![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bob on October 24, 2003, at 20:01:39
Why are about 95% of the MAOI related posts on this board about Nardil. Is it a reflection of the fact that Nardil is far and above the others, the most effective? Are Parnate and the others not nearly as good? Is there possibly a reluctance to prescribe the others for some non-medical reason?
Posted by ace on October 25, 2003, at 0:49:44
In reply to Nardil vs. Parnate: Relative Effectiveness, posted by Bob on October 24, 2003, at 20:01:39
> Why are about 95% of the MAOI related posts on this board about Nardil. Is it a reflection of the fact that Nardil is far and above the others, the most effective? Are Parnate and the others not nearly as good? Is there possibly a reluctance to prescribe the others for some non-medical reason?
Both are very good drugs. However, Nardil has the most consistently positive results. Indeed, it is very rare you find a non-respondent to Nardil. Parnate can really produce great responses, too.
When asked whether there was any alternative to Nardil, Fredrick Quitken MD replied (and I paraphrase): "No. It is the most effective medication. Effective in 95% of patients"
BTW, I might have spelt that dudes's name wrong! But he was a real pioneer for nardil in the early days. He did a lot of clinical trials whcih proved it's remarkable efficacy.
Ace.
Posted by cubbybear on October 26, 2003, at 4:43:13
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: Relative Effectiveness, posted by ace on October 25, 2003, at 0:49:44
Hello Bob,
Now you can hear the other side of the story and get a balanced view. I've never taken Nardil, but was put on Parnate back in 1984 during my first depressive episode. I had tried, for practical reasons only, to switch to Remeron (which pooped out), then Zoloft (which I disliked for various reasons), then Moclobemide (which is a fully different kind of MAOI, but it probably made my depression worse). I will probably be taking Parnate every day for the rest of my life since I have a chronic tendency toward major depression. But I've long accepted this, since Parnate has been my life-saver. If you have any other questions, please ask us self-appointed MAOI experts. We know more than many of the pdocs out there, who go on enjoying their ride on the SSRI bandwagon.
Posted by ace on October 26, 2003, at 18:52:48
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: Relative Effectiveness, posted by cubbybear on October 26, 2003, at 4:43:13
> Hello Bob,
> Now you can hear the other side of the story and get a balanced view."Both are great meds, however, Nardil is more consistent"- I don't think this is a balanced view.
Ace.
Posted by Ramon Paz on October 26, 2003, at 23:04:01
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: Relative Effectiveness » cubbybear, posted by ace on October 26, 2003, at 18:52:48
> > Hello Bob,
> > Now you can hear the other side of the story and get a balanced view.
>
> "Both are great meds, however, Nardil is more consistent"- I don't think this is a balanced view.
>
> Ace.Well, I already took Parnate but to social phobia(wich let me depresive). But not Parnate alone and mixed with other meds,and others combos made nothing to my SP( only rec drugs like morphine,anphetamines, but got addicted and got out) At the moment I am trying to stop with ritalin.
Now the question, if I go to Nardil( I can import to here) would it solve ot at least did something in my Social Phobia?(I can mix some other thing, but the comparation about Parnate and Nardil).
Tanks, rvp
Posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 0:12:01
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: Relative Effectiveness » cubbybear, posted by ace on October 26, 2003, at 18:52:48
> > Hello Bob,
> > Now you can hear the other side of the story and get a balanced view.
>
> "Both are great meds, however, Nardil is more consistent"- I don't think this is a balanced view.
>
> Ace.I meant- I don't think this is an UNBALANCED view!
Ace.
Posted by Bob on October 27, 2003, at 0:59:27
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: Relative Effectiveness » cubbybear » ace, posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 0:12:01
> > > Hello Bob,
> > > Now you can hear the other side of the story and get a balanced view.
> >
> > "Both are great meds, however, Nardil is more consistent"- I don't think this is a balanced view.
> >
> > Ace.
>
> I meant- I don't think this is an UNBALANCED view!
> Ace.Thanks for that clarification. Before that I was quite perplexed.
Posted by JonW on October 27, 2003, at 17:58:34
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: And to social phobia?, posted by Ramon Paz on October 26, 2003, at 23:04:01
> Well, I already took Parnate but to social phobia(wich let me depresive). But not Parnate alone and mixed with other meds,and others combos made nothing to my SP( only rec drugs like morphine,anphetamines, but got addicted and got out) At the moment I am trying to stop with ritalin.
> Now the question, if I go to Nardil( I can import to here) would it solve ot at least did something in my Social Phobia?(I can mix some other thing, but the comparation about Parnate and Nardil).
> Tanks, rvpIf I understand your question correctly, you are asking if there is reason to believe Nardil will work for your social anxiety in spite of the fact that parnate did not. Obviously, there's only one way to find out, but it is the single most effective med for social anxiety. A couple of years ago I was seeing Dr. Liebowitz (the anxiety guy) in NYC, and I asked him about Nardil. He told me Nardil was special. He sees some of the most treatment resistent people with social anxiety, and his view then was that Nardil is the best. Unfortunately, it also has a lot of side-effects and many people drop it for that reason. My experience on Nardil would support its efficacy in social anxiety and depression. It is one of the only meds that truly changed me. I mean, I didn't experience anxiety that I was expecting to while I was on it. It was sort of freaky, but in a good way :) Other meds I was on before Nardil only numbed me, but this med actually changed me into a significantly less anxious person. Unfortunately, the side-effects were too much. The most troublesome was the fact that I couldn't sleep while on it. I tried every sleep aid available, and was unable to ever get more that a couple hours of sleep. Anyway, I would certainly say it's worth a shot. You should discontinue Ritalin before starting Nardil, though.... or certainly be under an experienced pdoc's care before attempting that type of "cocktail".
Jon :)
Posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 19:56:11
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: And to social phobia? » Ramon Paz, posted by JonW on October 27, 2003, at 17:58:34
> > Well, I already took Parnate but to social phobia(wich let me depresive). But not Parnate alone and mixed with other meds,and others combos made nothing to my SP( only rec drugs like morphine,anphetamines, but got addicted and got out) At the moment I am trying to stop with ritalin.
> > Now the question, if I go to Nardil( I can import to here) would it solve ot at least did something in my Social Phobia?(I can mix some other thing, but the comparation about Parnate and Nardil).
> > Tanks, rvp
>
> If I understand your question correctly, you are asking if there is reason to believe Nardil will work for your social anxiety in spite of the fact that parnate did not. Obviously, there's only one way to find out, but it is the single most effective med for social anxiety. A couple of years ago I was seeing Dr. Liebowitz (the anxiety guy) in NYC, and I asked him about Nardil. He told me Nardil was special. He sees some of the most treatment resistent people with social anxiety, and his view then was that Nardil is the best. Unfortunately, it also has a lot of side-effects and many people drop it for that reason. My experience on Nardil would support its efficacy in social anxiety and depression. It is one of the only meds that truly changed me. I mean, I didn't experience anxiety that I was expecting to while I was on it. It was sort of freaky, but in a good way :) Other meds I was on before Nardil only numbed me, but this med actually changed me into a significantly less anxious person. Unfortunately, the side-effects were too much. The most troublesome was the fact that I couldn't sleep while on it. I tried every sleep aid available, and was unable to ever get more that a couple hours of sleep. Anyway, I would certainly say it's worth a shot. You should discontinue Ritalin before starting Nardil, though.... or certainly be under an experienced pdoc's care before attempting that type of "cocktail".
>
> Jon :)Hi Jon,
Since Nardil was so good for you have you considered re-starting? I say this because I have heard of people who had insomnia but once going off and then re-starting Nardil suffered no insomnia...wierd heh?!
Take Care,
Ace.
Posted by Jumpy on October 28, 2003, at 3:14:01
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: And to social phobia? » Ramon Paz, posted by JonW on October 27, 2003, at 17:58:34
Jon W ... what do you use now instead of nardil? Jumpy
BTW ... I have all the same side effects on nardil ... memory loss, insomnia, weight gain, short of breath, etc.
Posted by cbwarejr on October 28, 2003, at 5:52:41
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: And to social phobia?, posted by Jumpy on October 28, 2003, at 3:14:01
Finally figured out the posting process..sorry.
Help !!!
My wife 48 me 49 married Jan 1. I have known her 18 mths and knew she was depressed.
He x (a physician) first treated her 20 years ago. Depression probably contributed to first divorce but who knows. Probably the sexual side effects were the blame for the split but.?
Anyway. Wife has gone the whole medication routing. Side effects of everything seem to be worse with her.
She also has Avoidant Borderline Personality Disorder, major self esteem issues, feelings of guilt. She is size 6 beautiful, sexy, feels she is fat, ugly.
Parnate seemed to work best, but the main s/e is insomnia. She did not gain weight. But she has been taking tamezepam for 5 years almost nightly. I think she is hooked. She also used it to "check out" and to put herself to sleep when things are too much.
This summer because of the sleep deprivation and un-natural sleep she gets from tamezepam/Parnate combo she went off everything. great for 3 weeks, new person, great sleep, but depression kicked back in. Worse ever since...Worst inher life she says.
Went to new Dr. who started her on paxil. bad news, no sex drive, gained weight, felt like she had "no feelings', anxiety kicked back in.
Then went to Wellbutrin SR then Xl. but all this time she has been off/on tamezepam. I think she is going through withdrawl and dependence symptoms of sleeping med and it is masking whether the adepressents are working.
Her father depressed whole life, now on Remeron, Zyprexa and Celexa doing better.
She does not do well on Remeron.
Right now she is on Lexapro 10 mg. on it for just 6 days. but she still takes ambien or tamezepam here and there because of insomnia.
Currently no energy, wants to just sleep all the time, not motivation, life is horrible, life is not worth living, nothing ever changes, she sees her dad and knows that is the rest of her life, has no desire for affection, sex, touching. Does not have energy or motivation to do anything but go to work, come home barely get by. (we have 2 boys 13, 15) Cannot plan on anything because she is too tired. Anxiety is kicking in as is some other stuff. Feels like I am "watching" her. Overly reactive to small stuff, extremely moody, very sad, occassionally talks of suicide. Hides in closet and cries.
Does not want to take meds becasue 'there is no hope".Probably needs to go back on parnate. Is Nardil less of a problem with insomnia? If she gains weight, or it affects her libido it is a huge problem.
What are the issues with taking tamezepam at therapeutic dosage for years..can you become dependant. Scares me a little to have 60 ambiens or tamezepams around when she talks of life not worth living.
What about Nardil and some other combo with a anti psychotic.
She refuses to go to therapy because "it can't help" affects the whole family though..you know the routine.
Thanks
Posted by JonW on October 28, 2003, at 20:42:14
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: And to social phobia? » JonW, posted by ace on October 27, 2003, at 19:56:11
> Hi Jon,
>
> Since Nardil was so good for you have you considered re-starting? I say this because I have heard of people who had insomnia but once going off and then re-starting Nardil suffered no insomnia...wierd heh?!
>
> Take Care,
> Ace.Thanks for the tip Ace! There are many paths to remission, and for the moment, moclobemide + CBT is the most appealing to me. I'll keep Nardil in mind, though, if my sanity starts to slip again.
Jon :)
Posted by cybercafe on October 28, 2003, at 23:55:13
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: And to social phobia? » Jumpy, posted by cbwarejr on October 28, 2003, at 5:52:41
> Finally figured out the posting process..sorry.
>
> Help !!!
>
> My wife 48 me 49 married Jan 1. I have known her 18 mths and knew she was depressed.
>
> He x (a physician) first treated her 20 years ago. Depression probably contributed to first divorce but who knows. Probably the sexual side effects were the blame for the split but.?
>
> Anyway. Wife has gone the whole medication routing. Side effects of everything seem to be worse with her.
>
> She also has Avoidant Borderline Personality Disorder, major self esteem issues, feelings of guilt. She is size 6 beautiful, sexy, feels she is fat, ugly.
>
> Parnate seemed to work best, but the main s/e is insomnia. She did not gain weight. But she has been taking tamezepam for 5 years almost nightly. I think she is hooked. She also used it to "check out" and to put herself to sleep when things are too much.
>
> This summer because of the sleep deprivation and un-natural sleep she gets from tamezepam/Parnate combo she went off everything. great for 3 weeks, new person, great sleep, but depression kicked back in. Worse ever since...Worst inher life she says.
>
> Went to new Dr. who started her on paxil. bad news, no sex drive, gained weight, felt like she had "no feelings', anxiety kicked back in.
>
> Then went to Wellbutrin SR then Xl. but all this time she has been off/on tamezepam. I think she is going through withdrawl and dependence symptoms of sleeping med and it is masking whether the adepressents are working.
>
> Her father depressed whole life, now on Remeron, Zyprexa and Celexa doing better.
>
> She does not do well on Remeron.
>
> Right now she is on Lexapro 10 mg. on it for just 6 days. but she still takes ambien or tamezepam here and there because of insomnia.
>
> Currently no energy, wants to just sleep all the time, not motivation, life is horrible, life is not worth living, nothing ever changes, she sees her dad and knows that is the rest of her life, has no desire for affection, sex, touching. Does not have energy or motivation to do anything but go to work, come home barely get by. (we have 2 boys 13, 15) Cannot plan on anything because she is too tired. Anxiety is kicking in as is some other stuff. Feels like I am "watching" her. Overly reactive to small stuff, extremely moody, very sad, occassionally talks of suicide. Hides in closet and cries.
> Does not want to take meds becasue 'there is no hope".
>
> Probably needs to go back on parnate. Is Nardil less of a problem with insomnia? If she gains weight, or it affects her libido it is a huge problem.
>
> What are the issues with taking tamezepam at therapeutic dosage for years..can you become dependant. Scares me a little to have 60 ambiens or tamezepams around when she talks of life not worth living.
>
> What about Nardil and some other combo with a anti psychotic.
>
> She refuses to go to therapy because "it can't help" affects the whole family though..you know the routine.
>
> Thanks
>
>
sounds like my story.... went off parnate... tried effexor (couldn't tolerate SEs), celexa (partial responder) now im' going back on parnateparnate seems so unique to me in that it's the only drug i know of that energizes you and provides anxiety relief at the same time! it just doesn't sound fair! and this is at the lowest dose for me (30 mg) ....
Posted by ace on October 29, 2003, at 16:44:04
In reply to Re: Nardil vs. Parnate: And to social phobia?, posted by Jumpy on October 28, 2003, at 3:14:01
Where you been Jumpy? I fondly remember you posts when I was first starting the miracle called Nardil!
Are you on it now bro?
Take Care,
Ace.
Posted by Jumpy on October 29, 2003, at 21:57:00
In reply to Re: Hey Jumpy!, posted by ace on October 29, 2003, at 16:44:04
> Where you been Jumpy? I fondly remember you posts when I was first starting the miracle called Nardil!
>
> Are you on it now bro?
>
> Take Care,
> Ace.Hey Ace,
Actually, I haven't gone too far ... I have been reading the board on and off, just stopped posting for awhile. I guess our stories are very similar ... failed/minimal relief from every med except nardil. I am on year 5 of nardil .... 60mgs and .5 klonopin ... nothing else works (except exercise and low stress and beer ... lol).
Well, I have seen the "Godfather" of Nardil .. Dr. Quitken in the past. He told me nardil works 90% of the time on patients, but only 25% of the people can take the side effects. He actually told me that I could take some dexadrine with nardil to offset the afternoon sedation, sexual side effects and memory sluggishness. He uses prozac mainly now (mostly because of libby zion and her death on nardil and demerol .... actually it was the cocaine and nardil that may have cause her death).
Well, I'm sure you have read my story .... I am happy to hear your better! Congrads!
Jumpy
Posted by Bob on October 30, 2003, at 2:21:42
In reply to Re: Hey Jumpy! » ace, posted by Jumpy on October 29, 2003, at 21:57:00
> > Where you been Jumpy? I fondly remember you posts when I was first starting the miracle called Nardil!
> >
> > Are you on it now bro?
> >
> > Take Care,
> > Ace.
>
> Hey Ace,
>
> Actually, I haven't gone too far ... I have been reading the board on and off, just stopped posting for awhile. I guess our stories are very similar ... failed/minimal relief from every med except nardil. I am on year 5 of nardil .... 60mgs and .5 klonopin ... nothing else works (except exercise and low stress and beer ... lol).
>
> Well, I have seen the "Godfather" of Nardil .. Dr. Quitken in the past. He told me nardil works 90% of the time on patients, but only 25% of the people can take the side effects. He actually told me that I could take some dexadrine with nardil to offset the afternoon sedation, sexual side effects and memory sluggishness. He uses prozac mainly now (mostly because of libby zion and her death on nardil and demerol .... actually it was the cocaine and nardil that may have cause her death).
>
> Well, I'm sure you have read my story .... I am happy to hear your better! Congrads!
>
> Jumpy
>
>Damn! It's depressing to hear that only about 1/4 of people can tolerate Nardil. Did this Dr. Quitken say what side effects made people quit the most often?
Posted by Jumpy on October 30, 2003, at 12:52:19
In reply to Re: Hey Jumpy! » Jumpy, posted by Bob on October 30, 2003, at 2:21:42
> Damn! It's depressing to hear that only about 1/4 of people can tolerate Nardil. Did this Dr. Quitken say what side effects made people quit the most often?
No ... I didn't ask him which one ... I think alot of people are scared of the diet ... which is too bad, because the diet is easy and actually pretty healthy. For me, it is the degree of the side effects which is the worst. I had mild weight gain, memory problems, insomnia and sexual dysfunction from other meds ... but nardil put SOOOO much weight on and gives me total insomnia and moderate sexual dysfunction.
Jumpy
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.