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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:24
I can't stand it anymore...I can't sleep. I can get to sleep on 100mg of Trazodone (one of the worst anti-depressants used for sleep) but it causes EXTREME nightmares.
I hate this - and not being able to sleep makes me very suicidal. My doctor is usless and the sleep specialist I saw said "Just give yourself time to relax before gong to bed." WHAT!? That's liek saying "CHEER UP! and your depression will disappear!"
ARRRRGHHHHHHHH!!!!! What's with some of these doctors? are they stupid?
God I'm going crazy.....
UGH
Jerry
Posted by ace on September 20, 2004, at 1:26:48
In reply to Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:24
> I can't stand it anymore...I can't sleep. I can get to sleep on 100mg of Trazodone (one of the worst anti-depressants used for sleep) but it causes EXTREME nightmares.
Cease it. There is many more to try...
1. Conidine 150-300mcg
2. L-Tryptophan- 2-5gram
3. Seroquel 25-125mg
4. Zyprexa- 5-10mg
5. Remeron- 15mg
6. Valium- 5-20mg
7. Mogadon (Nitrazepam)- 5-20mg
8. Klonopin- 0.5-3mg
9. Xanax- 0.5- 4mg
10. A sedating TCA
11. Old antipsychotics in very low doses...
>
> I hate this - and not being able to sleep makes me very suicidal.You will have a nice sleep if you follow Ace's above plan!
My doctor is usless and the sleep specialist I saw said "Just give yourself time to relax before gong to bed." WHAT!? That's liek saying "CHEER UP! and your depression will disappear!"
>
> ARRRRGHHHHHHHH!!!!! What's with some of these doctors? are they stupid?In a word: YES!
>
> God I'm going crazy.....
> UGH
> Jerry
Go crazy Jerry but stay alive bro!!!Ace.
Posted by sunshine211 on September 20, 2004, at 2:38:09
In reply to Re: Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep » jerrympls, posted by ace on September 20, 2004, at 1:26:48
Hang in there. I have been there. What a toss up huh? Really f-ed up nightmares that are very real and yet totally unbeleivable or no sleep. Pick your evil.
I say find a new med and gradually switch. IF you are totally sleep deprived you may want to try Ambien for a little while during the transition. Ambien works super fast (10-15 minutes to kick in) and has a half life of about 6 hours so you can get up the next day. The best part, because of its particular hypnotic effects, during those approx 6 hours of sleep, whatever you dream, you don't remember.
Good Luck.
Posted by Nohope on September 20, 2004, at 4:01:05
In reply to Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:24
Hi Jerry.
Please start trying some of ace's suggestions - they are excellent.
If I remember rightly, your primary medication is Effexor? If it is, I know what you are going through - the insomnia was terrible for me too. I just wish I knew back then what ace knows now...
Nohope
Posted by btnd on September 20, 2004, at 4:35:50
In reply to Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:24
Jerry, try med called Ambien. It's great for sleep.
Take care,
Brad
Posted by DanielJ on September 20, 2004, at 7:43:57
In reply to Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:24
I can recommend 5mg of Zyprexa. The main side effect of this drug is weight gain. In low doses like 5mg it doesn't always cause this. It can however give you peaceful, restful sleep.
Posted by TomG on September 20, 2004, at 14:59:16
In reply to Re: Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep, posted by DanielJ on September 20, 2004, at 7:43:57
Jerry, I second the motion for low dose Remeron in ace's post. It didn't do anything for my mood, but it was the best sleep I think I've ever had while on it. Also the dreams on it were very vivid and *good*; no nightmares. I also think Ambien is good for the short term or on those extra tough nights. One thing though, don't stay up on the Ambien after you take it. I made that mistake a few times and it's almost comparable to taking an hallucinogenic drug if you stay up while its kicking in. Take care.
Tom
Posted by TomG on September 20, 2004, at 15:01:52
In reply to Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:24
Posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 18:14:41
In reply to Oops the Above Post Was To jerrympls (nm) » jerrympls, posted by TomG on September 20, 2004, at 15:01:52
Here's what I've tried for sleep:
Trazadone (ick)
Ambien 20mg (used to work GREAT now my insomnia is too tough)
Seroquel (was on 100-200mg and it caused terrible weight gain)
Halcion (got me to sleep, but it wasn't restful and was short acting)
Valium, Ativan, Klonopin (they don't make me sleepy - they just take away anxeity)
Chloral Hydrate (didn't really work - but that was years ago)
Nembutal (BEST sleep I've ever gotten)
Remeron (but stopped because I had such vivid dreams that I thought would turn into nightmares and was worried about weight gain - a possibility tho)
That's what I can think of right now....thank you all for your responses.Jerry
Posted by jujube on September 20, 2004, at 18:43:09
In reply to Re: Oops the Above Post Was To jerrympls, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 18:14:41
Hi. I am relatively new to the board, but just want to tell you to try and hang in there. Things will get better, and in the meantime, there are people on the boards who will listen, share and offer words of support and empathy.
I'm certainly no expert on the sleep issue, but maybe you could try some Valerian or even Tylenol Nighttime. I have heard Valerian is supposed to be an effective, herbal sleep remedy. Someone on the alternatives board may be able to advise you on its effectiveness. I tried Trazadone too and even 25 mg knocked me out until noon the following day (yuck is right). I just stopped Effexor XR 1.5 weeks ago, and, while on it, I really didn't think I was dreaming at all. I feel for you, though, because I spent many years as a child and into adulthood having extreme night terrors (actually trashed my bedroom one night trying to escape). Now when I am feeling insomniac-ish, I take something simple like Tylenol Nighttime and it seems to help (and no night terrors).
> Here's what I've tried for sleep:
>
> Trazadone (ick)
> Ambien 20mg (used to work GREAT now my insomnia is too tough)
> Seroquel (was on 100-200mg and it caused terrible weight gain)
> Halcion (got me to sleep, but it wasn't restful and was short acting)
> Valium, Ativan, Klonopin (they don't make me sleepy - they just take away anxeity)
> Chloral Hydrate (didn't really work - but that was years ago)
> Nembutal (BEST sleep I've ever gotten)
> Remeron (but stopped because I had such vivid dreams that I thought would turn into nightmares and was worried about weight gain - a possibility tho)
>
>
> That's what I can think of right now....thank you all for your responses.
>
> Jerry
>
Posted by Colleen D. on September 20, 2004, at 20:26:21
In reply to Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:24
which works very well and at least in my case, it doesn't cause nightmares. Doxepin is a TCA. 50mg before bed is what my doc prescribed. I also take 225mg Effexor XR.
Good Luck!
Colleen
Posted by ace on September 20, 2004, at 22:07:30
In reply to Re: Oops the Above Post Was To jerrympls, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 18:14:41
> Here's what I've tried for sleep:
>
> Trazadone (ick)OK. Drop this.
> Ambien 20mg (used to work GREAT now my insomnia is too tough)
Also, cease.
> Seroquel (was on 100-200mg and it caused terrible weight gain)Did you try lower doses? i.e. 25-50mg
> Halcion (got me to sleep, but it wasn't restful and was short acting)
> Valium, Ativan, Klonopin (they don't make me sleepy - they just take away anxeity)At what doses are you using these?
> Chloral Hydrate (didn't really work - but that was years ago)
> Nembutal (BEST sleep I've ever gotten)Is there any reason you can't use this again?
> Remeron (but stopped because I had such vivid dreams that I thought would turn into nightmares and was worried about weight gain - a possibility tho)
How long on this for...? The vivid nightmares can dissipate over time...
>
>
> That's what I can think of right now....thank you all for your responses.
>
> Jerry
>Well we still have some tricks up our pharmacological sleeves!
1. Clonidine- 150-600mcg
2. Zyprexa- 5-10mg (weight gain MAY be an issue)
3. L-Tryptophan 2-5grams (no weight gain in my opinion)
4. Thioridazine low dose- this baby really knocks you out...
5. Tramadol- 100mg- 300mg - sedative + wonderful AD properties (watch for SS syndrome VERY carefully)
6. High dose Amisulpride (i.e.- 600mg)
7. Xanax- up to 6 mg (as a single dose) I would be very suprised if this didn't induce a good sleep
8. Gabapentin 300-1900mg before bed- I recently read a paper on this describing cases like yours. Apperently the Gabapentin (Neurontin) cleared up all insomnia disturbances in a large sample size of chronic insomniacs.
And, I am not real big on behavioural therapy, but you could try...1. Paradoxical technique...Try as hard as you can to stay awake for as long as you can
2. Sleep hygeine- regular shower at night same time, only sit on bed for sleep, relaxing music,
meditation on something pleasent (but don't push yourself to get to sleep!!!!)Have faith that this will fix itself up...we are all rooting for you...
Ace
Posted by Jasmineneroli on September 20, 2004, at 23:32:34
In reply to Re: ATTN: Jerry » jerrympls, posted by ace on September 20, 2004, at 22:07:30
Posted by Waki on September 21, 2004, at 0:57:01
In reply to Re: Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep » DanielJ, posted by TomG on September 20, 2004, at 14:59:16
third motion for remeron, it is breakfast of champions. you take that baby and you face will be on the box of wheatys in a week.
Tim the tool man would call ambien gerber baby food. remeron he would call a man-child of a med.
Posted by jujube on September 21, 2004, at 6:57:22
In reply to Re: Oops the Above Post Was To jerrympls, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 18:14:41
I also tried Trazadone, and, even at 25 mg, I was a zombie until about noon the next day (and I had taken the pill at about 9 pm the night before).
Another option might be melatonin. I think it is available in drug stores and natural food stores. What I have read is that is produces a good sleep without that drugged feeling. May be worth it to give a natural substance a try to see if it will counteract the insomnia side-effects of the meds. I've read that 1-8 mg about 1 -2 hours before bedtime is the dose. The only problem is that I have also read that it may contraindicated in people taking antidepressants or with depression. It's just a thought, and may be something to discuss with your doctor.
> Here's what I've tried for sleep:
>
> Trazadone (ick)
> Ambien 20mg (used to work GREAT now my insomnia is too tough)
> Seroquel (was on 100-200mg and it caused terrible weight gain)
> Halcion (got me to sleep, but it wasn't restful and was short acting)
> Valium, Ativan, Klonopin (they don't make me sleepy - they just take away anxeity)
> Chloral Hydrate (didn't really work - but that was years ago)
> Nembutal (BEST sleep I've ever gotten)
> Remeron (but stopped because I had such vivid dreams that I thought would turn into nightmares and was worried about weight gain - a possibility tho)
>
>
> That's what I can think of right now....thank you all for your responses.
>
> Jerry
>
Posted by miss salsa on September 21, 2004, at 9:27:14
In reply to Re: Oops the Above Post Was To jerrympls » jerrympls, posted by jujube on September 21, 2004, at 6:57:22
about trazodone,
I too suffer from insomnia. My first try with traz was like yours. I then lowered my dose to 50mg after 2 nights I have had the best sleep in years. Now, I am on 25 mg, taken around 10pm, asleep within 30 minutes. No morning fog.
Now that I have started Lexapro again, I think that the 25 mg works better. I wake about 5:30 - 6am...sometimes a bit before I want to. But I think that is the Lexapro, or lingering depression.
How long have you tried the Traz?
Posted by jujube on September 21, 2004, at 9:34:10
In reply to lower dose worked for me, posted by miss salsa on September 21, 2004, at 9:27:14
I only tried it a few nights and just found it far too sedating for me, the effects of which did not wear off until almost noon the following day (and it wasn't just brain fog, it was more like an overall lead feeling in my body as well). Guess it just wasn't for me.
> about trazodone,
> I too suffer from insomnia. My first try with traz was like yours. I then lowered my dose to 50mg after 2 nights I have had the best sleep in years. Now, I am on 25 mg, taken around 10pm, asleep within 30 minutes. No morning fog.
> Now that I have started Lexapro again, I think that the 25 mg works better. I wake about 5:30 - 6am...sometimes a bit before I want to. But I think that is the Lexapro, or lingering depression.
> How long have you tried the Traz?
>
Posted by Steve3211 on September 21, 2004, at 17:48:40
In reply to Insomnia to the point I dread going to sleep, posted by jerrympls on September 20, 2004, at 1:11:24
Hang in there Jerry,
My wife and I had great success with Restoril, a mild sleep benzo. It doesn't help you get to sleep but once you do it's lights out and good sleep too. I'm also on Lexapro an ssri and found it is very helpful with sleep once the initial s/e's wore off.
Best-Steve
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