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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 17:06:27
I have been suffering bipolar II cycles for the last 20 years. Nothing helps. Every time I take an antidepressant I go hypomanic or can't sleep. I feel like its never going to get better. These drugs make me nervious, tired, dumb, jumpy, cycling and irritable. And I've had some of the best docs in the United States. I was taking lamictal, which did help with the depression, but it made me incredibly irritable and caused insomnia, which in turn made me cycle. If I have even a small amount of an SSRI I'm nuts for two days. Depakote, Neurontin, all of the others have very little intended effect but lots of side effects. I don't think its going to change. Wellbutrin seems to help with the depression but now I can't sleep again, even when I take 10mg in the morning. I just don't know what to do.
Posted by Civ on May 5, 2004, at 17:08:05
In reply to Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 17:06:27
Have you tried Zyprexa?
High dose fish oil may also be worth a try.
Posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 17:18:17
In reply to Re: Nothing Helps, posted by Civ on May 5, 2004, at 17:08:05
I take Zyprexa to help me sleep. It's the only thing that works for the hypomania and mixed episodes, but it doesn't help with the depression. If I take too much I can't get out of bed today. I am currently taking fish oil. I really don't know if its doing anything.
Posted by Jubei on May 5, 2004, at 18:57:14
In reply to Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 17:06:27
I don't know if this will help much, but I have read many times that depression can be anger turned inward. Often times people get angry at things that have happened to them in the past but never express the anger so it builds up and often leads to depression. I don't like medicine but I know the feeling of wanting security in knowing that there may be this drug out there that will work and that you can live life normally again. But this really isn't the case. I've met a lot of people in my life that have been on medicine, and from what I've experienced, they only got better because they worked out psychological issues with themselves that are often painful. I remember when I went into the hospital the first time I had horrible panic attacks and was scared I was going crazy or that I was going to lose control. I looked for comfort in talking to people and I liked hearing from them that I would get better and that you ahve to wait for the medicine to start working. Well, medicine dosen't work for me and maybe it does for other people but I know there is something wrong with the genetics debate because everyone I have ever met or read about that has an illness of the mind has gone through abuse in one form or another. I don't think genetics has anything to do with it, I do not believe people have been evolving for thousands of years and yet still harbor a latent design flaw that dictates a precursor to a destruction of personal survival or the survival of species. I ahve done study in primal therapy and I believe it makes the most sense so far, but I believe that anyone who truly gets better does so on there own despite doctors and friends and books and whatnot.
I could be wrong of course, but my isntinct says otherwise and so does my experience. You will get a better understanding of yourself if you write a lot about your life in the past and the present. You may discover things that have been bothering you for so long but you tried to forget them because facing them is too painful. But unfortunately the only way it seems to heal the pain is to face it even theough it is the hardest thing in the world to do.> I have been suffering bipolar II cycles for the last 20 years. Nothing helps. Every time I take an antidepressant I go hypomanic or can't sleep. I feel like its never going to get better. These drugs make me nervious, tired, dumb, jumpy, cycling and irritable. And I've had some of the best docs in the United States. I was taking lamictal, which did help with the depression, but it made me incredibly irritable and caused insomnia, which in turn made me cycle. If I have even a small amount of an SSRI I'm nuts for two days. Depakote, Neurontin, all of the others have very little intended effect but lots of side effects. I don't think its going to change. Wellbutrin seems to help with the depression but now I can't sleep again, even when I take 10mg in the morning. I just don't know what to do.
Posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 19:07:06
In reply to Re: Nothing Helps, posted by Jubei on May 5, 2004, at 18:57:14
I've been thinking of going back to therapy, but it didn't really help much. I'll try it again.
Posted by Jubei on May 5, 2004, at 19:21:37
In reply to Re: Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 19:07:06
Thats really good. It is some peoples opinion in psychology that normal talk therapy dosen't work becasue it dosen't let you get in touch with emotions in the right way. In other words, you can talk about something that made you sad, but true healing comes from crying actually, or you could merely talk about someone who did something bad to you, and it may get you angry but physically hitting a punching bag is what really lets you get in touch with your feelings and express them. It is widely believed that many psychosomatic symptoms are caused by suppressed anger. You are actually supposed to get angry believe it or not. It is part of the fight or flight response, and animals do this all the time( It is believed that the reason why animals never seem to develop mental illness even though they go through a lot of trauma in the wild is because they never grow up in a society that looks down on emotion expression like anger. They readily defend themselves or run when they have to. Interestingly enough though, there are quite a number of animals that develop mental illness in captivity becasue they are taught to suppress many things). Anyway, I know this board is for medicine discussion, but I am so curious as to methods that can help heal metal illness withouht medication as I have mental illness being depression, and drugs haven't helped much.
> I've been thinking of going back to therapy, but it didn't really help much. I'll try it again.
Posted by crazychickuk on May 6, 2004, at 6:02:35
In reply to Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 17:06:27
Did u take lamictal with zyprexa?
You could try taking lamictal again and take a downer such as zyprexa,remeron,klon etc etc for bed time.. ?
Have u ever considered taking just more than 1 med?
Posted by partlycloudy on May 6, 2004, at 7:01:46
In reply to Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 17:06:27
I am doing OK with bipolar II, GAD and panic attacks on
effexor xr 112.5mg
wellbutrin sr 300mg
ambien 5mg or 10mg as needed for sleep
xanax .5mg as needed for panic attacksIt took me 12 weeks to adjust to the effexor and feel the benefits. It has helped me tremendously, but I have to say that it's a long haul!!
I also see a therpist and am practicing meditation. It all helps.
Good luck.
Posted by T_R_D on May 6, 2004, at 13:47:45
In reply to Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 17:06:27
How about Lithium? In terms of test studies, Lamictal and Lithium are the only to drugs used for mood stabilization that can also lift depressions.
Posted by Sad Panda on May 6, 2004, at 15:31:55
In reply to Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 5, 2004, at 17:06:27
> I have been suffering bipolar II cycles for the last 20 years. Nothing helps. Every time I take an antidepressant I go hypomanic or can't sleep. I feel like its never going to get better. These drugs make me nervious, tired, dumb, jumpy, cycling and irritable. And I've had some of the best docs in the United States. I was taking lamictal, which did help with the depression, but it made me incredibly irritable and caused insomnia, which in turn made me cycle. If I have even a small amount of an SSRI I'm nuts for two days. Depakote, Neurontin, all of the others have very little intended effect but lots of side effects. I don't think its going to change. Wellbutrin seems to help with the depression but now I can't sleep again, even when I take 10mg in the morning. I just don't know what to do.
>
>Hi Griswald,
I take Remeron, which cause intense sedation in the same way that Zyprexa does. Do you take the same amount all the time or do you vary it?
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by griswald on May 6, 2004, at 18:51:16
In reply to Re: Nothing Helps » griswald, posted by Sad Panda on May 6, 2004, at 15:31:55
I am currently taking:
600mg lithium at night
12.5 mg of lamictal in the morning
50 mg of Wellbutrin during the day
and some combination of:Ativan
Xanax
Zyprexa
Sonatato sleep.
It varies each night. The lithium seems to help a little, but it turns me into a moron when I go above 600mg.
If I go any higher on the lamictal, I feel like I'm crawling out of my skin and I can't sleep. Also I get really agitated.
I think I'm just going to try to push the Wellbutrin.
Thank you for your input.
Posted by griswald on May 6, 2004, at 18:53:29
In reply to Re: Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 6, 2004, at 18:51:16
Actually, I think if I can push the Wellbutrin a little more, the combination of that plus the Lamictal might help a little -- if I can sleep that's the big question. Bad insomnia really makes me cycle.
Posted by greywolf on May 6, 2004, at 22:39:02
In reply to Re: Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 6, 2004, at 18:53:29
I think you have plenty of room to push the Wellbutrin. I finally got up to 400mg/day, but still absolutely no therapeutic effect. I've heard several other people finding relief at lower dosages, but usually 200-300, depending on whether it's SR or XL.
Posted by Sad Panda on May 7, 2004, at 3:17:01
In reply to Re: Nothing Helps, posted by griswald on May 6, 2004, at 18:51:16
> I am currently taking:
>
> 600mg lithium at night
> 12.5 mg of lamictal in the morning
> 50 mg of Wellbutrin during the day
> and some combination of:
>
> Ativan
> Xanax
> Zyprexa
> Sonata
>
> to sleep.
>
> It varies each night. The lithium seems to help a little, but it turns me into a moron when I go above 600mg.
>
> If I go any higher on the lamictal, I feel like I'm crawling out of my skin and I can't sleep. Also I get really agitated.
>
> I think I'm just going to try to push the Wellbutrin.
>
> Thank you for your input.
>
>You haven't had any luck with AED's for mood stabilising, so I would suggest using Zyprexa as a mood stabiliser & drop Lamictal(& Wellbutrin). You will probably be zombified until you get use to it, but they you could add a prefered SSRI later, after you are 100% stabilised.
Cheers,
Panda.
This is the end of the thread.
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