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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by catachrest on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:32
I was telling my sister the other day about the bizarre dreams I have since I started Effexor XR(the highlight of my day is before I even wake up - I go to bed wondering what adventure I'll have this night!)and she jokingly asked what effect the medication would have on her if she wasn't depressed - she wanted to try out these dreams! She wasn't really serious, of course - for one thing, it's really too expensive for that kind of use. But it got me thinking - would anti-depressants have any positive effect on a non-depressed person, aside from the side effects? Thoughts, anyone?
Susan
Posted by stjames on September 4, 2003, at 9:57:27
In reply to anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by catachrest on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:32
nope.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 4, 2003, at 10:11:27
In reply to anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by catachrest on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:32
Not Effexor. The only antidepressants that have a tendency to cause non-depressed folks to feel euphoric are the MAOIs (i.e. Nardil, Parnate).
Posted by Mats on September 4, 2003, at 10:25:42
In reply to Re: anti-depressants given to those not depressed » catachrest, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 4, 2003, at 10:11:27
So why not?
ofcourse in my opinion. Increasement in Serotonin, noradrenalin, dopamin etc. will have effects on a subjects mood regardless of underlaying depression. Non depressed can get happy using illegal drugs so can a depressed. So why should that not include AD?
Posted by chewy on September 4, 2003, at 11:53:46
In reply to anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by catachrest on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:32
I was taking effexor a couple years ago and when I went off the med I missed the extraodinary dreams. Well here I am, back on effexor and dream land! Sometimes I can haardly wait to hit the sack and await the next nocturnal adventure! Sweet dreams!
Posted by irishcatholic on September 4, 2003, at 12:16:39
In reply to anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by catachrest on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:32
I've not read it, but I thought the premise of the book "Listening to Prozac" was that it could make "normal" people "better than well".
Anyone read it?
Posted by linkadge on September 4, 2003, at 12:59:09
In reply to Re: anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by irishcatholic on September 4, 2003, at 12:16:39
Depending on the personality type, I believe that they can change the mood of certain indevituals.
Persons who report not being depressed, but tend to be very shy, or introverted, seem to report improvements on this medication, also, people who tend to get very easily angered, can be helped by the medication.
But then again, these symptoms might be a subtype of certain depressive symptoms.
Some studies report that nondepressed peoples personalities change slightly (a little more easy going) when on antidepresants, but when asked wheather the change was worth the side effects, the people said 'not a chance'. I will look for these studies.
More neurotransmitters does not necesarily equade to better mood. As we are starting to find out the common mechanism of these drugs could possibly be to increase BDNF expression.
One study showed that effexor only improved BDNF expression up to a certain dose. Increasing it further actually decreased BDNF expression. So there really is a 'normal' level of these chemicals.
Just like with me, I have tried more celexa, but it doesn't really do much, just more side effects.
Another thing to remember is glutamate toxicity. Too much brain activity can make you manic, and in turn can dammage the brain via glutamate neurotoxicity. IE if the nerve cell doesn't get time to rest then it destroys itself. So, trying to increase the workings of a well working machiene might be asking for troubble.
Linkadge
Posted by stjames on September 4, 2003, at 13:52:27
In reply to Re: anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by Mats on September 4, 2003, at 10:25:42
> So why not?
> ofcourse in my opinion. Increasement in Serotonin, noradrenalin, dopamin etc. will have effects on a subjects mood regardless of underlaying depression.AD do not "increase" neurotransmitters.
Posted by Cruz on September 4, 2003, at 22:40:31
In reply to Re: anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by stjames on September 4, 2003, at 13:52:27
On the label of every AD that has ever been prescribed, it has clearly stated that the mode of action of this AD is not known. Why is that?
Everyone is unique, certainly some people without a mood disorder could have favorable effects. So what who cares.
What we need is understanding of human nuerochemistry so we can get proper treatment and not some shot in the dark, that is unkown how it works or the is long term harmfull effects.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 4, 2003, at 22:54:26
In reply to Re: anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by irishcatholic on September 4, 2003, at 12:16:39
> I've not read it, but I thought the premise of the book "Listening to Prozac" was that it could make "normal" people "better than well".
> Anyone read it?I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by HenryO on September 7, 2003, at 4:30:51
In reply to anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by catachrest on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:32
Come on, give some to your sister I want to see what happens. I bet it won't be nothing. I doubt it will hurt her. It will settle this whole discussion. I often wish the non depressed would try some AD's just to show them these meds aren't like narcotics. I wish more Pdocs would sample their wares, that's for sure. If more non deppressed people would try these meds we wouldn't have to hear them on TV saying, "go take a prozac." It would clear up a lot of misconceptions.
Personally I did not like Effexor at all. I'm glad you find it effective for your depression. Are you having any negative side effects from it. Have you been on other AD's?
Posted by Viridis on September 7, 2003, at 21:58:34
In reply to Re: anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by HenryO on September 7, 2003, at 4:30:51
I wouldn't give my prescription meds to someone else -- for one thing I need them, for another they might do some real harm, and finally, if it did hurt someone I'd be liable (as well as guilty of illegally dispensing drugs in the first place).
But I understand your point -- a lot of people still think of antidepressants etc. as "happy pills" that give some kind of instant high. My response to that attitude is to suggest that the person ask their doctor for some, then wait out the six weeks or so it might or might not take to get a positive response, see if they can tolerate the side effects (which I list in detail), and then tell me how much of a buzz they got. That usually makes the point.
I think that attitudes are changing, but many people still see ADs as equivalent to tranquilizers, which do have pretty immediate effects (how many times have you heard someone say "take a Valium"?).
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 8, 2003, at 12:50:16
In reply to anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by catachrest on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:32
I wouldn't like to give my son or younger siblings drugs just so they could experience the side effects. That's just curiosity and it falls under drug abuse; taking a drug for reasons other than what it was prescribed for. AD's mess with your brain, period. In theory, it's interesting to wonder if a non-depressed person would become manic after taking an AD? In reality, someone interested in popping a pill to see how it feels might become a illegal drug user in the future.
There's no good reason to do it. And you already know it's illegal.
Good Luck!
KDi in Texas
Posted by catachrest on September 8, 2003, at 22:49:52
In reply to Re: anti-depressants given to those not depressed » catachrest, posted by KimberlyDi on September 8, 2003, at 12:50:16
Just for the record, I never intended to nor would I ever give my medication to someone to whom it hadn't been prescribed, especially just for kicks. I had tried to make it clear that she was just joking - she wouldn't take them either, and both of us for just the reasons you mention below. My question was purely hypothetical. :D Thanks for caring, though. I really do appreciate your answer. And really, even if she were serious about wanting to try it for those reasons, I'm sure the initial acclimatization side-effects would cure her of that really fast. :)
Yours,
Susan
> I wouldn't like to give my son or younger siblings drugs just so they could experience the side effects. That's just curiosity and it falls under drug abuse; taking a drug for reasons other than what it was prescribed for. AD's mess with your brain, period. In theory, it's interesting to wonder if a non-depressed person would become manic after taking an AD? In reality, someone interested in popping a pill to see how it feels might become a illegal drug user in the future.
>
> There's no good reason to do it. And you already know it's illegal.
>
> Good Luck!
> KDi in Texas
Posted by KimberlyDi on September 9, 2003, at 8:57:36
In reply to Re: anti-depressants given to those not depressed, posted by catachrest on September 8, 2003, at 22:49:52
Another for the record, looking back I think I was responding more to another poster that replied to you saying "just give it to her."
I'm sorry if my annoyance was transferred to you!
KDi in Texas
> Just for the record, I never intended to nor would I ever give my medication to someone to whom it hadn't been prescribed, especially just for kicks. I had tried to make it clear that she was just joking - she wouldn't take them either, and both of us for just the reasons you mention below. My question was purely hypothetical. :D Thanks for caring, though. I really do appreciate your answer. And really, even if she were serious about wanting to try it for those reasons, I'm sure the initial acclimatization side-effects would cure her of that really fast. :)
>
> Yours,
> Susan
>
>
>
>
> > I wouldn't like to give my son or younger siblings drugs just so they could experience the side effects. That's just curiosity and it falls under drug abuse; taking a drug for reasons other than what it was prescribed for. AD's mess with your brain, period. In theory, it's interesting to wonder if a non-depressed person would become manic after taking an AD? In reality, someone interested in popping a pill to see how it feels might become a illegal drug user in the future.
> >
> > There's no good reason to do it. And you already know it's illegal.
> >
> > Good Luck!
> > KDi in Texas
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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