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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 1, 2003, at 19:30:44
I think I may just give this a try to hopefully rid myself of the last symptom I have yet to be "cured" of -- outbursts of anger. I never become violent or anything, but very little things can just set me off. I've been this way as long as I can remember, so I know it isn't the meds. Depakote has been helpful in the past, but I'd really rather try something that may prove to be less troublesome, regarding side effects I mean.
So my question is this: Does anyone know the amount of *elemental* lithium in Serenity? I'm trying to decide if I should just buy a "generic" form of LO that costs quite a bit less, but I don't want to be buying a much less potent product. The one I'm looking at says 4.8mg elemental lithium; the site for Serenity doesn't list an amount. Anyone?
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 1, 2003, at 20:15:05
In reply to Lithium orotate, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 1, 2003, at 19:30:44
> So my question is this: Does anyone know the amount of *elemental* lithium in Serenity? I'm trying to decide if I should just buy a "generic" form of LO that costs quite a bit less, but I don't want to be buying a much less potent product. The one I'm looking at says 4.8mg elemental lithium; the site for Serenity doesn't list an amount. Anyone?
This page says Serenity has 4.6 mg elemental lithium per 120 mg capsule.
http://www.findserenitynow.com/product_info_3.htmlLar
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 1, 2003, at 23:59:45
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on September 1, 2003, at 20:15:05
Oops, didn't realize there was more than one page in the product info section.
Sounds good, though -- hmmm... $35 for 90 caps with 4.6mg each, or $13 for 120 caps with 4.8mg each? :-)
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 2, 2003, at 6:14:54
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate » Larry Hoover, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 1, 2003, at 23:59:45
> Oops, didn't realize there was more than one page in the product info section.
>
> Sounds good, though -- hmmm... $35 for 90 caps with 4.6mg each, or $13 for 120 caps with 4.8mg each? :-)Ya, sounds like Serenity could be very, uhhhh, profitable.
Just so we're clear.....you're not substituting this stuff for a lithium carbonate prescription, are you? You're adding this in, as an elective augmentative, yes?
Lar
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 2, 2003, at 12:18:55
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on September 2, 2003, at 6:14:54
> Just so we're clear.....you're not substituting this stuff for a lithium carbonate prescription, are you? You're adding this in, as an elective augmentative, yes?
Oh, absolutely. I've tried lithium once before and couldn't handle the side effects (i.e. tremors, acne, dry mouth, nausea). It *did* keep my anger in check, though. So I can only hope that their claims of lithium orotate being "free of side-effects" is at least partially true.
I am going to do some research of my own on this, but you would be the person to ask about it, I'm sure. What do you know about L.O.? Do the claims on their site seem to have any validity to them? I mean, for $13, I'll order it anyway and give it a shot, but I'm just curious as to your opinion. Thanks!
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 2, 2003, at 14:15:50
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate » Larry Hoover, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 2, 2003, at 12:18:55
> > Just so we're clear.....you're not substituting this stuff for a lithium carbonate prescription, are you? You're adding this in, as an elective augmentative, yes?
>
> Oh, absolutely. I've tried lithium once before and couldn't handle the side effects (i.e. tremors, acne, dry mouth, nausea). It *did* keep my anger in check, though. So I can only hope that their claims of lithium orotate being "free of side-effects" is at least partially true.It's not clear to me that the effects of this salt are purely those of lithium. The orotic acid might be doing something on its own.
> I am going to do some research of my own on this, but you would be the person to ask about it, I'm sure. What do you know about L.O.?
I did a mini-review of Serenity for Ron Hill a couple months ago (link in a sec), but he was considering taking it instead of lithium carbonate.
> Do the claims on their site seem to have any validity to them? I mean, for $13, I'll order it anyway and give it a shot, but I'm just curious as to your opinion. Thanks!
There's a lot more to the thread than my thoughts, fer sure, but here's what I thought about the site, last time around:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030530/msgs/230745.html
On re-reading what I wrote back then, I may not have emphasized strongly enough the concept of the dynamic equilibrium between intra-cellular (within) and inter-cellular (between) lithium concentrations, as well as the equilibrium between the inter-cellular space and the blood. Throughout the time that lithium is being absorbed from the gut, the kidneys are trying to excrete it. The blood flowing into the brain both passively (via diffusion) and actively (via transporters) supplies the various neural tissues with the ion. It has to be pumped into each neuron, but it constantly leaks back into the intra-cellular space, and back into the blood. Once back in the blood, the kidneys can get a kick at it, so there's a continuous decrease in concentration until your next dose. I just can't see how lithium orotate can possibly bypass these natural processes. Even the website acknowledges that blood lithium conentrations are very low on the orotate.
As an augment, I have no problem with lithium orotate. I'm interested in hearing all about your experiences with it. But as a substitute for lithium carbonate as a mood stabilizer, I don't think so.
Lar
Posted by McPac on September 2, 2003, at 14:32:13
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on September 2, 2003, at 14:15:50
"But as a substitute for lithium carbonate as a mood stabilizer, I don't think so"
>>>>>>>>> Lar, can ANYTHING natural be used as a substitute for lithium carbonate? Seems like a combo of natural mood-stabilizing supps could work for SOME folks. Fish oil works well for me, though I haven't went off lithium since being on the fish oil.
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:31
In reply to Lar, Re: Lithium orotate, posted by McPac on September 2, 2003, at 14:32:13
> "But as a substitute for lithium carbonate as a mood stabilizer, I don't think so"
>
> >>>>>>>>> Lar, can ANYTHING natural be used as a substitute for lithium carbonate? Seems like a combo of natural mood-stabilizing supps could work for SOME folks. Fish oil works well for me, though I haven't went off lithium since being on the fish oil.I don't think there's any way to know if there are any substitutes that would work for an individual. I was drawing attention to the idea that anyone using prescribed lithium salts for mood stabilization should avoid over-the-counter self-medication with lithium orotate. They are not the same thing, despite what the website says.
Lar
Posted by River1924 on September 6, 2003, at 0:35:21
In reply to Re: Lar, Re: Lithium orotate » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on September 4, 2003, at 9:51:31
I find otc lithium (there is an asparate version, too) helpful with the side effects of lamictal. It really helps with the physical discomfort and anxiety. Lamictal may be causing a moderate hypomanic response (the unpleasant kind) and the otc lithium relieves those adverse effects.
Posted by joebob on September 7, 2003, at 21:53:30
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on September 2, 2003, at 14:15:50
and have used it off and on for years..........
i use the atrium brand, it does seem calming, and did even before i started the depakote
Posted by JaneB on September 11, 2003, at 12:46:52
In reply to i like it too as an augmentor to depakote, posted by joebob on September 7, 2003, at 21:53:30
> and have used it off and on for years..........
> i use the atrium brand, it does seem calming, and did even before i started the depakoteSide effects?
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 11, 2003, at 20:27:16
In reply to Lithium orotate » joebob, posted by JaneB on September 11, 2003, at 12:46:52
> > i use the atrium brand, it does seem calming, and did even before i started the depakote
>
> Side effects?Sorry to intrude, but I'd like to redirect this thread to the new Psycho-Babble Alternative board. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/259210.html
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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