![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by galkeepinon on August 7, 2003, at 3:25:37
In reply to Re: Lexapro******Day 5, posted by Bill L on August 6, 2003, at 9:17:13
Thanks Bill:)
I may start tomorrow taking it at night. May be the right thing to do. So you are on Lexapro now??? How long have you been on it?
Is it safe to take Valerian WITH Lexapro though? Is there a dosage I should look for on the Valerian?I don't know.Appreciate your feedback.
hope to hear back,
gal> Consider switching the time of day that you take Lexapro. At least until the jitteriness goes away. When I first started, I also was jittery. I took Valerian which helped a lot. It's very safe. (Stay away from Kava since it can cause liver problems). Only buy Valerian that says "standardized" on the label. It should take about 20 to 30 minutes to work.
Posted by galkeepinon on August 7, 2003, at 3:32:52
In reply to Re: Lexapro******Day 5, posted by Rudi on August 6, 2003, at 10:22:59
Hi Rudi, remeber everyone's different in how they react to meds, the jitteryness is my experience and the insomnia also. I had a slight headache also but I take a tylenol and it's ok. I will tell you, though, that I am starting to notice more so now, that I am starting to let things roll off my back and I'm not getting so uptight over the tivial things lately, my concentration is better also-bigtime.
Are you taking any anxiety meds for your anxiety already? I have a tendency to worry about side effects that may come my way also, but this was a desperate effort because I was a mess with my depression-I wasn't functioning, I was beginning to feel hopeless, and crying non-stop, so I had to give it a shot, and so far, I am happy that I did.
Hang in there ok and keep me posted on how YOU are doing.
Gal
> I'm on day 3....so far a slight headache that wont go away....but it scares me that you are getting jittery...I am on the med for anxiety...where I get palpatation and chest tightness when I get anxious...feeling jittery will just make me moreso have an anxiety attack. My doc also said it will just help things roll off my back and I wont get so uptight over the tivial things...hope so....just having anxiety now just thinking about the SE that may be coming my way. Keep me posted on your days. Hopefully the SE will all go away .
Posted by Rudi on August 7, 2003, at 9:27:26
In reply to Re: Lexapro******Day 5 » Rudi, posted by galkeepinon on August 7, 2003, at 3:32:52
Gal....well I was on Paxil about 2 yrs ago.. for about 1 yr. made me gain weight so I went off. Just trying the lexapro for now...nothing else...have my xanax if I need it.
I still have my mile headache...and I could fall asleep but I don't have a good sleep.
I am still waiting for SE to start...and praying that I may not have bad ones.
Have you asked your Dr. about the sleeplessness...there must be something he can give you...its not healthy not sleeping.
Have youtried xanax for sleep?
Hope you get some rest! R
Posted by Bill L on August 7, 2003, at 10:13:23
In reply to Re: Lexapro******Day 5 » Bill L , posted by galkeepinon on August 7, 2003, at 3:25:37
I do a lot of reading and I have never heard of any dangers of Valerian. It should be safe with Lexapro. I have taken it a lot with Lexapro. I don't know the dose off hand but I guess start with 1 pill and see if that is enough. I rarely need to take it anymore.
I have been on 20 mg of Lexapro since it first came out (last October?). It's been great for me.
Posted by galkeepinon on August 7, 2003, at 17:15:33
In reply to Re: Lexapro******Day 5, posted by Rudi on August 7, 2003, at 9:27:26
Rudi, that's good you have Xanax PRN. Have you tried anything for your headache? Sorry to hear about that-they really hurt:( Maybe you can talk to your doctor about augmenting some other medications with your current monotherapy of Paxil??? That may help you.
Xanax doesn't seem to work for me, I take Klonopin at night have been for a while. Last night I took Benadryl (allergies) and I slept quite well. I'm going to start taking my Lexapro at night tonight-see how it goes, see if I sleep better.......
Take Care,
Gal
> Gal....well I was on Paxil about 2 yrs ago.. for about 1 yr. made me gain weight so I went off. Just trying the lexapro for now...nothing else...have my xanax if I need it.
> I still have my mile headache...and I could fall asleep but I don't have a good sleep.
> I am still waiting for SE to start...and praying that I may not have bad ones.
> Have you asked your Dr. about the sleeplessness...there must be something he can give you...its not healthy not sleeping.
> Have youtried xanax for sleep?
> Hope you get some rest! R
Posted by galkeepinon on August 7, 2003, at 17:23:00
In reply to Re: Lexapro******Day 5, posted by Bill L on August 7, 2003, at 10:13:23
Thanks Bill:) I am so happy to hear that the Lexapro has worked great for you!!! Did you by chance happen to notice any weight gain with yourself since being on Lexapro???? That always concerns me.
I may try the Valerian. I actually took Benadryl last night and slept quite well. But Valerian is worth a shot-I hear good things about it and now from you. I guess there is no *dose* eh? *laughing* just a pill.
Thanks again.
Best,
Gal
> I do a lot of reading and I have never heard of any dangers of Valerian. It should be safe with Lexapro. I have taken it a lot with Lexapro. I don't know the dose off hand but I guess start with 1 pill and see if that is enough. I rarely need to take it anymore.
>
> I have been on 20 mg of Lexapro since it first came out (last October?). It's been great for me.
Posted by Bill L on August 8, 2003, at 8:37:46
In reply to Re: Lexapro******Day 5 » Bill L , posted by galkeepinon on August 7, 2003, at 17:23:00
I found this on the internet. It's from the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (which I have never heard of). But the information sounds legitamate based on what I have read in the past. I like Valerian because it gives a feeling of calmness without too much drowsiness.
Valerian
Scientific Name: Valeriana officinalis L. Family: Valerianaceae
Common Names: Valerian, baldrian, radix valerianae, Indian valerian (V. wallichii), red valerian (c. ruber)
Composition: Most commercial formulations utilize an extract prepared from the dried rhizome of valerian and standardized to contain a specified concentration of terpene alkaloids. The fresh plant material has no appreciable odor; however, drying liberates isovaleric acid, which has a distinctive very unpleasant odor.
Proposed Therapeutic Uses: Anxiolytic for anxiety/stress reduction; mild sedative-hypnotic for treatment of restlessness, insomnia and sleep-related disorders. Perceived improvement in stress symptomatology and improved sleep patterns may require several (2-4) weeks of treatment with valerian.
Administration/Dosage: Anxiety/stress reduction: 150 mg of standardized valerian extract one-to-four times/day. Sleep aid: 150-300 mg of extract 30-45 minutes before bedtime.
Adverse Reaction/Precautions: Valerian has been classified as GRAS (generally recognized as safe) for food use in the US. Adverse reactions to usual doses are relatively minor, they may include headache, mental distress and morning drowsiness (hangover). There appear to be no psychic dependence/addictive potential associated with the use of valerian. Patients taking valerian for either stress reduction or as a sleep-aid should be cautioned to markedly decrease consumption of caffeinated beverages (coffee, tea, colas).
Clinical Pharmacology: Clinical studies generally support the ability of valerian to decrease sleep latency (time required to achieve sleep), decrease nighttime awakenings and extend sleep duration. A few clinical reports provide evidence for mild antianxiety activity based on both subjective and objective parameters.
Patient Information:
General:
Do not exceed the dose (number of tablets or capsules) or dose schedule (number of doses/day) recommended on the product label.
If you experience any ill effects, stop taking the medication. If adverse effects are serious or if they persist, contact your physician or pharmacist.
Do not take herbal medication during pregnancy or while nursing a newborn unless advised by your physician.
Valerian:Do not take valerian if you are currently taking prescription drugs for anxiety/stress or sleep disorders or taking nonprescription sleep-aids.
Reduce or eliminate consumption of caffeine (coffee, tea, colas) while taking valerian.
Do not drink (or markedly restrict consumption of) alcoholic beverages while taking valerian.
Valerian may reduce alertness and motor coordination; caution in driving or operating hazardous machinery.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 8, 2003, at 11:58:35
In reply to Re: Lexapro******Day 5 » Bill L , posted by galkeepinon on August 7, 2003, at 17:23:00
Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here. Valerian has never really worked for me (as far as insomnia is concerned, anyway... there is maybe a slight reduction in anxiety/muscle relaxation... but that may be placebo). I've tried many different forms, including tinctures of valerian that are very high in valeric acid (the active phytochemical).
Though I generally prefer to manufacture my own tinctures and glycerites of herbs (just yesterday I finished a skullcap/calamus/wormwood tincture that is just wonderful), there *is* one product commercially available that I've found helpful. It's a glycerite made by Gaia Herbs called "Valerian Poppy Supreme". It comes in 60ml (2oz.) bottles, and one dose (40 drops) contains 60mg total of extracts of valerian root, skullcap, California poppy, kava kava, passionflower, German chamomile, and mugwort. Here's a link:
http://www.iherb.com/veleriapop.html
There isn't a prescription sleep aid available that puts me to sleep, but this stuff knocks me right out -- and no hangover in the morning; just a pleasant relaxed feeling!
If you'd like to make your own herbal extracts at home, the process is very simple, though it takes four-six weeks. In case you're interested, here's how you do it:
1. First, of course, you have to decide which herbs you want to use in your extract. For example:
(Note: each combination of herbs listed here is just one of hundreds that could potentially be used to treat each condition listed -- these are just either my personal favorites, or ones that I've prescribed to others and seen good results with)
*To promote immunity and to detoxify your system: echinacea, thyme, mistletoe, eleuthero root, vervain, and elder flower
*To treat heart conditions, maintain a healthy cardiovascular system, and control hypertension: hawthorn berries, mistletoe, garlic, yarrow, rue, and asafoetida
*To treat depression: borage, camphor, meadowsweet, St. John's wort, rosemary, and mint
*To treat anxiety: betony, lavender, ashwagandha, reishi fungus, passionflower, and California poppy
*To treat ADD/ADHD: cowhage, kava kava, panax ginseng, and yohimbe
*To treat migraines: coriander, feverfew, betony, lavender, and rosemary
*To treat IBS: borage, valerian, anise seed, ginger, caraway, saffron, and lemongrass (if accompanied by diarrhea) or fennel seeds (if accompanied by constipation)
*To treat bronchitis or asthma: chamomile, horehound, elder berries, parsley, mullein, and hyssop
*To treat arthritis or fibromyalgia: camphor, bay laurel, white willow bark (contains salicylic acid, an orginal source for aspirin), meadowsweet, horehound, elder root, stems, or leaves, valerian and frankincense
*To treat CFS: eleuthero root, cardamom, panax ginseng, American ginseng, reishi fungus, mint, violet, lavender, rosemary, and rue
But let's just say you want to replicate (roughly) the Valerian Poppy Supreme extract above, only let's make it a tincture (alcohol-based) instead of a glycerite (glycerin-based). Alcohol is much more effective at absorbing the active chemicals in the plants. So the items you will need are valerian root, skullcap, California poppy, kava kava root, passionflower, German chamomile flowers, mugwort, 1.75 liters of 100-proof vodka, seven 8oz. Mason jars (actually, anything will work fine as long as it's not metal or plastic), sticky labels, mortar and pestel and/or coffee grinder, a tea strainer, coffee filters, and a one ounce amber bottle with a one millileter dropper. You'll need about an ounce of each herb listed, which will probably cost anywhere from $5-10 at your local health food store (if there's an herb or two you can't find, don't worry about it -- the tincture will still be effective); you can buy cheap vodka -- I use Crystal Palace brand, which costs about $10 for 1.75 liters; the jars I'm not sure about -- you may already have some, but if you have to buy them, they're a great investment, since they can be used over and over again in preparing all sorts of herbal remedies; the dropper and amber bottle should be easy enough to find -- just buy a commerically made herbal extract at the store that comes in a one ounce amber bottle (the cheapest one you can find) and discard the contents. You may even want to buy several so that you have more for storing other tinctures in.
2. Using either a mortar and pestel (mucho elbow grease) or coffee grinder (less-o elbow grease :-), pulverize all your herbs as finely as you can, preferably to a powder. In order to get the roots (valerian and kava kava) to powder, you'll pretty much have to use a coffee grinder.
3. Place each herb in a separate Mason jar (or whatever you're using) and cover with the vodka completely, also leaving a layer of vodka that extends about one inch over the top of the herb. Don't forget to label them!!
4. Place the lids on the jars, and shake each one well. Place in a warm, dark place. This process of the active chemicals being extracted into the solvent over time is called maceration.
5. Every day, take out each jar and shake it vigorously for just a few seconds.
6. After 4-6 weeks (depending on how strong you want the extract to be), it's time to strain the spent plant matter from the liquid. A tea strainer works well for the first pass, but to get out the smaller particles, coffee filters work very well. Just make sure that you squeeze every last drop of liquid that you can out of the herb.
7. Rinse each jar well, then place each extract back into its respective container.
8. Now the easy part -- you're just going to combine the extracts to form the tincture. In the one ounce (1oz. = 30ml) amber bottle, using the dropper put 4ml of each extract into the bottle, then cap it and shake well. Also make sure you shake it before every use. Tinctures will last at least 3-5 years without losing any potency.
9. And now the even easier part -- taking the tincture. :-) Just put 40 drops in a glass of spring water and drink on an empty stomach. You'll definitely feel some effect from this, but if it's not enough after 20 minutes, try another 40 drops. The maximum for anyone over 12 years of age is 120 drops per dose; for children over six years of age, the maximum is 60 drops per dose; ages 2-6, max of 20 drops per dose. This particular tincture is not recommended for infants, though a plain California poppy tincture has been used on infants by Native Americans for centuries to calm their nerves and aid their sleep -- the dose is 2-4 drops directly in the mouth or mixed with their milk/formula.
Now that that's done, I should tell you that there *are* ways to prepare herbal extracts that are non-alcoholic, which makes them more appropriate for giving to children or former alcoholics.
One way, as mentioned above, is in the form of a glycerite. The preparation is almost exactly the same -- just substitute a 60% glycerine/40% rose water solution (available at most pharmacies) for vodka, and allow it to macerate for at least 8 weeks. Glycerites are generally less preferred though because glycerine extracts fewer of the the active constituents of the plant matter than alcohol, and also because they don't last quite as long -- they begin to degrade after about two years.
The least preferred way of making an extract is to use apple cider vinegar instead of vodka or glycerine and to let it macerate at least 12 weeks. The only real disadvantages of vinegar extracts though are:
1.) They degrade rapidly, lasting about six months.
2.) They, like glycerine, aren't as effective as alcohol at extracting active chemicals.
3.) The maceration process takes so long.Finally, there *is* a way to "de-alcoholize" a tincture. Simply put the appropriate number of drops of tincture into an empty cup, then add a bit of near boiling water. This will evaporate most of the alcohol, but still keeps the good stuff intact. Then you just add water and drink it as usual.
Well, I enjoyed writing this -- I've been meaning to write something on preparing herbal extracts, as I always save these types of posts as sort of "essays" that I've written. If you have any questions, ask away -- I'm an herbalist, so any health issue you have, I can recommend something that will surely help. Best of luck!
Posted by zenhussy on August 8, 2003, at 12:10:32
In reply to Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 8, 2003, at 11:58:35
.....If you have any questions, ask away -- I'm an herbalist, so any health issue you have, I can recommend something that will surely help. Best of luck!
What sort of training have you had to earn the title of herbalist Ame?
Gaia is a great company and nice to see someone referring to their non alcoholic tinctures as well.
zenhussy
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 8, 2003, at 14:46:33
In reply to Re: Valerian... » Ame Sans Vie, posted by zenhussy on August 8, 2003, at 12:10:32
> What sort of training have you had to earn the title of herbalist Ame?
Well, first of all, I've practiced paganism most of my life, so I've studied herbs since I was about seven years old. I also worked in a large health food store for a while as the herb specialist and during that time had several dozen people under my care.
Next, I plan on going for my designation as Master Herbalist through Trinity College.
Posted by zenhussy on August 8, 2003, at 14:48:12
In reply to Re: Valerian... » zenhussy, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 8, 2003, at 14:46:33
> > What sort of training have you had to earn the title of herbalist Ame?
>
> Well, first of all, I've practiced paganism most of my life, so I've studied herbs since I was about seven years old. I also worked in a large health food store for a while as the herb specialist and during that time had several dozen people under my care.
>
> Next, I plan on going for my designation as Master Herbalist through Trinity College.
>
>Congratulations on the MH program through Trinity. I hope it will bring all your knowledge together and expand your horizons.
zh
Posted by galkeepinon on August 8, 2003, at 15:24:39
In reply to Valerian, posted by Bill L on August 8, 2003, at 8:37:46
Posted by galkeepinon on August 8, 2003, at 15:27:32
In reply to Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 8, 2003, at 11:58:35
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 9, 2003, at 21:15:29
In reply to Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 8, 2003, at 11:58:35
> I enjoyed writing this -- I've been meaning to write something on preparing herbal extracts, as I always save these types of posts as sort of "essays" that I've written.
Hmm, would you be interested in putting together a folder of herbal links for Psycho-Babble Tips?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links
Bob
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 9, 2003, at 22:14:35
In reply to Re: these types of posts » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Dr. Bob on August 9, 2003, at 21:15:29
Sure Bob, I'd be glad to. :-)
What exactly would you be looking for? I assume information on herbal treatments for psychiatric disorders, but should I also include links to information about herbs used to counterract side effects? Or for other things that posters may find useful (e.g. migraines, IBS, CFS)?
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 10, 2003, at 9:08:55
In reply to Re: these types of posts » Dr. Bob, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 9, 2003, at 22:14:35
> What exactly would you be looking for?
I've redirected this, see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/249757.html
Bob
Posted by McPac on August 10, 2003, at 22:37:57
In reply to Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 8, 2003, at 11:58:35
Hi Ame,
Regarding the product that you mentioned ("a glycerite made by Gaia Herbs called "Valerian Poppy Supreme")......would that product be okay to take with other meds and supplements (would it diminish the effects of other meds/supps)?
Also, I recently tried the "Calms Forte" sleep aid product---it had NO effect at all, lol, I need a "knockout" formula....so this Valerian Poppy Supreme product really worked for you huh...cool....I'd like to try it. Also (and VERY importantly) is there an herbal formula that you could recommend that could "mellow out" periodic temper? Lastly, do you have a link for an herbal product that might work really well for depression? THANKS!!! LOVE reading your herbal ideas!
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 11, 2003, at 1:21:18
In reply to Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts, posted by McPac on August 10, 2003, at 22:37:57
> Regarding the product that you mentioned ("a glycerite made by Gaia Herbs called "Valerian Poppy Supreme")......would that product be okay to take with other meds and supplements (would it diminish the effects of other meds/supps)?
The only potential interaction that I can see with this product would be added sedation if taken with other CNS depressants. However, I'm not sure which metabolic pathways each of these herbs uses, so there is a chance that one or more of them could increase or decrease the effects of certain drugs. I'll have to look into this for you.
> Also, I recently tried the "Calms Forte" sleep aid product---it had NO effect at all, lol,...
lol, I tried that stuff too... got fed up one night and tried 30 tablets -- all I got from that was a little nausea.
> ...I need a "knockout" formula....so this Valerian Poppy Supreme product really worked for you huh...cool....I'd like to try it. Also (and VERY importantly) is there an herbal formula that you could recommend that could "mellow out" periodic temper?
Nymphaea caerulea (aka the Sacred Blue Lily of the Nile; blue lotus) is great for this. It's mildly inebriating, somewhat like a mild cannabis high together with some carisoprodol, and its main historical use (other than as an intoxicant in higher doses) is to manage anger. Its active phytochemicals are believed to be apomorphine and nuciferine. About a teaspoon of the crushed leaves and flowers brewed into a tea works extremely well. I have found this site to consistently carry the highest quality blue lotus for the least money:
http://www.mazatecgarden.com/products/Sacred_blue_lily.htm
That same site offers a crystal resin extract that is 15x more potent by weight than the plant itself. The site touts its benefits when one prefers to smoke blue lotus, but I've found the extract to work quite well when soaked in red wine (the raw plant material can also be used this way -- just make sure to only use half as much as usual, i.e. 1/2 tsp, because even quite small amounts of alcohol seem to have a very synergistic effect with the lotus).
> Lastly, do you have a link for an herbal product that might work really well for depression?
There are two commercially available products that I've seen some great results with for even severe depression, especially when both are used in combination. Eight of the dozen people I advised who used these remedies together achieved complete remission, three achieved partial remission, and one had to discontinue due to oversedation. She did find relief using some other products I then suggested for her, however. The two products I employ most are:
"Good Mood Tonic", manufactured by Herb Pharm
Purpose: mood-elevating, tranquilizing, adaptogenic
Ingredients: skullcap flowering herb, St. John's wort flower and bud, ashwagandha root, and prickly ash bark
Dose: 20 drops in water, three times daily
Available at: http://www.herbal-remedies.com/shop/xq/asp/ptid.32406/qx/productDetail.htm -- 1oz. for $7.15"Master Formula", manufactured by Hidden River Farm
Purpose: adaptogenic, eugeroic
Ingredients: American ginseng, rehmannia root, asparagus root, astragalus root, solomonseal rhizome, wolfberry fruit, and cistanche
Dose: 1ml in water, twice daily
Available at: http://www.hiddenriverfarm.com/shop/products.asp?id=2 -- 2oz. for $15I also recommended that one cup of tea made with 1/4 tsp rosemary and 1/2 tsp Rhodiola rosea be drunk four times daily. A good source of Rhodiola is http://www.nutricentre.com/store/naturalelixirstore/longevity/18.htm, where you can get 20g of root for $9. I'm sure I don't need to advise you as to where to get rosemary. :-)
Some good augmentors, in the case of a partial response, are reishi extract (http://www.wildroots.com/product_info.php/products_id/3357 -- 1oz. for $13.95) and homeopathic remedies (if you're interested in homeopathy, I'd need your exact symptoms to suggest the correct remedy -- the remedies are very highly specialized).
> THANKS!!! LOVE reading your herbal ideas!
You're very welcome, glad I can help. :-)
Posted by Henryo on August 11, 2003, at 4:33:02
In reply to Re: Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts » McPac, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 11, 2003, at 1:21:18
Ame Sans Vie, your knowledge is dazzling. Herbs are the key. I experience great benefits from going out to my front yard and eating grass. I noticed Cletus, my beagle, doing it and figured why not give it a try. I watch him closely, animals have a keen sense of where the best sources are. He doesn't do it every day though. So I keep a quantity of prechewed grass frozen for those critical days. I think it is important not to wash off the ants or grit because Cletus doesn't. Natural substances are the way to go. Lately Cletus has been eating a lot of dried pigs ears. I suspect that the collagen and tannin content may be supporting nutritional deficiencies lacking in the modern diet. Boiling them over night makes them marvelously supple. Though I don't think you need to consume them. Drinking the water after it has cooled contains the essential extracts. For starters say five ears to the half gallon. You can build up from there. Drink it fresh. Prolonged refrigeration propagates iodine accumulation and unless you have a lot of activated charcoal on hand you know what that can lead to. I'm feeling better every day. I am anxious to see what Cletus starts eating next. The natural world has an embarrassment of mood elevating substances to teach us about. You are my inspiration, well you and Cletus.
Posted by McPac on August 11, 2003, at 12:46:50
In reply to Re: Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts » McPac, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 11, 2003, at 1:21:18
"Good Mood Tonic", manufactured by Herb Pharm
Purpose: mood-elevating, tranquilizing, adaptogenic
Ingredients: skullcap flowering herb, St. John's wort flower and bud, ashwagandha root, and prickly ash bark
Dose: 20 drops in water, three times daily
Available at: http://www.herbal-remedies.com/shop/xq/asp/ptid.32406/qx/productDetail.htm -- 1oz. for $7.15"Master Formula", manufactured by Hidden River Farm
Purpose: adaptogenic, eugeroic
Ingredients: American ginseng, rehmannia root, asparagus root, astragalus root, solomonseal rhizome, wolfberry fruit, and cistanche
Dose: 1ml in water, twice daily
Available at: http://www.hiddenriverfarm.com/shop/products.asp?id=2 -- 2oz. for $15">>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Ame!! So these two Formulas above are the two to be taken in combination for depression, correct? (Just curious, would either possibly work by itself? Is the Good Mood Tonic one likely better (of the two) for depression (noticed it has St. John's Wort in it)?
I can take the two in combo, no problem, it's just that I'm taking so many supplements right now that I feel like I'm taking too much....and I'm on Remeron also (the anti-dep. that seems to pack such a MILD punch, lol....and very low-dose lithium)"(if you're interested in homeopathy, I'd need your exact symptoms to suggest the correct remedy -- the remedies are very highly specialized)".
>>>>>>>>>> Okay Ame, my symptoms, here goes: DEPRESSION---the very low spirits, lethargic, unmotivated, sad depression....definitely could use a "happy, spirits-lifting boost, with motivation, energy"......ANXIETY---(I have ocd), definitely could use a "mellowing, calming, relaxing, quiet the mind-chatter-type of formula".....a mood-stabilizing type of ingredient would also be nice.....and something for this symptom (kind of hard to explain)--- fearfulness (I've been tested and my copper levels were high...read a lot on one site where high copper causes fearfulness in people...I have gotten my copper level lowered, which does appear to help....the fearfulness feeling is not a constant 24/7 feeling, it comes and goes but I usually feel it worse in the morning lately (used to be worse years ago at night)....it is NOT a fear of certain things like snakes, heights, crowds, rather it is a fearful FEELING inside (it SUCKS)....don't know if that explains it good or not for you......can you please suggest a formula for these symptoms (if I had to take more than one formula for these symptoms, that's fine!!! (I'd like to start cutting back on some of my other natural supps that don't seem to be making much of a difference anyway).......I would GREATLY, GREATLY appreciate your suggestions on the best possible formula(s) for these symptoms Ame....money is not an object...I just want the best formula(s) to do the job well! Thank you Ame!!!!!!!! (Ask as many questions as you need to also, if it helps you create the BEST formula(s)!
Posted by McPac on August 11, 2003, at 12:48:04
In reply to Re: Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extrac, posted by Henryo on August 11, 2003, at 4:33:02
Ever tried Primal Defense (homeostatic soil organisms)?
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 11, 2003, at 15:03:50
In reply to Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts, posted by McPac on August 11, 2003, at 12:46:50
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Ame!!
No problem. :-)
> So these two Formulas above are the two to be taken in combination for depression, correct?
(Just curious, would either possibly work by itself? Is the Good Mood Tonic one likely better (of the two) for depression (noticed it has St. John's Wort in it)?The Good Mood Tonic is much more specifically aimed at depression and anxiety. As you noted, it contains St. John's wort (35% of the formula is the SJW extract), which is of course a fabulous antidepressant, as shown time and time again by clinical studies. And the SJW extract used in this particular product is *extremely* high quality and and much higher in hypericins, the primary active chemicals, than any other product I've personally seen. Prickly ash bark (10% of the product) possesses stimulant, tonic, and alterative properties, which make it sort of an adaptogen. Skullcap, which accounts for 25% of the liquid, and ashwagandha, which accounts for 30% of it, are both excellent for anxious states. In fact, some people (myself included) occasionally smoke skullcap or drink skullcap tea as a milder alternative to marijuana. Ashwagandha possesses anti-inflammatory, antitumor, antistress, antioxidant, mind-boosting, and rejuvenating properties. It also is a great adaptogen. As with the St. John's wort in this product, all three of the other extracts are of the highest quality and contain a precise therapeutic amount of their respective active constituents. Here's a list of the active chemicals in each herb -- the ones that are most active in treating depression and anxiety I've marked with an asterisk:
St. John's wort: (+)-epicatechin, brenzcatechin, cadinene, carotenoids, caryophyllene, ceryl-alcohol, chlorophyll, choline*, cineole, cis-trollixanthin, emodinanthranol, epicatechin, flavonoids, gurjunene, hyperforin*, hypericins*, hypericodihydroanthrone*, hyperin*, hyperoside*, imanin, isohypericin*, isoquercitrin, isovaleric-acid-ester*, limonene, lutein, luteoxanthin, mannitol, methyl-2-octane, myrcene, myristic-acid*, n-decanal, n-nonane, n-octanol, novoimanin, palmitic-acid, pectin, phlobaphene, phloroglucinol, pinene, protohypericin*, protopseudohypericin*, provitamin-a, pseudohypericin*, pseudohypericodihydroanthrone*, pyrogallol, quercetin, quercetrin, resorcynol, rutin, saponin, sitosterol, stearic-acid, trollichrome, violaxanthin
Prickly ash bark: fagarine*, magnoflorine*, laurifoline*, nitidine*, chelerythrine*, tambetarine*, candicine*, xanthyletin, zanthoxyletin, and alloxanthyletin
Skullcap: 2-methyl-alkanes, 3,9-dimethyl-alkanes, 3-methyl-alkanes, beta-carotene, lignin, n-hentriacontane, n-nonacosane, n-pentatriacontane, n-tritriacontane, niacin*, riboflavin*, scutellarin*, and thiamin*
Ashwagandha: 3-tropyltigloate, 3-alpha-tigloyoxytropane, anaferine*, anahygrine*, beta-sitosterol, choline*, cuscohygrine*, ducitol, hentriacontane, ipuranol, isopelletierine, nicotine (don't worry, it's a very minute amount), pseudotropine*, somniferine*, tropine*, visamine, withanine*, withaniol*, and withasomine*
> I can take the two in combo, no problem, it's just that I'm taking so many supplements right now that I feel like I'm taking too much....and I'm on Remeron also (the anti-dep. that seems to pack such a MILD punch, lol....and very low-dose lithium)
You may want to just start off with the Good Mood Tonic. The Master Formula is purely adaptogenic, so its main purpose would be to "fine-tune" if the Good Mood Tonic isn't quite enough.
> "(if you're interested in homeopathy, I'd need your exact symptoms to suggest the correct remedy -- the remedies are very highly specialized)".
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Okay Ame, my symptoms, here goes: DEPRESSION---the very low spirits, lethargic, unmotivated, sad depression....definitely could use a "happy, spirits-lifting boost, with motivation, energy"......ANXIETY---(I have ocd), definitely could use a "mellowing, calming, relaxing, quiet the mind-chatter-type of formula".....a mood-stabilizing type of ingredient would also be nice.....and something for this symptom (kind of hard to explain)--- fearfulness (I've been tested and my copper levels were high...read a lot on one site where high copper causes fearfulness in people...I have gotten my copper level lowered, which does appear to help....the fearfulness feeling is not a constant 24/7 feeling, it comes and goes but I usually feel it worse in the morning lately (used to be worse years ago at night)....it is NOT a fear of certain things like snakes, heights, crowds, rather it is a fearful FEELING inside (it SUCKS)....don't know if that explains it good or not for you......can you please suggest a formula for these symptoms (if I had to take more than one formula for these symptoms, that's fine!!! (I'd like to start cutting back on some of my other natural supps that don't seem to be making much of a difference anyway).......I would GREATLY, GREATLY appreciate your suggestions on the best possible formula(s) for these symptoms Ame....money is not an object...I just want the best formula(s) to do the job well! Thank you Ame!!!!!!!! (Ask as many questions as you need to also, if it helps you create the BEST formula(s)!Well, it's great that you were so specific -- I can certainly come up with some homeopathic ideas that will suit your symptoms perfectly. I'll post those shortly -- I just need to consult my literature on the subject (homeopathy is an extremely exact science).
Once again, you're quite welcome, and if these suggestions don't end up working, I'm more than happy to keep working with you until we find some that do. You can click on my name at the top of this post to e-mail me anytime, if you'd like. :-)
Michael
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 11, 2003, at 15:48:31
In reply to Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts, posted by McPac on August 11, 2003, at 12:46:50
I'm going to list very specific symptoms/personality traits and number each of them. What you can do is just reply back and give me the number of each "symptom" you have -- and if any particular "symptom" is worse or better at any time of the day, be sure to tell me that, as well as other things that make it worse or better (i.e. foods, drugs, situations):
1. dislikes amusement
2. dislikes business
3. dislikes company
4. dislikes company; meeting friends, whom he imagines he has offended
5. dislikes members of family
6. dislikes going out
7. aversion to work
8. anguish
9. abrupt disposition
10. feels constantly as if forgotten something
11. forsaken feeling
12. forsaken feeling; on waking
13. forsaken feeling; sensation of isolation
14. feeling of helplessness
15. indifference, apathy, etc.
16. indifference, apathy, etc.; has no desire, no action of the will
17. indifference, apathy, etc.; to everything
18. indifference, apathy, etc.; to important things
19. indifference, apathy, etc.; toward others
20. indifference, apathy, etc.; personal appearance
21. mild disposition
22. variable, unstable mood
23. repulsive, bad mood
24. pities himself
25. pessimistic; never succeeds
26. pessimistic; feels unfortunate
27. quiet disposition
28. remorseful
29. reserved
30. excessively religious
31. unfeeling
32. unhappy; despair
33. unhappy; disconcerted
34. unhappy; discontent, displeased, dissatisfied, etc.
35. unhappy; discontent, displeased, dissatisfied, etc.; with everything
36. unhappy; discontent, displeased, dissatisfied, etc.; with himself
37. unhappy; dwells on past disagreeable occurrences
38. unhappy; dwells on past disagreeable occurrences; recalls old grievances
39. unhappy; grief
40. unhappy; grief; over things of little importance
41. unhappy; grief; unexpressed
42. unhappy; inconsolable
43. unhappy; inconsolable; over fancied misfortune
44. unhappy; wants to injure self; fears to be left alone, from fear of injuring
45. unhappy; wants to injure self; feels as if could easily injure self
46. unhappy; wants to injure self; satisfied, must use self control to prevent shooting himself
47. unhappy; wants to injure self; self-mutilation
48. unhappy; wants to injure self; suicidal disposition
49. unhappy; wants to injure self; suicidal disposition; but lacks courage
50. unhappy; lamenting, regretting
51. unhappy; sadness, mental depression
52. unhappy; sadness, mental depression; causeless, groundless
53. unhappy; sadness, mental depression; periodical
54. unhappy; sadness, mental depression; periodical; every fourteen days
55. unhappy; sadness, mental depression; worse in company
56. unhappy; sadness, mental depression; about things of little importance
57. weeping, crying, tearful mood
58. weeping, crying, tearful mood; though sad, is impossible to weep
59. hopeful; alternating with sadness
60. insecure, uncertain, scared; anxiety
61. insecure, uncertain, scared; anxiety; alternating with indifference
62. insecure, uncertain, scared; anxiety; full of cares
63. insecure, uncertain, scared; begins nothing, from fear of failure
64. preoccupied
65. preoccupied; brooding
66. preoccupied; theorising
67. mental sluggishness
68. mental sluggishness; in work
69. mental sluggishness; known cause
70. thoughts; disagreeable
71. thoughts; frightful
72. thoughts; of the future
73. thoughts; intrude and crowd around each other
74. thoughts; profound
75. thoughts; profound; about future
76. thoughts; worries; about domestic affairs
77. thoughts; worries; about things of little importance
78. dreams; sad
79. wearisome; tired
80. lethargic; tired
81. weakness
82. active memory; alternating with dullness; with weak memory; lethargic
83. irritability; while idle
84. wants to remain in bedAlso, if there are any physical symptoms, whether or not you feel they are related to your mental problems, be sure to tell me about them, and be as specific about them as possible.
Posted by LOOPS on April 21, 2004, at 16:52:37
In reply to Re: Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts » McPac, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 11, 2003, at 1:21:18
Ame -
Please, I would like to try a natural approach to depression, and found your above post very informative.
The only problem is, I live in Chile, and only a handful of site will ship here.
I want to buy the Master Formula and the Good Mood Tonic, but can find nowhere online which can ship these things to me.
Can you recommend any other brands/formulas that might be as good as these??
I hope I have not overstepped the mark in the email (yes I should read the rules) - if so I can always email you personally??
Thanks
Louisa
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2004, at 23:37:06
In reply to Re: Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extrac, posted by LOOPS on April 21, 2004, at 16:52:37
> Please, I would like to try a natural approach to depression...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups about natural approaches to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040418/msgs/338610.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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