... suppose people would look at me strangely if I sat there licking at a raw bone
kat
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 18:11:06
In reply to Re: medications, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 17:09:09
> Lar, are you a veteranarian?
No, but I have some training in common with one. I'm an environmental toxicologist. I'm also a good researcher. I'm just a geek looking for something to geek on.
Lar
Posted by gardenergirl on October 11, 2004, at 18:51:23
In reply to Re: ham skin....and a box of dead hair, posted by bridgey1128 on October 11, 2004, at 13:54:31
Thanks for the giggles. My first thought when I read your subject line was "ewwwwwwww". But I'm glad I braved it and read your post!
Reminds me of when I was 5 and had to get a spinal tap. (I had encephalitis). The doctor said "Now this will just be a little stick in your back." I could not imagine why he would be taking a piece of twig or a stick from the woods (I grew up next to a large wooded area) and poke it on my back. How was that going to help? But I just lay there like a good little girl and wondered. Hmmmm, I wonder if this is why I always have to understand and agree with what docotrs are saying versus just taking their recommendations on blind faith? ....trying to avoid any more "sticks"?
:)
gg
Posted by iris2 on October 11, 2004, at 19:39:22
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 12:37:17
My dog was on amipramine for at least a year. The vet prescribed it. I did think it helped but kept forgetting to give it to him and it did not help much so I took him off of it. He took it because he is afraid and "panicy" around everyone.
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 11, 2004, at 19:45:30
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam » Larry Hoover, posted by stressed on October 11, 2004, at 13:31:44
Okay I bite. Why does your dog need prosac?
Here is a link on pscho-babble http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041007/msgs/401629.html
irene
Posted by NeNe on October 12, 2004, at 0:42:11
In reply to Re: medications » stressed, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 18:11:06
Has any one in this group been on remeron ?
Posted by NeNe on October 12, 2004, at 1:37:40
In reply to topomax, posted by Ellen Brodie on April 19, 1999, at 15:58:40
I have to let you all know that I was on topomax for quite a while, and for the first time in my life I felt like I fit in ! It was the only medication that I was on that did not make me feel like my mind was racing, and I actually felt "like a normal person" whatever that is !
But something went wrong--and of course it's never the Dr's fault (I should know being a former nurse)I rapidly started losing weight and not in a good way! To this day I am still confused as to the dosage I was taking, but I was down to a skelton, and I will be the first to admit it. It was the only medication that kept me from migraine's and that's a miracle. But I want to make a long story short, my father passed away recently and I had been off topomax for over a year. I just did go back to topomax by myself as it is the only medication that keeps me in a normal realm !!!! I have done this on my own slowly but I do not remember how much to gradually go up to ? I want to say about
300mg to stabilize. My Psych had me on klonopin 2mg 4x a day-- remerom-resperidal-lamital-trazadone-----Is it any wonder why I am playing Dr now !!!! My body got soooo strung out !!!!
You would of thought I would of been a walking zombie, but oh no-- not my boby chemistry !!!
Help me out friends! Oh and btw headachelady I hope you are the one who is the dog trainer. I just got a 12 wk old male yellow lab (it keeps me alive) any tips? He is the only thing that that brings a smile to my face.
Posted by Weenie on October 12, 2004, at 7:35:58
In reply to Re: topomax, posted by NeNe on October 12, 2004, at 1:37:40
How much topamax were you taking that made you lose so much weight so quickly?
Posted by stressed on October 12, 2004, at 8:24:41
In reply to Re: medications » stressed, posted by Larry Hoover on October 11, 2004, at 18:11:06
Lar, you're doing a great job of it. Keep it up... for all of us!!-L
Posted by stressed on October 12, 2004, at 8:34:00
In reply to Re: topomax » NeNe, posted by Weenie on October 12, 2004, at 7:35:58
NeNe, I am so sorry to here about your father. My best friend lost he mother last week, and is having a roler-coaster ride with it. It must be difficult, I will be thinking of you. Congrat's on your new Lab!!! They are they greatest! Smart, loving, and beautiful animals. I really wish Kat lived near me!! I need her for advice daily, and to help me train my dog. As for the Topamax, you say you took yourself up? You must have had many refills on your prescription. We do not, and I am assuming the doc. will provide those on our next visit. How fast did you lose the weight? And I amost forgot - Welcome to our discussion group!! -L
Posted by headachequeen on October 12, 2004, at 13:17:16
In reply to Re: topomax, posted by NeNe on October 12, 2004, at 1:37:40
> I have to let you all know that I was on topomax for quite a while, and for the first time in my life I felt like I fit in ! It was the only medication that I was on that did not make me feel like my mind was racing, and I actually felt "like a normal person" whatever that is !
> But something went wrong--and of course it's never the Dr's fault (I should know being a former nurse)I rapidly started losing weight and not in a good way! To this day I am still confused as to the dosage I was taking, but I was down to a skelton, and I will be the first to admit it. It was the only medication that kept me from migraine's and that's a miracle. But I want to make a long story short, my father passed away recently and I had been off topomax for over a year. I just did go back to topomax by myself as it is the only medication that keeps me in a normal realm !!!! I have done this on my own slowly but I do not remember how much to gradually go up to ? I want to say about
> 300mg to stabilize. My Psych had me on klonopin 2mg 4x a day-- remerom-resperidal-lamital-trazadone-----Is it any wonder why I am playing Dr now !!!! My body got soooo strung out !!!!
> You would of thought I would of been a walking zombie, but oh no-- not my boby chemistry !!!
> Help me out friends! Oh and btw headachelady I hope you are the one who is the dog trainer. I just got a 12 wk old male yellow lab (it keeps me alive) any tips? He is the only thing that that brings a smile to my face.
>I am so sorry about your father... with time you will come to remember the fun times and waken with a smile more often than not.. I promise... been there so I know...
as for your dog, it you want tips, I can give you my email address and we can take it off the message board so as not to drive Dr Bob out of his mind <g> I would love to help as I know how much a dog can bring life into a life that needs it...
and the recommended increases are 25 mg with a couple of weeks minimum between increases....
and 300 mg should be a good stabilising dose...
I am at 300 mg twice a day right now and it seems to be working for the migraines and to balance my tegretol problems...
but the breakthrough seizures are still breaking through... of course the teensy primary doses of tegretol are not helping :( and I hope this new guy will deal with that when I see him in a couple of hours...together we can get through anything, Ellen... and we will....
that is a definite... strength in numbers and all those other bromides...
and some times they really mean what they say...again my thoughts are with you
kat
Posted by Stressed on October 12, 2004, at 15:36:34
In reply to Re: topomax » stressed, posted by headachequeen on October 12, 2004, at 13:19:34
Hello everyone, I was reading some of the other message boards and found that there is another "Stressed", out there. I should have been a little more in tune before I made up my name. I think I am going to change it to "Stressee", or try. If you see that screen name, it's me, Stressed. You see, I really am the Stressee, or that's how I see it. Haaaa Ok, I'm going to try this. -L
Posted by Stressee on October 12, 2004, at 15:50:23
In reply to Re: topomax » stressed, posted by headachequeen on October 12, 2004, at 13:19:34
Ok, I'm putting these messages everywhere, because unlike all of you, I still don't know how to correctly use these boards. I don't want to lose your wonderful support. I did change my name, so now there won't be any confusion. Thanks for your patience. -L
Posted by NeNe on October 12, 2004, at 16:55:01
In reply to Re: topomax » NeNe, posted by Weenie on October 12, 2004, at 7:35:58
> How much topamax were you taking that made you lose so much weight so quickly?
Wennie, seems to me that the Dr. keep increasing the dosage up due to depression as my job at that time was extremely stressful, basically they were setting me up for failure, so to my knowledge I believe 400 mg every day-- a bit too much along with working over 50 hours a week !
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 12, 2004, at 16:57:31
In reply to Re:dogs and Clomipramine/Calmiclam, posted by headachequeen on October 11, 2004, at 13:53:28
> as I mentioned earlier I breed dogs...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups concerning the breeding of dogs to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20041010/msgs/402251.html
Thanks,
Bob
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