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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Angel Girl on May 11, 2003, at 18:25:53
Hi everyone,
I'm not sure if any of you recognize me or not. I used to come here a few months ago. Anyways, I've been diagnosed with BP-II, Complex PTSD and possibly BPD.
I'm currently only taking Depakote 1500mg/day. I thought I had my depression under control but lately that has not been the case. Back when I was here before I was taking 367.5mg/day of Effexor XR but I'm completely off of it now and have been for a several months. When I told my dr that I was getting depressed again, he gave me a rx for Zyprexa but I never filled it. I've been determined to get through this with as little drugs as possible but I don't seem to be able to put off the inevitable of having to go back on something for the depression which is worsening. My dr recently gave me a rx for Seroquel but I haven't started taking it yet.
I decided tonight to look on the net for Seroquel for side effects and was surprised to find that it is an anti-psychotic and not an anti-depressant. I also recall that when I was going to get the rx for Zyprexa filled at the drug store, they informed that it was an anti-psychotic as well. I chose not to fill that rx.
Why would my dr prescribe me an anti-psychotic instead of an anti-depressant like Effexor XR, as I was on before, which by the way worked VERY well for me, barring the side effects I didn't like.
I'd be anxious and grateful to get some opinions.
Thanks,
Angel Girl
Posted by justyourlaugh on May 11, 2003, at 19:36:38
In reply to Seroquel, Zyprexa, Effexor XR, which one?, posted by Angel Girl on May 11, 2003, at 18:25:53
perhaps the seoquel is for sleep...because without it we would all be mad...
i no longer take it...(once and awhile ill take 200mg to knock out)..
some use it as a mood stablizer...and as an ad?
it works wonders for some....
..it helped me sleep through a real horrid time..
best of luck..
post for an update ...
j
Posted by Janelle on May 11, 2003, at 20:24:53
In reply to Seroquel, Zyprexa, Effexor XR, which one?, posted by Angel Girl on May 11, 2003, at 18:25:53
EffexorXR is indeed an a-d, no doubt about that one. Depending on dosage, it can act on serotonin, norepinephrine and/or dopamine. The higher you go, the more receptors it hits.
You are correct that technically (officially) both Zyprexa and Seroquel ARE anti-psychotics. However, I've read somewhere that Zyprexa can help with depression (it has mild action on serotonin). As for Seroquel, I can only repeat what has already been said here - it is great for sleep (I take 100mg/night, then fall asleep and stay asleep). I have NOT heard anything about Seroquel having any action on depression.
Word of warning re Zyprexa: You can gain A LOT and I mean A REEEEEAL LOT of weight on it, like 30 to 40 pounds, and become diabetic.
If I were you I'd ask the pdoc about this - why is he or she suggesting a-p's when you seem to want and need an a-d?
Good luck 2 U.
Posted by Angel Girl on May 11, 2003, at 22:28:24
In reply to Re: Seroquel, Zyprexa, Effexor XR, which one? » Angel Girl, posted by Janelle on May 11, 2003, at 20:24:53
> EffexorXR is indeed an a-d, no doubt about that one. Depending on dosage, it can act on serotonin, norepinephrine and/or dopamine. The higher you go, the more receptors it hits.
>
> You are correct that technically (officially) both Zyprexa and Seroquel ARE anti-psychotics. However, I've read somewhere that Zyprexa can help with depression (it has mild action on serotonin). As for Seroquel, I can only repeat what has already been said here - it is great for sleep (I take 100mg/night, then fall asleep and stay asleep). I have NOT heard anything about Seroquel having any action on depression.
>
> Word of warning re Zyprexa: You can gain A LOT and I mean A REEEEEAL LOT of weight on it, like 30 to 40 pounds, and become diabetic.
>
> If I were you I'd ask the pdoc about this - why is he or she suggesting a-p's when you seem to want and need an a-d?
>
> Good luck 2 U.
justyourlaugh and janelleThanks for your replies. My dr first prescribed Zyprexa when I was very anxious due to some stresses in my life that I was not handling very well a few weeks ago. I was also and still am dealing with insomnia. He told me I should stop taking my Imovane and only use the Zyprexa. When I learned from the pharmacist that Zyprexa was an anti-psychotic, I chose to not fill the rx. When I went back to the dr and confronted him on his choice of med, in hindsight he was glad I never filled it because as you mentioned Janelle, you can tend to put on weight and I'm having a REAL issue in this area, partially due to side effects of other meds. I asked him why he prescribed an anti-psychotic and he told me it was because of my anxiety. But since I didn't get that rx filled, he gave me a new one for Seroquel, which I haven't started using yet. I'm no longer feeling the stress I was before but I am defintely getting more and more depressed and of course, I'm still not sleeping. I'm now on Zaleplon in hopes that it will help me sleep. But since reading what I have on the net and here about the Seroquel, I'm wondering if it would be better for me to go back on the Effexor XR for the depression since that worked for me before???
Angel Girl
Posted by Jack Smith on May 13, 2003, at 13:22:37
In reply to Re: Seroquel, Zyprexa, Effexor XR, which one?, posted by Angel Girl on May 11, 2003, at 22:28:24
> Thanks for your replies. My dr first prescribed Zyprexa when I was very anxious due to some stresses in my life that I was not handling very well a few weeks ago. I was also and still am dealing with insomnia.
Now, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD A PDOC GIVE YOU ZYPREXA INSTEAD OF A BENZO?????
> When I went back to the dr and confronted him on his choice of med, in hindsight he was glad I never filled it
Gee, thanks doc! Your instincts are better than his years of training and experience!
> I'm wondering if it would be better for me to go back on the Effexor XR for the depression since that worked for me before???That sounds like a good idea. If you are having trouble with anxiety, I would ask for a benzo--klonopin or xanax. Much less risky and way fewer side effects than anti-psychotics. Also, I would get a new doc.
JACK
Posted by Angel Girl on May 13, 2003, at 16:33:58
In reply to Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!! » Angel Girl, posted by Jack Smith on May 13, 2003, at 13:22:37
> > Thanks for your replies. My dr first prescribed Zyprexa when I was very anxious due to some stresses in my life that I was not handling very well a few weeks ago. I was also and still am dealing with insomnia.
>
> Now, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD A PDOC GIVE YOU ZYPREXA INSTEAD OF A BENZO?????
>
> > When I went back to the dr and confronted him on his choice of med, in hindsight he was glad I never filled it
>
> Gee, thanks doc! Your instincts are better than his years of training and experience!
>
>
> > I'm wondering if it would be better for me to go back on the Effexor XR for the depression since that worked for me before???
>
> That sounds like a good idea. If you are having trouble with anxiety, I would ask for a benzo--klonopin or xanax. Much less risky and way fewer side effects than anti-psychotics. Also, I would get a new doc.
>
> JACK
JackI have absolutely no idea why he would prescribe Zyprexa instead of Xanax. I told him that I was already taking Xanax that I had left over from before. He seems to not like Xanax for some reason, to which he gave me at the time and I don't remember.
The reason he was glad I didn't have the rx filled was because I'm also dealing with trying to get some weight off and he said that the Zyprexa would only compound that issue.
I'm not dealing with anxiety anymore. The situations that caused it have since passed. I'm now dealing with my depression coming back but I have yet to discuss it with him. He's now on vacation.
Angel Girl
Posted by Viridis on May 15, 2003, at 2:09:01
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!! - jack, posted by Angel Girl on May 13, 2003, at 16:33:58
Many doctors are afraid of Xanax because (supposedly) it's "addictive". My pdoc told me that if I have to change doctors, I should be very careful about asking for Xanax, because unfortunately, some doctors would label that as "drug-seeking behavior". Too bad, because it's a great med for those with real anxiety disorders.
Klonopin might be a safer bet, if it works for you -- with its longer half-life, it's considered safer by many doctors. I've found it very effective for anxiety and depression (although I take Xanax too, as needed).
Posted by Angel Girl on May 15, 2003, at 13:16:45
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!! - jack » Angel Girl, posted by Viridis on May 15, 2003, at 2:09:01
It irritates me when changing doctors that they change medications that are working. I understand that Xanax is an addictive drug but since I hadn't taken it in several months and only started taking it when under new stress, that should tell him that I am NOT addicted. I go by the philosphy that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Xanax was working, no need for changes. I'll keep Klonopin in mind. Do you know if it makes you gain weight though??? Thanks for the info.
Angel Girl
> Many doctors are afraid of Xanax because (supposedly) it's "addictive". My pdoc told me that if I have to change doctors, I should be very careful about asking for Xanax, because unfortunately, some doctors would label that as "drug-seeking behavior". Too bad, because it's a great med for those with real anxiety disorders.
>
> Klonopin might be a safer bet, if it works for you -- with its longer half-life, it's considered safer by many doctors. I've found it very effective for anxiety and depression (although I take Xanax too, as needed).
Posted by Jack Smith on May 15, 2003, at 13:33:43
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!! - jack » Angel Girl, posted by Viridis on May 15, 2003, at 2:09:01
> Many doctors are afraid of Xanax because (supposedly) it's "addictive". My pdoc told me that if I have to change doctor
I know it's so ridiculous. The post that prompted me to say that was about a doctor who insisted on prescribing an atypical antipsychotic instead of xanax. Which one is more safe?
Worst case scenario with xanax: you get addicted and have to wean off carefully.
Worst case scenario with Zyprexa: Tardive Dyskinesia and PERMANENT movement disorder.
Posted by Viridis on May 16, 2003, at 1:06:00
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!! » Viridis, posted by Angel Girl on May 15, 2003, at 13:16:45
I'm not aware of any evidence that either Xanax or Klonopin cause weight gain. Both are great drugs (for me, anyway). As for "addiction", this term has a very specific meaning in medicine, involving escalated dosing, craving, loss of control, and use of the drug despite negative consequences. Anxiety sufferers don't generally experience any of this with benzos, although some recreational drug users may.
Medical dependency is common with benzos (and most ADs, as well as blood pressure meds, insulin, etc.). This means that discontinuation must be done gradually, just as with all sorts of meds for many conditions.
The "addictive" label is silly, and extensive studies don't support this for people who need benzos. "Benzo addiction" is mostly propaganda which, sadly, many doctors buy into.
Posted by Stacey fu on May 16, 2003, at 2:45:06
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!!, posted by Viridis on May 16, 2003, at 1:06:00
> The "addictive" label is silly, and extensive studies don't support this for people who need benzos. "Benzo addiction" is mostly propaganda which, sadly, many doctors buy into.
Unfortunately, benzo addiction is very real, even among Xanax users who "need" it. I understand your frustration with the difficulty to obtain a medication that's controlled since it helps you. But don't underestimate the severity of Xanax addiction. It is very serious and uncomfortable to deal with. The agonizing withdrawals can last for weeks, and is not to be taken lightly. I was in detox for 16 days in a psych ward to get off of Xanax. I still felt withdrawals for another week after leaving the hospital. Even users who suffer from considerable anxiety are prone to abusing their meds. For me, my pdoc wouldn't increase the dose. So I did. You don't know you're addicted until it's too late. Many people buy into the stereotype that you have to be on the curb with a needle in your arm to be an addict. (are you kidding me?) and believe me, Xanax is much more widely abused than you'd like to think. So take care of yourself, and good luck!
Posted by Angel Girl on May 16, 2003, at 3:18:45
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!!, posted by Stacey fu on May 16, 2003, at 2:45:06
Well in no way was I ever addicted to Xanax. I have a substantial amount of it that sits in my medicine cabinet untouched. I only started taking if for a very short period of time when I encountered new stresses in my life that have since past. At that point, I stopped taking it cold turkey. My dosage was only .25mg as required and that's how I took it. I'm fully aware that people can addicted to prescription drugs but that certainly was not the case with me and there was no need for him to want to prescribe something new when the Xanax was working just fine, well sorta!!! Anyways, as I said, the stress is gone and the Xanax is back in the medicine cabinet until I feel a need to use it again.
Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.
Angel Girl
Posted by Viridis on May 17, 2003, at 3:49:20
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!!, posted by Stacey fu on May 16, 2003, at 2:45:06
Hi Stacey,
I'm sorry to hear about all that you went through. I don't doubt that addiction to benzos like Xanax occurs; I was trying to make a distinction between addiction and dependency. I'm sure some anxiety sufferers do abuse benzos, but most don't. In your case, it sounds like you increased the dose beyond what the doctor prescribed and ran into problems, and that probably would constitute addiction. Regarding the withdrawal, did you taper off gradually or stop suddenly? If it was abrupt, I'm not surprised you had problems -- after using benzos for a while, you have to get off them very slowly. My pdoc was very emphatic about this, even with the relatively low doses I take.
I'm no expert on benzo withdrawal, and I recognize that these drugs have the potential to cause problems. I've seen it in a couple of people I know, who just kept using more and more, getting multiple prescriptions etc. But most anxiety sufferers who benefit from benzos don't increase the dose once the appropriate amount is identified (as I mentioned in a previous post, using more just makes me sleepy). And, most people who go off them have little difficulty if it's done gradually, although the anxiety may return.
I hate to see such a useful class of meds demonized just because they aren't right for some people. There are lots of horror stories on this board about withdrawal from ADs like Paxil, Effexor, etc., yet many people benefit greatly from these drugs. Similarly, my brother is allergic to penicillin, but that doesn't rule out its use in everyone.
I'm not trying to attack you, and given your terrible experience, I can understand your concerns. But benzos have been life-changing meds for many people, some of whom take them for long periods with no problems. They're an important option for a lot of us, and I hate to see them relegated to the status of "dangerous' and "addictive" without consideration for individual cases.
Posted by fanni on May 17, 2003, at 13:57:10
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!!, posted by Viridis on May 16, 2003, at 1:06:00
ive been on xanax for 5 years,what i mean is ive been prescribed it for 5 years,i take it whenever i feel i need it,no way would i do it every day cos for sure id say youd become physically addicted to it.but im not a drooling addicted mess on it,even though ive been told about a million times how its addictive.or mangled in the head.its definitley a better option than some hardcore shite like zyprexa,yeah,that can cause parkinsonians and horrible stuff like that.how a shrink can be like,oh this is better for you than xanax,is beyond me.they havent got a clue.id like to see them on the meds themselves THEN come back and say it to us.
Posted by Angel Girl on May 17, 2003, at 16:20:04
In reply to Re: Ridiculous, Irresponsible PDOC!!!, posted by Stacey fu on May 16, 2003, at 2:45:06
Stacey
I'm sorry to hear that you went through a rough time withdrawing from Xanax. I was only taking it on a 'as required' basis and not all the time so I didn't have any problems or side effects. There were several times that I don't know what I would've done without it.
Good luck,
Angel Girl
> > The "addictive" label is silly, and extensive studies don't support this for people who need benzos. "Benzo addiction" is mostly propaganda which, sadly, many doctors buy into.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, benzo addiction is very real, even among Xanax users who "need" it. I understand your frustration with the difficulty to obtain a medication that's controlled since it helps you. But don't underestimate the severity of Xanax addiction. It is very serious and uncomfortable to deal with. The agonizing withdrawals can last for weeks, and is not to be taken lightly. I was in detox for 16 days in a psych ward to get off of Xanax. I still felt withdrawals for another week after leaving the hospital. Even users who suffer from considerable anxiety are prone to abusing their meds. For me, my pdoc wouldn't increase the dose. So I did. You don't know you're addicted until it's too late. Many people buy into the stereotype that you have to be on the curb with a needle in your arm to be an addict. (are you kidding me?) and believe me, Xanax is much more widely abused than you'd like to think. So take care of yourself, and good luck!
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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