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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sac on October 28, 2003, at 16:51:35
I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the atypical antipsychotics for delusions related to bipolar II disorder. I function very well in my daily life but am sometimes bothered by strange thoughts. Some are paranoid, like other people have the evil eye on me . And I question my reality. I'm also wondering whether delusions can be a side effect of Prozac which I am currently on and I have been off and on for over 8 years with Prozac. I'm also on low dose Depakote and Lamictal to control mood swings. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Posted by Lazarus on October 28, 2003, at 17:55:10
In reply to atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by sac on October 28, 2003, at 16:51:35
I am also Bipolar II (rapid cycler). You should probably not be taking Prozac if you are BP II. Antidepressants exacerbate the mood swings.
I take atypical antipsychotics and they help considerably in stabilizing my mood. They also help in my interactions with people (I avoid confrontations).
Posted by cybercafe on October 29, 2003, at 0:02:44
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by Lazarus on October 28, 2003, at 17:55:10
> I am also Bipolar II (rapid cycler). You should probably not be taking Prozac if you are BP II. Antidepressants exacerbate the mood swings.
depends on the antidepressant... strong serotonergic effects, like celexa, tend to cause mood stability ... in my case, far too much mood stability
anyways, for me i've found low dose zyprexa and abilify work fine for mood stability, with no side effects
> I take atypical antipsychotics and they help considerably in stabilizing my mood. They also help in my interactions with people (I avoid confrontations).hmmm... i think i need something that will encourage me to seek confrontations
Posted by Sabina on October 29, 2003, at 12:14:07
In reply to atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by sac on October 28, 2003, at 16:51:35
atypicals definitely helped to diminish the voices and hallucinations associated with my BPII that i had lived with for years and simply didn't acknowledge to anyone.
most of it seemed to be other frequencies or levels that would get all mixed and bleed through. usually it wasn't especially bothersome and sometimes it was almost entertaining, but *not* when i was having trouble functioning.
even though some people are afraid of this class of drugs for their side effect profile at higher doses, seroquel was highly effective (for me) even at miniscule doses compared to how they're prescribed for schizophrenics.
Posted by sac on October 29, 2003, at 15:07:32
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by Lazarus on October 28, 2003, at 17:55:10
Thanks for your input. What medications are you currently on? I am afraid to stop the prozac because I always relapse into depression. Anyway, I'm always in a chronic low grade depression anyway, it seems resistant at this point. I'm also on low dose depakote and lamictal. Thanks.
I am also Bipolar II (rapid cycler). You should probably not be taking Prozac if you are BP II. Antidepressants exacerbate the mood swings.
>
> I take atypical antipsychotics and they help considerably in stabilizing my mood. They also help in my interactions with people (I avoid confrontations).
>
Posted by Lazarus on October 29, 2003, at 18:27:43
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by sac on October 29, 2003, at 15:07:32
> Thanks for your input. What medications are you currently on? I am afraid to stop the prozac because I always relapse into depression. Anyway, I'm always in a chronic low grade depression anyway, it seems resistant at this point. I'm also on low dose depakote and lamictal. Thanks.
I take Abilify, Strattera and Lamictal in the morning; Zyprexa and lithium in the evening.
Ask your doctor about replacing the Prozac with Strattera. It is a mild stimulant with antidepressant action. I like it a lot; it is much better than the Wellbutrin which I took for years.
Your depression will lift once you get off the Prozac and stick with just mood stabilizers. By the way, I really like Abilify.
Lazarus
Posted by sac on October 29, 2003, at 21:05:03
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by Lazarus on October 29, 2003, at 18:27:43
Thanks for the information. I tried Strattera once for some overlapping ADD features (extreme distraction, inability to complete tasks, disorganization) I was troubled by the side effect of anxiety/fear. It made me feel very strange. I was on Zyprexa briefly which wiped me out but I may look into Abilify. By the way, I'm also on a low dose of Wellbutrin SR (50mgs) because I can't tolerate going higher. I wonder if I should just go off of this too.
> Thanks for your input. What medications are you currently on? I am afraid to stop the prozac because I always relapse into depression. Anyway, I'm always in a chronic low grade depression anyway, it seems resistant at this point. I'm also on low dose depakote and lamictal. Thanks.
>
> I take Abilify, Strattera and Lamictal in the morning; Zyprexa and lithium in the evening.
>
> Ask your doctor about replacing the Prozac with Strattera. It is a mild stimulant with antidepressant action. I like it a lot; it is much better than the Wellbutrin which I took for years.
>
> Your depression will lift once you get off the Prozac and stick with just mood stabilizers. By the way, I really like Abilify.
>
> Lazarus
Posted by Lazarus on October 29, 2003, at 21:52:19
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by sac on October 29, 2003, at 21:05:03
> Thanks for the information. I tried Strattera once for some overlapping ADD features (extreme distraction, inability to complete tasks, disorganization) I was troubled by the side effect of anxiety/fear. It made me feel very strange. I was on Zyprexa briefly which wiped me out but I may look into Abilify. By the way, I'm also on a low dose of Wellbutrin SR (50mgs) because I can't tolerate going higher. I wonder if I should just go off of this too.
Try Strattera again. The first few days I was on it I experienced the same thing; a very strange feeling. But after a week the strange feeling left and was replaced with a feeling of confidence.
Ask your doctor about Abilify for your BPII. I've been on it for about six months and have found it to be not only a good mood stabilizer but also good for paranoia and delusions. The only problem with it is that as it builds up in your system you get a "stoned robot" feeling.
Lazarus
Posted by sac on October 30, 2003, at 10:04:48
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by Lazarus on October 29, 2003, at 21:52:19
> > Thanks for the information. I tried Strattera once for some overlapping ADD features (extreme distraction, inability to complete tasks, disorganization) I was troubled by the side effect of anxiety/fear. It made me feel very strange. I was on Zyprexa briefly which wiped me out but I may look into Abilify. By the way, I'm also on a low dose of Wellbutrin SR (50mgs) because I can't tolerate going higher. I wonder if I should just go off of this too.
>
> Try Strattera again. The first few days I was on it I experienced the same thing; a very strange feeling. But after a week the strange feeling left and was replaced with a feeling of confidence.
>
> Ask your doctor about Abilify for your BPII. I've been on it for about six months and have found it to be not only a good mood stabilizer but also good for paranoia and delusions. The only problem with it is that as it builds up in your system you get a "stoned robot" feeling.
>
> Lazarus
Thanks, I will consider the strattera again and ask my doctor about Abilify.
>
Posted by cybercafe on November 1, 2003, at 19:25:30
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by sac on October 30, 2003, at 10:04:48
> > > Thanks for the information. I tried Strattera once for some overlapping ADD features (extreme distraction, inability to complete tasks, disorganization) I was troubled by the side effect of anxiety/fear. It made me feel very strange. I was on Zyprexa briefly which wiped me out but I may look into Abilify. By the way, I'm also on a low dose of Wellbutrin SR (50mgs) because I can't tolerate going higher. I wonder if I should just go off of this too.
> >
> > Try Strattera again. The first few days I was on it I experienced the same thing; a very strange feeling. But after a week the strange feeling left and was replaced with a feeling of confidence.
> >
> > Ask your doctor about Abilify for your BPII. I've been on it for about six months and have found it to be not only a good mood stabilizer but also good for paranoia and delusions. The only problem with it is that as it builds up in your system you get a "stoned robot" feeling.
> >
> > Lazarus
>
>
> Thanks, I will consider the strattera again and ask my doctor about Abilify.hmmm... i don't find abilify has any noticeable side effects at these low doses
lazarus: what is this "stoned robot" feeling, and are you sure it's not related to zyprexa (which did make me feel like sitting down and staring out into space a bit)
Posted by karen_kay on November 2, 2003, at 11:36:56
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by cybercafe on November 1, 2003, at 19:25:30
I'm on Abilify, 15 mgs at bedtime. I have Bipolar I. I have not noticed any side effects with antipsychotic at all. I have taken Zyprexa, Seroquel and Geodon in the past. The particular reason I take Abilify is because it doesn't cause weight gain and their is research to support the fact that it helps to control manic episodes. You may want to check into it! I have had great results! Yahoo! Karen
Bye the way, Geodon was succesful for a while, but I developed Akathesia... good grief! That was scary! Of course I am not saying everyone does, but that was my first encounter with a major side effect from a medication and I would like to avoid that again at all costs.
Posted by Lazarus on November 3, 2003, at 0:52:01
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by cybercafe on November 1, 2003, at 19:25:30
> lazarus: what is this "stoned robot" feeling, and are you sure it's not related to zyprexa (which did make me feel like sitting down and staring out into space a bit)The "stoned robot" feeling I get only occurs when I take Abilify. I don't get it when I take only Zyprexa.
What I mean by the feeling is that I am able to function at work, I feel my arms and legs moving, but there's nothing going on in my head; there's a complete absence of SOMETHING and I can't put my finger on it. It's like when I used to smoke pot and the next day I couldn't think deeply; thus the "stoned robot" feeling.
Lazarus
Posted by cybercafe on November 3, 2003, at 16:25:17
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by Lazarus on November 3, 2003, at 0:52:01
>
> > lazarus: what is this "stoned robot" feeling, and are you sure it's not related to zyprexa (which did make me feel like sitting down and staring out into space a bit)
>
> The "stoned robot" feeling I get only occurs when I take Abilify. I don't get it when I take only Zyprexa.
>
> What I mean by the feeling is that I am able to function at work, I feel my arms and legs moving, but there's nothing going on in my head; there's a complete absence of SOMETHING and I can't put my finger on it. It's like when I used to smoke pot and the next day I couldn't think deeply; thus the "stoned robot" feeling.
>
> Lazarus
>
>
>
weird... maybe that's what it's like to feel "normal"? .. but i'm surprised you're getting something so noticeable on only 2mg or 4 mg?i dunno....... maybe i would feel the same thing if i weren't distracted by depression, hmmmmmm
Posted by Lazarus on November 3, 2003, at 21:35:16
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by cybercafe on November 3, 2003, at 16:25:17
> i dunno....... maybe i would feel the same thing if i weren't distracted by depression, hmmmmmm
If you have too much dopamine in your system you act like a maniac and the doc gives you an antipsychotic.If you have too little dopamine in your system you end up depressed. That may be your case. Have you tried going off the antipsychotic?
Lazarus
Posted by cybercafe on November 3, 2003, at 22:35:19
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by Lazarus on November 3, 2003, at 21:35:16
> > i dunno....... maybe i would feel the same thing if i weren't distracted by depression, hmmmmmm
>
>
> If you have too much dopamine in your system you act like a maniac and the doc gives you an antipsychotic.hmmm... supposedly abilify is a dopamine system stabilizer ..... i don't know if i have to wait for my antidepressant to have some kind of NE or Dopamine downregulation ........ or just 5HT
> If you have too little dopamine in your system you end up depressed. That may be your case. Have you tried going off the antipsychotic?last week i actually felt a little psychotic and depressed.... so the dopamine is getting to my thought centers, but not my pleasure centers :(
Posted by karen_kay on November 4, 2003, at 8:59:07
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by cybercafe on November 3, 2003, at 22:35:19
I think the "stoned robot feeling" could sound like fun maybe for a few days.. just for a break.. just for me though.. not implying that you should live with it or anything, I just like to get weird side effects from drugs like that.. Anythign but Akathesia! Man, that sucks. I too am surprised that you are getting side effects from a small dosage, but some of us have different levels of tollerance. I would suggest you stick with the Abilify if the side effects aren't too bothersome, because it has mood stabilizing capabilities. Karen
Posted by Lazarus on November 4, 2003, at 17:46:35
In reply to Re: atypical antipsychotics for bipolar II, posted by karen_kay on November 4, 2003, at 8:59:07
Karen, the "stoned robot feeling" is fine for a day or two but after that I have to snap out of it as I'm in a profession that requires strong cognitive functioning. I think you know what I mean.
Yes, I'm on a small dose (2.5 - 3.75 mg/daily). My doc calls it micro-dosing. I think it may be psychological; I view medicines as poisons and only want to take the minimum dosage necessary to solve the condition.
I really like Abilify's activating properties. The problem is that sometimes I think it's not controlling the mania well enough. If I don't take lithium with it I still get high, though it's a calm high.
Having BPII is a blessing and a curse.
Lazarus
This is the end of the thread.
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