![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on October 14, 2003, at 22:30:19
I'm itching all over! Yeah, even in thoses places! Ha Ha!
It's got better, but 2 weeks after restarting Nardil, there is still a bit of itching.
Doc tells me not to get my knickers in a not, it should pass.
Anyone had this effect?. I have no other signs of an allergic reaction.
Ace.
Posted by Liligoth on October 15, 2003, at 20:04:03
In reply to Nardil Itchiness!, posted by ace on October 14, 2003, at 22:30:19
hey Ace, dont know about nardil but parnate made me itchy & sweaty at high dose. That didnt lead to more problems. However, I got Extremely itchy on clomipramine then got a rash & started to swell up so watch for a rash that could indicate allergic reaction. Also to check for fluid retention press firmly with a fingertip into your shin & hold for a few seconds. Then run your fingers lightly over your shin & the area you pressed. If there is indentation still where you pressed you are swelling/retaining fluid.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 15, 2003, at 22:11:19
In reply to Nardil Itchiness!, posted by ace on October 14, 2003, at 22:30:19
Nice to see you back, Ace. :-)
I didn't have the itchiness with Nardil, but the tricyclics were absolutely awful in that regard. I don't know if Nardil causes histamine release (like most narcotics, especially codeine, which cause itchiness), but I'll see if I can look into it. For some odd reason I haven't been able to get a single search engine to work on my computer for about two weeks now. What a pain. I'd bet that's the issue here though since you've never had an allergic reaction to it before.
If the problem does end up lingering a bit or just takes too long to resolve, I'd suggest talking to a doc about hydroxyzine -- it's commonly prescribed for itching and works great for it. I don't believe there's an interaction with Nardil, though it is an antihistamine.
Posted by ace on October 17, 2003, at 2:05:21
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness! » ace, posted by Liligoth on October 15, 2003, at 20:04:03
> hey Ace, dont know about nardil but parnate made me itchy & sweaty at high dose. That didnt lead to more problems. However, I got Extremely itchy on clomipramine then got a rash & started to swell up so watch for a rash that could indicate allergic reaction. Also to check for fluid retention press firmly with a fingertip into your shin & hold for a few seconds. Then run your fingers lightly over your shin & the area you pressed. If there is indentation still where you pressed you are swelling/retaining fluid.
>Same thing happened with me on Clomipramine!
BTW, what are you on now? Have you been on Nardil? A fellow Aussie on Nardil....I couldn't believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You've used Parnate so your a legend IMO!
Ace.
Posted by ace on October 17, 2003, at 2:08:08
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness! » ace, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 15, 2003, at 22:11:19
> Nice to see you back, Ace. :-)
Thanks! Get ready for my crazy Nardil posts soon!
> I didn't have the itchiness with Nardil, but the tricyclics were absolutely awful in that regard. I don't know if Nardil causes histamine release (like most narcotics, especially codeine, which cause itchiness), but I'll see if I can look into it. For some odd reason I haven't been able to get a single search engine to work on my computer for about two weeks now. What a pain. I'd bet that's the issue here though since you've never had an allergic reaction to it before.
>
> If the problem does end up lingering a bit or just takes too long to resolve, I'd suggest talking to a doc about hydroxyzine -- it's commonly prescribed for itching and works great for it. I don't believe there's an interaction with Nardil, though it is an antihistamine.Thankfully, the itching now is very minimal and I believe in a couple of days it will dissipate alltogether. I had the same experinece with a TCA- Clomipramine. Itchy all over. And a lump appeared on a certain body part I will not mention!!!
Cheers,
Ace.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 17, 2003, at 3:48:32
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness! » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ace on October 17, 2003, at 2:08:08
> Thankfully, the itching now is very minimal and I believe in a couple of days it will dissipate alltogether.
That's great -- and I don't know why I didn't mention this in the last post, but if the itching ever does return, I'm sure some over-the-counter hydrocortisone cream would work just great (well, assuming hydrocortisone is OTC in Australia... I have no idea, lol). We always keep hydrocortisone cream and Benadryl itch cream around for just such an occasion. Very handy stuff to keep on hand.
> I had the same experinece with a TCA- Clomipramine. Itchy all over.
Clomipramine... that's another of the very, very few drugs I haven't tried. How was your experience with it? Sexual side effects? That's what I was most concerned with and the reason I never gave it a shot. But now that I've got my severe social phobia, agoraphobia, depression, ADD, panic, and OCD under control with Prozac, Wellbutrin XL, tramadol, clonazepam, and dextroamphetamine (without so much as a hint of a side effect, no less!) I suppose it doesn't really matter. Just curoius about clomipramine, since I came so close to trying it many times. Adding OxyContin on Monday for fibromyalgia and breakthrough depression... do you have Oxy in Australia? I'm pretty sure you've heard about it in the news due to all the hardcore abuse here in the States, but just in case I'll tell you it's a heavy-duty long-acting narcotic painkiller. Not my first choice of an antidepressant/painkiller but since nothing else helps, I'm certainly not going to complain, lol.
You're definitely quite "lucky" (if you want to call it that :-) that Nardil works so brilliantly for you. I just can't understand in the least how it can be that I took Nardil at 120mg for six months and had no effect -- I would've even been happy for a side effect! lol But I can't get over the fact that I took that high dose for so long with absolutely no change in my mental status. Truly sucks. I still wonder if I was getting the Nardil from the bad batch that was recalled last November... that could explain it. After all, my last prescription was filled in the beginning of November, and the recall occurred in mid-November. I wonder if there's any way at all to find out if the Nardil my local pharmacy was carrying at the time was the "sub-potent" stuff that was recalled. If so, I must say that really ticks me off. I was just SO sure the Nardil would work when I tried it... oh well. :-\
>And a lump appeared on a certain body part I will not mention!!!
lol, that's a new one! I hope it's gone away by now, lol.
Posted by Liligoth on October 17, 2003, at 5:56:06
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness! » Liligoth, posted by ace on October 17, 2003, at 2:05:21
hehehe that's quite a coincidence & my cat is on clomipramine too! Im on buprenorphine now & it is going very well. Since reading this board I have decided if it poops out I will be giving the Nardil a try.
cheers
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 17, 2003, at 6:28:18
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness! » ace, posted by Liligoth on October 17, 2003, at 5:56:06
Hi Lili,
I've heard about the recend trend in prescriptions of psychotropics for troubled animals (fluoxetine, for depression, and clomipramine, for separation anxiety, have made the headlines here... I don't know what the story is in Australia...). I was just wondering if you could tell me how your dog is doing on the clomipramine and what it's being used for? I assume separation anxiety since that's what it's so commonly prescribed here in the U.S. for (to dogs I mean, of course).
Our oldest cat (8 years) has been very sullen for the past several months, though she's usually so lively and extremely playful. Last visit to the vet about 10 months ago, we were told that she was an 8-year-old cat trapped in a newborn kitten's body, lol. We've always insisted on extensive tests at her biannual visits to the vet, and she's healthy as healthy can be. We're told that if she stays this healthy, we can expect her to live at least another 10 years, so we're sure it isn't old age that's causing the "depression". Anyway, I know these medications are prescribed for cats as well and was just wondering what your experience with a dog on clomipramine has been (though since she seems depressed, our cat will most likely receive fluoxetine if her vet deems it necessary to put her on medication).
The only thing I worry about is that a pet is unable to complain about side effects, and I surely don't want her to go on medication and suffer silently... of course that's assuming that animals are physiologically similar enough to experience all these same side effects. What are your thoughts on this? Or perhaps more importantly, how has your dog reacted? No weird, out-of-place behavior or anything of the like? I may as well say it -- this cat is my familiar. I'm a male witch and legally ordained High Priest of eclectic paganism... this kitty is my familiar... I'm just devastated that she's in her current state.
Also, I was wondering if you have any clue whether pets are limited to these two options... if not, I was hoping that a compounding pharmacy could prepare a dilution of a possibly less troublesome medication for our cat, though I can't imagine what that might be. She seemed just like her old self again not too long ago when we were having to administer pentobarbital by injection for a few days after she suffered a black widow bite and was in convulsions for a while. They had us administer the pentobarbital everyday for one week after the bite and during that time she was just... herself again.
I'd really appreciate anything at all you could share with me -- ciao! :-)
Posted by ace on October 18, 2003, at 0:25:11
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness! » ace, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 17, 2003, at 3:48:32
> Clomipramine... that's another of the very, very few drugs I haven't tried. How was your experience with it?
Within 4 days it caused a severe depression which required cessation (silly me, I was in the middle of a uni semester and changed...I needed to get stable so I could study, otherwise I might have gave it longer and saw if the depression passed)
Sexual side effects?
I noticed that I could orgasm VERY easily when I was on it.
That's what I was most concerned with and the reason I never gave it a shot. But now that I've got my severe social phobia, agoraphobia, depression, ADD, panic, and OCD under control with Prozac, Wellbutrin XL, tramadol, clonazepam, and dextroamphetamine (without so much as a hint of a side effect, no less!)Seriously? No s/effects? That's great!
I suppose it doesn't really matter. Just curoius about clomipramine, since I came so close to trying it many times.
I would urge a trial of it...
Adding OxyContin on Monday for fibromyalgia and breakthrough depression... do you have Oxy in Australia?
Not sure...
I'm pretty sure you've heard about it in the news due to all the hardcore abuse here in the States, but just in case I'll tell you it's a heavy-duty long-acting narcotic painkiller.
Actually, I never watch the news! So much focus on the negative things! I watch Seinfield! So thanks for the info.
Not my first choice of an antidepressant/painkiller but since nothing else helps, I'm certainly not going to complain, lol.Ame, have you tried any atypicals? What about Parnate? It just concerns me that your having breakthrough depression when your on 5 drugs. Once I read a post by a fellow who was suffering from psychosis in addition to many anxiety disorders and severe depression. He was on a great many drugs and only recieving partial response. Once he changed to Risperidone monotherapy ALL his symptoms cleared up.
Of course this isn't always possible. It must be frustrating for you to be still having this breakthrough depression. But you say most of your other probs are under control.
> You're definitely quite "lucky" (if you want to call it that :-) that Nardil works so brilliantly for you.
You are exactly right. When I am on Nardil I am Sooo confident I believe any drug will work as great as Nardil....until I stop the Nardil! Nardil helps so many aspects of my life. It really is a wonder drug.
I just can't understand in the least how it can be that I took Nardil at 120mg for six months and had no effect -- I would've even been happy for a side effect! lol But I can't get over the fact that I took that high dose for so long with absolutely no change in my mental status.Hmmm...how soon before you got up to that high dose? THAT might be the problem. I know when I get up that high depression creeps in. But at 90mg my smile is wide. When you started it, did you stay put at 60mg for 4 weeks. I ALWAYS advise this...tapering up too quick can cause all sorts of probs IMO...even lack of therapeutic response.
Also, what drugs were you concomitantly on when trying Nardil? Could they have interacted adversly with the Nardil?Truly sucks. I still wonder if I was getting the Nardil from the bad batch that was recalled last November... that could explain it.
You are right. It very well could have been that.
After all, my last prescription was filled in the beginning of November, and the recall occurred in mid-November. I wonder if there's any way at all to find out if the Nardil my local pharmacy was carrying at the time was the "sub-potent" stuff that was recalled. If so, I must say that really ticks me off. I was just SO sure the Nardil would work when I tried it... oh well. :-\I think it warrents another trial, Ame. Frankly, I find it VERY strange that it wouldn't work. In fact, and I've read a LOT of anecdotes on Nardil, I don't believe I have ever seen it NOT work. Those subpotent ones were around for a while. I'd say give it another go. When it works, boy, it'll be worth it!!
>
> >And a lump appeared on a certain body part I will not mention!!!
>
> lol, that's a new one! I hope it's gone away by now, lol.Sure has!
Good luck with the new drug, Ame. And give Nardil another shot! It is a miracle of psychopharmacology!!
Take care friend,
Ace.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 18, 2003, at 10:40:05
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness! » Ame Sans Vie, posted by ace on October 18, 2003, at 0:25:11
> > Clomipramine... that's another of the very, very few drugs I haven't tried. How was your experience with it?
>
> Within 4 days it caused a severe depression which required cessation (silly me, I was in the middle of a uni semester and changed...I needed to get stable so I could study, otherwise I might have gave it longer and saw if the depression passed)Wow, that's scary... of course that's probably fairly rare.
> Sexual side effects?
> I noticed that I could orgasm VERY easily when I was on it.
lol, now *that's* surprising.
> I suppose it doesn't really matter. Just curoius about clomipramine, since I came so close to trying it many times.
>
> I would urge a trial of it...I'm just so skeptical after trying *everything* else, you know? I'm afraid to waste a few months of my time trying something that has a 1 in a million chance of working on me...
> Not my first choice of an antidepressant/painkiller but since nothing else helps, I'm certainly not going to complain, lol.
>
> Ame, have you tried any atypicals? What about Parnate? It just concerns me that your having breakthrough depression when your on 5 drugs. Once I read a post by a fellow who was suffering from psychosis in addition to many anxiety disorders and severe depression. He was on a great many drugs and only recieving partial response. Once he changed to Risperidone monotherapy ALL his symptoms cleared up.Parnate I haven't tried, but there isn't a single doctor within 100 miles who will prescribe it, so I guess that's out. Thanks for the advice and all, but unfortunately I can say (almost literally) that I've tried it all. Almost every drug -- alone, in combination with others... the majority don't do a thing at all to me that's worth continuing taking them (i.e. mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, tricyclics, Effexor, Remeron, Serzone). Those that do help, though the help they provide is quite limited, such as Paxil, turn me into an asexual zombie, lol. Oh well... I definitely plan on trying each of the new drugs when they come out, so maybe I'll get lucky with Cymbalta or one of the many new anxiety drugs down the pipeline.
> Of course this isn't always possible. It must be frustrating for you to be still having this breakthrough depression. But you say most of your other probs are under control.Yeah, everything's under control except the fibromyalgia, and actually I believe it's the fibro that causes me to be so depressed. Most people would be depressed if they were 20 years old and barely able to get out of bed in the morning or ascend a flight of stairs... so maybe when I get my fibro treated on Monday I can discontinue the Wellbutrin XL and Prozac -- the dextroamphetamine and clonazepam are here to stay though. :-) When I feel myself going into a deep depression, I take 30mg of dextroamphetamine (sometimes with a teaspoon of DTO [a.k.a. deodorized tincture of opium or laudanum] which is WONDERFUL) and I'm feeling great within 15 minutes. My gods though... I wish I didn't need to take so much clonazepam. Cursed with a naturally high tolerance... but at least my current pdoc understands and asks me at every appointment how much of each medication I want -- I can tell him 30mg/day of clonazepam and he'll go for it without a second thought, lol. Crazy. I don't abuse the good relationship I have with him by doing that kind of stuff though. Besides, 12mg/day that I take now is plenty, lol.
> > You're definitely quite "lucky" (if you want to call it that :-) that Nardil works so brilliantly for you.
>
> You are exactly right. When I am on Nardil I am Sooo confident I believe any drug will work as great as Nardil....until I stop the Nardil! Nardil helps so many aspects of my life. It really is a wonder drug.Well, I'm very, very happy for you... I'm still debating whether or not to retry Nardil, on the offchance that I was taking the "subpotent" recalled Nardil. But that would of course mean discontinuing my dextroamphetamine, which, as I mentioned above, is my lifesaver when I get depressed.
> I just can't understand in the least how it can be that I took Nardil at 120mg for six months and had no effect -- I would've even been happy for a side effect! lol But I can't get over the fact that I took that high dose for so long with absolutely no change in my mental status.
>
> Hmmm...how soon before you got up to that high dose? THAT might be the problem. I know when I get up that high depression creeps in. But at 90mg my smile is wide. When you started it, did you stay put at 60mg for 4 weeks. I ALWAYS advise this...tapering up too quick can cause all sorts of probs IMO...even lack of therapeutic response.Actually, I was on it a little over a year altogether because I wanted SO badly for it to work. I started at 30mg and stayed there two months, then went to 45 for two weeks, then 60 for two more weeks, 75 for six weeks, 90 for six weeks, 105 for a month, and then the 120mg.
> Also, what drugs were you concomitantly on when trying Nardil? Could they have interacted adversly with the Nardil?
Just clonazepam, and at one point a small dose of Provigil and Neurontin. I highly doubt they were the culprits, though anything's possible...
> Truly sucks. I still wonder if I was getting the Nardil from the bad batch that was recalled last November... that could explain it.
> You are right. It very well could have been that.> After all, my last prescription was filled in the beginning of November, and the recall occurred in mid-November. I wonder if there's any way at all to find out if the Nardil my local pharmacy was carrying at the time was the "sub-potent" stuff that was recalled. If so, I must say that really ticks me off. I was just SO sure the Nardil would work when I tried it... oh well. :-\
>
> I think it warrents another trial, Ame. Frankly, I find it VERY strange that it wouldn't work. In fact, and I've read a LOT of anecdotes on Nardil, I don't believe I have ever seen it NOT work. Those subpotent ones were around for a while. I'd say give it another go. When it works, boy, it'll be worth it!!Same here -- I rarely hear of it not working. And the weirdest part of it all was the fact that even at such a high dose, I had very minimal side effects (very slight problems having an orgasm and a little orthostatic hypotension). Thanks for the advice -- I'm pretty sure I'll end up taking it. My pdoc would probably be open to using a stimulant with Nardil at a low dose, and if not... oh well. I just want very badly to try it again and for it to work because everyone it works for just raves about how wonderful it is.
Oh -- there's one other very strange thing about my Nardil experience which reinforces the subpotent idea even further: I quit 120mg cold turkey and had no withdrawal of any kind.
> > >And a lump appeared on a certain body part I will not mention!!!
> >
> > lol, that's a new one! I hope it's gone away by now, lol.
>
> Sure has!lol, glad to hear.
> Good luck with the new drug, Ame. And give Nardil another shot! It is a miracle of psychopharmacology!!Thanks! I'm sure I will -- a million thanks for all the help. :-)
Peace out,
Michael
Posted by caleb462 on October 18, 2003, at 14:52:15
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness! » ace, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 18, 2003, at 10:40:05
> Oh -- there's one other very strange thing about my Nardil experience which reinforces the subpotent idea even further: I quit 120mg cold turkey and had no withdrawal of any kind.That definitely sets off a lightbulb in my head that YOU must have been getting subpotent Nardil, or atleast there's a very good chance you were.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 18, 2003, at 20:25:40
In reply to Re: Nardil Itchiness!, posted by caleb462 on October 18, 2003, at 14:52:15
>
> > Oh -- there's one other very strange thing about my Nardil experience which reinforces the subpotent idea even further: I quit 120mg cold turkey and had no withdrawal of any kind.
>
> That definitely sets off a lightbulb in my head that YOU must have been getting subpotent Nardil, or atleast there's a very good chance you were.Yep, I'm pretty convinced that's the case... but since all my meds, however unorthodox they may be, are working well now, I don't want to rock the boat. Guess I'll file Parnate and a new trial of Nardil under "just in case" for now.
Posted by Liligoth on October 22, 2003, at 21:57:16
In reply to Re: Pet meds » Liligoth, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 17, 2003, at 6:28:18
Hi Ame Sans Vie, sorry this reply took a while I hadnt checked the board for a few days.
I have heard of prozac also for cats but myj vet doesnt prescribe it (dont know why - they are not very forthcoming there)
Ok, it's my cat not my dog on clomipramine so my experience will be a bit more helpful. This cat was rescued by me a few years ago. I have known it from kittenhood & she is now about 15yrs old. She has always had a precarious mental stability & had regular bouts of bizarre & destructive behaviour. We got a kitten & she got even worse than her normal nuttiness - growling at us & biting if we tried to go near her (she had never done this before), bad self-mutilation, hatred (but no violence) towards the kitten, toilet wherever she felt like it (not on the furniture thank god because she has done that before) etc.
The clomipramine *Works* well on 5mg it didnt last at the initial dose of 2.5mg. There is no weird effect on her behaviour & these drugs (she has also been prescribed valium many years ago to good effect) do work for them in a similar way to us from what I have observed & because they are prescribed for the same conditions & imagine therefore that the side effects are similar.
Side effects - hard to tell as she is getting old anyway but I think she is too sedated on a dose of 5mg. She doesnt keep herself clean, she isnt as interested in food, but she is ok with us & the kitten & behaves normally.
I guess it like us that we always have to make a trade off between how effective the meds are for us & the side effects.
Good luck with your cat - as she is your familiar I suppose you wouldnt want her too sedated but as she doesnt sound very severe then a lower dose may do the trick. I am very close to my new kitten (had her for a year now) & I consider her my familiar too (though I dont practice anything). Let me know how it goes & if you have any more questions or want to discuss it.
cheers,
lili
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.