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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Donny on March 12, 2003, at 12:02:25
Is TD something to worry about if taking Zyprexa? I assume the risk is dose relatied.
Posted by xjs7 on March 13, 2003, at 2:09:07
In reply to Zyprexa TD: Real Concern?, posted by Donny on March 12, 2003, at 12:02:25
Yes--everyone taking antipsychotics should be aware of the possibility that they might get tardive dyskinesia. I have read about this topic over the past couple years and I have seen doctors and studies that place the risk of TD on the newer medications at 0.2% to 7% per year on the drugs. I think the higher figure was on a study done on people who had used the older drugs in the past. So, there is a definite risk, but it is probably not very high. I believe it is also dose-related.
We will see more studies on this in the future--it will be informative to see what the real rates of TD of the new drugs is over more years of exposure. I suggest you be very careful with the APs, but if you think your problems are severe enough to warrant AP therapy, they probably are. I hope this helps.
xjs7
Posted by JohnL on March 13, 2003, at 5:20:42
In reply to Zyprexa TD: Real Concern?, posted by Donny on March 12, 2003, at 12:02:25
I don't think of Zyprexa as an antipsychotic. Instead, I look at it this way...
Remeron is a serotonin and norepinephrine antagonist. Other drugs can be described similarly. Zyprexa, for example, is a serotonin and dopamine antagonist. I prefer to think of drugs in terms of what they do rather than in terms of what they "supposedly" treat.
The risk of TD exists. The likelihood of it happening is low. Keep in mind that serious complications and death occur from simple aspirin. All drugs have risks. But if the drug significantly improves your life, then the risk/benefit profile should be acceptable.
I have been taking 5mg Zyprexa for about 2 years now without any problems. Fingers cross. :-)
> Is TD something to worry about if taking Zyprexa? I assume the risk is dose relatied.
Posted by zeugma on March 14, 2003, at 20:42:50
In reply to Re: Zyprexa TD: Real Concern?, posted by xjs7 on March 13, 2003, at 2:09:07
Here's a study that claims to identify the relative risk of EPS with particular AP's including atypicals http://www.hplc1.com/lien/neurol.html
This study may not be the most recent, but it seems interesting. According to the authors, Abilify may be the only AP besides clozapine that does not carry a risk of TD.
Posted by xjs7 on March 14, 2003, at 21:28:09
In reply to molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypicals, posted by zeugma on March 14, 2003, at 20:42:50
Hi Zeugma,
Thanks for posting that link--it is very interesting. I take one of the drugs that have a higher incidence of EPS (Geodon) and, sure enough, I get moderate EPS from it. Fortunately, we have Cogentin and related drugs for this problem.
I think that TD is more worrisome than EPS--it can be irreversable, whereas EPS is usually just uncomfortable. If Abilify does not cause TD, then I would expect that doctors will move all their patients to it. Abilify is also great in that it does not cause massive weight gain like clozapine.
xjs7
Posted by stjames on March 15, 2003, at 2:06:13
In reply to Re: molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypic » zeugma, posted by xjs7 on March 14, 2003, at 21:28:09
Fortunately, we have Cogentin and related drugs for this problem.
They just mask the problem & do not treat it.
Posted by xjs7 on March 15, 2003, at 3:20:33
In reply to Re: molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypic, posted by stjames on March 15, 2003, at 2:06:13
> Fortunately, we have Cogentin and related drugs for this problem.
>
> They just mask the problem & do not treat it.The same is true about antipsychotics. I have not been cured of psychosis; rather, my medication masks the symptoms so I can live a better life. So, I have to settle for masking. It is better than nothing.
xjs7
Posted by cybercafe on March 15, 2003, at 19:18:08
In reply to Re: molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypic » zeugma, posted by xjs7 on March 14, 2003, at 21:28:09
> Hi Zeugma,
>
> Thanks for posting that link--it is very interesting. I take one of the drugs that have a higher incidence of EPS (Geodon) and, sure enough, I get moderate EPS from it. Fortunately, we have Cogentin and related drugs for this problem.
>
> I think that TD is more worrisome than EPS--it can be irreversable, whereas EPS is usually just uncomfortable. If Abilify does not cause TD, then I would expect that doctors will move all their patients to it. Abilify is also great in that it does not cause massive weight gain like clozapine.
>
> xjs7geodon gives you EPS? is this only at high doses or at the lowest ones too?
Posted by stjames on March 15, 2003, at 19:29:23
In reply to Re: molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypic » stjames, posted by xjs7 on March 15, 2003, at 3:20:33
> The same is true about antipsychotics. I have not been cured of psychosis; rather, my medication masks the symptoms so I can live a better life. So, I have to settle for masking. It is better than nothing.
>
> xjs7Ah, I missed you were being treated for psychosis.
To me, AP's are resaonable treatments for that condition.
Posted by xjs7 on March 15, 2003, at 20:28:02
In reply to Re: molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypic, posted by cybercafe on March 15, 2003, at 19:18:08
Yes, Geodon gives me EPS. I take 120 mg/day, which is maybe a little higher than average but certainly not unreasonably high. The EPS seem to be dose-related: at 20 and 40 mg/day, I got very mild EPS, but at 80 and 120 mg/day the EPS got worse. 2 mg/day Cogentin eliminates the muscle stiffness and tremor entirely.
xjs7
Posted by cybercafe on March 15, 2003, at 20:51:39
In reply to Re: molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypic » cybercafe, posted by xjs7 on March 15, 2003, at 20:28:02
> Yes, Geodon gives me EPS. I take 120 mg/day, which is maybe a little higher than average but certainly not unreasonably high. The EPS seem to be dose-related: at 20 and 40 mg/day, I got very mild EPS, but at 80 and 120 mg/day the EPS got worse. 2 mg/day Cogentin eliminates the muscle stiffness and tremor entirely.
>
> xjs7hmmm... how did you fair on other atypicals?
Posted by xjs7 on March 15, 2003, at 23:04:23
In reply to Re: molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypic, posted by cybercafe on March 15, 2003, at 20:51:39
I haven't tried any of the other atypical antipsychotics. Geodon works on my psychosis, and that's the most important thing. I have been on Geodon almost since it was released in the US. I have no idea if I would get EPS from the other drugs.
xjs7
Posted by Jeroen on March 12, 2005, at 7:24:02
In reply to Re: molecular modeling and TD risk of newer atypic » cybercafe, posted by xjs7 on March 15, 2003, at 20:28:02
gEODON gave me tardive dyskinesia on low dose for 3 weeks that i took it
on my both eyesim on zyprexa atm, to combat this problem
This is the end of the thread.
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