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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Zabadoo on December 18, 2003, at 4:52:00
A few days ago I started taking Parnate 20mg. I had already been on Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Buspar. They all had very noticable side effects. But this Parnate has none. So I wondered if maybe the doctor gave me a placebo, since I had specifically requested a MAOI. I broke the tablet open and tasted it. Tasted like sugar. So the question is, can doctors prescribe placebos? Has this happened to anyone else?
Posted by linkadge on December 18, 2003, at 7:14:18
In reply to Doctor gave me a PLACEBO?, posted by Zabadoo on December 18, 2003, at 4:52:00
I don't think it is legal, but perhaps. For many parnate has few side effects, it is stimulating though, you don't notice that you are slightly more energised ??
Linkadge
Posted by Zabadoo on December 18, 2003, at 8:27:56
In reply to Re: Doctor gave me a PLACEBO?, posted by linkadge on December 18, 2003, at 7:14:18
> I don't think it is legal, but perhaps. For many parnate has few side effects, it is stimulating though, you don't notice that you are slightly more energised ??
>
> Linkadge
no side effects yet... no stimulation at all. never thought i'd be hoping for side-effects for proof of efficacy... maybe i should just give it some time
Posted by Bill LL on December 18, 2003, at 9:18:19
In reply to Doctor gave me a PLACEBO?, posted by Zabadoo on December 18, 2003, at 4:52:00
The answer to your question is no. Doctors cannot prescribe placebos unless you willingly sign up to agree to participate in a clinical trial.
Did the doctor give you samples of Parnate? If so, take a pill to a pharmacy and ask the pharmacist if it is Parnate. Or if you have a PDR you can look at a picture of parnate.
If you got the pill at a pharmacy, take it to a different pharmacy and ask that pharmacist.
But just because it tastes sweet doesn't necessarily mean its a placebo.
> A few days ago I started taking Parnate 20mg. I had already been on Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Buspar. They all had very noticable side effects. But this Parnate has none. So I wondered if maybe the doctor gave me a placebo, since I had specifically requested a MAOI. I broke the tablet open and tasted it. Tasted like sugar. So the question is, can doctors prescribe placebos? Has this happened to anyone else?
Posted by linkadge on December 18, 2003, at 9:22:16
In reply to Doctor gave me a PLACEBO?, posted by Zabadoo on December 18, 2003, at 4:52:00
Did he give it to you right in his office, or at the pharmacy??
For starters, parnate is a red pill about the looks of an advil, did you say he gave you a capsule ??, this would not be parnate then.
Did you say 20 mg of the stuff, parnate only comes in sizes of 10mg. This is one drug that you should notice an effect right away - it has a stimulant metabolite. I would bring the drug to the pharmacist and ask what it is.
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2003, at 10:34:17
In reply to Doctor gave me a PLACEBO?, posted by Zabadoo on December 18, 2003, at 4:52:00
> A few days ago I started taking Parnate 20mg. I had already been on Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Buspar. They all had very noticable side effects. But this Parnate has none. So I wondered if maybe the doctor gave me a placebo, since I had specifically requested a MAOI. I broke the tablet open and tasted it. Tasted like sugar. So the question is, can doctors prescribe placebos? Has this happened to anyone else?
The information in the PDR included the following:
Each round, rose-red, film-coated tablet is imprinted with the product name PARNATE and SKF and contains tranylcypromine sulfate equivalent to 10 mg of tranylcypromine. Inactive ingredients consist of cellulose, citric acid, croscarmellose sodium, D&C Red No. 7, FD&C Blue No. 2, FD&C Red No. 40, FD&C Yellow No. 6, gelatin, iron oxide, lactose, magnesium stearate, talc, titanium dioxide and trace amounts of other inactive ingredients.
NOTE: Parnate (tranylcypromine sulfate) tablets have been changed from rose-red sugar-coated tablets to rose-red film-coated tablets. The film-coated tablets differ in size from the sugar-coated tablets, but the drug content remains unchanged.
Note: Parnate tablets (old stock) are sugar-coated.....Even the new ones contain lactose, which may taste sweet to some people.
Lar
Posted by Sebastian on December 18, 2003, at 11:55:14
In reply to Doctor gave me a PLACEBO?, posted by Zabadoo on December 18, 2003, at 4:52:00
Did the doctor give you a prescription? Did you read it. I kind of doubt they even carry a placebo, even if it was a sample. Some times it is posible to get fake meds. On the news, people sell fake meds to pharmacys, most get caught, but they say on rare occasions not in time. ??
Posted by mattdds on December 18, 2003, at 12:42:41
In reply to Re: Doctor gave me a PLACEBO? » Zabadoo, posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2003, at 10:34:17
Hey Larry,
First off, what's up man? How's the sleep issue?
I'm not sure if you know, but I trialed Parnate back in August, and stayed on it for about a month. I worked up to 40 mg daily, and I swear, I was having a positive response to it. I felt more motivated, mood was enhanced and everything was going well. Concentration was excellent.
Then, I started getting high blood pressure. They weren't exactly spikes, but more like waves where my BP would rise slowly to about 185/100, pretty high considering my baseline is normal 120/80. Interestingly, this would happen only in the afternoon...in the morning, my blood pressure would tend to run *lower* than baseline (sometimes like 105/60!).
These episodes were not related to food...I followed the dietary requirements to a T. One day I even tried fasting and it still happened. This seemed to rule out a tyramine reaction.
Anyway, my doc promptly pulled me off of it (bummer), and when I asked about a Nardil trial, he said it would do the same thing (i.e. create BP problems).
Hmm, I always wonder if he was just talking out his ass here, or didn't know the real answer, because I see abstracts regarding spontaneous *tranylcypromine* HTN episodes, but not with phenelzine or other hydrazine derivatives.
Tranylcypromine has some known intrinsic indirect acting sympathomimetic / vasopressor effects, if I'm not mistaken, and phenelzine does not. Am I right here?
Just want to get some good info, because I responded so well to Parnate that I really was wanting to try Nardil, and I didn't think the rationale for not letting me try it (i.e. it would do the same thing as Parnate) was well founded. Even if it was, I could always monitor BP readings and see, but my doc was pretty adamate. Bummer. Only issue with switching docs is he is the only guy that will prescribe Klonopin, so I don't want to wreck a good thing. Plus, overall, I'm happy with him.
Any thoughts?
TIA (thanks in advance, not transient ischemic attacks ;))
Matt
Posted by linkadge on December 18, 2003, at 18:01:39
In reply to *Larry* - Parnate / MOAI question » Larry Hoover, posted by mattdds on December 18, 2003, at 12:42:41
I had the exact same reaction to parnate. I had waves of high blood pressure that went up to 160/100, normal 120/70. When I read your post I was wondering if it was me who wrote that.
I too was having an excellent responce to it. The doctor took me off of it, and the hell I waited to get on on it was 10 times worse knowing I had to return to numbing SSRI's. Oh well, I feel ok, just not normal.
Best of Luck
Linkadge
Posted by mattdds on December 18, 2003, at 23:31:20
In reply to Re: *Larry* - Parnate / MOAI question, posted by linkadge on December 18, 2003, at 18:01:39
Linkadge,
So odd isn't it? I know with a good deal of certainty that it wasn't food (tyramine) induced, because I even tried fasting one day.
Did you ever do a trial of Nardil? If so, did it have the same effect on your BP? I really think that the likelihood is much less with phenelzine, but this is just a hunch.
The sad thing is, I found Parnate to be so much more tolerable than the SSRI's in terms of side-effects, other than the obvious blood-pressure thing. Seriously, that baby was almost devoid of side-effects!
I'm still so curious about Nardil, but I'm doing so well right now that it probably wouldn't be worth it at this juncture. It's nice to know there might be something there that may work if I ever get out of control depressed again. I am in full remission right now.
Best,
Matt
Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2003, at 7:00:39
In reply to Re: *Larry* - Parnate / MOAI question » linkadge, posted by mattdds on December 18, 2003, at 23:31:20
No, like you my doctor wouldn't let me try nardil. Infact we were going to tyr nardil to begin with but the there was a shortage in the area, and so he switched. I guess the assumption was that nardil would do the same thing.
Yeah, the parnate was pretty clean. I mean I had no side effects. The only thing was feeling a little bit jittery, you know acid in the stomach, possibly due to the adrenergic enhancement.
It was working well, I mean emotions were coming back that I hadn't realized existed.
Anyhow, I guess I need to look foward :)
Linkadge.
This is the end of the thread.
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