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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bampf on November 30, 2002, at 13:50:17
You know how many heroin users receive methadone in order to get off heroin? Well, is there any sound pharmacological treatment for speed addiction?
Posted by utopizen on November 30, 2002, at 15:16:33
In reply to rx. for speed addiction?, posted by bampf on November 30, 2002, at 13:50:17
> You know how many heroin users receive methadone in order to get off heroin? Well, is there any sound pharmacological treatment for speed addiction?
>
Try Desoxyn
Posted by utopizen on November 30, 2002, at 15:18:30
In reply to rx. for speed addiction?, posted by bampf on November 30, 2002, at 13:50:17
> You know how many heroin users receive methadone in order to get off heroin? Well, is there any sound pharmacological treatment for speed addiction?
>>Sorry, that was a bad joke- just take a benzo, it'll mellow you out enough to avoid shakes, chills, whatever, teeth clinching, or whatever speed addiction gives you.
It's a downer, which is as you know, the antidote for when you don't want to remain up... pretty basic stuff, only instead of taking the downer to come down, take it to stay down.
Posted by linkadge on November 30, 2002, at 16:04:29
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by utopizen on November 30, 2002, at 15:18:30
Fish oil can will raise dopamine leves in the limbic system, some studies are trying it
for amphetamine addiction. It is effective
for major depression.Linkadge
Posted by utopizen on December 1, 2002, at 0:22:12
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by linkadge on November 30, 2002, at 16:04:29
Treatment of methamphetamine use disorders: an update.
Rawson R, Gonzales R, Brethen P
UCLA Integrated Substance Abuse Programs (ISAP), 11050 Santa Monica Boulevard, Suite 100, 90025, Los Angeles, CA, USA
JOURNAL OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT.
2002 Sep; 23(2):145.
Methamphetamine (MA) is a major public health and criminal justice problem in much of the Western and Midwestern US, and its use seems to be increasing east of the Mississippi River. MA use can produce significant psychiatric and medical consequences, including psychosis, dependence, overdose, and death. Cognitive behavioral therapy and contingency management are among the most promising approaches for treatment of MA abuse and dependence. A multisite study evaluating the Matrix Model of outpatient treatment will soon be completed to provide data on this manualized approach. An ambitious program of pharmacotherapy development research is currently being sponsored by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) in geographic areas significantly affected by MA use. The development of treatments for MA-related problems is particularly critical for a number of user groups including MA users who experience persistent psychosis, pregnant women and women with children, gay and bisexual men, and MA users involved in the criminal justice system.
MEDLINE(r) ID: 22209678 PUBMED ID: 12220612 [Status: In Process]
Posted by utopizen on December 1, 2002, at 0:33:13
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by linkadge on November 30, 2002, at 16:04:29
Many states and health insurance providers will pay for the cost of rehabilitation services, which would typically include Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (talk therapy).
Typically, long-term abuse of a drug is associated with a person's coping skills in areas beyond simply evading drug abuse. This is frequently coupled with living a difficult life.
While CBT can not make living problems go away, it can help you to learn how to cope with life's problems in a way that allows you to think of coping strategies not including drug abuse.
And as far as meth addiction goes, it's a bad drug, but you must remind yourself of who uses it and why. It's not the drug the media makes it out to be. It doesn't randomly knock on people's doors and insullfate itself up people's noses without their consent. People choose to take the drug, knowing it has a high addiction rate.
It is not a drug one enters into after filling out a pro/cons listing...
On a related note, I have tried Desoxyn in doses higher than prescribed, received euphoria, and did not repeat this later on. In fact, I still have 10 pills in my dresser, enough to get very, very high. But I choose not to take them, waiting to use them for finals as prescribed instead. I've never had depression, lead a promising future, and have a good family.
Obviously the fact that Desoxyn is impossible to snort or inject may have something to do with its lesser abuse potential, but it's still pure meth, and it hasn't sold my soul to the devil like CNN said it would.
So don't worry, you can overcome this drug, you don't need to feel like you can't until scientists invent the next methadone. It's not as bad as heroin, as bad as it is. It really isn't. There's so many people who did it in the 60's who haven't touched it in decades, including at least one on this board alone.
Posted by utopizen on December 1, 2002, at 0:38:05
In reply to Treatment of methamphetamine use disorders, posted by utopizen on December 1, 2002, at 0:33:13
Baclofen decreases methamphetamine self-administration in rats.
Ranaldi R, Poeggel K
Department of Psychology, Queens College, City University of New York, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing 11367, USA.
NEUROREPORT.
2002 Jul 2; 13(9):1107-10.
In the present study we tested the hypothesis that baclofen, a GABA-B receptor agonist, attenuates methamphetamine self-administration. Fifteen rats were trained to self-administer i.v. injections of methamphetamine (0, 0.0625, 0.125 and 0.25 mg/kg/injection) on a progressive ratio schedule of reinforcement, and then were tested under the influence of two doses of baclofen (2.5 or 5.0 mg/kg, i.p.). Baclofen significantly reduced break points at all doses of methamphetamine, producing a dose-orderly shift of the methamphetamine dose-response function to the right. These data suggest that pretreatment with baclofen reduces methamphetamine reward. These data are consistent with other studies showing impairment of drug reward after pretreatment with baclofen and add further support to the idea that GABA-B agonists may be useful in the treatment of drug addiction.
MEDLINE(r) ID: 22146721 PUBMED ID: 12151750
Posted by linkadge on December 1, 2002, at 10:49:25
In reply to Baclofen decreases methamphetamine self-administra, posted by utopizen on December 1, 2002, at 0:38:05
I read somewhere that Neurotonin helped
with cocaine withdrawl, it may reduce
anxiety and help improve sleep.If you feel you had a mental illness
prior to starting, then you may be
able to improve your condition with
proper treatment of that, but most
doctors want to get you relativly clean
before prescribing a drug for depression
etc.
As far as antidepressants go, I'd say
Wellbutrin is probably closest to an
amphetamine in its effects - it increases
brain dopamine and norepiephrine as well,
like amphetamine.Good Luck,
P.S. take my fish oil thing seriously,
it has been shown to increase brain dopamine
levels considerably.
Posted by oracle on December 2, 2002, at 23:23:35
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by utopizen on November 30, 2002, at 15:18:30
If you are doing speed every day you cannot just stop cold. You must step down, over time. Even with this, possible psychotic reactions can happen and need to be treated with AP's. Use of benzos really depends as adding an addictive med while trying to quit another is not best for some people. It really depends on the specific person.
Significant to crushing depression almost always results from quiting speed, even with a good taper, Once off speed it can take 1-2 months for any energy to come back. AD's and supportaive thearpy are needed to get thru this fragile time when one feel like hell and is most likely to resume speed to feel better. Nutrition and supplements really help here.If one has been a regular user of speed (at levels of abuse) for some time it can take a year of supportive meds to get back to normal.
One also needs to ask if the speed use was self medication, and assess the condition and best treatments. Sometimes stims are the best treatment and it is possible to use them again
in a non abuse setting without problems, but this varies between people.
Posted by utopizen on December 3, 2002, at 1:24:32
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by oracle on December 2, 2002, at 23:23:35
Oracle,
Continuing the use of speed is definitely not a wise piece of advice, even as well-intentioned as you were to say it.
It doesn't matter if he gets seizures, chills, the shakes, etc. It's healthier than to continue the use of speed, and risk possible jail time as well (aren't the new meth laws mandating 20 year minimum sentences?
I'd take two weeks off from life, get three warm blankets, and just lay in bed for that time. Don't drive or ride a bike, because any withdrawl may include a seizure. If you want to make it easier on yourself, try Neurontin or some Xanax for these two weeks. And take an antidepressant for a year, it'll help to stabalize you into normal feelings again.
Sitting in bed with the chills or risking 20 years in a jail cell by revisiting a dealer... let me think about that one, shall I?
Posted by utopizen on December 3, 2002, at 1:30:11
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by oracle on December 2, 2002, at 23:23:35
If you truly think you have ADD, and want to responsibly use stimulants. do not tell your doctor you abused methamphetamine. I know it sounds bad, but doctors are legally required to not prescribe stimulants to people with a history of drug abuse. About the only exception is alcohol abuse history.
It's the law for doctors. Some may ignore it, but most don't, and it's always a thing hovering over a doctor's worries if he gets an audit. So be nice to your doctor either way, and don't even put him in the position of trying to help you by giving stims after knowing you abused meth, because this will get him in trouble during an audit.
Also, you probably weren't self-medicating unless you specifically used meth to elevate your productivity, and this benefit was more desirable to you than meth's euphoria. I have ADD, and I don't pop my stims just to walk down the street, that's crazy- I just use them when I'm going to study or go to class. I don't tell myself, "Geez, I sure better increase my dopamine receptors, or I could end up turning to abusive narcotics later in life."
=)
Posted by Geezer on December 3, 2002, at 9:40:17
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by utopizen on December 3, 2002, at 1:24:32
> Oracle,
>
> Continuing the use of speed is definitely not a wise piece of advice, even as well-intentioned as you were to say it.
>
> It doesn't matter if he gets seizures, chills, the shakes, etc. It's healthier than to continue the use of speed, and risk possible jail time as well (aren't the new meth laws mandating 20 year minimum sentences?
>
> I'd take two weeks off from life, get three warm blankets, and just lay in bed for that time. Don't drive or ride a bike, because any withdrawl may include a seizure. If you want to make it easier on yourself, try Neurontin or some Xanax for these two weeks. And take an antidepressant for a year, it'll help to stabalize you into normal feelings again.
>
> Sitting in bed with the chills or risking 20 years in a jail cell by revisiting a dealer... let me think about that one, shall I?Now here is a generous helping of the truth! I avoided the seizures and the jail time but took the rest of it full blast. Well said....your following comment is good advice as well. Takes a lot of self honesty to survive the experience.
Geezer
Posted by oracle on December 3, 2002, at 16:28:31
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by utopizen on December 3, 2002, at 1:24:32
> Oracle,
>
> Continuing the use of speed is definitely not a wise piece of advice, even as well-intentioned as you were to say it.I have been thru speed addiction and this was the advice of the addiction doc I saw. It worked for me.
Posted by oracle on December 3, 2002, at 16:30:18
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by utopizen on December 3, 2002, at 1:30:11
> If you truly think you have ADD, and want to responsibly use stimulants. do not tell your doctor you abused methamphetamine. I know it sounds bad, but doctors are legally required to not prescribe stimulants to people with a history of drug abuse. About the only exception is alcohol abuse history.
For me I did was honest and the docs indicated this was not a problem.
Posted by oracle on December 3, 2002, at 16:37:53
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by utopizen on December 3, 2002, at 1:24:32
>
> It doesn't matter if he gets seizures, chills, the shakes, etc. It's healthier than to continue the use of speed, and risk possible jail time as well (aren't the new meth laws mandating 20 year minimum sentences?You have not been thru serious speed use have you ? Chill and shakes are not opiod w/d. Sudden w/d from high dose speed has even more serious
problems. A CNS that has been run wide open for months/years can go into shock and shut down. Far worse than a convulsion. A warm blanket is no good. We are NOT talking about feeling bad here we are talking about a life or death situation. Well meaning people do not understand this, unless they have been here.I was a speed freak for 3 years, banging speed, 15 year ago. A suscessful dexox, with redustion was pretty easy and I have taken dex with no problems for 10yes, sence being a speed freak.
Posted by utopizen on December 3, 2002, at 18:23:49
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by oracle on December 3, 2002, at 16:37:53
Okay, I've only gone through Vikoden, but I still think if he's going to stabalize himself and he's concerned about not dying from an arythmia, he should check into a clinic. Dilantin is well-documented for use in heart arthymia.
Posted by oracle on December 3, 2002, at 19:01:19
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by utopizen on December 3, 2002, at 18:23:49
> Okay, I've only gone through Vikoden, but I still think if he's going to stabalize himself and he's concerned about not dying from an arythmia, he should check into a clinic. Dilantin is well-documented for use in heart arthymia.
Hmmm,
What I am talking about is shock and shutdown of the CNS, not just heart problems, though those are possible. I do not think you grasp the danger here. I understand them because I died once for ~2 mins.
Sometimes well meaning advice given out here could kill someone.
I do agree that the risk of getting thrown in jail
is an issue but telling someone the just go cold turkey is an issue, too, as this can cause death.Key here is to do all of this under a docs orders.
This is not the place for do it yourself. I was not clear about that but I always intend folks to work with their docs.
Posted by Cisco on December 5, 2002, at 10:44:07
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction? » utopizen, posted by Geezer on December 3, 2002, at 9:40:17
This may help for Stimulant Withdrawals:
PRECURSOR LOADING
A strategy for boosting neurotransmitter levels.
Strategies for safe brain boosting culled from several sources:This is a popular technique for boosting levels of brain norepinephrine ,
dopamine, and serotonin. This technique can help with mild depression,
insomnia, lack of self confidence and particularly withdrawal or abuse of
stimulants. The precursors of these brain chemicals are the amino acids
L-Tyrosine or L-Phenylalanine...(norepinephrine and dopamine)...and
L-Tryptophan.. (serotonin)...Recent research indicates that low levels of
these brain chemicals results in low self confidence, increased appetite,
and depression. The crash and mood swings experienced by stimulant addicts
are also, to a great extent caused by depletion of these
neurotransmitters. The idea is to eat two separate amino acid/vitamin
formulas (the vitamins are necessary co-factors to aid the body's
conversion of the amino acids to neurotransmitters) two formulas are
necessary because the two amino acids compete with each other for the same
macromolecule for transport accross the blood brain barrier.IN THE MORNING:
Take 1 to 3 grams of L-Tyrosine(best) or L-Phenylalanine.
..cofactors necessary for optimum conversion to catecholamines
Folic Acid, Vitamin C, Rubidium (opt.), Vitamin B6, copper, DMAE(opt.)
This should be taken with a light morning meal and perhaps a combination
of antioxidants since catecholamines naturally produce oxidative stressors
(Vitamins E and A, selenium.) Caffeine also increases catecholamine
synthesis.IN THE EVENING:
Take 1 to 3 grams of L-Tryptophan
along with the cofactors Vitamin B6,folic acid,niacin,Vitamin C (can
usually be supplied by a "Stress B+C" multivitamin Carbohydrate meals
greatly increase conversion of tryptophan into serotonin. This aids restful
sleep,and the next day,the increased tryptamine levels assist in setting
circadian rhythms and have been correlated with improved sence of well
being and libido.MEMORY BOOSTING FORMULA
Vitamin B12,in large amounts,has been shown to improve memory and lucid
dreaming by increasing RNA synthesis.(try 1000 ug.just before bed) Also
large amounts of Choline Chloride, L- Glutamine and Lechithin have shown
to improve memory, also try DMAE bitartrate and Brewers YeastHope this information proves useful!!!
Cisco
Posted by freudiangarterbelt on December 7, 2002, at 9:24:51
In reply to rx. for speed addiction?, posted by bampf on November 30, 2002, at 13:50:17
Drink a gallon of coffee everyday and take naps.
Posted by Geezer on December 7, 2002, at 9:51:12
In reply to Re: rx. for speed addiction?, posted by freudiangarterbelt on December 7, 2002, at 9:24:51
> Drink a gallon of coffee everyday and take naps.
Probably a bad idea on this one......people end up dead from speed abuse.
This is the end of the thread.
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