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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by denise528 on May 8, 2003, at 12:25:26
Hi Pfinstegg,
After ringing around I finally got the PM at Neurocrine to give me some information regarding the CRF Antagonist trials although Neurocrine are no longer doing them she said as follows:-
I found out some info from a colleague at GSK. The CRF1 Antagonist patient
trials will not occur in the near future. Here is her recommendation for
searching the GSK website for trials with other GSK drugs:"...the next patient trials with any CRF1 backup will not be projected to
inititate until,....best case scenario......at least sometime in 2005. If
she'd be interested in looking at our web site, which would point her
possibly to other compound trials she may be interested in, she could check
out www.gsk.com under R&D. There are several links to different trials
under this.Right now we have clinical trials ongoing in depression for Lamictal,
Wellbutrin SR, Paxil CR, and several new compounds in development, however,
I'm limited as to how much info I can share on these beyond what is
currently on the website."I can't understand it, why are they still doing trials for lamictal, wellbutrin, Paxil which have been around for years and yet they're leaving the CRF antagonists until 2005.
Denise
Posted by jrbecker on May 9, 2003, at 11:10:39
In reply to To Pfinstegg - CRF Antagonists, posted by denise528 on May 8, 2003, at 12:25:26
Have you called all of the other companies involved in CRF-1 pipeline research: Pfizer, Janssen(neurocrine's partner), GSK, Bristol-Meyer's Squibb?
> Hi Pfinstegg,
>
> After ringing around I finally got the PM at Neurocrine to give me some information regarding the CRF Antagonist trials although Neurocrine are no longer doing them she said as follows:-
>
> I found out some info from a colleague at GSK. The CRF1 Antagonist patient
> trials will not occur in the near future. Here is her recommendation for
> searching the GSK website for trials with other GSK drugs:
>
> "...the next patient trials with any CRF1 backup will not be projected to
> inititate until,....best case scenario......at least sometime in 2005. If
> she'd be interested in looking at our web site, which would point her
> possibly to other compound trials she may be interested in, she could check
> out www.gsk.com under R&D. There are several links to different trials
> under this.
>
> Right now we have clinical trials ongoing in depression for Lamictal,
> Wellbutrin SR, Paxil CR, and several new compounds in development, however,
> I'm limited as to how much info I can share on these beyond what is
> currently on the website."
>
> I can't understand it, why are they still doing trials for lamictal, wellbutrin, Paxil which have been around for years and yet they're leaving the CRF antagonists until 2005.
>
>
> Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 9, 2003, at 11:55:53
In reply to Re: CRF Antagonists, posted by jrbecker on May 9, 2003, at 11:10:39
That's very disappointing to hear what Neurocrine and GSK spokesmen said just a year after describing themselves as committed to being world leaders in CRF research and drug development. It makes one wonder how decisive financial considerations must be in all these undertakings. My personal bias is that the tremendous financial investment in SSRI-type drugs may influence these decisions, and act to slow the development of novel classes of AD's.
However, enough is known about the promise and safety of CRF receptor antagonists that I feel confident that research and development will go on somewhere- perhaps not in the US, though. I thought jrbecker had a good suggestion abut other sources to check.
Any progress on the TMS front?
Pfinstegg
Posted by jrbecker on May 9, 2003, at 12:44:40
In reply to Re: CRF Antagonists, posted by jrbecker on May 9, 2003, at 11:10:39
I should have also added Organon to that list.
> Have you called all of the other companies involved in CRF-1 pipeline research: Pfizer, Janssen(neurocrine's partner), GSK, Bristol-Meyer's Squibb?
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Pfinstegg,
> >
> > After ringing around I finally got the PM at Neurocrine to give me some information regarding the CRF Antagonist trials although Neurocrine are no longer doing them she said as follows:-
> >
> > I found out some info from a colleague at GSK. The CRF1 Antagonist patient
> > trials will not occur in the near future. Here is her recommendation for
> > searching the GSK website for trials with other GSK drugs:
> >
> > "...the next patient trials with any CRF1 backup will not be projected to
> > inititate until,....best case scenario......at least sometime in 2005. If
> > she'd be interested in looking at our web site, which would point her
> > possibly to other compound trials she may be interested in, she could check
> > out www.gsk.com under R&D. There are several links to different trials
> > under this.
> >
> > Right now we have clinical trials ongoing in depression for Lamictal,
> > Wellbutrin SR, Paxil CR, and several new compounds in development, however,
> > I'm limited as to how much info I can share on these beyond what is
> > currently on the website."
> >
> > I can't understand it, why are they still doing trials for lamictal, wellbutrin, Paxil which have been around for years and yet they're leaving the CRF antagonists until 2005.
> >
> >
> > Denise
>
>
Posted by denise528 on May 9, 2003, at 13:04:27
In reply to Re: CRF Antagonists, posted by jrbecker on May 9, 2003, at 12:44:40
Hi,
No I haven't tried the other Companies you have listed but I'm going to try them. I hope it won't be as difficult as it was trying to get information from Glaxo Smith Kline or Neurocline, you just get through to the main operator and they can't seem to tell you anything other than what's already on the internet.
Thanks for the information.
Denise
Posted by denise528 on May 9, 2003, at 13:13:44
In reply to Re: CRF Antagonists- Denise, posted by Pfinstegg on May 9, 2003, at 11:55:53
Hi Pfinstegg,
I still can't seem to find anyone in the UK who does rTMS apart from one practitioner in Birmingham and he's off sick with a stroke so I'm not sure when he'll be back.
Dr Hutto was kind enough to ring me back but he took me by suprise as to be honest I didn't expect him to ring me, so I wastn't really prepared with any questions. He did answer the questions I asked of him though, basically that it's 46% successful and that the fact that I've had a seizure shouldn't stop me from having the treatment. I've emailed him on the Relay Health site and he's been getting back to me. Who knows if I can't get it in England I might travel to the States to try it, although, sometimes I think I'm wasting my time but then what else would I do with it apart from feel depressed. I just wonder if I'm on a wild goose chase.
The return flight to Atlanta would only cost me about £255 so that's not too bad, he's going to let me know how much the treatment costs.
I just wish i could get some other peoples experiences of it (not that yours is irrelevant) it would just be nice to get some more personal feedback about it. Also some of the studies I've read concluded that rTMS was no more effective than Sham treatment so which studies do you go by?
I hope your still feeling well, can I ask you what drugs you had tried before rTMS and which ones helped?
Kind Regards
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 9, 2003, at 22:44:41
In reply to Re: To Pfinstegg, posted by denise528 on May 9, 2003, at 13:13:44
Hi Denise..I'm glad to hear that Dr. Hutto responded. From what I know, TMS, like ECT, acts to calm down the overactivity of the HPA axis and increases blood flow to the left frontal and hippocampal regions. Because of these effects, sometimes AD's will work better afterwards.
As to my own experience, I had partial responses to Prozac, Paxil, Zyprexa and Wellbutrin. However, I never felt well on any of them, and was always functioning at 25-30% of what I knew I had once been. The TMS gave me a sense of being really in remission. Dr Hutto advised me that I should follow up with AD's, and that I might have to return for "booster" sessions -they give those twice a day for 2-3 days when they are needed.
I did not go back on a major AD, but do take tianeptine, fish oil, synthroid and Cytomel. I am also having psychotherapy to try to deal better with the original abuse issues. So far, everything has gone so well- I really feel that I have a complete remission- lots of energy, confidence and interest in things outside of myself. This is from someone who a year ago was taking six hours to climb out of bed and brush her teeth!
Having the TMS has given me a much more optimistic outlook- I know I can return for boosters if I need to, and that having it will help any AD that I take be more effective. Before, I just felt so helpless and pessimistic.
It is a long way to Atlanta, although the flight cost does seem very reasonable. Dr. Hutto's offices are north of Atlanta, about an hour's drive from the airport, so I rented a car to drive from the airport and then from my residence motel to his office. Dr. Hutto's office gave me the names of several motels which were a 5 or 10 minute drive from his office. As I had three weeks of treatment, having a kitchen in the motel was very helpful. I don't know whether driving on the right would be a problem for you or not, but I think it would also be possible to use taxis, provided you arranged for them in advance by phoning.
I was extremely impressed with Dr. Hutto's extensive experience with ECT (20 years) and TMS (2 years). He knows exactly how to give the TMS, and spends a lot of time finding out at just which point he wants to give it- then you spend the rest of your visit with a large indelible black mark on your scalp!
I am familiar, also, with the studies idicating that TMS is no better than sham, but from what I have read, the people working with it at NIH and Yale have a much more positive view. One thing that often happens- and did with me- is that one converts from a DST non-suppressor to a suppressor- the best possible indication one could have that the HPA axis is no longer in overdrive.
I hope you will keep in touch with me about what you decide. I think that if you see Dr. Hutto, you are seeing the very best; even if you don't get into a complete remission, the TMS should bring your brain more towards normal functoning- and this could make all the difference in your ability to benefit from AD's and psychotherapy.
All the best in your search.
Pfinstegg
Posted by denise528 on May 27, 2003, at 13:25:31
In reply to Re: To Pfinstegg- TMS- Denise, posted by Pfinstegg on May 9, 2003, at 22:44:41
Hi Pfinstegg,
I hope you're still doing well. Do you think maybe you would have come out of your depression on your own without the rTMS. I've always found that when an AD works, things tend to look different, it's like my visual perception changes and everything looks more 3 dimensional and in focus, it's hard to explain really, did you get any effects like this from the rTMS? Can you tell me if there are any reasonably priced motels and how much they are, in the vicinity of Dr Hutto's offices?
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 16:43:18
In reply to Re: To Pfinstegg- TMS, posted by denise528 on May 27, 2003, at 13:25:31
Hi Denise.. I am convinced that the TMS made a big difference for me- not just because of the subjective sense of well-being which I have most of the time now, but because of the before-and -after Beck Depression ratings which I have been doing since last October. I was steadily in the "severe" category, with suicidal thoughts, until the TMS. In the four months since then, I am either in the "normal" or "slightly depressed" categories- but have never had the feelings of worthlessness and of wanting to end my life which were so prominent and horrible before. I know that I could relapse at any time- but I'll get myself right down to Atlanta if I do!
Dr. Hutto's office sends out a list of motels, hotels and residence motels witin a few minutes drive of the medical center. I stayed at a residence motel, which cost about $125 per week (I made the reservation in two 10-day segments, which allowed me to get the lowest rate). The room had a TV, microwave, cook-top and separate bath. It was pretty basic, but OK. There was a supermarket across the street. When I first came, I was too depressed to cook, but as I got better (after about a week), the cooking facilities came in handy.
All the very best, Denise!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Jack Smith on May 27, 2003, at 16:51:49
In reply to Re: To Pfinstegg- TMS » denise528, posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 16:43:18
Pfinstegg or Denise,
Do either of you have Dr. Hutto's email address, I have a friend interested in rTMS and he has some questions about whether it is available in the LA area.
JACK
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 21:16:28
In reply to Dr Hutto--Pfinstegg or Denise, posted by Jack Smith on May 27, 2003, at 16:51:49
Hi Jack.. the best way to communicate with Dr. Hutto is by FAX: 678-209-5300. He has always answered promptly by return FAX, and will, I would think, give any information he has about TMS in Los Angeles. I originally called Emory University to ask about joining a TMS study. At that time (last fall), they weren't accepting any new patients, but they recommended Dr. Hutto and one other doctor just outside of Chicago. Dr. Hutto has years of experience with ECT, and several with TMS- he knows just how to give it, and is very careful with placements and intensities- you do want someone who has this knowledge, as the TMS does not spread through the brain the way ECT does. So, in order to get the maximal chance of it helping, not just any doctor will do when it comes to TMS! Once it is FDA-approved and more doctors are well-trained in it, this won't be such a big consideration.
Pfinstegg
Posted by denise528 on May 28, 2003, at 13:12:45
In reply to Dr Hutto--Pfinstegg or Denise, posted by Jack Smith on May 27, 2003, at 16:51:49
Hi,
If you don't have access to a fax machine you can e-mail him by going to http://www.relayhealth.com. You need to register yourself and then you can request a free online consultation with him.
Denise
Posted by denise528 on May 28, 2003, at 13:21:02
In reply to Re: To Pfinstegg- TMS » denise528, posted by Pfinstegg on May 27, 2003, at 16:43:18
Hi Pfinstegg,
Well you've almost convinced me, you sound pretty sure that the rTMS worked for you so I probably will give it a try, I've nothing to lose except time and money and I don't do much else with either of those things. The accomodations sounds pretty cheap and as you say Dr Hutto sounds like he's got quite a lot of experience.
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 29, 2003, at 16:46:34
In reply to Re: To Pfinstegg- TMS, posted by denise528 on May 28, 2003, at 13:21:02
It most certainly helped me- not just because I feel better, but also because I changed from being a DST non-suppressor to a suppressor, and have so much lower Beck Depression Scale scores. I do think, for most people, including me, it may not be a permanent "fix"; so far, I feel well, but I would definitely go back for booster sessions if I relapse.
If you do decide to go ahead with it, I do wish you the very best, Denise.
Pfinstegg
This is the end of the thread.
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