![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 20 to 44 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by Ktemene on June 10, 2004, at 0:36:15
In reply to strattera trial ends, posted by zeugma on June 9, 2004, at 0:07:47
The fact that you only needed a single cup of coffee and soft drink to get through the day is a strong indication that you did the right thing in stopping the Strattera. I know what you mean when you say that Strattera gives you a combination of ‘alerting’ and fatigue. When I take Strattera in the daytime I have just that feeling- it is as if I am really very tired but a layer of stimulation is lying just on top of the still clearly perceptible fatigue/somnolence. I have tried taking it at night to take advantage of its sleep-inducing properties, but it tends to disturb my sleep. It is a strange drug. Your experience is tempting me to try dropping Strattera altogether to see how I do on just Provigil and Adderall (and very low dose Selegiline if it continues to work well). I take it you are still using Nortriptyline? And it won’t be too difficult to find another pdoc? With a new pdoc at least you won’t have to worry about countering your former pdoc’s inordinate fondness for Strattera and you won’t have to listen to any unsupported claims that TCA’s work in the brainstem while Strattera works in the frontal lobes etc.
Another positive aspect of the situation is that you have been thinking through a lot of possible alternative meds, and, now that it is summer, you will be able to experiment without endangering your effectiveness in teaching your classes. By the way, I really like your idea about severe inattentive ADD and anergic depression being the same condition. I think you mentioned that one of your areas in philosophy is philosophy of mind. Your idea might make a very interesting and original addition to the philosophical literature. I have always wondered why so few philosophers write about the philosophical implications of depression, especially since so many philosophers suffer from depression.
I hope your withdrawal from Strattera continues to be smooth. Let us know how you are doing.
Posted by zeugma on June 10, 2004, at 20:17:07
In reply to Re: strattera trial ends » zeugma, posted by Ktemene on June 10, 2004, at 0:36:15
Thanks for the responses, Viridis and Ktemene.
I only needed about two and a half cups of coffee today- a fraction of my prior intake, and despite some more insomnia. I made a pot of coffee when i came home, mostly to keep up my focus as I installed my air conditioner. But I found that it made me somewhat nauseous, and that I didn't really need it.
I called my pdoc's office to tell his secretary I was cancelling my next appointment. When she learned I didn't want to reschedule she told me she'd have the dr. call me back. I agreed to this although I was worried he'd convince me to continue with him.
He called back and I told him I'd discontinued the strattera. His first question was whether I had enough meds on hand, especially clonazepam, as that has a serious discontinuation syndrome. He asked me what my plans were to treat my ADD. I told him I planned to try a stimulant, and he advised me to try a short-acting one, as my last stim trial was of a long-acting one (Cylert) and I was forced to discontinue because of weight loss. Ok, this was reasonable, he asked me if I would continue with him and I told him I would get back to him after a week but that I was doubtful. I thanked him for his concern and advice. I could comment more on this, both positively and negatively, but that's all I want to say right now about it.
About the nortriptyline: Yes, I am continuing with it. It has some similarities to strattera in that I recognize an 'alerting' feeling when it hits (much more slowly than Strat) but this is accompanied by, and almost completely muted by, a drowsiness that is clearly antihistaminic. These feelings are faint at 50 mg, unmistakable at 75 mg. By morning there is nothing but usual morning grogginess. It improves the quality of my sleep, especially when combined with buspirone, for some reason.
My plan this summer is to get on a TCA-stimulant combination (plus 1 mg clonazepam, and possibly regular use of 15 mg buspirone at night). It sounds like this pdoc is amenable, and he seemed to acknowledge his mistake. The whole experience is sobering, and as my emotions cool as the Strattera effects subside further I am going to weigh the whole matter carefully.
I have heard a lot about the synergism of Provigil and Strattera, but how much of that is simply provigil's countering the strattera fatigue? That is simply a thought I have had when I considered adding Provigil to strattera myself.
Why don't more philosophers write about the philosophical implications of depression? Maybe because they're too depressed to publish the results of their speculations- or too depressed to write at all.
Posted by zeugma on June 11, 2004, at 15:00:40
In reply to more strattera thoughts, pdoc called, posted by zeugma on June 10, 2004, at 20:17:07
I think I will be starting a stimulant trial as soon as possible.
Posted by Ktemene on June 13, 2004, at 4:26:32
In reply to Re: more strattera thoughts, pdoc called, posted by zeugma on June 11, 2004, at 15:00:40
It's good that your pdoc admitted being wrong about you and Strattera. What stimulant are you thinking of trying? Are you having any problems going off Strattera? I hope you're continuing to do OK.
Posted by zeugma on June 13, 2004, at 10:57:38
In reply to Re: more strattera thoughts, pdoc called » zeugma, posted by Ktemene on June 13, 2004, at 4:26:32
> It's good that your pdoc admitted being wrong about you and Strattera. What stimulant are you thinking of trying? Are you having any problems going off Strattera? I hope you're continuing to do OK.>
Thank you for the concern. My pdoc (yes, still the same one, I will see how much he can help me now that the strattera is not an issue) suggested a short-acting one: am I correct in supposing that plain old Ritalin is the shortest-acting one? What about d-amphetamine? Does Adderall come in an immediate release as well as XR version? I need something that will help with physical energy as well as mental focus, but that will wear off quickly enough so i can sleep (still experiencing some insomnia). I would appreciate any suggestions.
I am continuing to do OK. I was able to do my laundry this week and to go to the supermarket this weekend, which shows that I am getting some energy back.
I still feel disillusioned over medications. Strattera was supposed to be a wonder drug, and it seemed to be for me at first. I remember wondering at the time if Strattera would make the TCA's obsolescent. The stims have been around forever, they are not miracles, but if they can treat aspects of my disorder, that is all i am looking for. I may start on a stimulant as early as tomorrow. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by Viridis on June 14, 2004, at 1:44:41
In reply to stimulants » Ktemene, posted by zeugma on June 13, 2004, at 10:57:38
I do well with Adderall (for ADD, but it also acts as an antidepressant). I take a pretty low dose (5-15 mg/day) and haven't had any problems with it. I've been taking it for a few years and can still skip it for a day or two without any withdrawal etc. I take the immediate-release generic made by Barr Labs, and haven't tried the XR version. For me at least, there's no "crash" of the kind that people describe for some stimulants, and it doesn't interfere with my sleep.
Good luck!
Posted by Ktemene on June 14, 2004, at 4:24:20
In reply to Re: more strattera thoughts, pdoc called, posted by zeugma on June 11, 2004, at 15:00:40
I agree with Viridis about Adderall; I had very much the same experience. I also take immediate release Adderall. My pdoc prescribes 20mg per day, but I often take only 10 mg. I have never experienced any sort of crash as the Adderall wears off, and I have never experienced any sort of euphoria when I first take it, although the energizing effect does feel like an antidepressant effect to me since my depression is of the extremely sleepy sort. Also, I have never had the impulse to take more than the prescribed dose. In fact, after I first started taking Adderall I asked my pdoc why Adderall was considered to have so much potential for addiction, since it struck me as having about as much addictive appeal as aspirin. And my pdoc told me that my response to Adderall was typical of people with ADD, for whom the medication's main effect was a distinctly noneuphoric calm-but-alert feeling. The energizing effect kicks in within a half an hour or so, and lasts several hours. (Although I should say that I always take my morning dose of Adderall with 200 mg Provigil and 200 mg caffeine, so I am not really sure which kicks in first.)
The other prescription stimulant I have been taking for some time is Provigil. As you know, Provigil really is a medication for narcolepsy, although it is widely used off-label for depression and ADD. This might be a point in its favor for someone like you who has a lot of narcolepsy symptoms. The best aspect of Provigil for me is that I can take it late at night and still get to sleep when I want to. Provigil takes away the need to sleep without taking away the ability to sleep. Provigil helped me a lot, but not quite enough, which is why my pdoc added Adderall to my cocktail.
It is a shame that Strattera was such a disappointment in your case after it appeared to be so promising. Strattera was not as disastrously soporific for me as it was for you, but it has certainly not been what I hoped for. Reboxetine might have worked better, but I gather that it will be a long while before Americans will be able to try it.
Good luck in finding the right stim!
Posted by zeugma on June 14, 2004, at 18:04:09
In reply to Re: more strattera thoughts, pdoc called » zeugma, posted by Ktemene on June 14, 2004, at 4:24:20
I got a prescription for provigil and am starting at a low dose tomorrow. As you say i have a lot of narcolepsy symptoms and I think that was a deciding factor in my pdoc's decision to to try that first.
A week off Strattera and my mind is noticeably 'looser,' freer, which is both good and bad obviously. I don't feel on edge constantly like I did with Strattera, noticing every little thing while feeling that awful fatigue, but I am now conscious of the fact that I'm poorer at perceiving detail. My pdoc said that provigil was relatively similar in effect to Cylert, which didn't have the alerting properties of Strattera, but which gave me a little more energy and I think I functioned better for the brief period i was on it. The Cylert was monotherapy while I am taking nortriptyine now which should moderate any weight loss from Provigil. Plus, notriptyline does have some pro-attentional effect, so the Provigil will have some 'help'so to speak.
At least the combination of nortriptyline and Provigil makes more sense to me. In case provigil doesn't work my pdoc indicated that Ritalin will be the next course of action. I hope to find the right treatment soon, since I need to have a productive summer (as well as a life), and I hate taking meds only to feel like the life is being drained out of me. Thanks for all the support.
Posted by Cairo on June 15, 2004, at 7:43:42
In reply to Re: strattera trial ends » zeugma, posted by Viridis on June 9, 2004, at 6:20:46
An 8 week trial of Strattera for ADHD induced melancholic symptoms in our teenage daughter which abated upon withdrawal of it. What could possible be the mechanism for this? She has dysthymia, ADHD, anxiety/social phobia, and Fibromyalgia with atypical features. Thoughts/conjectures?
Cairo
Posted by TJO on June 16, 2004, at 16:47:03
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by Cairo on June 15, 2004, at 7:43:42
> An 8 week trial of Strattera for ADHD induced melancholic symptoms in our teenage daughter which abated upon withdrawal of it. What could possible be the mechanism for this? She has dysthymia, ADHD, anxiety/social phobia, and Fibromyalgia with atypical features. Thoughts/conjectures?
Hi.Reboxetine, also a NE reuptake inhibitor, made my depression dramatically worse and produced anxiety. As far as trying to explain why this happened, I haven't got a clue. I'm not sure there are many neuroscientists who would. The brain is still a black box to a great degree, and it is difficult to derive the causes and effects for many psychotropic phenomena with certainty without a fuller understanding of the physiology of the brain and the properties of the drugs used to alter its function. Our scientists have much work yet to do. (I wish they would hurry up!)
Out of curiosity, how would you use the information were it available?
Wellbutrin (perhaps combined with Effexor) might be a good drug strategy to look into for treating the conditions you describe. Parnate might be another option.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 16, 2004, at 17:06:45
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by TJO on June 16, 2004, at 16:47:03
I'm sorry. The previous post was from me. I sometimes use the computer of TJO, and I forget to change the posting name.
- Scott (SLS)
Posted by zeugma on June 16, 2004, at 20:07:21
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by TJO on June 16, 2004, at 16:47:03
One of the few clues we had was that NE reuptake inhibitors were THERAPEUTIC for melancholic depression, so it's ironic that while non-selective NE reuptake inhibitors (TCA's) have real efficacy for this disorder, selective ones like reboxetine and Strattera can worsen or induce such symptoms. Not only is it a black box, it's a black box whose output hardly seems to be amenable to conjecture yet.
I doubt scientists are going to make any real progress with psychotropics except by accident. I mean that for the foreseeable future (the next hundred years or so).
Posted by zeugma on June 16, 2004, at 20:19:52
In reply to Provigil, posted by zeugma on June 14, 2004, at 18:04:09
two days on Provigil, and it seems vaguely similar to the other stimulants I've taken in the past, i.e. slightly calming, no real energizing effect yet, but I've minimized my caffeine intake to an absolute low. I am not pinning all my hopes on this med. 50 mg is too low a dose and I have no idea how long it takes Provigil to exert its therapeutic effect. From all my research it seems scientists have no clue how this drug works. I can only hope, then, that they stumbled on something valuable. Where Strattera immediately made me alert, even at 18 mg, this one is calming. So maybe I am having the classic ADD response to a stimulant. My pdoc seems to want to give this one about two weeks, then it's on to Ritalin, so I gather it's not like an AD in its delayed therapeutic effect. I'll probably have a clearer picture after I go to 100 mg on Monday.
Posted by rod on June 17, 2004, at 5:29:10
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by Cairo on June 15, 2004, at 7:43:42
I definetly dont know, but one thing comes into my mind.
There are receptors called hetero-receptors which are noradrenergic receptors located on serotonergic nerve firbres (they also exist for other neurotransmitters), without noradrenergic nerve ending present. They seem to rely on the NE floating through our brain. When they get activated by NE, they "turn off" the serotonin nerve.
So, if a drug produces more NE to float around the brain, it "slows down" our Serotonin system. But this does not really explain why some NE reuptake inhibitors cause melancholia and some work against it. But I think this can be one possible explanation. And I am sure other, yet unkown pathways and/or even undiscovered neurotransmitters play a role in this.Roland
Posted by SLS on June 17, 2004, at 6:02:34
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by rod on June 17, 2004, at 5:29:10
> I definetly dont know, but one thing comes into my mind.
> There are receptors called hetero-receptors which are noradrenergic receptors located on serotonergic nerve firbres (they also exist for other neurotransmitters), without noradrenergic nerve ending present. They seem to rely on the NE floating through our brain. When they get activated by NE, they "turn off" the serotonin nerve.
> So, if a drug produces more NE to float around the brain, it "slows down" our Serotonin system. But this does not really explain why some NE reuptake inhibitors cause melancholia and some work against it. But I think this can be one possible explanation. And I am sure other, yet unkown pathways and/or even undiscovered neurotransmitters play a role in this.Smart!
:-)
Good work, Roland.
- Scott
Posted by Dave001 on June 20, 2004, at 21:11:00
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by TJO on June 16, 2004, at 16:47:03
> > An 8 week trial of Strattera for ADHD induced melancholic symptoms in our teenage daughter which abated upon withdrawal of it. What could possible be the mechanism for this? She has dysthymia, ADHD, anxiety/social phobia, and Fibromyalgia with atypical features. Thoughts/conjectures?
>
>
> Hi.
>
> Reboxetine, also a NE reuptake inhibitor, made my depression dramatically worse and produced anxiety. As far as trying to explain why this happened, I haven't got a clue. I'm not sure there are many neuroscientists who would. The brain is still a black box to a great degree, and it is difficult to derive the causes and effects for many psychotropic phenomena with certainty without a fuller understanding of the physiology of the brain and the properties of the drugs used to alter its function. Our scientists have much work yet to do. (I wish they would hurry up!)
>I agree with this response.
Dave
> - Scott
Posted by WAKI on July 24, 2004, at 6:49:34
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by SLS on June 17, 2004, at 6:02:34
Hi,
I am involved with a Federal Grant for a university. The grant compares solving depression with meds symtomatically then to figure a way to ween you off meds and solve the problem another natural method.
Welbutrin has been the only drug that has solved my depression fatigue.
I have been on Strattera 40 mg for 2 weeks and 80 mg for 4 weeks to work on ADHD.
The Welbutrin gives me adrenlene and hypes me up. Concerta or Welbutrin does not help my ADHD, it makes it worse.
I notice all side effects of Strattera have subsided. I also notice i am not as much hyped up. I sleep (much much mucho much!)better at night when I take the Strattera.
I wonder if they are balancing each other out?
I also wonder if the Strattera is not helping the ADHD because the Welbutrin is antognizing it?
I'm thinking of tapering off the Welbutrin to see if the Strattera is helping the ADHD....
I'm also wondering if I will be tired and fatigued on Strattera. If I recall Welbutrin and Strattera reuptakes norepinephrine.
Wellbutrin reuptakes norepinephrine and dopamine.
I guess my point is what does norepinephrine do alone and what does dopamine do alone? If I recall my p-doctor said norepinephrine generates adrenelene or simulates it.
On Welbutrin I am able to get my heart rate much higher when I excercise which means I am not as fatigued.
My p-doctor is going to lower Welbutrin and assess the effect. Raise my Strattera which will be interesting.
I hope this corrects fo my ADHD.
Posted by WAKI on July 28, 2004, at 11:17:51
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by WAKI on July 24, 2004, at 6:49:34
Yesterday was my last day of taking Strattera. My 6th week on this drug became really bad. I was going to the gym everyday since I started Wellbutrin about 4 months ago. I lost 50 pounds and my diet was managable.
These last 2 weeks I quit going to the Gym, started eating escessively, became fatigued "again", and ultimately became sad and depressed.
I skipped taking the Strattera this morning at my usual 6:00 AM time. It's amazing, as of 11:30 am I am re-energized, off to go run some erands then back to the gym. I really saw no improvements from the Strattera for ADHD or Anti-depressant.
For the record Strattera in my life has failed miserably.
Good luck and good ridence to STRATTERA!
Posted by WAKI on July 29, 2004, at 22:24:19
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Strattera! Hello Life!, posted by WAKI on July 28, 2004, at 11:17:51
I talked to my P-doc and he wanted me to continue to give strattera a try. I inbcreased my lamictal back to normal and took the strattera and have to admit I do feel better. I feel more calm when I take the strattera on a good day and feel fatigued on a bad day. At the 6 week trial period it's almost as if the drug is unstable. I will continue to trial this because if I can keep the depression away and kill the adhd, I darn near have my entire life back after 20 years of messing with these dissorders.
I am obsessed with reading messages on various boards about the strattera. I now came across some threads that recomend to trial it for 3-5 months and all side effects subside. I hope to at leats get to 3 months. The main thing I am looking for is not to lose my energy.
One more important issue i noticed which skews the strattera results is the insomnia.
insomnia will make one feel weak and depressed after 4 consistent days of it (at least for me).
I have problems sleeping while taking wellbutrin and strattera. The strattera at first atagnoizes sleep with a speeded effect, but helps the sleep after about 6 weeks. This statement is comparing being on Wellbutrin.I'd really like to hear more individual experiences with strattera.
I believe these posts wil help other people give it a better chance when discouraged.
Posted by WAKI on July 29, 2004, at 22:31:59
In reply to Re: Would strattera treat depression and ADD?? » CareBear04, posted by Ktemene on June 7, 2004, at 19:37:08
I calculated that at 105 pounds you need about 60 mg. I gave my calculation to my p-doc and he said it's pretty accurate but can go more. With that statement I suspect 80 mg is about the max.
Posted by WAKI on July 29, 2004, at 22:46:47
In reply to Re: Would strattera treat depression and ADD?? » Ktemene, posted by zeugma on June 4, 2004, at 5:15:29
I've been reading through all the message boards on here and others tonight. I am noticing that everyone seemingly has different side effects.
For instance I get speeded in Welbutrin some people get slowed down. I dont have pains etc.. others do. Strattera made me fatigued 1 week and in one day I increase lamictal i feel great. Concerta like ritlan does nothing for my ADD, but others it helps. Strattera helps my ADD but does nothing for others,
Does anybody see my point? Personally I find these results frustrating because with all the different brain chemistrys i question if we are even helping each other.
I bring this up because I read so many discouraging reports on Strattera that i quit. If my P-doc would not have been assertive and logical I might be missing these good adhd helping effects.
The same goes for wellbutrin for me. 3 years ago I through wellbutrin sr out the door. For three years i have been fighting this sleepy fatigued depression. My other p-doc (i have 3 p-docs) said to try Wellbutrin xl. This gave me my life back in which my appatite was curbed, I went to gym everyday and lost 60 pounds now. My weight went from obese to normal. This is a huge success.
I guess my point is i am getting more anazed everyday by the different results we are all having.
Thoughts anyone?
Posted by Donna Louise on July 30, 2004, at 6:06:57
In reply to Re: Side effects different for anyone, posted by WAKI on July 29, 2004, at 22:46:47
I am having good results with Strattera (relief from lingering depression and anxiety) that prozac could not help. I also take Provigil and was still sleeping all the time. But, a big but, I only take 25mg of strattera and it has taken me at least 6 weeks to adjust. I still have a night here and there where I dont sleep well but I am not sleeping all day anymore and am getting alot accomplished that has needed doing for a long time. I tried to increase the strattera dose once and that put me in the bed. So 25 mg is very effective without the fatigue. I can't imagine taking the higher doses I read about. I am glad that I had read Jarod's take on it at "Crazy Meds" or I too would have gotten hosed and not be getting the relief from anergia and less than full remission from depression and anxiety. Oh, I have also been able to drop my provigil dose from 400 to 100mg.
Donna
Posted by WAKI on July 30, 2004, at 22:42:22
In reply to Re: Side effects different for anyone, posted by Donna Louise on July 30, 2004, at 6:06:57
Donna,
Hearing you sounds like a mirror image of what happens to me. Get fatigued, sit all day and sleep, watch tv and not be productive.
I'm glad i trusted my p-doc and stayed on strattera, i'm doing 80 mg per day. a proper dose is 1.2 mg/2.2 pounds.
I'm starting to get the hang of my fatigue. What i'm learning about myself is prozac, paxil, zoloft, effexor all did not work for me because seritonin is not my problem. Seritonin makes me sleep more. seritonin is what people need who don't feel happy and have excessive anxiety.
My depression is a straight forward fatigue and no energy. Basically i'm not sad.
The wellbutrin has Norepinephrine which is responsible for constricting blood vessels, which can increase blood pressure, blood flow through coronary arteries, rate and depth of breathing, and can relax smooth muscle in the intestinal wall.
Bottom line is Norepinephrine brought me to the gym, made me able to keep my heart rate up at full potential for easily an hour. I worked off 60 pounds of fat and am getting stronger every day.
My next problem was my mind is extremely "racey", thoughts go 100 mph and my short term memory was basically shot.
Concerta, ritlin just raced my mind more. Strattera has Norepinephrine which at the begining it raced my mind. But as time goes on the dopamine effect kicks in which affects brain processes that control movement, emotional response, and ability to experience pleasure and pain.
This is giving me pleasure again. The sertonin effect in the Strattera makes me sleepy. But the wellbutrin counter acts the sleepyness. We just adjusted ny dose and i have felt great the last two days. My mind has slowed down.
My problem why i was starting to feel bad was I tried to drop my lamictal. My private p-doc described to me lamictal was like a rocket booster. The lamictal appears to boost my Norepinephrine and dopamine levels which i think after 3 years of messing with these meds i am on to something.
My federal grant medical trial expermential p-doc really is pushing strattera at full to high dosages. I really trust his judgement and am going to use his full judgement and play out each side effect to solve them.
Personally for me provigal made me feel like i was receiving an electric shock. I wish i would have stayed on it more then a couple weeks because I probably missed its "wear in / normalizing period".
We set objectives, fatigue was first on the list which i believe is solved. My second was pleasure and memory. We are making progress here. I want to crank up the dopamine in the very near future because i need more motivation, pleasure and focusing ability. Hence we are going to raise strattera over the recomended limit after I normalize with what i got.
I have an advantage over most people. Because I am an expermental rat for the goverment. i get to see the p-doc once to twice a week and make adjustments as necessary. I then have a board of research scientists reviewing my status on a weekly basis. As you know most private sector p-docs wait about 6 weeks for each visit. I am so glad i got in this program.
If you have a chance to search the medical colleges around your area, look into their federally funded trials. Acadamia in my humble opinion is the only way to go because you have 10 times for people working on you and ten times better response to adjustments.
Anyway, everyone seems to have their own gig that works for them, which is cool if it works. I got in a real rut and srcrewed with meds for 3 years with little progress.
My main point for posting is i believe people need to understand they can miss a life changing opportunity if they back away from a med too early; or do not work it up to full potential and play out the side effects.
I for one am going to test meds to full potential from now on even if i have some bad weeks.
Posted by WAKI on July 30, 2004, at 23:31:46
In reply to Re: Would strattera treat depression and ADD?? » zeugma, posted by Chairman_MAO on June 4, 2004, at 7:59:27
I notice some people take cafeen to get charged.
I'll share something with the group here. I quit all cafeen. went froma daily coffee and coke drinker to none. I drink hot tea now with a little creme. No more coke, if i drink soda i drink diet rite no caffeen or sugar.
I then raised my fruit and vegtable level to an enourmous all time high. I did allot of research in this and expected a de tox period. Well i hit the wall and was having cravings of chocolate, refined sugar, coffee and alcohol. I am lucy if I have 1 alcohol drink a month if any, Booze reverses all meds and depresses you again. Proof is go out and drink with your pals, watch them drink booze, you drink alternating a water with a tea or odools /sharpes or soda with no caffeen.
Watch the next morning who is alert and who is dogging it. Peeple that are not depressed get depressed with a hang over and us people depressed we get our asses kick with 2-3 days on a depressed hang over. I eat a fruit, every hour i am awake. I am now drinking at least a gallon of water per day. I drink a 16 oz glass of water at least every hour, I eat a hardboild egg every 2 hours. I eat fish 3 times a week and chicken
4 times a week and raw meat once a week,
its cructial to eat your required grams of fiber. I need 31 grams. The fiber is like a sweeper sweeping out your intestines, verses no fiber which you are them mopping the walls sealing the bacteria in the walls.All these carb diets are a hyped BS. Losing weight is really simple.
1) Count your callories you take in per day. Reduce it by 500 callories. this is how i eat:
Basic Energy Requirements 2836 kcal
Extra Energy Requirements 1545 kcal
Total Energy Requirements 4382 kcalCarbohydrates 624 grms
Protein 142 grms
Fat 146 gramsThere are millions of these calculators on the net. Just plug abd chug. Put desired weigh in and it will balance your food. Work out cardio everyday min 30 minute. Try to burn 400 callory in that 30 minutes. there is 3500 cals in a pound.
If you dropped you food intake by 500 cals then 500X7days = 3500 callorys or 1 pound. If you work out an extra half hour thats 400 cals X 7 days is 2800 cals whci is 3/4 pound loss.drink lots of water abd it will wash the fat away, eat every hour and your body will burn fat like a blast furnace, A program like this will lose 3 pounds per week easily. thats 12 lb a month, 24 lb 2 months 48 pounds in 4 months, 72 lb in 3 months.
add a multi vitamin, B-Complex, L-Tyrosine 500 mg to 1000 per day,
Add the meds we are all taking, and my friends we will all be race horces. High performance race horses who are correcting their brain chemistry, blood work, organ movement, de toxing our bodys and should live to be 100.
I wake up at night to down a plum or a mango. My body is burning like a blast furnace now. My body receives so often (every hour) of food that it does not store it in fat but it matabolizes it.
By the year 2050 men speculated to live over 100 years old.My target is to live over 1 hundred,
Posted by WAKI on August 6, 2004, at 14:56:44
In reply to Re: Mechanism for Strattera CAUSING depression?, posted by TJO on June 16, 2004, at 16:47:03
Yesterday was my last day on Strattera. For the last 6 weeks Strattera has caused me to slip into depression.
Tomorrow I start a dopamine reuptake AD, hence I hope this works better.
Good luck to anybody who trys to make this Strattera work, for me it was a severe setback.
This is the end of the thread.
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