![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on May 6, 2003, at 20:59:06
Day 8 washout. Feeling a lot of derealization now. Very bad. Took Val 30mins ago. Think more D/R attributed to paradoxical sleep rebound in some way, or maybe prior Xanax leaving me??
What do you think. With Val never had a prob with D/R exacerbated after large doses.
It has to be done, a contigency plan.
Anafranil Saturday. If it freaks me out, I intend to go to Parnate - how long after ONLY 1 dose of Anafranil. My Dr. not sure but maybe 2 days.
he fear is coming back, but i Know that this the time where I must keep my head up.
Sorry for short comments but in big rush. Any suggestions please.
Anafranil last time made derealization worse. But I took 2 doses of Luvox the prior dau. I went from 50mg Luvox to 25 Anafranli, 7 and a half hours lkater. Do you think as I do that The derealization was caused by 5-HT overload (ie Luvox anafranil so close together).
Once I reached .6 Lithium levels, shortly after derealization worse. See the correlation - 5-HT overload from Nardil/Lithium and before Luvox/Anafranil.
Really , Really need thoughts.
Thanks friends,
Ace.
Posted by ace on May 6, 2003, at 22:46:41
In reply to Need help NOW! Contingency plan, fear etc., posted by ace on May 6, 2003, at 20:59:06
Posted by bookgurl99 on May 7, 2003, at 0:22:51
In reply to Need help NOW! Contingency plan, fear etc., posted by ace on May 6, 2003, at 20:59:06
Ace,
I don't have any ideas about why this is happening, but I think you should definitely try some benzos (without valerian) to help sleep.
Last year I went through a washout and had throuble sleeping for about a month. It was horrible; I feel for what you're going through right now. The only thing that helped was benzos. Valerian couldn't touch it.
My only other suggestion is distraction. I know you're trying to figure out the mechanisms, which might make the experience make more sense somehow. But we can't control the feelings (both physical and emotional) connected to a washout even with the information.
I think distraction from solving the problem -- watch some good tv, read something good if you can focus, listen to music, take a bath, etc. -- are the most healing things you can do right now. If you hop on the net and try to find info, you may end up more confused and anxious and insomniactic, back at step one.
An image that's useful is to think of yourself as a surfer. They have ups and downs that they can't control, but if they relax into them, they find themselves riding the wave. You're kind of riding the wave right now.
good luck, hope you get some sleep,
books
Posted by Snoozy on May 7, 2003, at 0:39:45
In reply to Need help NOW! Contingency plan, fear etc., posted by ace on May 6, 2003, at 20:59:06
Hi ace -
I don't have any experience with Nardil or Parnate, but I think bookgurl had good suggestions.
How about another toasted Xanax sandwich? Please share your recipe! I've got Xanax and I've got bread. Anything else needed? :)
Good luck and try to relax!
> Day 8 washout. Feeling a lot of derealization now. Very bad. Took Val 30mins ago. Think more D/R attributed to paradoxical sleep rebound in some way, or maybe prior Xanax leaving me??
>
> What do you think. With Val never had a prob with D/R exacerbated after large doses.
>
> It has to be done, a contigency plan.
>
> Anafranil Saturday. If it freaks me out, I intend to go to Parnate - how long after ONLY 1 dose of Anafranil. My Dr. not sure but maybe 2 days.
>
> he fear is coming back, but i Know that this the time where I must keep my head up.
>
> Sorry for short comments but in big rush. Any suggestions please.
>
> Anafranil last time made derealization worse. But I took 2 doses of Luvox the prior dau. I went from 50mg Luvox to 25 Anafranli, 7 and a half hours lkater. Do you think as I do that The derealization was caused by 5-HT overload (ie Luvox anafranil so close together).
>
> Once I reached .6 Lithium levels, shortly after derealization worse. See the correlation - 5-HT overload from Nardil/Lithium and before Luvox/Anafranil.
>
> Really , Really need thoughts.
>
> Thanks friends,
>
> Ace.
Posted by leeran on May 7, 2003, at 2:30:13
In reply to Need help NOW! Contingency plan, fear etc., posted by ace on May 6, 2003, at 20:59:06
Hi Ace,
I hope this doesn't sound too mundane, considering everything you're going through, but when I used to do yoga all the time I found that the breathing (primarily nose breathing and deep into the diaphraghm) really helped me get to a calmer place in stressful situations.
Unfortunately, now that I don't do yoga as much it doesn't work quite as well - but I still use what I haven't "losed" (lost) and it can help somewhat.
I'm on my way to bed (midnight here) but here's a quickie link:
http://www.crescentlife.com/wellness/yoga_breathing_exercise.htm
I've read that shallow breathing (what I call my "stressed out breathing") can be a contributor to panic attacks.
Here's another link:
http://67.120.246.148/heal/articles/breathing/mgwhite/anxiety_breathing.asp
This type of breathing has helped me during medical office procedures (like having a little cyst removed from my eyelid), some panic attacks, anxiety before going to sleep, etc.
Again, if you're a yoga instructor or already do this stuff (or think it's a bunch of bunk) I'm sorry to impose! I've read a few of your posts (but not all of them) so I'm not completely up-to-date on what's going on.
In any case, I hope you feel better soon!
L.
Posted by jaby on May 7, 2003, at 11:23:52
In reply to Need help NOW! Contingency plan, fear etc., posted by ace on May 6, 2003, at 20:59:06
I've had dr/dp problems for about 5 years now with my bpII. It's constant for the most part and tough to deal with. I found a little help with lithium and provigil. I had it disappear, along with all my other problems with lamictal, but it only lasted a few days. Try lamictal if you haven't. It is touted as one of the best dr/dp meds out there. Serotonin moduating drugs make my problems much worse.
Posted by lawrence S. on May 7, 2003, at 19:39:09
In reply to Re: Need help NOW! Contingency plan, fear etc., posted by jaby on May 7, 2003, at 11:23:52
Ritalin helped me shortly after stoping nardil. It reduced the D/R. It was all I needed for the withdrawl (with a liitle benzo).
Posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 0:09:42
In reply to Need help NOW! Contingency plan, fear etc., posted by ace on May 6, 2003, at 20:59:06
(Bookgirl, i think when Ace said "Val" he meant Valium and not Valerian. But that's alright.)
Ace, i would probably just continue taking Benzos to help you get through the w/drawal until the Anafranil kicks in. Also, i wouldn't give up on the Anafranil after just a couple days. i know it might be freaking hard, and possibly too hard since youre in school and all, but it might just be a waste of time if you don't try it for at least a few weeks or so.
Also, about the 5-HT overload... isn't lithium supposed to decrease 5-HT transmission to some extent, or am i wrong?
Good luck with it all.
Posted by ace on May 8, 2003, at 23:19:52
In reply to Re:, posted by Questionmark on May 8, 2003, at 0:09:42
> (Bookgirl, i think when Ace said "Val" he meant Valium and not Valerian. But that's alright.)
>
> Ace, i would probably just continue taking Benzos to help you get through the w/drawal until the Anafranil kicks in. Also, i wouldn't give up on the Anafranil after just a couple days. i know it might be freaking hard, and possibly too hard since youre in school and all, but it might just be a waste of time if you don't try it for at least a few weeks or so.
> Also, about the 5-HT overload... isn't lithium supposed to decrease 5-HT transmission to some extent, or am i wrong?Lithium Carbonate causes and unequicocal increase in 5-HT levels. This is why it can have a synergestic effect with other 5-HT drugs and is a big favourite in resistent depression. The mechanism behind this is not understood, as it is in the SSRIs for example. It is clear that excess 5-HT does cause anxiety, and if you have derealization probably that too.
Thanks for the advice man. With the benzos I've used every day, usually only 1/day, but I am concerned that on withdrawal they can themselves cause and increase in derealization symptomatology.
> Good luck with it all.
Much appreciated. I start Anafranil tommorrow!
Ace.
Posted by ace on May 9, 2003, at 1:30:38
In reply to Re: Need help NOW! Contingency plan, fear etc. ?ace, posted by leeran on May 7, 2003, at 2:30:13
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.