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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by john1022 on October 15, 2003, at 16:33:58
Hello. I am just looking for any more suggestions or ideas of what is happening to me...
I had just a mild depression along with tinnitus, and my sleep was absolutely not triggering. This all came out of no where almost over night and has happened before (both times fixed by Effexor which I got off of and had no problems) The first two times I did not have the tinnitus (which seems to be a major part of what is happening to me now)
My pdoc was going to try Trazadone 4 weeks ago when this happened again, but then said "let's try Amitriptyline to see if it cures the tinnitus" which I guess it has been known to do (it has also been known to make it worse which I learned after the fact, along with most AD's)
Well it made the tinnitus worse, also caused extreme pressure in my ears, my jaws were cracking because of it causing EXTREME anxiety in me (which isn't part of my depression). It gave me ear aches like I had an ear infection and hypercausis (extreme sensitivity to hearing) where I was hearing and am still hearing buzzing in tv's and computers and even people's voices are too loud to listen too.
Which I guess can happen with almost all SSRI's if you have tinnitus to begin with (it is listed as side effects of a lot of SSRI's on the RXlist website which lists more side affects experienced by users, that the companies themselves don't share.)
It sent me from having mild depression into SEVERE, non-functional depression and giving me serious suicidal thoughts when I have NEVER had these before. The 2 weeks I was on it I thought about it A LOT, which has subsided though as the medication is leaving my system and I am thinking "what was I thinking?"
It gave me extreme anxiety and made sleeping much worse (it is supposed to be sedating) and harder to fall asleep with waking up every few hours. (I have always slept like a baby) It gave me horrible,violent nightmares EVERY night and multiple extremely weird, vivid dreams that I have never had before.
It also has completely screwed up my cognitive process for the last four weeks (stopped taking it two weeks ago). I couldn't concentrate whatsoever on anything and the worst part was I kept having different songs playing in my head 24/7 all day long and could not control them. I would wake up to a song blarring in my head in the morning and in the middle of the night.
The songs would continue all day long. Couldn't even sit down to watch tv or read a book my mind was so out of it with absolutely no concentration. I cannot imagine having to deal with that the rest of my life. (I don't think other people are hearing the songs, so probably not schitzophrenia)
Almost 3 weeks later I seem to be getting better by the day and the songs in the head have slowly stopped since 2 days ago. It also made one of my pupils extremely dilated when I was on Effexor and Elavil and traces of it still in my system still seem to be kicking back in after I exercise or take a walk. Yesterday I took a walk and had extreme blurry vision (which is a side effect)
It is a drug that stays in your system (long half-life) for 2-3 weeks so I am still feeling the affects of it. Obviously I am a very rare case, but the last 2 weeks have freaked me out. Effexor caused some of the problems mentioned above but lucky I stopped it quickly and it had a short half-life and after a week most of the side affects went away.
I have no idea why I am reacting this way to these meds. I seem to think it has something to do with the SSRI action as St. John's Wort made me feel much worse (but not to this degree) and Wellbutrin didn't do anything.
I took a couple of pills of 5HTP when I was feeling the worst after a week of taking Elavil and felt a significant decrease in anxiety and depression hours after taking it. Stopped taking them and felt horrible again the next day, took them again and felt much better.
It seems to counteract all the bad feelings the Elavil made me have, but I am still feeling terrible and much worse than I was before starting any meds. I seriously went from just having a very mild depression to almost being hospitalized (I had to quit my job) with extreme depression and horrible anxiety in a matter of one week after starting Elavil. It has been 18 days, and although I am feeling slightly better by the day, I still feel it in my system.
I have no idea where to go from here. I am affraid to try another SSRI and have it do the same thing that Effexor and Elavil did to me for the past month. But obviously I have to keep trying something because I can't sleep and can't rely on a sleeping pill the rest of my life or benzos.
Thankfully my doctor has taken mercy on me and has given me some Ativan for the next few weeks which puts me to sleep. He says he wants to wait a while and see what happens before putting me on something else.
I am affraid as can be that these meds will give me some kind of permanent damage with my hearing (permanent sensitive hearing would be TERRIBLE) or permanent cogitive damage of having the songs constantly in my head which would be unbearable to deal with.
The funny thing is Effexor worked wonders for me twice in the past with this same depression with none of the mentioned side effects. It corrected whatever balance I had and I was able to sleep normally within weeks of taking it in the past.
I would get off and on ear screeing though on Effexor in the past, but not constant ringing which I have now. I can feel the minute my depression hits and this time it happened at the exact same hour as the ringing in my ears, so I know the ringing has to do with the depression and not hearing damage.
I am very scared because I just feel that most of these anti-depressants will cause the same reactions in me now for some reason. And that for some reason my brain chemistry is completely different than what it used to be and I cannot use them any more.
Do MAOI's selectivly block the re-uptake of serotonin or work by a different manorism? I am just worried that the seretonin blocking action of these differnt AD's are causing the problems (as weird and paradoxal as it sounds) Wellbutrin caused none of these side effects when I tried it.
Should I have an EEG done? Are there any other suggestions or tests I should have done? I have already had blood work and am going for an MRI next week.
I am very scared. I just want to find something that works and get back to life. Depression is a terrible thing to deal with and my heart goes out to all that suffer from it.
Any suggestions would be great. Thanks for listening
Posted by Ron Jones on October 15, 2003, at 16:49:11
In reply to Need help...I am very worried, posted by john1022 on October 15, 2003, at 16:33:58
You need to read the research done on fish oil in England and Harvard Med School and start takiing it now.A cat parasite may cause schizophremia in some people, research at John Hopkins says so.Do you mean that your ears ring?A defective enzyme mat be the cause of another form of schizophrenia.It destroys omega 3 fatty acids.
Posted by john1022 on October 15, 2003, at 16:57:40
In reply to Re: Need help...I am very worried, posted by Ron Jones on October 15, 2003, at 16:49:11
yes my ears are ringing and have been for 2 months straight day in and day out. It is a very common condition usually caused my hearing damage. My ears are fine as far as hearing as I just had them tested.
Tinnitus can also come from the brain and not ear damage related (which is obviously my case as the ringing and depression started on the same day out of literally no where)
I will definitely try fish oil. What have studies said about it? (I will start researching it also). Is there any fish oil that is more effective than others or a brand more potent or higher pharm. grade than others for when I go to the store later tonight?
Thanks for your help and for any else's input...
Posted by Ron Jones on October 15, 2003, at 17:10:42
In reply to Re: Need help...I am very worried, posted by john1022 on October 15, 2003, at 16:57:40
You need to get a consentrated ,purifyed brand of fish oil.Harvard has a brand of fish oil.Inositol may also help OCD,PANIC and Depression.It does not help schizophrenia and no ones knows if it helps or hurts manic depression.Look up inositol and depression on the web.Ben Gurion University has tested it like a drug.Mental illness can make your ears ring.Deep breathing exercises help anxiety.You could be hyperventilated.You may have too much oxygen in your blood.What kind of illness do you have?
Posted by john1022 on October 15, 2003, at 17:45:49
In reply to Re: Need help...I am very worried, posted by Ron Jones on October 15, 2003, at 17:10:42
Thanks for the suggestions. My mom had some Fish Oil upstairs from Vitamin World that I took, 1000 mg. It says to take it 3 times a day so I will.
My illness is just depression I would imagine. A little moody, slight anxiety, and a chemical imbalance of not being able to fall asleep. Probably all depression related. I have felt the same way in the past and Effexor worked wonders. Now it is having an opposite affect of making me feel much worse and creating depression and anxiety.
No other illnesses, just tinnitus associated with or caused by the depression.
Thanks for the help.
Posted by john1022 on October 15, 2003, at 18:03:46
In reply to Re: Need help...I am very worried, posted by john1022 on October 15, 2003, at 17:45:49
Here is an interesting study I found on another link on the alternative medicines message board on here about fish oil and depression (for all that have not read it or seen it). Pretty interesting, I am going to start using it and see what happens...
Research Indicates EPA Successfully Treats Depression
ProHealthNetwork.com10-21-2002
Daily supplements of an omega-3 fatty acid--found in fish and fish oil--may help alleviate the symptoms of depression in patients who do not respond to standard antidepressant medications, new research findings suggest.
Dr. Malcolm Peet of the Swallownest Court Hospital in Sheffield, England and his colleague found that depressed patients who received a daily dose of 1 gram of an omega-3 fatty acid for 12 weeks experienced a decrease in their symptoms, such as sadness, anxiety and sleeping problems.The only side effect of the treatment appeared to be gastrointestinal problems, which Peet and his co-author Dr. David F. Horrobin of Laxdale Research, Ltd. in Stirling, Scotland, deemed "mild."
All of the patients had tried other medications before enrolling in the current study, including selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) such as Prozac and medications from an older family of drugs called tricyclic antidepressants. Both types of drug are considered standard treatments for depression.
This is not the first study to suggest that omega-3 fatty acids, such as the form of eicosapenaenoic acid (EPA) used in this report, may help patients with psychiatric disorders. Previous researchers have suggested that the balance of omega-3 fatty acids in the brain may become skewed in people with depression, and earlier studies have shown that fish oil supplements can help alleviate the symptoms of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, or manic depression.
In addition, researchers have found that people who are depressed, as well as those diagnosed with cardiovascular diseases and other conditions associated with depression, have relatively low levels of omega-3 fatty acids in their blood.
STUDY ABSTRACT:
Authors: Malcolm Peet, MB, ChB, FRCPsych; David F. Horrobin, DPhil, BM, BCh
Background
In depressed patients, low blood levels of eicosapentaenoic [EPA - an omega-3 fatty acid--found in fish and fish oil] acid are seen. We tested the antidepressive effect of ethyl-eicosapentaenoate in these patients.
Methods
We included 70 patients with persistant depression despite ongoing treatment with an adequate dose of a standard antidepressant. Patients were randomized on a double-blind basis to placebo or ethyl-eicosapentaenoate at dosages of 1, 2, or 4 g/d for 12 weeks in addition to unchanged background medication. Patients underwent assessment using the 17-item Hamilton Depression Rating Scale, the Montgomery-Asberg Depression Rating Scale, and the Beck Depression Inventory.
Results
Forty-six (88%) of 52 patients receiving ethyl-eicosapentaenoate and 14 (78%) of 18 patients receiving placebo completed the 12-week study with no serious adverse events. The 1-g/d group showed a significantly better outcome than the placebo group on all 3 rating scales. In the intention-to-treat group, 5 (29%) of 17 patients receiving placebo and 9 (53%) of 17 patients receiving 1 g/d of ethyl-eicosapentaenoate achieved a 50% reduction on the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale score. In the per-protocol group, the corresponding figures were 3 (25%) of 12 patients for placebo and 9 (69%) of 13 patients for the 1-g/d group. The 2-g/d group showed little evidence of efficacy, whereas the 4-g/d group showed nonsignificant trends toward improvement. All of the individual items on all 3 rating scales improved with the 1-g/d dosage of ethyl-eicosapentaenoate vs placebo, with strong beneficial effects on items rating depression, anxiety, sleep, lassitude, libido, and suicidality.
Conclusion
Treatment with ethyl-eicosapentaenoate at a dosage of 1 g/d was effective in treating depression in patients who remained depressed despite adequate standard therapy.
Posted by scorpio on October 16, 2003, at 5:25:38
In reply to Re: Need help...I am very worried, posted by john1022 on October 15, 2003, at 18:03:46
i am totally not an expert in the field of all different types of medications for depression but my father told me that when he was suffering from his worst depression that Depakote saved his life basically. I just thought id throw that out there for u
Posted by john1022 on October 16, 2003, at 8:22:49
In reply to Re: Need help...I am very worried, posted by scorpio on October 16, 2003, at 5:25:38
Thanks for your opinion.
Would an EEG be something I should look into? I already have an MRI scheduled.
Would the EEG possibly show my brain's activity and give any insight into why I am reacting so badly to these AD's?
Thanks
Posted by scorpio on October 17, 2003, at 7:37:41
In reply to Re: Need help...I am very worried, posted by john1022 on October 16, 2003, at 8:22:49
yes i say u should definitely look into having ur brain looked at because but after similar tests were ran on my dad i "think" thats when they presc. him depakote. Definintely go have tests run
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