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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by LLL on August 8, 2002, at 13:12:45
In reply to Re: Aurorix Parnate Side Effects, posted by Mischief on August 8, 2002, at 2:43:00
I'm female, of normal weight and normal libido. Parnate caused some insomnia but with increased energy during the day, so it basically didn't matter, increased libido, decreased weight and appetite (to some degree) and dry mouth.
Posted by Maximus on August 8, 2002, at 14:12:01
In reply to Aurorix Parnate Side Effects, posted by Mischief on August 8, 2002, at 0:15:27
Posted by LLL on August 8, 2002, at 17:10:46
In reply to OT: Moclobemide rules as AD! (nm), posted by Maximus on August 8, 2002, at 14:12:01
Posted by Maximus on August 8, 2002, at 21:44:55
In reply to Because?????????????? (nm) » Maximus, posted by LLL on August 8, 2002, at 17:10:46
I do not want to worship Moclobemide. It would not be helpful for all of us.
But grosso modo, Moclobemide is a Parnate (kind of) without the dietary restriction, agitation and blood pressure problem. I assume you know all the well, good and merit that Parnate has. It is the same for Moclobemide without these side effects. In fact, its side effect profile is extremely low. For me, it is a winner.
It is a reversible MAOI. At different dosage, it is either a MAOI type A (5HT1 and NE) or MAOI type B (mainly DA) at higher dosage, i.e. 600 to 900 mg a day.
The downside, it is expensive and you have to take it 3 times a day.
Hope that helps!
Posted by LLL on August 8, 2002, at 22:41:26
In reply to Re: Because... » LLL, posted by Maximus on August 8, 2002, at 21:44:55
I've read about it, but I keep seeing statements to the effect that it's "less effective" than Parnate and Nardil. I also read that they now recommend some of the same dietary restrictions - no?
Do you use it for depression? or panic/anxiety?
Posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 0:28:20
In reply to Re: Aurorix Parnate Side Effects, posted by Mischief on August 8, 2002, at 2:43:00
> With the two answers you gave as to weight loss and increased libido. Were you overweight? Did you have a normal libido? Are you Male of Female?
> I ask this because I have problems in both those areas.no i am a skinny bastard... and i would say my libido was lowered by depression, parnate brought it up quite a bit, even before antidepressant effect set in....
i don't think you have to worry about your libido on parnate...
Posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 0:32:13
In reply to Re: Because... » Maximus, posted by LLL on August 8, 2002, at 22:41:26
> I've read about it, but I keep seeing statements to the effect that it's "less effective" than Parnate and Nardil. I also read that they now recommend some of the same dietary restrictions - no?
yeah i hear it's less effective too... but that might just be because the dose used is too low (but of course with increased dose comes increased dietary restrictions)
... so Lisa do you get agitation from parnate as well ?
Posted by turalizz on August 9, 2002, at 2:34:16
In reply to Re: Because... » LLL, posted by Maximus on August 8, 2002, at 21:44:55
> It is a reversible MAOI. At different dosage, it is either a MAOI type A (5HT1 and NE) or MAOI type B (mainly DA) at higher dosage, i.e. 600 to 900 mg a day.
>
> The downside, it is expensive and you have to take it 3 times a day.
>
> Hope that helps!5-HT and NE are metabolized by MAO-A, dopamine is metabolized by both MAO-A and MAO-B. So, moclobemide increases dopamine as well as 5-HT and NE.
Actually, it is the MAO-A that metabolizes the synaptic dopamine.A single 300 mg dose inhibits 80% of MAO-A and 20-30% of MAO-B.
Besides its selectivity, moclobemide is also a reversible MAOI, the inhibition lasts for 24 hours. So, you don't have to wait for weeks before switching to another AD.
cem
Posted by Mischief on August 9, 2002, at 4:16:41
In reply to Re: Aurorix Parnate Side Effects, posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 0:28:20
If parnate was going to work how long would it take to start working? Does the insomnia go away after awhile? What is the usual dose? Where can I get a full list of the diet? Can you ever eat something that is on the diet?
Thanks
Posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 8:07:38
In reply to Re: Aurorix Parnate Side Effects, posted by Mischief on August 9, 2002, at 4:16:41
> If parnate was going to work how long would it take to start working? Does the insomnia go away after awhile? What is the usual dose? Where can I get a full list of the diet? Can you ever eat something that is on the diet?
parnate is kind of strange, because in the beginning you get a stimulant effect, then the stimulant wears off, then you get the antidepressant effect ...
the insomnia has gotten better in my case... even though i am stupid enough to take the last pill right before i go to bed :)
the diet for me is something like:
no marmite, aged cheese, bad alcohol, aged soy products, aged meats/meat paste
there is relatively no inconvenience for me at all -- except i don't touch alcohol, which i wouldn't touch on any antidepressant
i don't know why you would ever want to eat anything on the diet... i mean if 10 cheeses are okay and one cheese is going to hurt you, why bother with that one cheese?
or soy sauce... if i know for sure that one soy sauce is okay, why would i bother with one that wasn't? .. is it going to taste any better?
you can't beat kikkoman man
Posted by LLL on August 9, 2002, at 8:57:17
In reply to Re: Because..., posted by cybercafe on August 9, 2002, at 0:32:13
I'm not sure what you mean by agitation. Right now on a very low dose (only 10mg/day - I have to take it very slow) I feel a little speedy and tense. But before when I was on it and up to 50mgs/day my anxiety/panic and agoraphobia was tremendously decreased and I remember feeling more relaxed and confident.
Posted by LLL on August 9, 2002, at 9:04:18
In reply to Re: Aurorix Parnate Side Effects, posted by Mischief on August 9, 2002, at 4:16:41
If you put in "MAOI diet" under search on this site you'll pull up some long recent threads on the diet - some very useful information. I also highly recommend reading this article: http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html
Posted by cybercafe on August 10, 2002, at 7:57:40
In reply to Re: Because... » cybercafe, posted by LLL on August 9, 2002, at 8:57:17
> I'm not sure what you mean by agitation. Right now on a very low dose (only 10mg/day - I have to take it very slow) I feel a little speedy and tense. But before when I was on it and up to 50mgs/day my anxiety/panic and agoraphobia was tremendously decreased and I remember feeling more relaxed and confident.
Yes yes tense -- so does this tenseness go away at higher dosages or with time?
Posted by LLL on August 10, 2002, at 9:55:39
In reply to Re: Because..., posted by cybercafe on August 10, 2002, at 7:57:40
I really don't remember feeling tense on it before so I can only assume that it wasn't an issue. I remember feeling confident and comfortable and doing lots of new things.
Posted by tina on August 10, 2002, at 11:37:34
In reply to Re: Aurorix » Mischief, posted by turalizz on August 8, 2002, at 1:24:41
that's all I had as a side effect of moclobemide.
good luck
tina
Posted by IsoM on August 10, 2002, at 13:30:40
In reply to Re: Because..., posted by cybercafe on August 10, 2002, at 7:57:40
Interesting. I never considered that the anger I felt on it was agitation but I guess maybe that was it. I found it too much, almost out-of-control rage - not that I did anything but it took a lot to keep the lid on my rage. People would look at me & step out of my way. I didn't like it & couldn't continue it. I remember asking my doctor about the rage, & perhaps because it was fairly new still, he hadn't heard of it before.
Posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 5:08:48
In reply to Re: agitation... » cybercafe, posted by IsoM on August 10, 2002, at 13:30:40
> Interesting. I never considered that the anger I felt on it was agitation but I guess maybe that was it. I found it too much, almost out-of-control rage - not that I did anything but it took a lot to keep the lid on my rage. People would look at me & step out of my way. I didn't like it & couldn't continue it. I remember asking my doctor about the rage, & perhaps because it was fairly new still, he hadn't heard of it before.
... hmmm.. i think rage may be caused by high testosterone and low serotonin... so maybe when you first start taking it (i.e. where i am now) the testosterone goes up due to the stimulant effects but the serotonin level hasn't returned to normal... so you get the rage...
i like it when (bad) people step out of my way...
or more precisely... when bullies and such think twice about pushing me around...
thanks to the anti-anxiety effects i can socialize and shower those i respect with love :)
unfortunately... bastards still bud in front of me in line ..... must...... resist..... urge..... to ...... kill......
Posted by LLL on August 11, 2002, at 9:33:48
In reply to Re: agitation..., posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 5:08:48
I've been taking 10 mgs of Parnate for the last 10 days divided into two doses. Yesterday I moved up to taking the whole pill in the morning. Not only did I definetly feel tense, but I felt really WEIRD, like I had taken a cold or decogestant pill. So yes, tense I was and weird and scared by all of the above. I was anxious all night about how I was feeling and have taken two steps backwards. I think I will have to go back to the divided dose and slowly decrease the time between the two! At this rate, it'll be months before I'm at a therapeutic dose - if I ever get there! Starting to feel hopeless again.
Posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 11:14:01
In reply to Re: agitation... » cybercafe, posted by LLL on August 11, 2002, at 9:33:48
>between the two! At this rate, it'll be months before I'm at a therapeutic dose - if I ever get there! Starting to feel hopeless again.
Hey don't be so negative :)
Worst case scenario you can try a benzo or an anticonvulsant or a sleep aid (e.g. trazodone) to help you through
(i don't bother to say "discuss this with your doc first" as i assume you don't have your own script pad at home :) )
Posted by IsoM on August 12, 2002, at 2:17:23
In reply to Re: agitation..., posted by cybercafe on August 11, 2002, at 5:08:48
Nope, more like low testosterone. I should know - I'm female & not at all scary. Not at 5'5" & 120 lb. My depression doesn't manifest itself as sadness, but blackness, bleakness, & anger.
Posted by cybercafe on August 12, 2002, at 9:51:24
In reply to Re: agitation and testosterone » cybercafe, posted by IsoM on August 12, 2002, at 2:17:23
> Nope, more like low testosterone. I should know - I'm female & not at all scary. Not at 5'5" & 120 lb. My depression doesn't manifest itself as sadness, but blackness, bleakness, & anger.
hmm... actually the testosterone thing i am basing on studies on intermittent explosive disorder and dudes-who-take-steroids-to-lift-more-weight-and-then-become-enraged... don't women have small amounts of testosterone? ... i don't know.......
Posted by IsoM on August 12, 2002, at 13:36:21
In reply to Re: agitation and testosterone, posted by cybercafe on August 12, 2002, at 9:51:24
Yes, women make androgens & men also make estrogen, both is very small amounts. But it's not hormone imbalances with me. Mine are fine. It was simply a direct side effect of taking Manerix with me.
Sometimes, just looking at one set of hormones or chemicals in our body is taking a simplistic view of how complicated & inter-related our endocrine, immune, & other systems are. There are many other factors to take into account when one feels a certain emotion. Looking at one system only can sometimes lead to falso assumptions.
Posted by cybercafe on August 12, 2002, at 14:49:47
In reply to Re: agitation and testosterone » cybercafe, posted by IsoM on August 12, 2002, at 13:36:21
> Sometimes, just looking at one set of hormones or chemicals in our body is taking a simplistic view of how complicated & inter-related our endocrine, immune, & other systems are. There are many other factors to take into account when one feels a certain emotion. Looking at one system only can sometimes lead to falso assumptions.
Well said :)
I wonder how quickly diagnostic tools will advance.
It would be nice to have my own MRI
Posted by jsarirose on August 14, 2002, at 0:09:45
In reply to Re: agitation and testosterone, posted by cybercafe on August 12, 2002, at 14:49:47
> It would be nice to have my own MRIYes! I can't imagine the day when they can actually do some kind of quantifiable test to find the most appropriate drug instead of playing rat. I've probably tried over 30 drugs & even more combos.
And since I joined this discussion late - here are my two cents on two of the topics:
My libido was low only because of the last anti I was on, it's now a bit higher than usual. I also lost weight with decreased appetite, feeling better, and feeling less compulsive (I was/am overweight).
And the diet is fairly complex when you get down to details, but in general you have to avoid aged things (meats, soy, cheeses, etc - anything aged).
-Jessica
Posted by fritz on November 13, 2003, at 19:24:47
In reply to Re: Aurorix Parnate Side Effects, posted by Mischief on August 9, 2002, at 4:16:41
since starting Parnate, I've experienced EXTREME exhaustion (depressions better)--but extreme fatigue keeps me taking naps---anyone else out there experience this?
This is the end of the thread.
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