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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Leor on June 23, 2003, at 8:23:20
Hi Babblers. I suffer from reverse seasonal
affective disorder (manifests itself during the
summer from approximately early June to mid
September). Beyond the usual lethargy and
insomnia I have been having feelings of intense
worthlessness and apprehension. I am interested
to learn whether there are other reverse S.A.D.
sufferers out there in babble-land and to
discover what their coping strategies are
(whether pharmacological or lifestyle).
If I find any workable techniques, I'll
certainly pass them along.Thanks,
Leor
Posted by Ritch on June 23, 2003, at 12:23:24
In reply to Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. , posted by Leor on June 23, 2003, at 8:23:20
> Hi Babblers. I suffer from reverse seasonal
> affective disorder (manifests itself during the
> summer from approximately early June to mid
> September). Beyond the usual lethargy and
> insomnia I have been having feelings of intense
> worthlessness and apprehension. I am interested
> to learn whether there are other reverse S.A.D.
> sufferers out there in babble-land and to
> discover what their coping strategies are
> (whether pharmacological or lifestyle).
> If I find any workable techniques, I'll
> certainly pass them along.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Leor
I've got this, but it is more like double-SAD rather than reverse. I get the late Fall-early Winter one, and I get one similar to what you mention. Thus far.... the only AD's that seem to work well are Effexor+Wellbutrin in combo. I'm trying to avoid WB because of sleep issues, though.
Posted by male34 on June 24, 2003, at 6:47:23
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. » Leor, posted by Ritch on June 23, 2003, at 12:23:24
i get this also wierd isnt it, we should be happy its summer but its a seasonlychange thing, but im on lexapro ,but your not alone just try to adjust
Posted by caha on June 26, 2003, at 9:21:35
In reply to Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. , posted by Leor on June 23, 2003, at 8:23:20
Yep, I've got it too. In fact, my twin sister and my two daughters have it too. We hate the sun and heat and do our best on cloudy days. I just love clouds. (Tough to get away from the sun when you live in the Nevada desert!)
Anyway, one daughter moved to Seattle just to get away from the sun. Not feasible for me.
One thing that helps me is using dark polarized sun glasses each and every time I go outside. I also started Lexapro in January and notice this year the summer SAD isn't as bad as previous years. Going out to do outside chores or exercising early in the morning or late in the evening helps too.
My sister found interesting corelations between light sensitivity and low thyroid. We all have low thyroid but are very sensitive to heat and not the usual cold that usually goes with low thyroid.
Interesting thread. Thanks.
Carol
Posted by jrbecker on June 28, 2003, at 15:24:48
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. , posted by caha on June 26, 2003, at 9:21:35
see article link at bottom for an interesting seasonal graph...
Psychiatric News June 20, 2003
Volume 38 Number 12
© 2003 American Psychiatric Association
p. 26--------------------------------------------------
Long, Sunny Days Linked To Suicide Incidence
Joan Arehart-TreichelBright sunlight—not temperature, rainfall, or barometric pressure—seems to explain why suicides peak in spring and summer, a new study from Australia suggests.
Now that the longest days of the year are here, at least in the Northern Hemisphere, many people are rejoicing. After all, sunlight is a tonic for most people’s mental health, especially for those who suffer from seasonal affective disorder.
Ironically, however, spring and summer seem to have a baleful effect on the psyches of other people. Both the severity of endogenous depression and the incidence of suicide peak in the spring and summer months. The evidence comes from several studies conducted in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres over the past quarter-century.
But what is it about spring and summer that triggers depression or suicide in certain people? It may well be exposure to bright sunlight, an Australian study reported in the April American Journal of Psychiatry suggests. The study links suicide not only with spring and summer, but also with the prevailing levels of sunlight.
Gavin Lambert, Ph.D., a research fellow at the Baker Heart Research Institute in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, and his colleagues reasoned that if severity of depression and suicide incidence peak in the spring and summer, there must be some meteorological cue associated with these two seasons that alters brain activity and thus triggers depression or suicidal tendencies.
To identify that cue, the researchers looked at the frequency of suicide in the state of Victoria in the 1990s and whether suicide frequency could be linked with a particular meteorological factor.
Through the Office of the State Coroner of Victoria and the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, they learned that 5,706 suicides had occurred in Victoria from 1990 to 1999. They obtained detailed meteorological data about the weather in Victoria from 1990 to 1999 from the Australian Commonwealth Bureau of Meteorology in Melbourne. The data included average daily temperatures, average daily atmospheric pressures, daily amounts of rainfall, and hours of bright sunlight daily.
They found that the incidence of suicide was highest in the spring and summer months and lowest in the winter ones. They then looked at whether there was any association between this seasonal pattern and seasonal variations in temperature, atmospheric pressure, rainfall, and bright sunlight. They found a correlation for bright sunlight, but not for the other factors. Seasonal fluctuations in suicides closely paralleled seasonal fluctuations in bright sunlight (see graph). This pattern was particularly marked for violent suicides.Thus, "the incidence of suicide in southeastern Australia displays a clear seasonal pattern, being positively linked with prevailing levels of sunlight," Lambert and his group concluded.
But why? Lambert told Psychiatric News that the neurotransmitter serotonin is probably involved, since he and his colleagues have found a link between bright sunlight and brain levels of serotonin in healthy human subjects and since some other researchers have found serotonin disturbances in the brains and cerebrospinal fluids of suicide completers. How serotonin might trigger suicidal behavior in certain people, however, is far from clear.
The investigation was funded by the National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia, the Wellcome Trust, and the Australian Rotary Health Research Fund.
The study, "Increased Suicide Rate in the Middle-Aged and Its Association With Hours of Sunlight," is posted on the Web at http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/160/4/793?.
Am J Psychiatry 2003 160 793[Abstract/Free Full Text]
Posted by MB on June 28, 2003, at 19:50:43
In reply to Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. , posted by Leor on June 23, 2003, at 8:23:20
> Hi Babblers. I suffer from reverse seasonal
> affective disorder (manifests itself during the
> summer from approximately early June to mid
> September). Beyond the usual lethargy and
> insomnia I have been having feelings of intense
> worthlessness and apprehension. I am interested
> to learn whether there are other reverse S.A.D.
> sufferers out there in babble-land and to
> discover what their coping strategies are
> (whether pharmacological or lifestyle).
> If I find any workable techniques, I'll
> certainly pass them along.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Leor
My moods definitely cycle witht the seasons, and I am *much* worse in the Summer. My mom's the same way. We used to joke that she was "allergic" to it. The symptoms of my depression are atypical meaning, I over sleep, over eat, suffer "leaden" fatigue, etc. In the Summer, I feel like the sun and the heat are suffocating me, crushing me...as if there is some "life-essence" that is being leached from me. The fatigue worsens, I spend less and less time outdoors and more time in bed. I start needing 12-13 hrs of sleep a day, etc. I hate it. Have you ever gotten a really bad sunburn, and then felt fatigued and sick the next day? I feel that way if I spend only 30 minutes in the direct Summer sunlight. My skin even burns slightly, but there's no reddness.I'm glad you brought this up because I didn't know other people out there had "reversed" seasonal cycles in mood and symptoms.
I haven't found a cure....hehheh...I just try to stay out of the sun from about 10am to about 6pm. Once the sun goes lower in the sky (say 7-8pm) and the air cools off, I GET OUTDOORS!!! I need to spend time outside for my well being, and I find that if I utilize the morning and evening hours to get out and walk and soak up the beauty of the outdoors, I feel better in general. However, I try to stay inside with the shades drawn (hopefully sleeping) during the hottest part of the day.
MB
Posted by Leor on June 29, 2003, at 19:46:18
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. » Leor, posted by MB on June 28, 2003, at 19:50:43
I am beginning to think that lifestyle adjustments can offer some relief to summer S.A.D. sufferers. I have heard the following suggestions:
- swimming in a cool swimming pool daily
- wearing sunglasses- recognizing that you are more stress prone during the summer months and modifying
Activities accordinglyI have also derived some benefit from the use of an air ionization unit. It is turned on nightly before bed. By equalizing the polarity of the air ions, it allows my respiratory system a respite from stress.. I sleep better and wake up feeling more rested. The model I use is manufactured by wein. Please note that air ionization is not a quack remedy: there is longitudinal empirical study which verifies it efficacy as an adjunct treatment for depression, anxiety, and allergies.
> > Hi Babblers. I suffer from reverse seasonal
> > affective disorder (manifests itself during the
> > summer from approximately early June to mid
> > September). Beyond the usual lethargy and
> > insomnia I have been having feelings of intense
> > worthlessness and apprehension. I am interested
> > to learn whether there are other reverse S.A.D.
> > sufferers out there in babble-land and to
> > discover what their coping strategies are
> > (whether pharmacological or lifestyle).
> > If I find any workable techniques, I'll
> > certainly pass them along.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Leor
>
>
> My moods definitely cycle witht the seasons, and I am *much* worse in the Summer. My mom's the same way. We used to joke that she was "allergic" to it. The symptoms of my depression are atypical meaning, I over sleep, over eat, suffer "leaden" fatigue, etc. In the Summer, I feel like the sun and the heat are suffocating me, crushing me...as if there is some "life-essence" that is being leached from me. The fatigue worsens, I spend less and less time outdoors and more time in bed. I start needing 12-13 hrs of sleep a day, etc. I hate it. Have you ever gotten a really bad sunburn, and then felt fatigued and sick the next day? I feel that way if I spend only 30 minutes in the direct Summer sunlight. My skin even burns slightly, but there's no reddness.
>
> I'm glad you brought this up because I didn't know other people out there had "reversed" seasonal cycles in mood and symptoms.
>
> I haven't found a cure....hehheh...I just try to stay out of the sun from about 10am to about 6pm. Once the sun goes lower in the sky (say 7-8pm) and the air cools off, I GET OUTDOORS!!! I need to spend time outside for my well being, and I find that if I utilize the morning and evening hours to get out and walk and soak up the beauty of the outdoors, I feel better in general. However, I try to stay inside with the shades drawn (hopefully sleeping) during the hottest part of the day.
>
> MB
Posted by Penny on June 30, 2003, at 8:19:39
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. » MB, posted by Leor on June 29, 2003, at 19:46:18
Just noticed this thread and find it interesting - my pdoc and I were just talking about a seasonal summer-related cycle to my depressions. This time each year I start heading into the Pit once again. Sunlight has never really seemed to bother me, other than that I burn easily because I'm fair-skinned, but there's definitely a correlation between the summer months and my depression. Ironically, early spring is when I feel the best - when everything's just starting to bloom and the winter is melting away (despite the hay fever... )
I like the swimming pool idea...
Penny
Posted by MB on July 1, 2003, at 1:05:04
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D., posted by Penny on June 30, 2003, at 8:19:39
I read the symptoms of Summer SAD, and they don't match what I'm experiencing. I'm experienceing more of a fatigued, oversleeping, overeating, apathetic depression. Supposedly Summer SAD is usually made up of symptoms such as loss of appetite, insomnia, agitation, anxiety, etc.
Maybe I don't have "true" Summer SAD. Maybe, since I *am* sensitive to sunlight and heat, I tend to spend more time indoors during the Summer, exacerbating my atypical depression.
When its cooler, I get out more. Go for walks. I love the snow, its so beautiful and quieting (seems to soften everything...sounds and light are just softer and gentler). I also snowboard, so there are some endorphins floatin' around in the ol' brain in the winter.
I think in the Summer I "cocoon" more to avoid the bright light and heat, and it may be the cocooning, not the direct effect of the season, that gets me down. That's all I can figure out because my symptoms don't match the "Summer SAD" symptoms.
MB
Posted by jamaica on October 24, 2003, at 17:17:14
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D., posted by MB on July 1, 2003, at 1:05:04
How amazing to find this. I not only get depressed when it's hot and sunny, I actually get nauseous if I have to be in the sun. I get physically sick if I see the sun, or its glare, even with sunglasses on and a wide brimmed hat. Does this happen to anyone else? I love rain, fog, and clouds. I am able to hold my head up on such days and look at the world, rather than duck to avoid the light.
I also burn easily, and am uncomfortable in the heat. I keep my house around 63* -65* year round (indoors, my poor husband dresses for fall all summer)and my blinds drawn. I love to visit the beach in November or March.
I had no idea there was a name for this. I'm usually made to feel defective because I don't enjoy outdoor summer things. In fact, in summer, I vacation in places like Ireland, Maine, Canada...anywhere but the hot sunny places.
Thanks for the tips to mention to the doctor.
Posted by Kila on July 24, 2004, at 21:31:08
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D., posted by jamaica on October 24, 2003, at 17:17:14
Hi summer SAD sufferers,
Here I am a year later after this thread was posted trying to find out about summer depression or the summer version of SAD. There certainly isn't much information out there and very few of us who seem to have these symptoms. I have always hated the heat and have always hibernated in summer -- eating more, gaining weight, never leaving the house, not socializing at all except by phone or email. I have read that most people have it from June to September. For me it is May to November. Why? Because I live in Florida of all places. Yes I know I do not belong here but ALL my loved ones are here -- grandparents, parents, kids, and grandkids. I've been here for almost 40 years and I've hated every summer. And our summers are more than six months long. That leaves me with very little time to be happy about life. I don't know what to do. I would like to move north so my SAD would only last 3 months. That would be an improvement. I can't even go outside in the morning or evening because the sun is up at 6:30 a.m. and doesn't go down until 8:30 p.m. and our temps never go below 75 degrees in the summer and that is not cool. I used to fare better because we had afternoon thunderstorms everyday and the respite from the glaring sun was wonderful. This year we are having no storms and I'm much worse off than usual. I simply never leave the house unless I'm forced to. If people come over they say my house looks like a cave with the blinds and curtains drawn over all the windows. I just count the days until October because then I know that only about 6 more weeks (around mid Nov) we might have a cool day. Count your blessings that you're not stuck in Florida with this disorder or whatever it is. I've never been on medication for the summer depression but I am getting to the point of exploring that possibility. I just dread the experience of trying to convince my doctor. If anyone has any suggestions - aside from moving to a cooler climate which would be my first choice - I would welcome them. Just to be able to correspond with someone who feels the same way would be a big help. Thanks.Kila
Posted by leor on July 25, 2004, at 11:53:21
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D., posted by Kila on July 24, 2004, at 21:31:08
Kila, I don’t wish to shatter your hopes but I’m not so sure that moving to a different climate would necessarily alleviate your symptoms. Much of the research I’ve come across has indicated that S.A.D. involves a general temperature sensitivity - whether to heat or cold. If you were living in Canada, as I do, you’d have to endure six months of cold annually - a situation every bit as difficult as the one you currently face in sunny Florida. Like most disabilities I think that S.A.D. is best treated through adaptation. For their possible usefulness I’ll mention some of my coping-mechanisms:
( 1 ) Always were polarizing sun glasses outdoors
( 2 ) Drink large quantities of water (to keep the body cool)
( 3 ) Wear loss, comfortable, well ventilated close to minimize perspiration( 4 ) Take Vitamin D or Rocalcetrol (it’s active form). Vitamin D help regulates the bodies’ absorption of sunlight and also has a mildly antidepressant affect.
Good Luck!
Posted by zeebop on July 26, 2004, at 4:16:00
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. » Kila, posted by leor on July 25, 2004, at 11:53:21
It is great to have people like me!
All my depreeive attacks started at end of spring-begining of summer...however my depressions were of the classical type with early morning awakening,black thoughts...etc.
In addion,when autumn breeze starts I start to feel much better!
Posted by LynneDa on July 27, 2004, at 14:50:44
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D., posted by zeebop on July 26, 2004, at 4:16:00
Wow, I thought I was the only one whose depression worsened in the summer!! It's nice to know I'm not alone. I'm fair-skinned and don't tolerate heat well at all. My depression is always worse in July/August and, living in Missouri, it does get pretty hot and humid. Thanks for this thread!
~ Lynne
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It is great to have people like me!
>
> All my depreeive attacks started at end of spring-begining of summer...however my depressions were of the classical type with early morning awakening,black thoughts...etc.
> In addion,when autumn breeze starts I start to feel much better!
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 29, 2004, at 6:51:23
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D., posted by MB on July 1, 2003, at 1:05:04
> I read the symptoms of Summer SAD, and they don't match what I'm experiencing. I'm experienceing more of a fatigued, oversleeping, overeating, apathetic depression. Supposedly Summer SAD is usually made up of symptoms such as loss of appetite, insomnia, agitation, anxiety, etc.
>
> Maybe I don't have "true" Summer SAD. Maybe, since I *am* sensitive to sunlight and heat, I tend to spend more time indoors during the Summer, exacerbating my atypical depression.You're quite right that there tends to be an "opposite ends of the spectrum" symptom list that differentiates between winter and summer SAD, but the correlation is not 100%. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to fit yourself into a symptom list. Treat according to symptoms would be the rule of thumb, not treat according to seasonality.
Interesting, considering the incidence, but there is very little research into summer SAD. I found one good article (which discusses treatment strategies), and I copied a reference from that article, as a Pubmed abstract, below.
Best,
Larhttp://www.aafp.org/afp/980315ap/saeed.html
J Affect Disord. 1991 Dec;23(4):173-83.
Contrasts between symptoms of summer depression and winter depression.
Wehr TA, Giesen HA, Schulz PM, Anderson JL, Joseph-Vanderpool JR, Kelly K, Kasper S, Rosenthal NE.
Clinical Psychobiology Branch, NIMH, Bethesda, MD 20892.
Epidemiological studies and studies of clinical populations suggest that there are primarily two opposite patterns of seasonally recurring depressions: summer depression and winter depression. In addition, there is preliminary evidence that the two seasonal types of depression may have opposite types of vegetative symptoms. In the present study, we prospectively monitored symptoms of depression in 30 patients with recurrent summer depression and 30 sex-matched patients with recurrent winter depression and compared the symptom profiles of the two groups. Consistent with predictions based on the earlier reports, we found that winter depressives were more likely to have atypical vegetative symptoms, with increased appetite, carbohydrate craving, weight gain and hypersomnia, and that summer depressives were more likely to have endogenous vegetative symptoms, with decreased appetite and insomnia. A cluster analysis performed on the patients' symptom profiles without reference to season of occurrence of their episodes separated 78% of the summer depressives and winter depressives from each other on the basis of their symptoms (chi 2 = 19.29, P less than 0.001).
Posted by Kila on August 1, 2004, at 22:49:53
In reply to Re: Interested in learning about summer S.A.D. » Kila, posted by leor on July 25, 2004, at 11:53:21
Hi Leor, Thanks for the info. Maybe it is a general temperature sensitivity but I have to say it NEVER gets to the point of feeling cold to me here in Fla. Our coldest winter days are lows in the 30's, highs in the 50's and I am in my glory with those temps. I run outside everyday when it is cool and I'll pass people bundled up like it's the north pole and I'm in my usual running shorts and tank top. Of your suggestions, the first three I already do. I'll try vitamin D as well. Since hearing of the possibility that the length of the days might be a factor, I've considered that and think it very well could be a big part of it. It seems like the sun virtually never goes away for 6 months of the year. I'm sure the heat would bother me less if the sun would come up later and go down earlier. I just need a LITTLE more time without that blazing orb on my head. I virtually do not go outside at all (made easier since I work at home) and I just keep it as cold and dark as possible inside. People think I'm a freak but what can I do. It also seems that my three children are just like me in having an intense aversion to the heat. On the one hand I'd like to think that relocating would make me "normal" but again it would be next to impossible to leave all my family and move away. Just finding other people like myself has already made me feel better. That and the fact that I am already halfway through another summer now! Thanks.
> Kila, I don’t wish to shatter your hopes but I’m not so sure that moving to a different climate would necessarily alleviate your symptoms. Much of the research I’ve come across has indicated that S.A.D. involves a general temperature sensitivity - whether to heat or cold. If you were living in Canada, as I do, you’d have to endure six months of cold annually - a situation every bit as difficult as the one you currently face in sunny Florida. Like most disabilities I think that S.A.D. is best treated through adaptation. For their possible usefulness I’ll mention some of my coping-mechanisms:
> ( 1 ) Always were polarizing sun glasses outdoors
> ( 2 ) Drink large quantities of water (to keep the body cool)
> ( 3 ) Wear loss, comfortable, well ventilated close to minimize perspiration
>
> ( 4 ) Take Vitamin D or Rocalcetrol (it’s active form). Vitamin D help regulates the bodies’ absorption of sunlight and also has a mildly antidepressant affect.
>
> Good Luck!
>
This is the end of the thread.
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