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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Carlos C on May 2, 2004, at 2:11:12
I really thought I had my life back. After a slow rise to what seemed like nirvana ended in a sharp decend to hell. The last year of my life has been ruined. I'm now half-way through 22 and don't see any future ahead of me. Nardil seemed to like the answer I was looking for. I could handle a good job for months untill I eventually fell apart. I started gaining weight, food and fatigue took control. I started getting more and more depressed. More and more obsessed. The mood-swings were unbelievable. Lashing out voilently at friends and loved ones. Therapy only helped me realize that I'll never be able to function "normally" in society. I've practically lost all hope. I feel better physically since quiting (Nardil) but I'm back in the black hole. Depressed as ever. All my friends have deserted me, writing me off as insane. Too scared to face them (or anyone for that matter). I can't say I blame them. They just don't understand. The whole situation has left me feeling embarassed, to say the least.
I've been a member on here for about three years. I had a love/hate relationship with pysc meds. I now litterally feel sick when I see a ad or promotion for anti-depressants.
I hope you all the best and that you can be strong.
Posted by flipsactown on May 2, 2004, at 4:50:06
In reply to AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take., posted by Carlos C on May 2, 2004, at 2:11:12
Carlos C,
I totally understand what you are going through. I have been taken ADs for over 13 years mainly rotating between Prozac, Zoloft with Desipramine; Paxil, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Lamictal, Lithium, Wellbutrin and currently on Nardil almost a month. I have gained weight also going from 160 to 220 pounds in 13 years. I have unipolar depression brought on by chronic low back pain, after being hit by a truck while riding a 10 speed bike home from work. I was only 28 years old and am now 53. After 2 failed back surgeries, numerous spinal injections, years of physical therapy, etc., I became very depressed. My PCP referred me to Psych where I was assigned to a male therapist who happened to be my age. When he recommended I take Prozac, I thought to myself that he was crazy. I had read all these negative things about Prozac and was not going to take it. Fortunately, I decided I had nothing to lose, but depression, and started taking Prozac. In less than 3 weeks, I was feeling good and depression free. Unfortunately, as you know, for some reason the modern ADs such as Prozac and Zoloft eventually stop working. After researching the net through this and other forums, I found out about the older, less prescribed MAOI ADs such as Nardil and Parnate. Hopefully, Nardil will be the magic bullet for me and from early indications, it may very well be. Have you thought of taking Parnate? Supposedly, it is better than Nardil as far as weight gain. Bottomline: You must not give up! You are only 22 years old and have the rest of your life ahead of you. Nobody said life was easy. Listen to your inner voice or spiritual self and give yourself a chance. Don't let depression do the thinking for you. Give Carlos C the chance that he deserves.
FST
> I really thought I had my life back. After a slow rise to what seemed like nirvana ended in a sharp decend to hell. The last year of my life has been ruined. I'm now half-way through 22 and don't see any future ahead of me. Nardil seemed to like the answer I was looking for. I could handle a good job for months untill I eventually fell apart. I started gaining weight, food and fatigue took control. I started getting more and more depressed. More and more obsessed. The mood-swings were unbelievable. Lashing out voilently at friends and loved ones. Therapy only helped me realize that I'll never be able to function "normally" in society. I've practically lost all hope. I feel better physically since quiting (Nardil) but I'm back in the black hole. Depressed as ever. All my friends have deserted me, writing me off as insane. Too scared to face them (or anyone for that matter). I can't say I blame them. They just don't understand. The whole situation has left me feeling embarassed, to say the least.
>
> I've been a member on here for about three years. I had a love/hate relationship with pysc meds. I now litterally feel sick when I see a ad or promotion for anti-depressants.
>
> I hope you all the best and that you can be strong.
Posted by Carlos C on May 2, 2004, at 8:36:16
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take. » Carlos C, posted by flipsactown on May 2, 2004, at 4:50:06
Thank you for that thoughtful reply. It actually made me feel a little better. That's worth more than gold to me right now. I really do hope that Nardil can help you. I have to be honest though...and this is not to discourage you. As as they say, your mileage may vary so take this as you may.
At first I really thought Nardil was my magic bullet. After many trails on all the popular, hyper-marketed anti-depressants I really thought "this is it!" I had to almost con my doctor into writing a prescription. I guess pfizer doesn't make Naril pens and clocks for the office??? (I tend to notice company logo (Effexxor, Celexa, Wellbutrin, Lexapro, etc. paraphenaila pop up in the office when a new drug popped up on the market as I walked away with some 'free samples') Anywho.. back to my Nardil story.
The first few weeks were kinda foggy. I experienced a lot of headaches and orthrostatic hypotension (I would nearly faint after standing from a sitting or laying position). I actully had this happen to me while in public and it wasn't pretty. After that became tolerated and eventually subsided I began to notice that my appetite actually DEcreased and the bothersome side-effects were shadowed or masked by a slight euphoria. Life was looking brighter. I had ambition and reason for living. Got back to working, not afraid of going out of the house, meeting new people, making friends just having a good ol' time. To make a very long story short, things started to go down hill eventually. I started to get the envidable poop-out phynomenom. The fatique was becoming unbearable and interfering with my life. This along with the now increased appetite caused me to gain a substantial amount of weight. I was always image-consious and had always tried my best to eat healthy and exercise. Maintaining lean mass and a low body fat percentage were important to me. So needless to say after the once awesome anti-anxiety and anti-depressant qualities of Nardil wore I was left a depressed, anxious, extremely low self-esteemed individual. I tried upping my doseage, tried lowering my doseage, tried stopping for periods of time and restarting. Nothing seemed to bring back that magic. I'm now finally off all "pyscho-meds". To be completely honest, I'm not sure if I'm better or worse? Pysically I feel like I've been reborn. No more consipation, bloating, faiting, spike and surges in mood, blood pressure, or the extreme fatique (just to name a few side-effects). I'm trying to set some goals for myself which tends to be a double edged sword for me. Half of me says I'll never achive them while the other half really wants to try. For instance I plan to rid of gut and get my body back! One of my main triggers of depression is awful self-image. I think if I can be "comfortable in my skin" I can be more relaxed and in turn easy my anxiety, which in turns typically lead me to a state of depressive thoughts.
OK...So I'll leave it at that for now I'm starting to make less and less sense. Once again I really do wish you the best. You seem like a very warm person and if we could all be a little more nicer I think it would be gratifying for all. Take care.
Carlos.
Posted by Sad Panda on May 2, 2004, at 14:18:51
In reply to AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take., posted by Carlos C on May 2, 2004, at 2:11:12
Hi Carlos,
"What a roller coaster!" & "The mood-swings were unbelievable. Lashing out voilently at friends and loved ones." Sounds a bit like possible BP2? Did you try Lamictal?
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Carlos C on May 2, 2004, at 15:17:33
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take. » Carlos C, posted by Sad Panda on May 2, 2004, at 14:18:51
> Hi Carlos,
>
> "What a roller coaster!" & "The mood-swings were unbelievable. Lashing out voilently at friends and loved ones." Sounds a bit like possible BP2? Did you try Lamictal?
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>This wasn't mania. Even it it was, it was induced by the Nardil. Alreadying feelined like a drugged zombie I wasn't about to add more drugs.
Posted by Sad Panda on May 2, 2004, at 15:24:38
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take., posted by Carlos C on May 2, 2004, at 15:17:33
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > "What a roller coaster!" & "The mood-swings were unbelievable. Lashing out voilently at friends and loved ones." Sounds a bit like possible BP2? Did you try Lamictal?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
> >
>
> This wasn't mania. Even it it was, it was induced by the Nardil. Alreadying feelined like a drugged zombie I wasn't about to add more drugs.
>
>Hi Carlos,
With BP2 there is no mania, but instead either a milder form called hypomania, or a horrible thing where the energy comes out as extreme irratibility, frustration & anger. With BP taking AD's tend to make things worse, generally, the mood should be stabilised first & then AD's added later. Just something to think about.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Carlos C on May 2, 2004, at 17:19:59
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take., posted by Sad Panda on May 2, 2004, at 15:24:38
Thanks Panda. I always thought hypomania was a burst of careless, euphoric energy. I experienced this while on Zoloft. I actually loved it. I was feeling happy, extremely social, and care-free for about a week straight. It only lasted for the first week on Zoloft. I eventually quit after 6 months once I realized that the feeling was gone for good. I really hope that excersize will offer some med-free relief. Being in-shape really helped my self-esteem. Unfortunately I was (am) still extremely social phobic and depressed.
Posted by Keith Talent on May 3, 2004, at 6:36:41
In reply to AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take., posted by Carlos C on May 2, 2004, at 2:11:12
You could almost have described me. What about going back on the Zoloft (for depression and a little bit for anxiety) plus lithium (only the minimum to iron out the mood swings) plus clonazepam (for anxiety)?
Posted by man_oh_man1977 on May 3, 2004, at 15:09:04
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take., posted by Keith Talent on May 3, 2004, at 6:36:41
Hi Carlos C,
I agree w/ Sad Panda about possibe BP2, and commend you for considering it. Exercise is *definitely* good for alleviating emotional/mental illnesses, but maybe not enough. If you are socially phobic, buy some weights and exercise at home. As for feeling your life is over, my trip to "hell" started when I was 16. Ten years later, through a lot of different approaches and treatments, my life is steadily improving. I, too, hate to see all the paraphenianel (i know i spelled that one wrong!) in my drs. office, but I do have a really cool topomax pen :) Anyway, don't write of meds just yet - I'm sure some people here would agree that they are life-savers.
Best of luck,
Man-oh-man
Posted by Carlos C on May 3, 2004, at 23:05:28
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take., posted by man_oh_man1977 on May 3, 2004, at 15:09:04
I appreciate all your help. Thanks to all. I still think I'm going to take a break from meds. They tend to compound the problems. Masking one with another. I'm sensitive to weight gain on all ADs I've tried (and like most here I have tried A LOT!) I'd like to steer clear of benzo's as they tend to make me very tired and cranky. The mood stabilizers I've tried screwed with my cognition and memory along with MORE fatigue. (depakote, neutrotin). Like I've said before the mentioned is just a short list of the bad side-effects. I have so much more energy and way less digestive problems now that I'm 'clean'. My parents were kind enough to spring for an elliptical trainer machine and I'm dusting of the weight-lifting equipment.
Posted by harryp on May 4, 2004, at 4:50:08
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take., posted by Carlos C on May 3, 2004, at 23:05:28
Eliptical trainers are great. It helps so much if you can lose yourself with some repetitive aerobic exercise (swimming is my current fix) and just wear yourself out. After a while, it can get so automatic that you can usually do it even if you are badly depressed (which is when exercise can help you the most--at any rate, it can help things from getting worse).
If you feel up to trying a new med, I would strongly suggest Parnate. It is very unusual among AD's in that it acts as a stimulant, and does not cause weight gain. I have essentially no side effects on it. I absolutely cannot tolerate drugs messing with my emotions/cognition, and this is the only AD that had no bad effects on either. When I started, it caused fatigue, but that wore off relatively quickly.
> I appreciate all your help. Thanks to all. I still think I'm going to take a break from meds. They tend to compound the problems. Masking one with another. I'm sensitive to weight gain on all ADs I've tried (and like most here I have tried A LOT!) I'd like to steer clear of benzo's as they tend to make me very tired and cranky. The mood stabilizers I've tried screwed with my cognition and memory along with MORE fatigue. (depakote, neutrotin). Like I've said before the mentioned is just a short list of the bad side-effects. I have so much more energy and way less digestive problems now that I'm 'clean'. My parents were kind enough to spring for an elliptical trainer machine and I'm dusting of the weight-lifting equipment.
Posted by Carlos C on May 4, 2004, at 9:52:59
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take. » Carlos C, posted by harryp on May 4, 2004, at 4:50:08
Hi Harry,
Have you tried Parnate yourself? I've spoken to some people on here that have had weight-gain on it. Even so, I did find the percentage of those with weight-gain with Parnate seemed to be lower than with Nardil. It would be interesting to know how long those with an activating effect have been using the med. It's typical that that many (including good) side-effects (like the stimulation) can reduce or disappear with time. Please let me know if your use Parnate, how long and your experience. Thank you.
> Eliptical trainers are great. It helps so much if you can lose yourself with some repetitive aerobic exercise (swimming is my current fix) and just wear yourself out. After a while, it can get so automatic that you can usually do it even if you are badly depressed (which is when exercise can help you the most--at any rate, it can help things from getting worse).
>
> If you feel up to trying a new med, I would strongly suggest Parnate. It is very unusual among AD's in that it acts as a stimulant, and does not cause weight gain. I have essentially no side effects on it. I absolutely cannot tolerate drugs messing with my emotions/cognition, and this is the only AD that had no bad effects on either. When I started, it caused fatigue, but that wore off relatively quickly.
>
> > I appreciate all your help. Thanks to all. I still think I'm going to take a break from meds. They tend to compound the problems. Masking one with another. I'm sensitive to weight gain on all ADs I've tried (and like most here I have tried A LOT!) I'd like to steer clear of benzo's as they tend to make me very tired and cranky. The mood stabilizers I've tried screwed with my cognition and memory along with MORE fatigue. (depakote, neutrotin). Like I've said before the mentioned is just a short list of the bad side-effects. I have so much more energy and way less digestive problems now that I'm 'clean'. My parents were kind enough to spring for an elliptical trainer machine and I'm dusting of the weight-lifting equipment.
>
>
Posted by Sad Panda on May 4, 2004, at 13:57:55
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take. » harryp, posted by Carlos C on May 4, 2004, at 9:52:59
I haven't taken Parnate myself, but it has a reputation for being one of the rare AD's that you can actually lose weight with, Nardil, OTOH, is practically guaranteed to give weight gain.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Carlos C on May 4, 2004, at 14:17:21
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take. » Carlos C, posted by Sad Panda on May 4, 2004, at 13:57:55
I have also heard of some people not gaining weight on Parnate but we're not all the same. Some people have mentioned to be weight-neutral on some meds that are notourious for weight-gain and vise versa. If I would go back to a MAOI (or any mood-altering drug for that matter) I would hope it to have no effect on my weight.
If anyone has had successful treatment in social phobia and/or BP type II long-term (at least 1 year) WITHOUT having it effect their weight I'd love to know about it.
All that said I don't want my weight gain hysteria to shadow the main issue here which is long-term effectivness.
> I haven't taken Parnate myself, but it has a reputation for being one of the rare AD's that you can actually lose weight with, Nardil, OTOH, is practically guaranteed to give weight gain.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>
Posted by harryp on May 4, 2004, at 14:26:46
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take. » harryp, posted by Carlos C on May 4, 2004, at 9:52:59
Yes, 40mg/day in summer 50mg/day in winter. I've been taking it for about seven months now, and I think I would be dead otherwise. After 10 years of chronic, malignant depression (with some decent periods of remission) I had gone through nearly every med, and at that point was hardly able to get out of bed, let alone leave the house.
Fortunately I scared my psychiatrist enough for him to suggest MAOIs. I had heard dreadful things about them, but was desperate, and selected Parnate because it wasn't known for sedation and weight gain. In the end, my dr. got cold feet and I had to be fairly aggressive in getting the script!
I was amazed when I started taking Parnate because it didn't make me feel like a lobotomized bloated drone, as did nearly all the serotonergic drugs. When I finally raised my dose to 40 mg., the effect was dramatic. I was able to read difficult philosophy books with pleasure for the first time in nearly a year. The depression continued to get better, and I've been able to go to graduate school and even revive my old interest in medical school (young adult and adolescent internal medicine--anything but psychiatry!)
I like Parnate (I suspect Nardil is similar) because it isn't a "happy pill." I have been suicidally depressed and miserable on it, and also very happy (not as often as I would like!). It short, it leaves my basic emotions alone while relieving the paralizing numb depression that made it impossible to function.
I have heard of weight gain in a few studies of Parnate, but it seems very rare, and I suspect if it did occur it would be mild and reversible with exercise.
The stimulant effect is mild but has not grown any weaker since I started taking it.
Any AD can stop working (terrifying thought!) but I do know some people have been on MAOI's for decades. If it does stop working, I've heard that adding lithium to the Parnate can restore the AD effect. You could also switch to something else for a while, and try the Parnate again after several months. Effects like this really can't be predicted.
Good luck with whatever you decide. I'm really glad you're feeling better! I just wanted to add in that I also felt horrible on the modern AD's and was blown away that a drug from 1959 blew everything away in efficacy and side-effect profile.
Posted by Sad Panda on May 4, 2004, at 14:32:50
In reply to Re: AntiDepressants - A trip to hell. My take. » Sad Panda, posted by Carlos C on May 4, 2004, at 14:17:21
> I have also heard of some people not gaining weight on Parnate but we're not all the same. Some people have mentioned to be weight-neutral on some meds that are notourious for weight-gain and vise versa. If I would go back to a MAOI (or any mood-altering drug for that matter) I would hope it to have no effect on my weight.
>
> If anyone has had successful treatment in social phobia and/or BP type II long-term (at least 1 year) WITHOUT having it effect their weight I'd love to know about it.
>
> All that said I don't want my weight gain hysteria to shadow the main issue here which is long-term effectivness.
>
> > I haven't taken Parnate myself, but it has a reputation for being one of the rare AD's that you can actually lose weight with, Nardil, OTOH, is practically guaranteed to give weight gain.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
> >
>
>I was speaking in a general sense, I know that YMMW. :)
Unfortuneatly most psych drugs give weight gain, unless you are a really thin person who can't afford to lose any weight.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Carlos C on May 4, 2004, at 21:02:45
In reply to Re: Parnate and MAOI's » Carlos C, posted by harryp on May 4, 2004, at 14:26:46
Thank you so much Larry for sharing your experience. It gave me a little hope with regards to Parnate. I'm going to continue with my "natural" exercise and healthy eating for a type of therapy. At least untill I get back my self-esteem and better self-image. This way I'll have no one to blame but myself if I continue to have a weight problem. Then maybe (if need be) I'll give Parnate a try. Best wishes!
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