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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Emme on September 22, 2004, at 14:17:38
I assume I'm allowed to ask this b/c it's legal and they require a legit prescription...
I think I'll need to order meds from Canada b/c of an impending change in my insurance situation. I've done a bit of an online search and there's about a zillion of them. I don't know how to go about choosing one because they all seem to have roughly the same shipping costs, shipping times, and other policies. They differ a little among prices, but that seems to be about it. Any recommendations of any particular pharmacies that are particularly good or bad?
Thanks
Emme
Posted by Bill LL on September 23, 2004, at 9:45:56
In reply to ordering from Canada, posted by Emme on September 22, 2004, at 14:17:38
Be careful. A lot of drugs that you think are coming from Canada are actually coming from Asia or somewhere else. This is especially true now since US drug companies have cut supplies to Canada. You don't want to end up with a sugar pill, or worse.
Find the names of some pharmacies and do an internet search to research their reputations. For example, go to Google, then click on "groups" and put the name of a pharmacy. See what people say about the various pharmacies.
> I assume I'm allowed to ask this b/c it's legal and they require a legit prescription...
>
> I think I'll need to order meds from Canada b/c of an impending change in my insurance situation. I've done a bit of an online search and there's about a zillion of them. I don't know how to go about choosing one because they all seem to have roughly the same shipping costs, shipping times, and other policies. They differ a little among prices, but that seems to be about it. Any recommendations of any particular pharmacies that are particularly good or bad?
>
> Thanks
> Emme
Posted by yznhymer on September 23, 2004, at 9:48:06
In reply to ordering from Canada, posted by Emme on September 22, 2004, at 14:17:38
Although its been over a year since I've ordered from them, I've used http://www.rxnorth.com/ with good results. They require prescriptions from a doctor licensed in your area and they do verify them. They are the mailorder subsidiary of http://www.mediplanhealth.com/default.asp. Because they have a Canadian doctor reviewing all prescriptions, the turn around time does take a while. For that reason, refills are processed a lot faster than new prescritions.
I still would do a price comparison, however. Remember to take the shipping costs into account when making your comparison. Also, another thing I did was a google search on the manufacturer of the generic they sent me to make sure the manufacturer was reputable as well.
Mark
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 24, 2004, at 7:18:43
In reply to ordering from Canada, posted by Emme on September 22, 2004, at 14:17:38
> I assume I'm allowed to ask this b/c it's legal and they require a legit prescription...
>
> I think I'll need to order meds from Canada b/c of an impending change in my insurance situation. I've done a bit of an online search and there's about a zillion of them. I don't know how to go about choosing one because they all seem to have roughly the same shipping costs, shipping times, and other policies. They differ a little among prices, but that seems to be about it. Any recommendations of any particular pharmacies that are particularly good or bad?
>
> Thanks
> EmmeI hope you saw Jay's post, way down the page, where he mentions some specific firms that are reliable.
In an astounding break from policy, Dr. Rost, a vice-president at the world's largest pharm co., Pfizer, testified (two days ago?) to a Congressional committee that the risks of obtaining drugs from Canada are vastly overstated, and false.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2811737
I watched him on the news. He quite correctly said that Canada's drug standards meet or exceed those of the United States. We actually have better protections here in Canada.
He was presented with a "ceremonial" camouflage bullet proof vest, in light of his courageous break with his employer's public policy.
That there are fraudulent and misleading drug suppliers on the net is not a valid criticism of the responsible players. If you can get a drug without a prescription and validation procedures, that's a pretty good indicator that you're in the grey zone. You might want to check with one of the seniors' groups that help retired folk get their drugs at better prices. They'd tell you who is a responsible supplier.
Lar
Posted by Emme on September 24, 2004, at 16:50:59
Hi All,
I think I am going to have to order meds from Canada due to anticipated change in my insurance status. I was amazed at the sheer number of pharmacies I found online and because their policies look so similar, I don't know how to choose one except by minor price differences. So....does anyone have any experience or any recommendations for particularly good or bad ones?
thanks,
Emme
Posted by partlycloudy on September 24, 2004, at 16:51:00
In reply to Ordering meds from Canada, posted by Emme on September 23, 2004, at 8:50:13
I have never used a Canadian pharmacy from the US to get scripts filled, but there are plenty of horror stories about quality - maybe fabricated?? Perhaps the Canadian Pharmacists Association (if there is such a thing) would point you to some accredited companies?
Is there a pharmacist in the house? I thought we had one here at babble.
Posted by jay on September 24, 2004, at 16:51:01
In reply to Re: Ordering meds from Canada » Emme, posted by partlycloudy on September 23, 2004, at 9:34:48
> I have never used a Canadian pharmacy from the US to get scripts filled, but there are plenty of horror stories about quality - maybe fabricated?? Perhaps the Canadian Pharmacists Association (if there is such a thing) would point you to some accredited companies?
> Is there a pharmacist in the house? I thought >we had one here at babble.Most of the 'horror' stories are made up by American drug companies who don't want to lose their market share. Seriously, there are millions of U.S. citizens from individuals, to groups, to even towns and cities who get their meds from Canada. And, I assure you, as a Canadian, Canada has some of the strictest codes and rules around medication in the world..much more regulation than the U.S.
Just don't reply to one of those 'chain' or spam emails which pretend to be Canadian. You can get FDA approved medication WITH a prescription at some very large online pharmacies. A few of the absolute best are: www.canadianpharmacy.com , and www.canadadrugs.com. Also, you won't be able to order scheduled (or whatever they are called) drugs from these places. Again, these are FDA approved drugs, WITH a prescription, and it is all perfectly legit. They will need your doctor's info to verify and contact.
Good luck...and you should save a bundle with many of your scripts. :-)
Jay
Posted by Emme on September 24, 2004, at 16:51:03
In reply to Re: Ordering meds Canada (FDA app, with a script) » partlycloudy, posted by jay on September 23, 2004, at 15:05:05
Posted by ron1953 on September 26, 2004, at 10:24:59
In reply to ordering from Canada, posted by Emme on September 22, 2004, at 14:17:38
I got my Parnate from www.abconlinepharmacy.com for literally 1/2 the price I would have to pay locally. I didn't have to worry about quality because Parnate is only made by 1 company. The only problem with the pharmacy is the same as the other Canadian pharmacies - they're slow because of the procedures they're required to do before shipping. Plus, they're in Vancouver and I live on the East coast - more mail time. So, I just have to place my orders well in advance to assure arrival before I run out of my current supply.
Posted by zero on September 26, 2004, at 12:18:44
In reply to ordering from Canada, posted by Emme on September 22, 2004, at 14:17:38
I use: http://pharmacychecker.com/ to find which pharmacy (Canadian & US) is cheapest for a specific med. It also ranks pharmacies by reliability and customer satisfaction.
Found out about it through AARP newsletter.
Posted by ghost on September 28, 2004, at 8:09:21
In reply to Re: ordering from Canada » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on September 24, 2004, at 7:18:43
> In an astounding break from policy, Dr. Rost, a vice-president at the world's largest pharm co., Pfizer, testified (two days ago?) to a Congressional committee that the risks of obtaining drugs from Canada are vastly overstated, and false.
This is Pfizer's response to Dr. Rost's statement of opinions:
Dear Members of Congress:
We understand that you have invited Dr. Peter Rost to join in a press conference and panel discussion on drug importation on September 23.
Dr. Rost has no qualifications to speak on importation, no responsibilities in this area at Pfizer, no knowledge of the information and analysis Pfizer has provided to the government on this issue, and no substantive grasp of how importation may impact the safety of this nation’s drug supply.
Dr. Rost’s sudden interest in importation came as a surprise, simply because he had never made any effort to participate on the team of Pfizer experts that has been studying the issue in depth.
Dr. Rost’s personal opinions on importation would have benefited from the extensive analysis of Pfizer’s importation team, which includes supply chain experts, security professionals and executives with backgrounds in regulatory and cross-border issues.
For example:
In April, Pfizer’s Vice President of Global Security, John Theriault, test ified before the Department of Health and Human Services’ Importation Task Force, which was mandated by Congress to study the feasibility of importation. In May, Pfizer provided a submission to the Task Force that supports Pfizer’s position that foreign authorities do not have the controls in place to guarantee the safety of exported regulated drugs.
Pfizer also participated in the GAO’s study of drugs purchased online by helping determine whether these drugs are counterfeit. The GAO test ified before a Senate subcommittee in June, concluding that consumers can easily buy drugs over the Internet without a prescription. The GAO concluded by stating, “It is notable that we identified these numerous problems despite the relatively small number of drugs we purchased, consistent with problems recently identified by state and federal regulatory agencies.”
These activities reflect Pfizer’s active involvement with the government on the issue of drug importation. Dr. Rost has had no involvement in this effort because he has no expertise relevant to the subject, and we believe he is doing a disservice to the American public and to those who believe in informed debate by issuing a series of personal opinions and asides that bear no resemblance to the facts regarding the risks of drug importation.
The issue of importation and how it may impact the safety of American patients is a serious health issue requiring informed debate. In 1987, Congress enacted important changes to prohibit the importation of unapproved medicines in response to many instances of unsafe foreign medicines entering the U. S. While the public health threats caused by such medications were significant enough in 1987, the potential threats from unapproved prescription drugs are even greater today.Here are a few key points that need to be factored into the discussion:
Unapproved, unregulated and counterfeit medicines bought online can (and do) come from virtually anywhere in the world. In light of the counterfeiting activity Pfizer has investigated, the importation proposals we have seen in Washington and some of the states are truly alarming. These programs open a tightly regulated system to a new drug distribution channel in which virtually every participant operates outside the law, outside the standards of acceptable medical practice and without effective oversight.
In December 2003, the Minnesota Board of Pharmacy investigated eight Canadian Internet pharmacies and found 32 different unsafe or questionable pharmacy practices (on pre-arranged visits!), including unsupervised technicians performing pharmacist functions; shipping multiple labels unattached from multiple prescriptions in the same box; incomplete patient profiles; returned products re-labeled and resold; and unsafe storage and shipping, particularly of temperature-sensitive drugs. The Board investigators found that the standards followed by the Canadian Internet export operations varied greatly from pharmacy to pharmacy - - some "appearing to have few standards at all."[i]
A still larger concern is that consumers don't have any real idea about the true origin of the products. As the National Association of Boards of Pharmacy cautioned in its Position Paper on importation[ii]: "An order for what is purported to be a Canadian drug may never be filled by a legitimate Canadian pharmacy with a Canadian drug or even be filled in Canada. The well-known risks that all consumers take when purchasing over the Internet, where, for example, an anonymous company may be 'here today and gone tomorrow' or an illicit business is disguised as a legitimate organization, are heightened when purchasing foreign drugs."
This concern is echoed in Prevention magazine’s detailed review of Internet pharmacy practices: “Shoppers need to be aware of a deceptive tactic known as ‘hiding under the maple leaf’: Web sites that advertise themselves as Canadian or prominently display the familiar maple leaf flag but are actually registered elsewhere.”[iii]
The dangerous nature of the products being shipped from foreign Internet pharmacies across the American border is exemplified by recent spot examinations conducted by the FDA and U.S. Customs. These found many shipments containing dangerous, unapproved and counterfeit drugs that pose serious safety problems. An overwhelming majority of the parcels violated U.S. laws and regulations because they contained unapproved drugs.
Finally, a new study released this week by the head of the University of Michigan School of Public Health’s Department of Health Management and Policy warns that federal drug importation would result in the loss to the state of thousands of jobs, decreased availability of U.S.-discovered medicines around the world, and diminished patient health benefits as a result of reduced future availability of new medicines from an overall reduction in R&D.[iv]
The situation overseas is no better. Notably, in just the last two months the UK suffered two high-profile counterfeit cases involving fake medicines in the legitimate supply chain:[v]In August, a UK health care agency issued an alert recalling two batches of Lilly’s Cialis when counterfeits were discovered after a patient reported to Lilly that his 20mg tablets were crumbly.
In September, the same UK agency issued a second alert recalling a batch of Abbott’s Reductil after counterfeits were spotted by a wholesaler after it became suspicious of the batch number.And on parallel trade, Dr. Rost is wrong. He incorrectly suggests that the price differences exploited by parallel trade in Europe have been passed on as savings to consumers. Parallel trade in Europe involves trade between pharmacies and wholesalers subject to appropriate regulations in their respective home markets. It does not involve individuals importing medicines on their own from foreign jurisdictions. Our long experience analyzing parallel trade shows the gains ultimately accrue to the middlemen rather than to consumers.
This view was supported by a recent London School of Economics study, which found that 50 to 89 percent of the potential gain to consumers from parallel trade is, in fact, realized by the parallel traders.[vi]
The extent of counterfeit medicines in the UK is unclear. However, at the end of 2000, the Centre for Economic Business Research claimed that six percent of the drugs in the UK were probably fake.[vii] Pfizer believes that international counterfeit operations are clearly targeting Europe ’s legitimate supply system. It is time to re-examine the weakest point in the chain – the repackaging of original manufacturers’ medicines by parallel traders.
To provide additional perspectives, attached please find an in-depth review of counterfeit medicines and the issues surrounding them.
We strongly believe these perspectives should inform public discussion on the dangers of importation.
Sincerely,
Chuck Hardwick
Senior Vice President Worldwide
Government & Public Affairs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i] Minnesota Board of Pharmacy Office Memorandum, at 2 – 5 (December 24, 2003 ).
[ii] National Association of Boards of Pharmacy Position Paper on the Importation of Foreign Prescription Drugs, March 2003.
[iii] “No Prescription? No Problem,” Prevention.com http://www.prevention.com/cda/feature2002/0,2479,s1-6568,00.html.
[iv] “Prescription Drug Importation, Investment and Employment in Michigan,” Dean G. Smith, Ph.D., Professor and Chair of the Department of Health Management and Policy, School of Public Health, University of Michigan, Sept.21, 2004.
[v] “Counterfeit Drugs Set Alarm Bells Ringing,” Pharmaceutical Journal, 11 September 2004 , p1.
[vi] P. Kanavos et al., London School of Economics, “The Economic Impact of Pharmaceutical Parallel Trade: A Stakeholder Analysis” (2004).
[vii] “Fake medicines cost £180m, says ACG,” Pharmaceutical Journal, 23/30 December 2000, p905.
Posted by Emme on September 28, 2004, at 10:52:15
In reply to ordering from Canada, posted by Emme on September 22, 2004, at 14:17:38
Thanks to all who have been posting the various viewpoints on the reliability of online ordering.
I've found the names of two accreditation organizations:
North American Pharmacy Accreditation Commission
Canadian International Pharmacy Association.For the moment I'm going to operate under the assumption that accreditation by one of these two organizations indicates at least some degree of reliability.
I would also like to check out who supplies their generics. Anyone know the names of acceptable producers of generics?
Em
Posted by ghost on September 28, 2004, at 11:49:34
In reply to Narrowing the search, posted by Emme on September 28, 2004, at 10:52:15
Not to scare you, but the FDA's website updates weekly generic manufacturers that are shut down (another reason why the US keeps closer tabs on drugs than most other countries) for not meeting standards. I'd suggest you just make sure that your drugs don't come from any of those sources listed. Generic manufacturers come and go VERY quickly these days, so it's hard to keep tabs on who the "good guys" are. If Abbott is still making some generics, they're very good.
An interesting aside:
Most pharmaceutical companies have very strict quality requirements for drugs. For example, if you take a 10mg pill, most major companies will say "okay, that pill needs to contain 99-101% of the 10mg it says it contains, or between 9.9 and 10.1 mg of the active ingredient." Generic manufacturers (in the US) only have to follow the United States Pharmacopaeia requirements, which are 80-120%. So basically, you could only be getting 8 of your 10 mg, or 12 mg even. The European Pharmacopaeia, as far as I remember, has similar standards.
Just something to consider. I use generics for some medications myself, but it's always something I keep in the back of my mind.
I feel like I'm very argumentative today. I'm sorry.
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 28, 2004, at 12:35:53
In reply to Narrowing the search, posted by Emme on September 28, 2004, at 10:52:15
> I would also like to check out who supplies their generics. Anyone know the names of acceptable producers of generics?
>
> Em
>The largest is APO. I also get drugs from PMS. I have never had any problems with either of these generic drug manufacturers.
Accreditation is probably a very good thing to consider, with regards to pharmacies.
Lar
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2004, at 22:45:08
In reply to Pfizer's response to Dr. Rost's statements, posted by ghost on September 28, 2004, at 8:09:21
> This is Pfizer's response to Dr. Rost's statement of opinions...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding the pharmaceutical industry to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040923/msgs/396611.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Emme on September 30, 2004, at 19:15:44
In reply to Re: Pfizer's response to Dr. Rost's statements » ghost, posted by Larry Hoover on September 28, 2004, at 9:37:24
The latest. I targeted a few accredited online Canadian pharmacies to ask them who supplies them with generic lamotrigine. So far two have responded. The names they've given are Apotex, Pharmscience, and Ratio-Pharm. One of them only listed Apotex. The other listed all 3 and I don't know what that means for consistency.
So...now how do I find out if these are reliable manufacturers? Perhaps I have to take it on faith that they're okay because the pharmacies are accredited. My local pharmacist is only familiar with Teva, Geneva, Ivax, and Greenstone.
This whole exercise is making me question whether I really should be on meds anymore in the first place, especially since I think the depression has been less extreme since switching from clonazepam to xanax. All quite subjective of course. My pdoc and T would argue quite strenuously against me dropping them. I'm going through one of my "is the cure worse then the ailment?" phases. I want to throw them all out.
Too bad Dr. Bob moved this post over from meds board. I think discussion of the reliability of online meds is would be better over there.
Emme
Posted by jay on September 30, 2004, at 19:15:44
In reply to assessing generic companies, posted by Emme on September 29, 2004, at 15:03:26
> The latest. I targeted a few accredited online Canadian pharmacies to ask them who supplies them with generic lamotrigine. So far two have responded. The names they've given are Apotex, Pharmscience, and Ratio-Pharm. One of them only listed Apotex. The other listed all 3 and I don't know what that means for consistency.
>
> So...now how do I find out if these are reliable manufacturers? Perhaps I have to take it on faith that they're okay because the pharmacies are accredited. My local pharmacist is only familiar with Teva, Geneva, Ivax, and Greenstone.
>
> This whole exercise is making me question whether I really should be on meds anymore in the first place, especially since I think the depression has been less extreme since switching from clonazepam to xanax. All quite subjective of course. My pdoc and T would argue quite strenuously against me dropping them. I'm going through one of my "is the cure worse then the ailment?" phases. I want to throw them all out.
>
> Too bad Dr. Bob moved this post over from meds board. I think discussion of the reliability of online meds is would be better over there.
>
> EmmeWell, just because an American pharmacist hasn't heard of a Canadian generic drug company...here is a list of very reputable Canuck generic companies with websites:
http://www.cdma-acfpp.org/en/members.htmlHere is further news on the topic:
Important notice regarding buying drugs via internet
Some people are choosing to buy their medicines online. The Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association urges buyers to be careful that they use reputable suppliers to ensure that they get safe, quality drugs.
Although there are honest, reputable pharmacies providing their services and products online, unfortunately there are also less-than-honest sellers, posing as pharmacies, out there too.
CGPA is aware of some of these dishonest operations and has taken action to try to stop the ones identifying themselves as specific suppliers of Canadian generic drugs. But the Internet is hard to police, especially considering the international scope of these operations. Disreputable suppliers rely on the high reputation of Canadian approved generic drugs and our lower costs to entice buyers.
Please be aware that Canadian generic drug manufacturers sell their products to Canadian licensed pharmacies. Canadian generic manufacturers and the representative industry association, the CGPA, do not sell prescription medicines directly to patients.
So please keep the following advice in mind if you are considering buying over the Internet:
DO be vigilant. Are you dealing with reputable suppliers? Reputable pharmacies clearly list licensing registration information and contact information. Phone the number given and see who answers. You can do Internet searches to see if the company or its address exists. You can check with the licensing body of the relevant pharmacy organization. If you can’t get in touch with a supplier any way except by Internet, it’s not a good sign.
DO be diligent researching before spending money. Are these drugs even approved in Canada? Health Canada maintains a website of all products approved in Canada. By typing in the “drug or generic” name of the drug (not the brand name) a person can get the list of all Canadian approved products, including the names of the manufacturers. The Health Canada site is found at: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/tpd-dpt/dpd_index_e.html
DO be suspicious if a site claims that you won’t need a prescription to get prescription drugs. All reputable pharmacies require a prescription signed by your own physician.
DON’T be hasty in giving money away. Make sure that the supplier has been in business for a period of time. Go back and check the website and email address in one week, two weeks or three weeks to see if it is still there before buying anything.
For more information, please contact:Jeff Connell
Director of Public Affairs
CGPA
Tel: 416-223-2333
Cell: 647-274-3379
Email: jeff@canadiangenerics.ca
Posted by Emme on September 30, 2004, at 19:15:45
In reply to Re: assessing generic companies » Emme, posted by jay on September 29, 2004, at 15:56:37
>
> Well, just because an American pharmacist hasn't heard of a Canadian generic drug company...Oops. Sorry Jay. All I meant was that my most immediate source of information - my pharmacist - can't help me out with this b/c she's only familiar with a handful of companies. I certainly don't think she'd know of all reputable manufacturers. No slam and no assumptions intended.
> here is a list of very reputable Canuck generic companies with websites:
> http://www.cdma-acfpp.org/en/members.htmlThanks muchly. I'll look there. And thanks also for including the article.
Emme
> Here is further news on the topic:
>
> Important notice regarding buying drugs via internet
>
> Some people are choosing to buy their medicines online. The Canadian Generic Pharmaceutical Association urges buyers to be careful that they use reputable suppliers to ensure that they get afe, quality drugs.
>
> Although there are honest, reputable pharmacies providing their services and products online, unfortunately there are also less-than-honest sellers, posing as pharmacies, out there too.
>
> CGPA is aware of some of these dishonest operations and has taken action to try to stop the ones identifying themselves as specific suppliers of Canadian generic drugs. But the Internet is hard to police, especially considering the international scope of these operations. Disreputable suppliers rely on the high reputation of Canadian approved generic drugs and our lower costs to entice buyers.
>
> Please be aware that Canadian generic drug manufacturers sell their products to Canadian licensed pharmacies. Canadian generic manufacturers and the representative industry association, the CGPA, do not sell prescription medicines directly to patients.
>
> So please keep the following advice in mind if you are considering buying over the Internet:
>
> DO be vigilant. Are you dealing with reputable suppliers? Reputable pharmacies clearly list licensing registration information and contact information. Phone the number given and see who answers. You can do Internet searches to see if the company or its address exists. You can check with the licensing body of the relevant pharmacy organization. If you can’t get in touch with a supplier any way except by Internet, it’s not a good sign.
>
>
> DO be diligent researching before spending money. Are these drugs even approved in Canada? Health Canada maintains a website of all products approved in Canada. By typing in the “drug or generic” name of the drug (not the brand name) a person can get the list of all Canadian approved products, including the names of the manufacturers. The Health Canada site is found at: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/tpd-dpt/dpd_index_e.html
>
>
> DO be suspicious if a site claims that you won’t need a prescription to get prescription drugs. All reputable pharmacies require a prescription signed by your own physician.
>
>
> DON’T be hasty in giving money away. Make sure that the supplier has been in business for a period of time. Go back and check the website and email address in one week, two weeks or three weeks to see if it is still there before buying anything.
> For more information, please contact:
>
> Jeff Connell
> Director of Public Affairs
> CGPA
> Tel: 416-223-2333
> Cell: 647-274-3379
> Email: jeff@canadiangenerics.ca
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Script revised: February 4, 2008
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